ElementalCrisis Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. Edited February 15, 2012 by ElementalCrisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kutulhu Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You mean there are inconsistencies in the Star Wars world? Stop the presses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecordler Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 what about his statement is false, the jedi religion is over 20,000 years old, if that's not ancient i don't know what is. As far as most people were concerned, the force is esoteric and not widely seen outside of conflicts with the jedi order, by the clone wars the jedi hadn't even seen or fought a sith in nearly 300 years, or fought any major wars. The jedi order itself was barely able to support the clone wars and were spread thin. Most people never even see the jedi in action within their lifetime, and imagine that one captain complaining to vader, he never served in the clone army, he's what 36 at most, which makes him 16 when the jedi were busting their powers all over the galaxy, which means he more than likely never saw one before that, unless of course he was on the wrong side of the law. Some people read too deep into what is said. Faith in that ancient jedi religion..... well was he supposed to say, Faith in that 20,000 year old, wiped out religion of 20 years... thats a mouthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSide Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 what about his statement is false, the jedi religion is over 20,000 years old, if that's not ancient i don't know what is. As far as most people were concerned, the force is esoteric and not widely seen outside of conflicts with the jedi order, by the clone wars the jedi hadn't even seen or fought a sith in nearly 300 years, or fought any major wars. The jedi order itself was barely able to support the clone wars and were spread thin. Most people never even see the jedi in action within their lifetime, and imagine that one captain complaining to vader, he never served in the clone army, he's what 36 at most, which makes him 16 when the jedi were busting their powers all over the galaxy, which means he more than likely never saw one before that, unless of course he was on the wrong side of the law. Some people read too deep into what is said. Faith in that ancient jedi religion..... well was he supposed to say, Faith in that 20,000 year old, wiped out religion of 20 years... thats a mouthful. On top of that, that officer was just bein' a typical Imperial bureaucratic wamprat tryin' to make himself a rancor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argolisk Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 It may be an Imperial mindset too. Even Tarkin himself told Vader that he was "all that's left of their religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) It may be an Imperial mindset too. They of course wouldn't completely outlaw it, not as long as the Emperor himself was a Sith Lord, but given the Rule of Two, and the destruction of the Jedi, to most people it would seem like the Jedi/Sith was an extinct religion. Edited February 16, 2012 by Noviru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 there is alot of inconsistencies from the prequels to the OT. People try to explain them but really they are just holes in the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 In the 20 years between films, the Emperor launches a huge propaganda war against Jedi, making them out to be a bunch of lying scumbags trying to run the galaxy behind the scenes, and the Force as one big lie they used to do it. 20 years of anyone in Imperial space even talking about the Force suddenly disappearing, and then anyone who asks about what happened to them disappearing, and so on, made the Empire as a whole start thinking of the Force as a joke pretty soon. Funnily enough, this is why folk in the Rebellion say 'may the Force be with you'. It's a rebel slogan because of the Empire's ultra-harsh stance on the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. From the Moff's perspective, all the Jedi were exterminated by a bunch of clones. And it's likewise clear that Palpatine, Vader, Luke, et. al. were significantly stronger practitioners of the Force than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladedDingo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 what about his statement is false, the jedi religion is over 20,000 years old, if that's not ancient i don't know what is. As far as most people were concerned, the force is esoteric and not widely seen outside of conflicts with the jedi order, by the clone wars the jedi hadn't even seen or fought a sith in nearly 300 years, or fought any major wars. The jedi order itself was barely able to support the clone wars and were spread thin. Most people never even see the jedi in action within their lifetime, and imagine that one captain complaining to vader, he never served in the clone army, he's what 36 at most, which makes him 16 when the jedi were busting their powers all over the galaxy, which means he more than likely never saw one before that, unless of course he was on the wrong side of the law. Some people read too deep into what is said. Faith in that ancient jedi religion..... well was he supposed to say, Faith in that 20,000 year old, wiped out religion of 20 years... thats a mouthful. This pretty much sums up what the OP is asking. Putting it into perspective, there was TRILLIONS of beings living on Coruscant. The jedi had ONE major temple near the senate district. Keep in mind the ENTIRE planet is covered in one giant connected city. even if the jedi numbered in the millions and all resided on Coruscant and there was 3 Trillion people on the world, the population of Coruscant would out number the jedi 3,000,000/1. And since the Jedi are very closely connected with the Senate, they'd spend most of their time within the senate district. So the closer you live to that part of the world, the more likely you'd be to see a jedi. the vast majority of people on Coruscant, especially those who lived on the other side of the world from the senate would likely never see a jedi except for maybe as peacekeepers or mediators in legal disputes. Now, consider the fact that there is likely far fewer then a million jedi, perhaps maybe 30-50 thousand at the orders peak. There are THOUSANDS of worlds with populations of over a billion people. A very large portion of the galaxy could very well just think jedi are hokey religious people, monks or other similar people who are elevated to legendary status out of the fact that they have been around so damn long. Given at force sensitivity is so rare, its easy to think an imperial officer could scoff away those "silly jedi/sith ideals". