Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[yodimaster]

ok - it doesn't matter if you understand it or not. This nerfing instances is incorrect btw - as I stated, the luck of the draw buff(which caused the cata "nerf") did not even work the first 4 months, it was not applying even though it said it was.

 

Did you even play WoW?

 

Yup from release day till a few week after Cata release!

Edited February 15, 2012 by yodimaster

[ferroz]

Who is going to go on record and admit theyre too inadequate, for whatever reason, to find a group? No, they all pose as highly degree'd university professors, who, through no fault of their own, cannot find a group.

It's not that I can't find a group. It's that it takes long enough to find these groups that it's not worth my time; Add in that if someone has a connection issue, or an emergency and has to log off, it's a major inconvenience.

 

With a cross server lffp, I expect I'll have queue times that are under 5 minutes (maybe even near instant, depending on my toon). I'll teach bad players how to be better ones. I'll deal with, /kick and /ignore a handful of jerks. I'll replace people that are kicked or have to leave in minutes.

 

bottom line: I'll have a renewed interest in doing flashpoints.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[darkcerb]

Yup from release day till a week after Cata release!

 

I was running heroics in guild for quite some time after that without nerfs, got a link to those claims?

 

Besides anything the hard content is still there, raids hard mode raids and here a level above. Nightmare mode.

 

That's what I don't understand about your argument, unless you just want an extra layer of gear between you and the un-washed masses?

 

All that changes is the volume of groups and what bioware does with that data is outside the scope of this thread.

[PjPablo]

See, what no one is going to admit is the mass market narcissistic hedonist mmo player is just to weak to hold it down and needs to be guided by the nose through everything.

 

You might want to talk to BW because it seems that what you just described is their target demo. You might be playing the wrong game if you expect a different experience.

[Kaelshi]

Yup from release day till a few week after Cata release!

 

you could have learned this in less than a minute.

 

Luck of the Draw buff was fixed(started being applied and increased the buff) with the release of patch 4.0.6 which was released Feb 8th 2011.

 

Cataclysm was released December 7th 2010.

 

Now I'm not math major, but december 7th to feb 8th seems like more than a few weeks.

 

It seems to be basically 2 full months. Perhaps I'm wrong though, feb does have less days than other months, and maybe it was a leap year.

[darkcerb]

Who is going to go on record and admit theyre too inadequate, for whatever reason, to find a group? No, they all pose as highly degree'd university professors, who, through no fault of their own, cannot find a group.

 

I picked the wrong server apparently as I can't find a group.

 

I picked the wrong faction.

 

I'm socially awkward, and would like a tool to be the middle man for me.

 

I have limited time that can't be eaten up spamming general and whispering people.

 

I am one of these, which one doesn't concern you or this topic because all and many more are applicable.

[Taroen]

well I edited it.

 

You're also missing something that you're going to hate. There is a reason random is better.

 

Lets take one of your arguments. There were and are people in WoW and likely here, that are not good at raiding or grouping. That is absolutely true and without argument by anyone.

 

If you are doing something only in-server those people could easily be well known and get blacklisted for being bad. You, being a young player who has all sorts of time to play, would say they should get better at the game and deserve to be black listed.

 

Me being a older and more mature would say that even bad players should be able to experience content.

 

There is a line between ruining content with how bad someone is and making it harder but doable with a bad player.

 

Random x-server allows bad players to play content they would not be able to.

 

That is less important to me than casual players, but it still is a reason.

 

The fallacy in your arguments is all of the personal assumptions that you make. You want to make this debate personal when it isn't. I'm not nearly as young as you want to think I am, and setting yourself up as "mature" is a fairly lame thing to do, especially in light of your recent childish posts.

 

People get blacklisted for a reason. The worst of them because they are jerks. Bad players may improve, if given a chance, or they may not. I once had to patiently explain to a Druid in WoW (which was my main class) why it was not a good thing to queue as a healer in tank spec/gear. That's stupid that you just can't fix with a baseball bat.

 

What you want is for bad players to be able to run content. But bad players fail content unless the content gets tuned to them. The random groups ARE the worst way to make a group, and making those groups the standard for the game is a very bad thing.

 

We could have tools that were game-wide that anyone could see from anywhere, flagging ourselves for the content we want to run, listing our spec. Our current tool is so counter-intuitive that no one uses it very much. Some people don't even know it exists. A stand-alone tool could solve the problem without having to go to the extremes of cross-server random crap.

 

But... As we have witnessed here, some people will not support such a tool, even if it gets them groups, because the groups aren't really what they want. And I take criticism for saying that some people want an "IWIN" button..?

 

I was right all along...

[Kaelshi]

The fallacy in your arguments is all of the personal assumptions that you make. You want to make this debate personal when it isn't. I'm not nearly as young as you want to think I am, and setting yourself up as "mature" is a fairly lame thing to do, especially in light of your recent childish posts.

