Are Mercs broken when it comes to PvP?

[D-Bone]

I've had an incredibly difficult time in PvP, and at first, I thought it was only gear related. Now that I'm finally getting the majority of my battlemaster gear I finding that I still get owned by almost every class. It feels like each class has the ability to counter my abilities to almost nullify any amount of damage that I do to them.

 

Cast times for any of the harder hitting abilities seem incredibly long in a 1v1 battle; The Cure ability does absolutely nothing against the dots from Sith Inquisitors (not too mention that the amount of damage that Force Lighting does is INSANE!), Operatives slice through my armor like a hot knife in a few hits, Powertechs and Troopers laugh at my damage output, as do most healer types, and last but not least, it feels like most classes have some way of resisting my Jet Boost when I try and gain a little extra time/distance.

 

I'm currently running a 10/31/0 build and try to use tracer missile as the "go to" ability and rotate in Rail Shot, Unload, and Heatseeker accordingly. When I see my health is at about 1/4 down I'll pop Energy Shield and Kolto Overload. If they get in at point blank range I try stunning them, use Flame Thrower, and then Jet boost but most it seems 50% of the time Jedi, Sith, Operatives, and Smugglers are able to resist this ability.

 

I really like the class a lot but I'm starting to feel like the Merc is not a strong viable class in PvP unless I able to just sit behind the crowd and just plink away at people. I'm open to constructive feedback on what works best for other people in their PvP experience.

[LarkBenson]

I've had an incredibly difficult time in PvP, and at first, I thought it was only gear related. Now that I'm finally getting the majority of my battlemaster gear I finding that I still get owned by almost every class. It feels like each class has the ability to counter my abilities to almost nullify any amount of damage that I do to them.

 

Cast times for any of the harder hitting abilities seem incredibly long in a 1v1 battle; The Cure ability does absolutely nothing against the dots from Sith Inquisitors (not too mention that the amount of damage that Force Lighting does is INSANE!), Operatives slice through my armor like a hot knife in a few hits, Powertechs and Troopers laugh at my damage output, as do most healer types, and last but not least, it feels like most classes have some way of resisting my Jet Boost when I try and gain a little extra time/distance.

 

I'm currently running a 10/31/0 build and try to use tracer missile as the "go to" ability and rotate in Rail Shot, Unload, and Heatseeker accordingly. When I see my health is at about 1/4 down I'll pop Energy Shield and Kolto Overload. If they get in at point blank range I try stunning them, use Flame Thrower, and then Jet boost but most it seems 50% of the time Jedi, Sith, Operatives, and Smugglers are able to resist this ability.

 

I really like the class a lot but I'm starting to feel like the Merc is not a strong viable class in PvP unless I able to just sit behind the crowd and just plink away at people. I'm open to constructive feedback on what works best for other people in their PvP experience.

 

Youch. Lot of bad decisions in how you describe your play. I gotta be honest here, seems like a learn to play issue.

 

First off, the reason why someone would resist your knockbacks is the resolve bar. This is a crucial PvP mechanic and you need to learn how it works and how to work around it. There's a sticky in the PvP forum you should take a look at for that.

 

Second, never wait until you're at 1/4 HP to use your shield: that's essentially wasting it. To get the most out of it's uptime you need to pop it early in a fight so that you get every second of it. Same with Kolto. You should be using them at 80% or so, depending on the situation.

 

Thirdly, stunning into a flamethrower isn't going to get you anywhere. Flamethrower doesn't do much damage and you should be using that time to kite away while using your instants (ie rail shot, heartseeker, etc). And as I mentioned, the reason they then resist jet boost is that dart will fill their resolve bar. What you should instead be doing when melee closes is first using rocket punch to gain distance (and try to side strafe in the direction away from where you'll be pushing them as you do this to gain extra distance), then use instants while moving away to create space and give you room to start casting again. If they charge you, you can then use rocket boost and proceed to nuke away. That's a basic guideline anyway - using your knockbacks is highly situational and you need to learn through experience what works when.

 

That's really the tip of the iceberg. There are a ton more tips and tricks you need to learn to PvP effectively as a merc. I highly suggest scanning the pvp-related threads in this forum for more info.

[Kadgarth]

Check out the videos in my sig.

 

I'm a straight up healing merc but they'll give you some idea as to how good a bounty hunter can be in PvP.

[D-Bone]

I figured there were a number of things that I wasn't doing right. However, when I said I pop Energy Shield when health is down a 1/4, I should have said when at 80%, same with Kolto Overload. So at least I'm doing one thing right.