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AydenStorm Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 As per the Star Wars Essential Atlas, there are 70 million star systems with large enough populations to have representation in the Galactic Senate. The galaxy is made up of Trillions, if not Quadrillions of beings. At their peak before the Clone Wars there were 10,000 Jedi in the Order. Jedi were RARE... mythic heroes in alot of ways. Virtually all of them fought in the Clone Wars, and by the end to the Galactic population they were the evil that Palpatine cut from the Empire. Of course people would forget about their "religion" and shun it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noviru Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone! This is a heads up that we recently had to remove/edit several posts. A reminder that due to the volatile nature of real-world politics and religions, discussions regarding them are inappropriate for the forum. While you are free to discuss Admiral Motti's line, make sure it remains in the context of the Star Wars™ universe. Thank you! Edited February 16, 2012 by Noviru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheyrd Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ok guys, Go back to that fatally flawed movie Episode 1. When Gunyon Viceroy was asked if he has ever seen a jedi before. This is when the jedi where more prevelant. Jedi were rare even in the jedi orders existance during a peaceful era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellatus Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Putting it into perspective, there was TRILLIONS of beings living on Coruscant. 1 trillion, according to the Wizards of the Coast source, which is the only source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KremlinKOA Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. Having recently rewatched some old MacGyver episodes, I was astonished at how quickly Tv attitudes have changed in the real world. For those who do not know, MacGyver was a TV action show about a guy with a physics degree who used science and impromptu devices to do secret agent work for the U.S. Government. A show in the 1980s with a science hero portrayed religion, particularly christianity, as a force for good. In addition it portrayed the hero of science as religious. Go to a forum like the Huffington post today and see if that sentiment still prevails. This was after only 20-30 years. This was also about a religion that lasted 2000 years. We humans are fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarylMusashi Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. You've just discovered that George Lucas is a master of the force power called "Continuity Error". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnlimitedPowuh Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. You have to examine the dialogue in its full context... General Tagge: What of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical reading of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, they might find a weakness and exploit it. Vader: The plans you refer to will soon be back in our hands. Motti: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they have obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe! I suggest we use it! Vader: Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. Motti: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you enough clairvoyance to find the rebels' hidden fortress... <gasp> In full context, Motti is eager to unleash the Death-Star and mocks Vader; and in return Vader shows him exactly why Destroying a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force; Sublety. Blowing up a planet is not subtle it's plain and simply brute force. Using the Force to physically choke someone and if they so choose, end their life all due to their concentration and manipulation of the force is SUBTLE. Taking the reference of the "ancient religion" in terms of the time passed between the Jedi purge and the moment which this conversation takes place it seems is being taken out of context. The Religion itself is ancient, it doesn't mean that the Moff has no clue about history and what transpired when he was like a a teenager. What it means is the current prevailing attitude towards the religion is that it's hokey and that technology was far superior. There are no more Jedi, and only two Sith. Of course people are going to start being critical and thinking like the Moff did, they've likely never seen a force user doing anything significant to make them think otherwise and have likely only heard some tales here and there. Remember, even when Palpatine was manipulating his way into power, not everyone knew he was a Sith Lord. Viceroy Gunray didn't know Sidious was Palpatine. Only his inner circle 'really' knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) 1 trillion, according to the Wizards of the Coast source, which is the only source. pfft Wizards of the Coast is pale and sad... they ripped everything they have from West End Games which was the original for SW source material.. even Zahn used West End reference guides Having recently rewatched some old MacGyver episodes, I was astonished at how