Great New Warzone Idea - DOTA like WZ!

[Mirialol]

Want something that's more skill based than gear based? Something that requires very good teamplay, strategy, and individual skill?

 

Hey, just right now a great idea for a new warzone came across my mind, ESPECIALLY for rated warzone.

 

 

I think DOTA like warzone would be great for competitive scene. In addition, DOTA like warzone would be great idea that fits well with star wars! (republic vs empire. sentinel vs scourge. etc)

 

Possible theme: Played on alderaan like terrain map. Also can add some storyline or behind the battle (something about house organa vs house thul).

 

This warzone should be really similar to DOTA:

 

1. There would be three lanes, turrets along each lane, inhibitor, and trash mobs (like droids) spawn. Goal is for entire team to simultaneously click on some datacron inside the enemy base. The datacron is also protected by 2 turrets in the enemy base.

 

2. Destroying all turrets in a lane and killing inhibitor would spawn strong elite mob, until inhibitor respawns (like the big super creeps in league of legends)

 

3. If you die, you respawn on a timer. At beginning of the game you respawn more quickly (~5 second). As game gets longer, respawn timer increases significantly (max ~60 second).

 

4. To simulate 'leveling', killing enemy team players or giving assist would give the player nice stat boost in health and damage ~5% for kill 3% for assist that lasts for rest of the game. (Numbers are not final. Up to bioware to decide)

 

This would give incentives for players to play well to avoid dying, and slowly give advantage to team that scores kills. (but not too much advantage which would eliminate the chances of making great fun comeback).

 

In a typical length game, at end game player would have between +50% to +200% stat boost from hero kills depending on how well/badly he played.

 

5. Killing blow on the trash mob droids and turret kills also provide very small amount of (0.5%?) stat increase.

 

In a typical length game, at end game player would have 100~200 droid skills that would net 50%~100% stat boost from these.

 

6. Neutral creeps of various strength and Champion Mob.

 

Champion Mob takes whole team around mid end game to kill and provide nice 1 minute buff to entire team (equivalent to warzone zerker buff), as well as pretty good stat boost (10%).

 

 

 

Additionally:

 

Format: 5v5

Why? To give a different taste to players than typical 8v8 warzones. Plus, DOTA based games are all 5v5's .

 

Requirement: Level 50s only

Why? Easier to balance (no level 10s vs 49s!). Gives low lvl players incentive to reach 50 to play this awesome WZ.

 

Also, make the queues separate for this DOTA warzone, and other warzones. (I think all warzones should have separate queues, in addition to a random queue)

 

I think this WZ would be a great idea that would promote both solo (ganking, defending a lane) and team play! (team battle, pushing a lane as a team) Any other suggestion? Post here :]

 

This WZ may take quite some development to make. But this should be much more entertaining and competitive than any battlegrounds in WoW and other warzones we have.

 

If bioware is going to add new WZ's like they said, I don't want em to be something like another civil war or huttball that will become boring and repetetive after ~10 games. Keep adding same WZ's over and over may make Star Wars appear like another WoW clone.

 

I think this type of warzone would remain entertaining for players for a LONG TIME (MOBA's have been popular for YEARS). Thus investing into developing this one WZ may be more attractive for bioware financially, over building 5~10+ WZ's in that period of time which will all eventually end up becoming dull.

 

PLUS side to bioware: If this becomes popular for competetive scene, it may attract gamers from games of OTHER genres into subscribing!

 

I've enjoyed both PvP's in MMO's and MOBA styled games. Creating a hybrid between the two has always been my brainchild and my imagination. It is something other MMO companies have not thought of doing, and I think it would be great if bioware becomes a pioneer in this area.

 

Unlike most forms of PvP, THIS warzone will be far more skill-based than gear based!

 

Even if you're undergeared, if you can outplay, outsmart, and kill a better geared opponent few times in the early game, you can become stronger and have a big advantage.

 

This is why I believe this wz would be more skill based than gear based.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[walterskinner]

*** is DOTA?

[Seductivpancakes]

Moba games are that way --->

[Mirialol]

(deleted and added it to the quote in the original post) Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Mirialol]

Moba games are that way --->

 

I know, but wouldnt it be nice to give current lackluster star wars pvp a new taste?

 

It is something other MMO companies haven't tried for PvP, I think DOTA styled MMO PvP would be a great idea

[DerangedOne]

I would have loved this idea bur you wrote DOTA like 25 times.

[dwtsweeb]

This was suggested a long time ago as a fix for Ilum back when it was turret trading for quests, but it went unnoticed and not acknowledged by devs despite the amount of time put into theorycrafting ways to make it work.

