Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[yodimaster]

You are assuming the Pro-LFG crowd is the majority. So far it's the same 10 or 15 people beating each other up in forum posts. Even if 200,000 wanted it, there's still the other 1.5 million who could either care less or don't want it. Not quite the cost-effective numbers BW needs to make it a priority.

 

I don't assume the minority/majority. I look at BW/EA this way if they feel they can pull more ppl into the game by adding something as X-server LFG they might and its where I'm putting my eggs in the basket other than that I personally think it damages the community but I'm not going to waste time debating over it because in the end EA will have the final word! not BW!

 

See the Madden and NBA Live (NBA ELITE) series........

Edited February 15, 2012 by yodimaster

[ferroz]

No, I was hoping that this would be a discussion regarding the negative and positive effects of a WoW-like LFD tool, and maybe even come up with solutions. All I see here is people bickering over nothing without being able to see the other side's points. I have shared my views several times in this thread, and I have acknowledged, respected and I even like the up sides of the LFD system, but due to my 7 years of experience in WoW where I have seen how it changes a community, I can't see any indication of the negative side-effects not happening.

 

I have explained why I don't acknowledge the "optional" statement from pro-LFDers.

I have explained what I saw happening to the community in WoW.

I have explained what mentality changes we will see if it's implemented.

I have explained the loss to a sense of accomplishment if it's implemented.

I have explained that the speed of which you find groups won't increase, if you know how to use the ENTIRE chat system effectively.

I have explained what options I would like in a LFG system.

I have shown great admiration for the WoW patch 3.10 LFG system (the one before LFD) and the system Aion is currently using.

 

The responses I have gotten is basically:

 

You're wrong

You're wrong

You're wrong

You're wrong

That's because some of them are simple wrong. Some are speculation. And the rest are actually off topic for this particular thread, since they aren't "legitimate reasons to not have a lfd tool"

 

and l've offered counter arguments to pretty much everything on your list; I can't say for sure if I responded to your posts in specific or not. maybe I'll go back and sum up a bit later.

 

Without any evidence, speculations, suggestions, approximations, previous experience in such systems or otherwise to refute my views and experience.

No, I'm pretty sure people have used the same sort of evidence you have when they contradict your claims. Several people have offered speculation and suggestions. Lots of people have talked about their previous experience.

 

so this last bit ... kind of an absurd little addon.

 

If you manage to convince me that there is no chance in hell that the negative side-effects that occurred in WoW will happen here, I will tip my hat to you and I will join your side for a WoW LFD tool.

That's kind of off topic for the thread... (*points at the thread title, and OP*) which is one of the reasons you won't see many people doing that. Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[MalignX]

Is it even about casual vrs hardcore?

 

I personally think Im a social player, and believe it's more a case of being to nasty/mean to join a guild, or to just plain use a LFD tool to do as they please, abusing others along the way.

 

Not one guildie i spoke to in WoW and Rift liked the idea, cus half the time you got some rude, unguilded person who was RPing a Mute.

 

Of course being on a RP server likes it even harder, you end up with *normal PvEers that act like eejits most of the time.

 

*The term was used VERY loosely.

 

After wading through all the BS that has been this 2k+ page thread, it's what it seems like to me. I've never played on a RP server so I can't speculate, but I played WoW plenty and I never once ran into these mythical jerk ninjas everyone keeps talking about, at the very worst someone would get the loot they'd been after and then quit, but that certainly wasn't enough to ruin my day or vilify the RDF.

 

Edit: Nor did I encounter some warm welcoming happy go lucky lovey community that some are claiming existed before it was introduced.

Edited February 15, 2012 by MalignX

[souloferdrick]

No, I was hoping that this would be a discussion regarding the negative and positive effects of a WoW-like LFD tool, and maybe even come up with solutions. All I see here is people bickering over nothing without being able to see the other side's points. I have shared my views several times in this thread, and I have acknowledged, respected and I even like the up sides of the LFD system, but due to my 7 years of experience in WoW where I have seen how it changes a community, I can't see any indication of the negative side-effects not happening.

 

I have explained why I don't acknowledge the "optional" statement from pro-LFDers.

I have explained what I saw happening to the community in WoW.

I have explained what mentality changes we will see if it's implemented.

I have explained the loss to a sense of accomplishment if it's implemented.

I have explained that the speed of which you find groups won't increase, if you know how to use the ENTIRE chat system effectively.

I have explained what options I would like in a LFG system.

I have shown great admiration for the WoW patch 3.10 LFG system (the one before LFD) and the system Aion is currently using.

 

The responses I have gotten is basically:

 

You're wrong

You're wrong

You're wrong

You're wrong

 

Without any evidence, speculations, suggestions, approximations, previous experience in such systems or otherwise to refute my views and experience. If you manage to convince me that there is no chance in hell that the negative side-effects that occurred in WoW will happen here, I will tip my hat to you and I will join your side for a WoW LFD tool.

 

Nothing positive could come from such a thing, as you well know from playing WoW.

 

And that's not a knock on WoW or SWToR, they're not the problem. The problem is the players themselves.