 

I appreciate the constructive feedback. Obviously, I've got some homework cut out for me. Are there any classes in particular that give you a seriously hard time to beat?

[ManiacalShen]

Who's hard to kill is pretty situational for me, except that dueling Shadows/Assassins always goes like this:

 

One of us jumps the other.

Commence facemelting.

We're either even-ish, or I'm clearly winning.

They Force Cloak.

Their next burst either murders me or brings me down too low in health to recover. >_<

 

At least it seems that way lately.

 

Beyond that... good snipers or juggs can be my biggest pain.

[Yazule]

well arsenal + kiting does not work well unless HS or Rail is up and because they are instant kiting can only last about 1.5 seconds (GCD) and then you need to plant to do dps.

 

This is why PYRO pvp is so good, they can dot and kite.

 

I am specced for pve (max dps) so i am learning to stand my ground, after a jetboost a good unload slows them down for long enough for it to finish, save my instants for the 4 second dead zone from an interrupt, dont forget shots like missle blast (heat hog but in a solo fight who cares) and DFA (which is dumb to cast single target for heat efficiency but who cares)

 

i find a LOT of people will use an interupt on DFA and then TM is free to cast for a couple of seconds...

 

either you got it or you don't and per earlier conversations, edart is going to fill resolve so dont use it til you have used 2 knockbacks (and resolve is almost full anyway)

[lijahrobinson]

I am a Pyro build instead of arsenal so i will give you my 2 cents from my experiences in playing both. Firstly, as an arsenal, you do not want to be the center of attention. You do not want to go looking for one on one battles. This means your game is all about positioning. You want to hit them hard before they really know what is going on and before they can get away. Also, keep items that can impair your line of sight with the target at a minimum. A good player can pretty much make you impotent by using line of sight to their advantage. So what does this mean? You want to be either behind your team, or flanking your opponent. Your mobility is limited as your main attack has to be done while stationary so keep an eye on your surroundings. Tracer missiles tend to be a beacon that yells "Kill Me" to some of your opponents and they will seek you out. Also, figure out what classes are your problem classes and be aware of where they are during a fight. I also suggest taking a good look at other people in your group and on the opposing team that are also Arsenal Mercs. Try to figure out what they are doing that you are not that is successful.

 

This isn't to say that you can't kill 1 on 1. You have some pretty high damaging abilities. This thing is, you want to get the drop on your opponent and you want to be in a situation where you can hurt them badly before they can get too far away.

 

Alternatively, you may want to try out the Pyrotech tree. Heat management is tougher than an Arsenal and there is a little bit more complexity but i find its very rewarding of good play. As a Pyro, i absolutely love going against Arsenal builds. Its hard to die to them as long as you have a line of sight blocker. The class i seem to have the most trouble with is Mauraders. In a 1 on 1 strait up, they have the advantage. Pyrotechs rely on dots and kiting and slowing an enemy and keeping them out of range. Mauraders have the right mix of gap closing abilities, stuns/locks, and damage output to really put the hurting on you. Sorc i am not really that afraid of and if i land the first couple blows their chances of living are drastically reduced. Assassins are a little tricky with their stealth and their "i'm almost dead so i am going to disapear" tricks. The trick here is timing the thermal detonator. Most of them blink out when they are in the 2-4k health range and that is usually enough that a thermal detno thrown at the right time will blast them as they try to scamper off. Snipers can also put a hurting on you if you try to charge them strait on, again, line of sight is key to this fight, at least until you have landed the first couple hard hits. Operative can be tricky as well. The key to this fight really comes down to if they caught you at half health or not and correct use of your stun break. You only got one, so make it count and never use it on the "knockdown" attack, it only lasts 1.5 sec anyways.

 

As your gear gets better so will your damage/survivability. I am in full champion gear with 3 or 4 pieces of battlemaster. So warzone commendations really only mean more stims to me. Get the red ones and pop them when you need them and when you are about to have a big battle. The green ones heal for a darn lot so don't be afraid to use them either. Also, make sure to have two different relics and to keep them on cool down. 3xx power or 220 Crit/surge for 20 sec, every 2 min is nothing to laugh at.

 

Hope this gives you a little perspective.

[Cammor]

I Play Arsenal for pvp exclusively, and I do pretty well for most the cases. Its getting to the point where I'm getting focused instead of the healers against people I played before. And here are my 2 credits.

 

We are not very good at 1v1. But we can be good if we know the other player's spec. However, unless its someone you played against before, its hard to figure out.