 

People get blacklisted for a reason. The worst of them because they are jerks. Bad players may improve, if given a chance, or they may not. I once had to patiently explain to a Druid in WoW (which was my main class) why it was not a good thing to queue as a healer in tank spec/gear. That's stupid that you just can't fix with a baseball bat.

 

What you want is for bad players to be able to run content. But bad players fail content unless the content gets tuned to them. The random groups ARE the worst way to make a group, and making those groups the standard for the game is a very bad thing.

 

We could have tools that were game-wide that anyone could see from anywhere, flagging ourselves for the content we want to run, listing our spec. Our current tool is so counter-intuitive that no one uses it very much. Some people don't even know it exists. A stand-alone tool could solve the problem without having to go to the extremes of cross-server random crap.

 

But... As we have witnessed here, some people will not support such a tool, even if it gets them groups, because the groups aren't really what they want. And I take criticism for saying that some people want an "IWIN" button..?

 

I was right all along...

 

... so I see you still have not looked into how WoW currently does their LFD and the new plans to improve upon it.

 

I also see the only thing you've offered is a game-wide system, yet you've spent the last 20 pages arguing against ANYTHING cross-server(now I'm sure you will say you never said no cross-server, you said no RANDOM cross-server, which everyone here will know is compelte b.s. and you will have less credibility than you do now)

 

What we witnessed is you are clearly a kid who just wants to have a gear score no one else except other people who play as much as you do can approach.

 

and you are wrong - there may be a few ppl(just like there are a few ppl who dont want lfd) who would not support a tool like you describe - the bottom line is this - if there is a tool that allows casual/regular players access to content without having to sit around forever and spam a channel for it - it would be supported.

 

The tool WoW is using right now(ability to add friends for future grouping etc.) is a good one.

 

sorry you hate it

Edited February 15, 2012 by Kaelshi

[PjPablo]

The fallacy in your arguments is all of the personal assumptions that you make. You want to make this debate personal when it isn't. I'm not nearly as young as you want to think I am, and setting yourself up as "mature" is a fairly lame thing to do, especially in light of your recent childish posts.

 

People get blacklisted for a reason. The worst of them because they are jerks. Bad players may improve, if given a chance, or they may not. I once had to patiently explain to a Druid in WoW (which was my main class) why it was not a good thing to queue as a healer in tank spec/gear. That's stupid that you just can't fix with a baseball bat.

 

What you want is for bad players to be able to run content. But bad players fail content unless the content gets tuned to them. The random groups ARE the worst way to make a group, and making those groups the standard for the game is a very bad thing.

 

We could have tools that were game-wide that anyone could see from anywhere, flagging ourselves for the content we want to run, listing our spec. Our current tool is so counter-intuitive that no one uses it very much. Some people don't even know it exists. A stand-alone tool could solve the problem without having to go to the extremes of cross-server random crap.

 

But... As we have witnessed here, some people will not support such a tool, even if it gets them groups, because the groups aren't really what they want. And I take criticism for saying that some people want an "IWIN" button..?

 

I was right all along...

 

I thought you were going to run some FPs? Oh wait...you are probably alt-tabbing while you spam general for a group. Keep trying!!! You'll get one eventually.

[darkcerb]

But... As we have witnessed here, some people will not support such a tool, even if it gets them groups, because the groups aren't really what they want. And I take criticism for saying that some people want an "IWIN" button..?

 

I was right all along...

 

I'm sorry but I have to laugh, I had a feeling that was your ultimate "ploy"

 

Go ahead and give us your alternative now that you've had your fun.

 

I'm curious.

 

You proved nothing about others but everything they were saying about you, and you continue to with every post.

 

Weren't you leaving? to do flashpoints I believe was your exact quote. Don't let us stop you if you can that easily get groups, and don't let an optional tool stop you either.

 

Really we should be thanking you, your doing more for our side then our arguments.

Edited February 15, 2012 by darkcerb

[yodimaster]

I was running heroics in guild for quite some time after that without nerfs, got a link to those claims?

 

Besides anything the hard content is still there, raids hard mode raids and here a level above. Nightmare mode.

 

That's what I don't understand about your argument, unless you just want an extra layer of gear between you and the un-washed masses?

 

All that changes is the volume of groups and what bioware does with that data is outside the scope of this thread.

 

 

Nightmare modes is a joke and I actually hate gear dependent games the only reason im here on ToR is to finish up the story about Revan and play with friends!

[darkcerb]

... so I see you still have not looked into how WoW currently does their LFD and the new plans to improve upon it.