 

An LFD tool would be a great addition if it was used responsibly by rational adults but unfortunately, we're saddled with the exact opposite thus rendering any potential benefits moot.

 

Its not that I have no faith in the devs to create a workable tool, I don't have any faith that the players will use it in a way that's not totally degenerated over time.

[Senatsu]

That's because some of them are simple wrong. Some are speculation. And the rest are actually off topic for this particular thread, since they aren't "legitimate reasons to not have a lfd tool"

 

and l've offered counter arguments to pretty much everything on your list; I can't say for sure if I responded to your posts in specific or not. maybe I'll go back and sum up a bit later.

 

 

No, I'm pretty sure people have used the same sort of evidence you have when they contradict your claims. Several people have offered speculation and suggestions. Lots of people have talked about their previous experience.

 

so this last bit ... kind of an absurd little addon.

 

That's kind of off topic for the thread... (*points at the thread title, and OP*) which is one of the reasons you won't see many people doing that.

 

So my experiences are now speculation?

 

I KNOW what happened to WoW after LFD, many people have said it to you. Several times. Very clearly, too. But you guys seem to just disregard it without giving it a thought at all.

 

Since this thread is spiraling into grammar nazism and personal grudges anyway, why not? If you need us to convince you why we shouldn't have an LFD tool, is it too much to ask why you wish to go to such extremes and need one? When there are plenty of things that can be done before things turn so bad it's a requirement.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Senatsu

[SlickDevlan]

With only 11k views on this thread it was already a forgone conclusion that minority's would be arguing with minority's.

 

But when even the other side for the most part readily admits that if the tool were introduced people would flock to it I think the point leans towards it's introduction.

 

If judging from here.

 

Given biowares flip flop from "not planning it" to "discussing it" tells me they have stats that have made them change there minds.

 

Most people would probably take free end game gear too. But even if my counter point were true, simply stating that "people would flock to it" does not make it good. Which is a little funny since none of the pro LFD arguments "show" or "prove" anything either.

[ferroz]

Since this thread is spiraling into grammar nazism and personal grudges anyway, why not?

Where's grammar nazism?

 

If you need us to convince you why we shouldn't have an LFD tool, is it too much to ask why you wish to go to such extremes and need one?

The former is the thread topic, the latter is a strawman argument for most of the people who are arguing in favor of an LFD tool.

 

so the former is a reasonable thing to expect in this thread. The latter is not.

 

When there are plenty of things that can be done before things turn so bad it's a requirement.

actually, it's something I'd like regardless of whether people think it's "necessary" ... along with the rest of the full suite of cross server tools.

[MalignX]

Nothing positive could come from such a thing, as you well know from playing WoW.

I played WoW and I disagree.

 

And that's not a knock on WoW or SWToR, they're not the problem. The problem is the players themselves.

 

Then it's safe to say that people that play MMOs in general are ninja jerks.

 

An LFD tool would be a great addition if it was used responsibly by rational adults but unfortunately, we're saddled with the exact opposite thus rendering any potential benefits moot.

 

This is pure opinion on your part.

 

Its not that I have no faith in the devs to create a workable tool, I don't have any faith that the players will use it in a way that's not totally degenerated over time.

 

Or any other system implemented. Why even give them games to play at all then?

 

You're right though, LFD tool will be a great addition.

[darkcerb]

They'll always say "not planning it" at launch to prevent their focus from being diverted to areas of less need. Now that things are settling down a bit, they're softening their stance. At this point, everything other than bug fixing, character xfers, UI customization and new content additions is announced as "we're discussing it."

 

That's like the people who were furious at launch that the game didn't have everything other games had because they hitched their wagons to a single line in a 2½ year old press release. "At the same time, we will still deliver all the fun features and activities that fans have come to expect in a AAA massively multiplayer online game."

 

So just like every other mmo dev's.

 

Well I'm re-assured still, because cross server lfg is the way apparently. Judging from current industry contenders.

[Sporin]

Nothing positive could come from such a thing, as you well know from playing WoW.

 

And that's not a knock on WoW or SWToR, they're not the problem. The problem is the players themselves.

 

An LFD tool would be a great addition if it was used responsibly by rational adults but unfortunately, we're saddled with the exact opposite thus rendering any potential benefits moot.

 

Its not that I have no faith in the devs to create a workable tool, I don't have any faith that the players will use it in a way that's not totally degenerated over time.

 

This hit the nail on the head!

 

And it's not a case of a few honestly want it because they can't get a group (In that case, I do feel sorry for you), BUT, it will be abused & the rest will suffer if they end up using it (which they will, because of no other choice/peer pressure) and a few bad apples will destroy another MMO.

[darkcerb]

So my experiences are now speculation?

 

I KNOW what happened to WoW after LFD, many people have said it to you. Several times. Very clearly, too. But you guys seem to just disregard it without giving it a thought at all.

 

Since this thread is spiraling into grammar nazism and personal grudges anyway, why not? If you need us to convince you why we shouldn't have an LFD tool, is it too much to ask why you wish to go to such extremes and need one? When there are plenty of things that can be done before things turn so bad it's a requirement.

 

Here's my problem with you and your arguments.