 

For example, warrior tank spec or hybrid tank spec have an immunity to CC (including knock back) for 4 seconds after they charge in. At this point of the game, its very difficult to tell that they have this immunity until you burned your CC. Worst cast scenario is you burn both stun and knockback. Which makes thing very difficult when the fight goes like this. Charge 4 second immune, interrupt #1 (6 seconds on you at this point), force push for interrupt #2 and 2 second knockdown, 2nd charge (since it refresh from force push) for another 4 second cc immunity, and finally force chock for another CC. Its up to you to figure out when to time your CCs perfectly. I can tell you that you want to get the knock back in before they force push you. That will buy you time. This match up is very difficult, but can be won.

 

Snipers. In normal cover, you can knock them back. However, when the cover has the metal reinforcement, they are immune to CC. So, if a sniper engages you in open space and he bunker down right next to you, you do everything in your power to RUN AWAY and stay alive. You have to LOS them asap. Unless you out gear them by a good margin. When you can piller hop, you can kill snipers fairly easy.

 

The melee ops/smuggler is a different story. If they open from stealth, your CC will land 100%. I actually have less issues with them when they open from stealth unless they catch me w/ my pants down. Like running around w/ 50% hp. You eat stun 1 and maybe 2 (good ones will stun lock you), break only when on full resolve. You knock them back (hopefully you are good w/ aiming knock backs at this point), you can get 2 tracers off before they are even close to you. Usually they will burn their combat stealth because for them to eat 2 tracers + our instants rotation is 2/3rd of their hp. Have your detect stealth ready. You catch them in stealth, GG.

 

Marouders.... I find them super damn hard to 1v1. Why? they have a shield that makes them pretty much invulnerable. And i swear those shields lasts forever (ya, that's right forever. I don't care what anyone says hahaha). My only tip is this. Front load the damage as much as you can so they will pop their shield(s) early. Once they pop the shield, use only auto attack and CCs to get distance. In the mean time, use cure if they are dot spec. Then pray to god you survive long enough till their shield goes down and you have your 2nd instant rotation up.

 

Inquisitors are not sooo bad IMO. But you have to be very reactionary. You pretty much have to feed off what they give you. Because force speed is THAT good. But key point is this. They are MORE stationary then us WHEN they DPS. You cannot eat that face to face. You LOS them and you can win.

 

Against all healers... well... you wait for a friend to help you. But I'm okay w/ not being able to kill a healer 1v1. Healer should survive any dps 1v1, or they would get rolled so hard in any team fight.

 

Anyways, this game is not balanced around 1v1. There are very obvious classes/spec that are good for that. But a team support dps, we do very VERY well.

 

Oh last tip, keep yourself near max health at all times. Our heals are pretty good. I personally been using the "next ability instant" on my 2second heals. So I pop my hot/shield/heal on the run and another fast heal when I hit a corner. Usually that last me enough for my 2nd dps rotation or wait out their defensive cooldowns. I actually don't combo it w/ my mez as much.

 

Oh tip 2 sorry, you can aoe knock back. Wait for a tic or 2 on the resolve (since they are snared anyways). mez. then stun before their resolve is full. So fight goes like, knock back, 1 tracer or 2 if u feel good, instant dps rotation, mez, run back/heal up/hot/shield, delayed blast since it doesn't break mez till damage is dealt, tracer, run around w/ filler skills, stun, tracer and 2nd round of instant dps rotation. Obviously they don't go as easy as that, sometimes its better to fill their resolve w/ 2nd knock back instead of stun. Don't use rocket punch in 1v1 situations. It gives them too much resolve and will mess up everything IMO.

 

I enjoy my arsenal spec in pvp =) GL!

 

PS, Arsenal can kite/los pretty well. Especially if you look at other range dps class.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Cammor

[XyriusSES]

Nope!

[Yazule]

Nope!

 

lol best reply EVAH

[Ayestes]

Trick people into interrupting things other then Tracer Missile in a one on one fight. My typical fight as a Sorc against a Merc is Jolt (6s Lockout) -> Electrocute (4s Stun) -> Jolt (6s Lockout) while they can only really use Power Shot and Unload. If they cast a Tracer and interrupt it themselves my Jolt won't actually lock anything out and I'm in a lot of trouble. Or if they baited me into thinking they are a healer and I locked out their heal instead of their Tracer... I'm in trouble.

 

I only recently got my Sorc to 50 and even in half Centurion gear I beat the BM Mercs simply because they just openly cast Tracer Missile at my face. Always be on the lookout for someone Interrupting you and be absolutely sure you know what you should be doing when you are interrupted.

