Saitada Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Why do people always use the budget as a point of attack on TOR? It's not like they're charging you more than standard for both the box and the sub. They assumed all of that cost themselves. You didn't pay a dime until December 2011. So who cares how much they were spending from December 2007-November 2011? Why is this important to you? Why is it the ultimate argument from people upset with the game? It shouldn't make one bit of difference to YOU, the player, because you aren't being asked to pay an amount commensurate with their cost. I think you forget something here. While yes, their cost is irrelevant to me directly, it SHOULD be an indication of the quality of the product they produced. Being in the IT field myself, if I have X budget, to produce X software and deliver it in a working manner, my clients expectations are that the amount of money they spent on me, will produce a product with commensurate quality. BW spent hundred of millions. Not a few million. So the expectations of a product that is exceptional, considering the costs they incurred or claimed.. is not to much to ask. What has been delivered... is not commensurate with the claimed cost spent to produce the product. THAT is why the argument is used, and why it IS a valid point. ~S Edited February 14, 2012 by Saitada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's the Waterworld of videogames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidpow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think you forget something here. While yes, their cost is irrelevant to me directly, it SHOULD be an indication of the quality of the product they produced. being in the IT field myself, if I have X budget, to produce X software and deliver it in a working manner, my clients expectations are that the amount of money they spent on me, will produce a product with commensurate quality. BW spent hundred of millions. Not a few million. So the expectations of a product that is exceptional, considering the costs they incurred or claimed.. is not to much to ask. What has been delivered... is not commensurate with the claimed cost spent to produce the product. THAT is why the argument is used, and why it IS a valid point. ~S It is only valid from the standpoint of a BioWare investor in the event of the game failing/losing money. I mean, I followed the game off and on through development and even then it was plainly obvious what they were spending the money on. They developed 8 storylines that are the equivalent of 8 single player games. Not to mention fully realized sidequests (of which there are a ton). Do you think staffing for that kind of project is inexpensive? Do you think its fairly economical to acquire the use of the Star Wars IP? It's fairly obvious that most of the people who are disappointed were expecting this game to be something more revolutionary in the strict MMO sense than what BioWare had set out to make, which was a persistent Star Wars experience with hybrid single player elements to bridge the gap between console and online gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBenSmokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Seems moreso than the latter. Not from where I'm standing, but thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walnutstain Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So a guy goes to his mechanic, says, " My engine keeps making this weird noise..." Mechanic grabs a phillips head screwdriver and punctures the man's eardrums. Problem resolved. OMG funny!! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidpow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 the gap between console and online gamers. BTW - right here, in this gap, this is where the money is. People like me with FT jobs and families who had to give up online gaming because it required so much time to get anything done and to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It is only valid from the standpoint of a BioWare investor in the event of the game failing/losing money. I mean, I followed the game off and on through development and even then it was plainly obvious what they were spending the money on. They developed 8 storylines that are the equivalent of 8 single player games. Not to mention fully realized sidequests (of which there are a ton). Do you think staffing for that kind of project is inexpensive? Do you think its fairly economical to acquire the use of the Star Wars IP? It's fairly obvious that most of the people who are disappointed were expecting this game to be something more revolutionary in the strict MMO sense than what BioWare had set out to make, which was a persistent Star Wars experience with hybrid single player elements to bridge the gap between console and online gamers. Your argument is valid, yes I expected more than what was delivered. My expectations of an MMO in this day and age are greater than they were when I started playing EQ1 in 99. While the graphics in swtor are much nicer and cleaner than those in EQ1, the overall feel.. seems less. That's just my opinion. Others feel differently, and that's fine. They are as entitled to their opinions as I am to mine (something some of them seem to forget). But all of that aside. You basically hit he nail on the head. They spent a lot of money to produce 8 single player games, within one 'game'. And in doing so, they produced, in my opinion, an inferior product all the way across the board. I'm not one of these people who is going to say, OMG you fail you suck I quit QQQ, I am still willing to give BW some time to add more content, and fix bugs etc etc. Eventually i'd personally like to see more ambiance as well. That is why I consistently say, I'll give BW 6 months to a year to fix the more glaring issues (UI, etc), and if that works well, I'll be willing to give them another 6 months or a year to improve even more. But my hope for more ambiance? Fading. And for me at least, Ambiance is important in a game. W/o it I will likely eventually move on. One thing I AM knowledgeable about is writing code though. I am not going to assume hundreds of millions of lines of code are going to be bug free. Especially when they interact with so many variables within the greater structure. I didn't expect a bug free game, and none of my general unhappiness with the game is related to that. meh, anyway. almost 6am here. Time to pack up the laptop and get ready to go home for the day. ~S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badhand Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Personally, I've played them all. I've raided a number of them. Most are good games, but they are no different. Dude. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) IMO its a short singleplayer game with boring coop. And has a total static linear lifeless instanced MAZE LIKE environment. Which has impact on the whole game. Edited February 14, 2012 by Rigota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrus_OdinAwa Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The game just has no soul... Man I agree completely. 