Punish PPL leaving WZ - FAIL idea.

[Kelticfury]

Everybody's read Richard Dawkins, the Pope has probably read his stuff by now.

 

Instead of a 'LOL @ the mythology - BUT, here's what I think on your points (agree/disagree)' you just have a psuedo-elitist dig and contributed nothing. Thanks for stopping by.

 

Kiz kiz,

 

x

 

No, I actually did exactly what I said, and stopped reading after the bible quote. Sorry that this has gotten your knickers in a twist, but not everything is going to go according to how you want it to.

 

Now as far as why i even clicked on this thread, I agree, it is a failure of an idea to punish people for leaving warzones at this point in time. Just the other day i left midmatch because 3 people from the same guild severely crippled any chance of even holding our own in the wz when they all went stealth and afk'd.

 

Other than that scenario the only time I leave a wz is when I have done the same wz too many times in a row, and I bail out before the match starts.

 

So while I can agree with your sentiment I think trying to equate the people who want to punish others with religious fanatics is pretty fail.

[MPagano]

I'm all for punishing deserters. However, us with not so high-end-PCs have in more than one occasion been trapped in the spawn zone when entering a Warzone match that has already started due to the WZ taking a long time to load, and thus got insta-kicked before we could actually enter the game. Punishing us as "deserters" for such occasions is completely unfair.

 

My suggestion would be to:

 

A) either prolong the time someone can stay in the spawn zone when entering in mid-game, so that we can actually manage to join in even if it takes a few moments more for the WZ to load,

 

or B) at least add a notification on the "JOIN WARZONE" pop-up saying that the Warzone you're about to enter has already started 5-6 mins ago when that's the case. That way, we can opt not to join and thus avoid getting trapped and insta-kicked.

 

 

Just my 2 cens.

 

I also fully support the idea for individual objective rewards mentioned above. Scoring in Hutball = Valor, defending a node in Alderaan = Valor, etc. The fact that actually trying to win a WZ nets no rewards whatsoever (other than one or two medals) should be looked into.

 

I know others have already mentioned similar points in this thread, but I'm quoting yours because it's the most recent. I think these are excellent points. I should clarify that my stance on this is NOT in any way to punish players who are victim to any sort of system latency/performance issue.

 

And again, Blizzard has already achieved this solution. It's not a question of feasibility. I'm not sure what the question is. It's a clear issue with a clear solution. Let's improve the game for everyone.

[goxwerd]

OP basically has no points..

 

 

15 min isn't going to hurt casuals.. It will make them not leave.. And tbh its only 15 min.. That is about as long as the game would take to finish anyways...

 

 

Almost all the real reasons to not have a deserter i see are the fact you can get it without leaving the game.. File that under BW fix your game..

 

 

Also it is a large assumption that SW TOR is non mmo playing casuals.. Maybe the levelers but the pvpers for the most part are not new to the genre.

 

Dont mean to be too rude but the quality of play will go up if people cannot leave and requeue all i see are serial quitters wanting to still be able to do it.. thinking they are not impacting the game at all..

[TheRFC]

But because idiots like you

 

 

Again, please l2Read.

 

At no point at all have I advocated quitting now said, nor implied I do it myself.

 

Thanks for stopping by

[ViperI]

This is great. However, you can't be trying to say that this is the norm. Many, many warzones find the losing team quitting soon after the first few nodes/points/etc. If people have and abuse the option, it needs to be reviewed and amended. Period.

 

And to your earlier post, those of us who support a deserter buff are not necessarily spiteful. I know I'm not. I've left a number of warzones because I can requeue shortly after. Try not to reduce a point of opposition down to some rabid and emotional hissy fit.

 

The points I make are lucid, objective, and focus on the big picture and ultimately the benefit of the game experience for the most players. You've offered a single annecdote contrary to my general case and made a gross generalizaton about anyone who thinks differently from you. Kudos.

 

Never did I try to say my experience was the norm, I merely responded with my experience because you claimed that there was "no" situation where you could "knuckledown" and pull out a win after being down early. You didn't state it as a "general case", you made an emphatic statement. I only needed a single instance to the contrary to disprove your previous statement. If you're now going to revise your statement to be something more general, fine, I'll agree with you. It is unlikely to come back from an early deficit, especially when playing with random pugs who forsake teamwork and basic strategy.

[TheRFC]

No, I actually did exactly what I said, and stopped reading after the bible quote. Sorry that this has -

 

 

This is when I stopped reading. Because you're massively boring me.

 

'Mmm'kthxbia'?

 

x

[yukirshiro]

To summarize the OP's argument:

 

Winning or losing doesn't matter. Therefore people should be able to leave early if they're losing so they can try to find a winning game! Because it does - I mean, doesn't - matter. I mean, wait, what?