quickly Tv attitudes have changed in the real world. For those who do not know, MacGyver was a TV action show about a guy with a physics degree who used science and impromptu devices to do secret agent work for the U.S. Government. A show in the 1980s with a science hero portrayed religion, particularly christianity, as a force for good. In addition it portrayed the hero of science as religious. Go to a forum like the Huffington post today and see if that sentiment still prevails. This was after only 20-30 years. This was also about a religion that lasted 2000 years. We humans are fickle. uh MacGuyver.... if he would just have carried a pistol his life would have been so much easier Edited February 17, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailhun Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 In full context, Motti is eager to unleash the Death-Star and mocks Vader; and in return Vader shows him exactly why Destroying a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force; Sublety. Blowing up a planet is not subtle it's plain and simply brute force. Using the Force to physically choke someone and if they so choose, end their life all due to their concentration and manipulation of the force is SUBTLE. I always took that line to mean that (according to Vader at least) the Force could destroy a lot more than a planet. The DS goes 'zap' and one planet is destroyed. A force-user (if so inclined) could use the force to take out a solar system, a galaxy or more. As Yoda says: 'Size matters not.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aximand Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well the Jedi Order was around for thousands of years, so that can count as an ancient "religion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KremlinKOA Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 pfft Wizards of the Coast is pale and sad... they ripped everything they have from West End Games which was the original for SW source material.. even Zahn used West End reference guides uh MacGuyver.... if he would just have carried a pistol his life would have been so much easier True, his gunphobia did cause him regular problems. What I found wierd about it is that it was not an issue with killing, just with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrong_turn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 His statement is technically accurate even in the context of the greater SW lore. He isn't saying that the religion is ancient in the sense that no one has practiced it a long time. He is saying that it is ancient in that the Sith/Jedi/Force Users have been practicing for a long time. Your right in the sense that the statement is vague and could be interpreted either way. But that vagueness is ultimately why it still works. The other thing to consider is the guys age. It had been 20 years since the purge and nearly all of the Jedi were gone. Odds are he had probably never seen one or at the very least seen the force being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnlimitedPowuh Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I always took that line to mean that (according to Vader at least) the Force could destroy a lot more than a planet. The DS goes 'zap' and one planet is destroyed. A force-user (if so inclined) could use the force to take out a solar system, a galaxy or more. As Yoda says: 'Size matters not.' Totally agree, while we never see that type of feat in the movies I think that'd be possible, but for the sake of the movie(s) and for whatever reason George thought the choking would suffice as the display of power. But many things the Jedi/Sith did using the force were subtle which is why I made the reference. The flick of his fingers Obi-Wan does to distract the guards near the tractor-beam controls for example, or when Qui-Gonn makes sure those dice end up on the right color... subtle. Often times they chose to use subtle means to achieve their goals. The Empire was about showing sheer force and numbers yet smaller guerilla tactics by the Rebellion were doing their part as well, partly out of necessity but nonetheless effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfinsix Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) nm i was wrong, the word jedi was in the dialogue! my apologies! Edited February 17, 2012 by sharkfinsix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malevolent Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) After watching the European trailer for the upcoming Star Wars kinect game, (Which is going to be horrible.) I remembered that particular part in the movie and have always wondered something. Episode IV takes place around 20 years after the fall of the Republic. Admiral Motti, the guy who famously says "Your sad devotion to that ancient Jedi religion" which is followed by Vader force choking him was alive when the Jedi were a common occurrence and everyone was saying "May the force be with you". Yet he acts like its been hundreds of years and the Force is some kind of cheap trick. Surely someone his age would know better than to mock the force especially in front of an extremely powerful force user. Think about it this way....... Obi Wan said 1000 generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the old republic (roughly 20000 years, however a generation is) Palpatine in the prequels says, 1000 years..... big difference between a year and a generation... What Im saying is.... Lucas screwed everything up when he created the prequels but, despite that, lets look at it this way VVV Quite possible he was meaning to the purge of that ancient religion that's been around so long, not necessarily that it was old compared to when it ended which was roughly 20 years ago, but to how old it is as a religion. And for him who was..... 30 i guess, 20 years ago the religion was purged so... meh, could just be in context. Edited February 17, 2012 by Darth_Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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