300 million and it all went to fluff. The lack of depth in this game is disturbing. Honestly I can't stop feeling like BW and EA reps are looking at us thinking "suc*********errrrrss". Let's be honest, this game has NOT lived up to the hype; budget or advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) The game just has no soul... Agree, you miss everywhere in this game something that touch you. (from you 1st start up the game to deep end game). Edited February 14, 2012 by Rigota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nite_shade Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I can always remember the first time I stepped out of the starport on Tattooine, on SWG... it was so emersive.. people running around, chatting.. things moving, people fighting.. blaster fire wizzing by.... it was simply amazing! Ohhh! Was that someone on Bantha?!! Oooooo! A Speeder!! I fealt like I'd just woke up in some kind of, ermmm?! STAR WARS game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizionblind Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 lifeless worlds. we have been saying it since day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I can always remember the first time I stepped out of the starport on Tattooine, on SWG... it was so emersive.. people running around, chatting.. things moving, people fighting.. blaster fire wizzing by.... it was simply amazing! Ohhh! Was that someone on Bantha?!! Oooooo! A Speeder!! I fealt like I'd just woke up in some kind of, ermmm?! STAR WARS game!! Wha? I don't remember any of that. Every planet I step off there are NPCs scattered about. Remaining perfectly still. As if I've entered into a wax museum. The guards just stand there, the mobs just stand there, no background noises, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Once again, the ole "everyone is quitting because I don't like it" argument. Its gone beyond conjecture now. People are not quitting the game, and that statement is a lie. Second, we ARE enjoying the game. They have delivered everything that most of us expected, but we took the time to read up on it, understand what they were producing, and we chose the correct genre for our tastes. I can't help that you chose the wrong one, expected something that they did not promise, played a game that you knew nothing about. Its not my experience or the experience of the vast, overwhelming majority of players. ....unless you read the crap that you just posted....and then believe it. ;p Yeah, you will be singing a different toon in 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehMurph Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 There are things called NPCs. That is an extremely lazy stance to have. I shouldn't depend on other players to make the world seem interesting. Especially on questing planets. We should feel like we are part of a giant gaming world, not just a bunch of players in an empty area. I think the point of an MMO just went right over your head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Don't worry guys, once the free month is up all the haters will go away and you'll see how many people actually really like the game! A whole 5 will be left And none of us are "haters" just pointing out the blatently obvious. The TOR fanboi's need to stop and "see" that this game's in the toilet and make a hissy fit to BW, since they listen to you anyway, and tell them about fixing the game but I don't think they will. "The Kiss of Death" (EA) is ruining, uh, running the show, so this game is as good as dead in the water... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidpow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I can always remember the first time I stepped out of the starport on Tattooine, on SWG... it was so emersive.. people running around, chatting.. things moving, people fighting.. blaster fire wizzing by.... it was simply amazing! Ohhh! Was that someone on Bantha?!! Oooooo! A Speeder!! I fealt like I'd just woke up in some kind of, ermmm?! STAR WARS game!! The social system was the best thing about SWG. The buffing classes gave a reason for people to socialize and that was great. If a facsimile were to be brought to TOR, I think it would improve the game experience. But, and this is extremely important to not forget in hindsight, SWG was the least Star Wars of any game ever. PVP was a FOTM fest. All you did was hunt beasts to grind xp and the GCW was nonexistent. The forums were even more foul than these with people whining about how their class was broken. EVERYONE STILL WORE THE SAME ARMOR. You could change the color, but it was the exact same armor. There are definitely a few things TOR could borrow from SWG, but it was far from immersive. In fact, that was a major point of contention on the forums in those days. Nobody did anything Star Wars-y and all of the non-social content was illogical and broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidpow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 A whole 5 will be left And none of us are "haters" just pointing out the blatently obvious. The TOR fanboi's need to stop and "see" that this game's in the toilet and make a hissy fit to BW, since they listen to you anyway, and tell them about fixing the game but I don't think they will. "The Kiss of Death" (EA) is ruining, uh, running the show, so this game is as good as dead in the water... Yep, they're going to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a project and pull the plug after 90 days and the most successful MMO launch ever. RIP TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farbod Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 I think the point of an MMO just went right over your head... If that was the case, they would just make one giant desert with mobs for us to kill and say here: Interact. The fact that MMOs create diverse worlds and landscapes IS IMPORTANT. The life, ambiance, immersive quality, and overall emotional connection we have to these worlds is extremely important to many many players. I mean most of the success of this game is due to the emotional attachment to the STAR WARS universe to begin with. You are faulting us for actually asking for that world to exist IN GAME? LAWL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBite Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Its not only the still mobs and the lack of fauna and critters (even if it's also a big problem of course). On top of that notice how very few unique 3D models are used for every planet. I understand that they must re-use a lot of buildings, trees and everything but every planet have so few unique elements. And this few unique elements are copy-pasted all the time until they fill and make for the whole planet. And don't get me started about the tents (esp. if you are Rep) - tents on Rep fleet cantina, tents on Coruscant, tents on Taris (in the middle of the forest), tents on whole of tatooine of course, tents around nar shadda's casinos and so on and so on. These soulles mazes that are supposed to be planets sadly are killing almost the whole fun for me. Edited February 14, 2012 by SBite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The GTN is the result of the numbers with mats. Once those a balanced, GTN price rigging will end, mat farming will be replaced with craft selling. The ONLY time that the GTN will be "balanced" (as there is no "price rigging" - free economy, can price as you wish...) in reference to mats is when BW decides to fix the horrendously broken crafting profs. And are you new to MMORPG's - mat farming will NEVER end as ppl will ALWAYS need mats. My toons ONLY farm mats as I don't see any reason to craft as BW completely destroyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah, you will be singing a different toon in 6 months. First it was 30 days then it was two months now we are up to six....keep stretching that time line to doom Elvis...in ten years or so you will be right. Oh and it's "Tune" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saitada Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 First it was 30 days then it was two months now we are up to six....keep stretching that time line to doom Elvis...in ten years or so you will be right. Oh and it's "Tune" I HOPE in 6 months things will be improved. Seems like BW is trying. I'll give them that. Kinda Ironic. I both support BW's efforts, and am somewhat disappointed with the product. Man being a Libra is a PITA. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I HOPE in 6 months things will be improved. Seems like BW is trying. I'll give them that. Kinda Ironic. I both support BW's efforts, and am somewhat disappointed with the product. Man being a Libra is a PITA. lol. LOL having a Sister who is a Libra I quite agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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