 

I also see the only thing you've offered is a game-wide system, yet you've spent the last 20 pages arguing against ANYTHING cross-server(now I'm sure you will say you never said no cross-server, you said no RANDOM cross-server, which everyone here will know is compelte b.s. and you will have less credibility than you do now)

 

What we witnessed is you are clearly a kid who just wants to have a gear score no one else except other people who play as much as you do can approach.

 

and you are wrong - there may be a few ppl(just like there are a few ppl who dont want lfd) who would not support a tool like you describe - the bottom line is this - if there is a tool that allows casual/regular players access to content without having to sit around forever and spam a channel for it - it would be supported.

 

The tool WoW is using right now(ability to add friends for future grouping etc.) is a good one.

 

sorry you hate it

 

Indeed as another has said wow's tool atm is closing the server gap more and more with each iteration bringing us closer to a seamless joining of an entire section of a games community I.e US Euro Oceanic.

 

Something that seems to me to be the epitome of the "community" argument and solving any other debate...but what do I know I'm not afraid of the cross server system.

[souloferdrick]

It's not that I can't find a group. It's that it takes long enough to find these groups that it's not worth my time; Add in that if someone has a connection issue, or an emergency and has to log off, it's a major inconvenience.

 

An emergency log off or connection problem doesn't sound like a developer issue or something that's a concern for the player base at large. Sounds like a ferroz chose bad group mates problem which would make it ferroz' problem.

[Taroen]

... so I see you still have not looked into how WoW currently does their LFD and the new plans to improve upon it.

 

I also see the only thing you've offered is a game-wide system, yet you've spent the last 20 pages arguing against ANYTHING cross-server(now I'm sure you will say you never said no cross-server, you said no RANDOM cross-server, which everyone here will know is compelte b.s. and you will have less credibility than you do now)

 

What we witnessed is you are clearly a kid who just wants to have a gear score no one else except other people who play as much as you do can approach.

 

and you are wrong - there may be a few ppl(just like there are a few ppl who dont want lfd) who would not support a tool like you describe - the bottom line is this - if there is a tool that allows casual/regular players access to content without having to sit around forever and spam a channel for it - it would be supported.

 

The tool WoW is using right now(ability to add friends for future grouping etc.) is a good one.

 

sorry you hate it

 

Dude your posts are the picture of maturity... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

OMG...

 

How you can even bother trying to preen yourself as overly mature after some of the insanely childish posts you've made is beyond me.

 

The bottom line is this... You were wrong. People in this thread have already said that the grouping was not what they were after. Those people want cross-server random even if no one has trouble getting groups.

 

And I would never support cross-server OR random for many reasons that I have laid out several times.

[Kyrandis]

Remove player reputation! Brilliant play Watson!

 

In a perfect socialist world where everyone is optimistic and fights for each other it would be great.

 

Unfortunately..this thing...human nature.

 

See the thing of it is this, the server community acts as a sort of police. It causes people like me to play nice. Because knowing that if I act like a douche-bag, someone is going to go rampant in General. This would make my guild look back as a whole, myself as well, and make it difficult getting a group. In all the dungeons I did in wow, I never once saw the same person more than twice. Even if I did, they didn't remember it and neither did I.

 

It also causes more leaving, and RAGE AT GROUP then leave. Even with a 15 minute deserter people will leave. I never had a problem with this until I q'd with my friend who was a bad healer. And you would be correct if you guessed how many well geared tanks quit because he couldn't keep up the heals.

[darkcerb]

Dude your posts are the picture of maturity... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

OMG...

 

How you can even bother trying to preen yourself as overly mature after some of the insanely childish posts you've made is beyond me.

 

The bottom line is this... You were wrong. People in this thread have already said that the grouping was not what they were after. Those people want cross-server random even if no one has trouble getting groups.

 

And I would never support cross-server OR random for many reasons that I have laid out several times.

 

Right back at you.

 

And you have yet to lay out any reasons, can you stop with the inflamatory posts? and start with logical ones? that's be a nice change of pace from the norm for you.

[Senatsu]

So what about this?

 

Step 1) Set yourself as LFG for whatever (heroics, FPS etc) and state your role and class (well the UI can just show your class).

 

Step 2a) Look at the list and pick people and invite them. Can send them tells before hand if you like.

or

Step 2b) Hit the random button and get 3 random people.

 

Step 3) kill stuff.

 

Note: A check box to show just your server or all servers on the list.

 

This seems to have options for everyone, yes?

 

Figured I'd bump this in again as it was completely ignored. I didn't like the cross-server thing, but the rest was a very good suggestion to such a system.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Senatsu

[Taroen]

I thought you were going to run some FPs? Oh wait...you are probably alt-tabbing while you spam general for a group. Keep trying!!! You'll get one eventually.

 

Actually, I got sucked back into the forums... lol..