 

You put forward that the lfd was a terrible thing.

 

That wasn't my exp with it or rifts.

 

So that puts us at an impasse that you refuse to see, instead repeating that it did happen and we're wrong.

 

And then you turn around and tell us to stop doing what you're doing right now.

 

You can't have it both ways.

[MalignX]

Most people would probably take free end game gear too. But even if my counter point were true, simply stating that "people would flock to it" does not make it good. Which is a little funny since none of the pro LFD arguments "show" or "prove" anything either.

 

What's there to "Show" or "Prove"?

 

I want a LFG tool. Fact.

 

It will make it 100x easier to get a FP group than it the current system. Fact.

 

Not sure what else you believe needs to be provided in order to get one, which we are already. Am I open to ways it could be improved over previous games? Sure. Will I accept not getting one because you don't like it and say you have proof that it's the source of all scum and villainy in the world? Nope.

[darkcerb]

Most people would probably take free end game gear too. But even if my counter point were true, simply stating that "people would flock to it" does not make it good. Which is a little funny since none of the pro LFD arguments "show" or "prove" anything either.

 

Right back at you in regards to the second as to the first, well done you performed the equiv of godwinning in these threads, alarmist escalation completely at odds with the scope of this thread.

[ferroz]

So my experiences are now speculation?

your interpretations of some of your experiences are, and how the addition of a instant grouping cross server tool would affect swtor is.

 

for example: your speculation about the mentality changes we will see if it's implemented.

 

I KNOW what happened to WoW after LFD, many people have said it to you. Several times. Very clearly, too. But you guys seem to just disregard it without giving it a thought at all.

So did I. My experiences are very different, and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't just chalk up your interpretation as "rose colored glasses before lfd" Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[darkcerb]

This hit the nail on the head!

 

And it's not a case of a few honestly want it because they can't get a group (In that case, I do feel sorry for you), BUT, it will be abused & the rest will suffer if they end up using it (which they will, because of no other choice/peer pressure) and a few bad apples will destroy another MMO.

 

Wow was destroyed? Rift was destroyed?

 

When did this happen?

[MalignX]

This hit the nail on the head!

 

And it's not a case of a few honestly want it because they can't get a group (In that case, I do feel sorry for you), BUT, it will be abused & the rest will suffer if they end up using it (which they will, because of no other choice/peer pressure) and a few bad apples will destroy another MMO.

 

This is just grandiose. Why implement any system that helps players do anything? Show me what MMO has been destroyed by this?

[harpuax]

cross server is a solution.

 

cross server with an option to search just your own is a solution.

 

Apparently putting forward solutions doesn't end the debate, turns out all we can do is argue for our own and wait and see which bioware goes with.

 

I agree cross sever should be an option, But we also need random as an option.

 

The issue with the debate is it is debating 2 different options within the tool. I think most (if not all) agree there needs to be some sort of tool (heck there already is one). It is the features that need to be hammered out.

 

So without going even farther off topic I will leave this post in favor of one about features of a LFG tool as to offer solutions (if only people read the suggestion box forums). Sorry for any feathers I may have ruffled getting caught up in this silly debate. Peace.

Edited February 15, 2012 by harpuax

[yodimaster]

Here's a solution Just give ppl free gear that way u never have to leave the fleet or have to group.

[MalignX]

I agree cross sever should be an option, But we also need random as an option.

 

The issue with the debate is it is debating 2 different options within the tool. I think most (if not all) agree there needs to be some sort of tool (heck there already is one). It is the features that need to be hammered out.

 

So without going even farther off topic I will leave this post in favor of one about features of a LFG tool as to offer solutions. Sorry for any feathers I may have ruffled getting caught up in this silly debate. Peace.

 

Cross-Server or In-Server option? Deal!

Random or Non-Random option? Deal!

 

Wow. Compromise.

[darkcerb]

What has a LFD & Narcotics got in common? Both destroy society!

JUST SAY "NO!" KIDS!

 

Just read your sig.

 

Wow.

 

That's...wow, I've seen alot in these threads. But that's just precious.

[darkcerb]

Here's a solution Just give ppl free gear that way u never have to leave the fleet or have to group.

 

More counter-argument fun?

 

Or random inflammatory commenter?

 

You be the judge.

[Sporin]

Just read your sig.

 

Wow.

 

That's...wow, I've seen alot in these threads. But that's just precious.

 

touche!

[ferroz]

Here's a solution Just give ppl free gear that way u never have to leave the fleet or have to group.

that doesn't solve the problem. I still can't get into cross server groups. Getting into single server groups takes too long to be worth my time.

[darkcerb]

touche!

 

Please tell me that your post was an ironic hit on the counter-argument as is your sig.

 

If not I will have lost a little faith in humanity.

 

I feel bad having to ask, as it spoils the effect.

 

But I honestly can't tell anymore.

Edited February 15, 2012 by darkcerb

[MalignX]

I can't help but hearing that dude from South Park will all these AntiLFGers.. "You don't like Amurica, you keen just get out!". "You don't like SWTOR the way it is, just get out!" How dare we want anything different! Our audacity!