[Mirialol]

I would have loved this idea bur you wrote DOTA like 25 times.

 

i used ctrl+f and i only see word dota used 6 times in my original post

[Mirialol]

This was suggested a long time ago as a fix for Ilum back when it was turret trading for quests, but it went unnoticed and not acknowledged by devs despite the amount of time put into theorycrafting ways to make it work.

 

yes, but this would be a great idea for controlled, instanced pvp like warzones

 

 

not a good idea for world pvp where there would be uneven numbers, which is the reason why devs didnt acknowledge it

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[deltaminus]

As a one time avid DotA player, I like this idea a lot.

 

+1

[sabresandiego]

I never played DOTA but it sounds fun.

[Baalazar]

Interesting idea but i'd rather see some open world pvp and less instanced WZs.

[Mirialol]

Interesting idea but i'd rather see some open world pvp and less instanced WZs.

 

youre going very off topic here

 

theres no way to 'implement' open world pvp.

 

it is up to the player on the servers to decide whether to participate or not, theres very little bioware can do besides adding more incentives to do world pvp

 

What bioware should really do about world pvp is:

 

1. to reduce ilum population (by reducing number of kill requirements in daily, reducing valor gains)

 

2. add more cross faction pve daily quest area on every planet (every planet should have a level 50 area).

 

3. provide pretty decent valor gains for killing players in those daily quest areas, etc.

 

 

 

Any direct attempt bioware makes to 'add world pvp' to game will result in nothing but laggy zerg fest like ilum. Stop asking bioware to "add" world pvp. Best they can do is to provide incentive.

 

 

 

but instanced PvP is something bioware can DIRECTLY add into and improve in the game

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Baalazar]

theres no way to 'implement' open world pvp.

 

 

it is up to the player on the servers to decide whether to participate or not, theres very little bioware can do besides adding more incentives to do world pvp

 

(reducing ilum population, adding more daily pve quest area on every planet, providing pretty nice valor gains for killing players in those daily quest areas, etc)

 

 

 

but instanced PvP is something bioware can DIRECTLY add into and improve in the game

 

Allowing access to enemy worlds could open up world pvp. That is something bioware has not done yet.

[Mirialol]

Allowing access to enemy worlds could open up world pvp. That is something bioware has not done yet.

 

my post was bit slow, but take a look at points 1, 2, 3.

 

 

that would pretty much allow world pvp to happen in every planet, like all players wish for

 

 

yes and

 

 

4. opening up enemy worlds (adding shared faction daily area)

 

 

 

all these would allow players to participate in world pvp while doing their dailies, killing any enemy they see.

 

 

I just made a separate forum thread about it here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2864845

 

 

 

 

now back on topic about this WZ

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Baalazar]

my post was bit slow, but take a look at points 1, 2, 3.

 

 

that would pretty much allow world pvp to happen in every planet, like all players wish for

 

 

yes and

 

 

4. opening up enemy worlds (adding shared faction daily area)

 

 

 

all these would allow players to participate in world pvp while doing their dailies, killing any enemy they see.

 

 

I just made a separate forum thread about it here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

now back on topic about this WZ

 

Whats really hurting pvp in general is only have two factions as well. One side is majorly over populated. If in an expansion they could add a 3rd faction it would help the status quo alot.

 

Then again maybe i'm asking for too much out of a themepark mmo.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Baalazar

[Mirialol]

Whats really hurting pvp in general is only have two factions as well. One side is majorly over populated. If in an expansion they could add a 3rd faction it would help the status quo alot.

 

Then again maybe i'm asking for too much out of a themepark mmo.

 

If you like world pvp, please support this thread

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2864845

[LanceUpercutt]

it actually would be a cool idea, shame it would never be implemented Edited February 15, 2012 by LanceUpercutt

[JohnSixteen]

Hey, it's not a new idea when you steal it from somewhere else!

[Mirialol]

it actually would be a cool idea, shame it would never be implemented

 

if bioware doesnt implement it, i guess ill suggest it to another mmo company that would to make profit off of it. hopefully even hiring either me or one of my friends to be a developer

[GeckoOBac]

Well, It surely would be something different. I'd like to see something made in this spirit, but not so close to DOTA, for several reasons...

 

The core idea is good, but it presents several challenges... Now, I didn't think really hard about this, so no solutions ATM (though i'm thinking while writing...), but "leveling", in example, poses a problem in that % buffs would then only enlarge starting gear differences. Dota works because all heroes are made with the same stats (yeah I know they are not identical, but they are balanced around the same level, with strengths and weaknesses), while a pvp match would start with intrinsic differences in starting stats (though a bracket system would partially mitigate this).