 

I hate to admit that, but it's true. *sigh*

[harpuax]

Figured I'd bump this in again as it was completely ignored.

 

Thanks, seems people would rather bicker over the problems than present solutions.

[darkcerb]

Remove player reputation! Brilliant play Watson!

 

In a perfect socialist world where everyone is optimistic and fights for each other it would be great.

 

Unfortunately..this thing...human nature.

 

See the thing of it is this, the server community acts as a sort of police. It causes people like me to play nice. Because knowing that if I act like a douche-bag, someone is going to go rampant in General. This would make my guild look back as a whole, myself as well, and make it difficult getting a group. In all the dungeons I did in wow, I never once saw the same person more than twice. Even if I did, they didn't remember it and neither did I.

 

It also causes more leaving, and RAGE AT GROUP then leave. Even with a 15 minute deserter people will leave. I never had a problem with this until I q'd with my friend who was a bad healer. And you would be correct if you guessed how many well geared tanks quit because he couldn't keep up the heals.

 

Except the answer to your problems is in the cards, and your failing to see the other side.

 

How bad was your friend? was it possible to complete the run? If not how shocked can you really be when people leave and do you actually expect same server people not to bail in such a case?

[Taroen]

Right back at you.

 

And you have yet to lay out any reasons, can you stop with the inflamatory posts? and start with logical ones? that's be a nice change of pace from the norm for you.

 

You're projecting here.

 

I've laid out many reasons. You just keep ingoring them so you can knock down the strawman arguments that you created in your head.

[MalignX]

All this ranting about LFG.

 

1) It's coming. Accept that.

2) They've already stated they're looking into Cross-Server. So it's not like there is absolutely no chance of it being implemented. That's delusional.

 

So instead of ranting that they should never allow Cross-Server. How about discussing how it could be more appealing to everyone. The whole "I don't like it" doesn't work. The "it's the sole cause of gaming nerfing" or "it directly destroys community" are tired as well. So unless you can add something constructive to the discussion, besides that you hate it and it's a gamekillingdoomsdaydevice, why even bother posting? All of you people that love the game now and have no problem finding groups sure spend a lot of time here on the forums. Which is strange to me, only in the sense that I didn't even bother looking at the forums until I ran into the godawful wall of Spamming LFG for Hours, just to run Flash Points. When LFG comes, I'll disappear back into the game.

 

And really, since no one here has any direct effect on what is or isn't going to happen, what's with all the hate? I'm as big a #$%hole as the next guy and it even mystifies me.

 

Do I want a Cross-Server LFG tool? Sure do. Am I interested in a compromise that does not include it in anyway shape or form? Absolutely not. So anything arguing against it is just going to fall on deaf ears. But, if you want to offer productive solutions, without resorting to "It's for lazy, casual, bads, gimmes, whatevers", awesome lets hear it. Otherwise we can play this stonewall, fingers in our ears game too.

 

Edit: If you have already offered productive ideas, sorry I missed them amongst all the ragevomit.

Edited February 15, 2012 by MalignX

[Senatsu]

Thanks, seems people would rather bicker over the problems than present solutions.

 

Yeah, I have a feeling that is the entire purpose of this thread at this point. Argue just for the sake of arguing.

[ferroz]

The fallacy in your arguments is all of the personal assumptions that you make.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

I once had to patiently explain to a Druid in WoW (which was my main class) why it was not a good thing to queue as a healer in tank spec/gear. That's stupid that you just can't fix with a baseball bat.

I did something like that once. I wound up on his friends list, and wound up inviting him to raids (he turnout to be a pretty good tank).

 

 

But... As we have witnessed here, some people will not support such a tool, even if it gets them groups, because the groups aren't really what they want. And I take criticism for saying that some people want an "IWIN" button..?

Yes, you catch flack for that... because that's not what people are asking for.

 

I don't want an I win button.

 

I want to be able to do random pugs, because I like doing random pugs. I've done them since EQ. I especially liked being able to drag people through content they never though they could do. One of the perks of being a top-notch puller/CC (bard) in that game.

 

I want a full suite of cross server tools; I want to be able to play with random people and add them to my friends list. I want to be able to run flashpoints with friends (both RL and in game) who play on other servers. I want the battletag system that blizzard is working on as a start, with new, innovative features piled on top.

 

So your non-random same server grouping method doesn't meet what I'd prefer...

 

EDIT: I notice you're not even pretending to defend your "LFFP = nerfed content" point... I'll take that as an admission that you concede that this isn't the case.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[darkcerb]

Thanks, seems people would rather bicker over the problems than present solutions.

 

cross server is a solution.

 

cross server with an option to search just your own is a solution.

 

Apparently putting forward solutions doesn't end the debate, turns out all we can do is argue for our own and wait and see which bioware goes with.