 

Beyond that tip, I'm sure the ones that have played Mercs themselves rather then hearing about it through Vent have a better idea. As a Sorc though, I know a free casting Arsenal Merc with no heat is one of the most dangerous things on the battlefield. Ensure that happens more often and you will do better.

[D-Bone]

Again thanks for all of the awesome feedback! I've made some serious changes to my play style and although I haven't completely gotten the hang of the new strategies, quite yet, I can already notice a difference. Once I get more comfortable with the changes I know I will be rockin' it.

[Devoter]

Trick people into interrupting things other then Tracer Missile in a one on one fight. My typical fight as a Sorc against a Merc is Jolt (6s Lockout) -> Electrocute (4s Stun) -> Jolt (6s Lockout) while they can only really use Power Shot and Unload. If they cast a Tracer and interrupt it themselves my Jolt won't actually lock anything out and I'm in a lot of trouble. Or if they baited me into thinking they are a healer and I locked out their heal instead of their Tracer... I'm in trouble.

 

I only recently got my Sorc to 50 and even in half Centurion gear I beat the BM Mercs simply because they just openly cast Tracer Missile at my face. Always be on the lookout for someone Interrupting you and be absolutely sure you know what you should be doing when you are interrupted.

 

Beyond that tip, I'm sure the ones that have played Mercs themselves rather then hearing about it through Vent have a better idea. As a Sorc though, I know a free casting Arsenal Merc with no heat is one of the most dangerous things on the battlefield. Ensure that happens more often and you will do better.

 

They cast Tracer Missiles because the ****** arsenal tree ist designed to do so to get damage up.

And losing as a sorc against a arsenal merc? hmm.. turn your monitor on Sry, but currently merc has such a lack of tools, thats hardly possible.

 

What i can agree with is the fact that a merc is dangerous if you let him cast and ignore him. But that just like any other dps spec in the game.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Devoter

[Cammor]

To the above fresh Inquisitor. Jolt interrupts for 4 seconds not 6. And its on a 12 second CD. So if you are in centurian and you are melting BM Arsenal BH, well I think the BH is just bad bad bad.

 

Look at it this way, lets say you get jolt right of the bat, follow it up w/ a perfect stun. You just used 3 seconds (2 GCD) to lock up the BM for 8 seconds of not casting tracer missile. You have 5 seconds to use 3 spell... but you probably only cast 1 because you want to channel lighting and hope for some procs.

 

But no one uses jolt as the first spell, you go w/ channel damage for some early procs or shield asap (so you you burn the CD and use shield again at end of fight, which btw its the proper response IMO). This guarantees BH at least 1 tracer in the worst scenario. Usually i get min. of 2. If i get 3 tracer on an inquisitor, its lights out for the inquisitor. Why you ask? I'll give them an unload after 3rd tracer for them to burn GCD w/ jolt. Follow up w/ LOS while casting 3 instant damage abilities and run close to them. Stun when they try to run or heal while running close to them. Rocket punch for another instant damage (2k range)/ interrupt. Burn instant CD for another instant tracer.... you get the idea.

 

Well, what if the inquisitor use jolt right of the bat and OMG no tracer missile!? Well just run away and get out of distance/los, its not like you are going to be fighting the sorc in melee (which you should win in melee range to be honest. 2 knock backs as interrupts is too good against a channeling sorc). You just need to be out of distance/los for few seconds anyways. Pop a heal if necessary and reset the fight.

 

A melee w/ interrupt is different.

 

Let me just say this.... you can do some amazing things w/ just 1 tracer debuff.

 

I see too many arsenal spec mercs that are fixated on getting the full stack of debuff/buff. You just need 1 or 2. Unless its a tank but that's another story.

 

Btw, I personally think fake casting tracer is overrated unless you know the other player really well (even if you know is coming you might not even care. you just wasted 1GCD from them not doing damage WOOT!). You just end up hurting yourself a lot against a bad sorc that just sits there and channel lighting. And no one wants to loose to a bad sorc. Fake casting is very unnecessary against a sorc. Against a melee its a different story.

 

Interrupt in this game locks 1 single ability... I barely have enough hotbars for the abilities in this game.

 

you can pop a heal, a shiled, a medipak, some random dps abilities, a stun, a mez, AUTO ATTACK O_O anything while interrupted.

[Akfourtys]

Healer should survive any dps 1v1

Oh realy? Used to see healers standing still healing their arses out being focus dpsed by 3 people including me. Full champ ger merc pyrotech build.