 

I also know for a fact that avid pvp players DISLIKE killing NPCs. WAR pvp (and, daoc too, up to a point) is an example: even though you mostly had to kill 1 main npc at a time to capture keep, cities, and the like, people said that it was too much, that they wanted PvP, not PvE. A DOTA like warzone would exacerbate this problem. I wouldn't mind, I know dota is very competitive and probably a kind of pvp that requires much more skill than most MMORPG pvp, but people will still complain... So making it absolutely optional is a necessity. This brings in another problem: optional things mean some will complain that there is no reason to do that WZ and it is wasted development time. If value is added others will complain that it now is required of them to play it, that development time should be spent for other things, proper pvp, yadda yadda.

 

So for this to be succesfull it must be included in the normal PVP rewards and thus HAS to have the same appeal as normal warzones (or open pvp) do.

 

I don't really have ideas here... If you eliminate leveling and npcs from dota you basically get a RUSH like pvp mode, somewhat like voidstar, with perhaps a final boss instead of a console to activate. But I'd really like for something useful to come out of this discussion, battlegrounds tend to get repetitive... Anything new will make them last longer.

 

Just to spur some conversation... Objective Based Team Deathmatch. Discuss.

[Mirialol]

Well, It surely would be something different. I'd like to see something made in this spirit, but not so close to DOTA, for several reasons...

 

The core idea is good, but it presents several challenges... Now, I didn't think really hard about this, so no solutions ATM (though i'm thinking while writing...), but "leveling", in example, poses a problem in that % buffs would then only enlarge starting gear differences. Dota works because all heroes are made with the same stats (yeah I know they are not identical, but they are balanced around the same level, with strengths and weaknesses), while a pvp match would start with intrinsic differences in starting stats (though a bracket system would partially mitigate this).

 

I also know for a fact that avid pvp players DISLIKE killing NPCs. WAR pvp (and, daoc too, up to a point) is an example: even though you mostly had to kill 1 main npc at a time to capture keep, cities, and the like, people said that it was too much, that they wanted PvP, not PvE. A DOTA like warzone would exacerbate this problem. I wouldn't mind, I know dota is very competitive and probably a kind of pvp that requires much more skill than most MMORPG pvp, but people will still complain... So making it absolutely optional is a necessity. This brings in another problem: optional things mean some will complain that there is no reason to do that WZ and it is wasted development time. If value is added others will complain that it now is required of them to play it, that development time should be spent for other things, proper pvp, yadda yadda.

 

So for this to be succesfull it must be included in the normal PVP rewards and thus HAS to have the same appeal as normal warzones (or open pvp) do.

 

I don't really have ideas here... If you eliminate leveling and npcs from dota you basically get a RUSH like pvp mode, somewhat like voidstar, with perhaps a final boss instead of a console to activate. But I'd really like for something useful to come out of this discussion, battlegrounds tend to get repetitive... Anything new will make them last longer.

 

Just to spur some conversation... Objective Based Team Deathmatch. Discuss.

 

 

very good point on killing pve mobs

 

 

if they want to make killing / farming those droids optional, then they can remove stat buff gains from killing creeps, and increase stat buff gains from getting players

Edited February 15, 2012 by Mirialol

[Furyofwar]

I would not be interested in playing this type of a warzone at all.. Edited February 15, 2012 by Furyofwar

[GeckoOBac]

very good point on killing pve mobs

 

 

if they want to make killing / farming those droids optional, then they can remove stat buff gains from killing creeps, and increase stat buff gains from getting players

 

Yes, that's why I made that comment about objective based team deathmatch, since that's what it would become... But classes here aren't balanced around 1 vs 1, so it would limit a lot the class choices in forming groups for this instance. Also the stat buff problem remains... a % stat would favor too much gear differences, and a flat buff would become more and more meaningless the better the base stats become, and gear will be able to compensate for that as well, up to a point.

[Mirialol]

Yes, that's why I made that comment about objective based team deathmatch, since that's what it would become... But classes here aren't balanced around 1 vs 1, so it would limit a lot the class choices in forming groups for this instance. Also the stat buff problem remains... a % stat would favor too much gear differences, and a flat buff would become more and more meaningless the better the base stats become, and gear will be able to compensate for that as well, up to a point.

 

Yea but even if you're undergeared, if you can outplay, outsmart, and kill a better geared opponent few times early game, you can become stronger and have a big advantage.

 

 

This is why I believe this wz would be more skill based than gear based.