And ive noticed that even when resolve bar is empty, some people ignore our knockbacks. I know there are abilities like powertechs immunity to slow/physical effects, but at least we must notice them to avoid such unlucky ccing.

and some guys are magically tough, matching them to others in similar equipment.

[menisa]

to the above fresh bounty hunter.

 

Suppression

Lowers the cooldown of Whirlwind by [7.5 / 15] seconds and increases the lockout duration of Jolt by [1 / 2] second.

[IsACoolGuy]

I'm only level 13. Started pvp right at 10 and I have no problems so far. There are the typical classes that are harder to kill but its not that big of a deal.

 

Also I have an assassin main so I'm used to pvp being "harder" I guess. Oh and I love not being so squishy as a bh

[Corran]

To the above fresh Inquisitor. Jolt interrupts for 4 seconds not 6. .

 

jolt interrupts for 6 with 2 talents

 

a vengeance/vigilanced spec'd jugg/guardian is immune to all cc for 4s after a force leap

Edited February 17, 2012 by Corran

[Sniggly]

Problem is simple: He is using wrong spec.

 

Pyro is the way to go in PvP.

 

It is stupid ez to kill any Arsenal spec Merc by using LoS. lol

[D-Bone]

 

It is stupid ez to kill any Arsenal spec Merc by using LoS. lol

 

And what happens when you don't have LoS? Seems silly to be reliant on one major factor to win a fight. What about 1v1 on Illum, if you have no LoS? That planet doesn't have many opportunities for LoS.

[Bloodcharged]

And what happens when you don't have LoS? Seems silly to be reliant on one major factor to win a fight. What about 1v1 on Illum, if you have no LoS? That planet doesn't have many opportunities for LoS.

 

It's rarely ever 1 vs 1 in Ilum...just sayin

[Matic]

not boring just boring as ****, i wish i would have went powertech, thankfully Gw2 is here so i will just play my merc till that comes out.

[blackadda]

Problem is simple: He is using wrong spec.

 

Pyro is the way to go in PvP.

 

It is stupid ez to kill any Arsenal spec Merc by using LoS. lol

 

This..

 

Pyro is the superior PVP spec because its superior against targets who are fighting back..arsenal is better agaisnt targets who arent fighting back (PVE)

 

I win 95% of my 1v1's as a Pyro Merc (would be lower but there just arent that many GOOD Marauders and Sentinels, those that exist will wreck any merc)

I Decimate groups in Ilum GroupVGroup PVP, using 30m range AOE's on enemy healer clusters will turn the tide... i get more dmg out of Fusion and Sweep as a Pyro Merc.

I stand a chance against melee as a Pyro Merc(comes down to player skill vs player skill)

I use more than 1 attack in my chain so arent vulnerable to interrupt as a Pyro merc.

I do more burst dmg and more sustained damage(thna aresenal) as a Pyro Merc.

I defend turrets/doors better as a Pyro Merc (superior DOT's)

 

 

The skillcap for Pyro is *much* higher, the result of learning to play it and use all the tools is an amazingly fun class where *skill matters*

 

My skill as a player *MATTERS* as a pyro merc, because I can run and fight at the same time.

 

I expect over time there will be more skilled Marauders/Sentinels to make Pyro's life hard, That class is beautifully designed for killing a Pyro

85% of the Maras and Sents I see just arent good. The difference between good/bad marauders and sentinels is about 350k extra dmg in a match.. the good ones hit 500k fairly often, the bad ones struggle to hit 150k.

 

That said... its the only class that should give you nightmares if the other player is Skilled. OP/Smug will "get lucky" on crits sometimes and kill you but not as often as you kill them.

 

Pretty much once you learn pyro, you just wont want to go back to Arsenal...and youll see Grav/Tracer spammers as "food"

Edited February 21, 2012 by blackadda

[D-Bone]

What's your build blackadda? By that meaning, the points distributed in the talent trees.

[Trauglodyte]

Arsenal isn't a bad spec to play in PvP. You're just extremely reliant on positioning and should you get focused, you're pretty humped. You have the benefit of a mini shield from DPSing, your knockback is on a shorter cool down (as is your PvP trinket), and you shred armor. The problem with all of that is this: in order to do any real damage, you've got to stand still. A lone standing target is meat.

 

Pyro is a ton of fun. It has its short comings too (heat/cures). But you rarely stand still to cast and everything you do sets stuff on fire which is awesome when you're defending.