 

Great logic there.

[MPagano]

Never did I try to say my experience was the norm, I merely responded with my experience because you claimed that there was "no" situation where you could "knuckledown" and pull out a win after being down early. You didn't state it as a "general case", you made an emphatic statement. I only needed a single instance to the contrary to disprove your previous statement. If you're now going to revise your statement to be something more general, fine, I'll agree with you. It is unlikely to come back from an early deficit, especially when playing with random pugs who forsake teamwork and basic strategy.

 

I do apologize. I so easily forget the type of person with which I interact on the forums. I will be more careful next time as to make clear that by saying "there's no comback situation anymore" I really mean "there's rarely a comback situation anymore".

 

Also, when I say I'll be back in a minute, it might be 2 or 3.

[TheRFC]

To summarize the OP's argument:

 

Winning or losing doesn't matter. Therefore people should be able to leave early if they're losing so they can try to find a winning game! Because it does - I mean, doesn't - matter. I mean, wait, what?

 

Great logic there.

 

 

1 - I just went on a 200 WZ win-streak. I scored 6 goals in every Huttball match and got 500K damage every game WHILST playing the objective. Don't believe me? Too bad ... no way of checking it.

 

2 - I camped in spawn the last game. The rest of my team busted their guts for the win. I got rewarded exactly the same as they did yet contributed nothing and may have detracted from the team by making them play w/ one man down the whole time.

 

3 - I keep getting thrown in w/ awful players but I always focus on the objective when no one else seems to care. I'm normally on the losing side yet everyone else is rewarded the same as me even if they did nothing.

 

 

I hope you are beginning to see the logic and read between the lines. Beyond this, I've no interest in educating you.

[Enduretwentytwo]

I really hope you're purposely trolling me ... no one can seriously be this thick.

 

Again, when did I say 'do what you want, it's only a game!'

 

Firstly, if we're being perfectly honest, it IS only a game and you're basing a person's morality on whether they stay in a SWTOR WZ. So everyone who stays in are necessarily a 'decent person' then? I'd have fun with you arguing semantics but it really doesn't feel fulfilling if you actually do have the intellectual equivalency of a kashu nut, as is suggested by your posts so far.

 

My point WAS that if you start punishing people for leaving, they won't leave. They'll just stay and AFK ---> instead of them leaving and someone else who may want to play coming in you'll just be stuck with 2-3 or maybe more AFKers.

 

If they really want to go, LET THEM GO! This isn't Auschwitz!

 

Your suggestion? Report them. On Alderaan and VS there are so many ways that you can get around even being noticed for AFKing. Huttball is easier because most parts of the map are in use so you spot most AFKers at the sides just outside the spawn else they'll get dragged into the action. In VS - just don't move along with the action when a door gets taken. Who'd be keeping tabs? Alderaan? There are PLENTY of places. Am I meant to be fighting people AND scouring the map to make sure no-one is AFKing?

 

Engage brain, THEN type.

 

I don't really agree with your premise that adding restrictions to leaving WZ's will increase AFKing? The two activities are committed for different reasons. The reason Warzone quitting is happening is because gear is largely gained through the Dailies and Weeklies. People leave, because winning is the only important part. AFKing through the warzone really does little to help a player advance in gear. Yes they accumulate Valor for the game, but it is far less compared to if they were actually participating, since valor is tied in to medals earned and MVP votes.

 

In comparison: the Daily (winning 3 games) is a minimum of 3 games played = 60 minutes. While getting enough WZ commendations to get a bag while AFKing = 20 games (40 WZ tokens a game) or 400 mins.

 

If a player leaves a WZ and suffers a 15 minute debuff, this would equal the time they would have spent playing through the full warzone. The reason they wouldn't want to AFK through the Warzone is because the Valor gain would be insignificant, forcing them to participate for more valor or spend the next 15 minutes doing something else more productive outside of PVP.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Enduretwentytwo

[EternalFinality]

Firstly, if we're being perfectly honest, it IS only a game and you're basing a person's morality on whether they stay in a SWTOR WZ. So everyone who stays in are necessarily a 'decent person' then? I'd have fun with you arguing semantics but it really doesn't feel fulfilling if you actually do have the intellectual equivalency of a kashu nut, as is suggested by your posts so far.

 

The old saying "Character is how you act when no one is watching" can be simply adapted in our internet age to "Character is how you act when there are no consequences to your actions."

 

Yes, how you act online in a video game speaks to your character, and yours is rotten.

[KraithFjorn]

There should indubitably be a penalty for leaving warzones early.

 

However, not before Bioware addresses why quitting warzones is such an issue in the first place. Change the daily/weekly, and a quitters penalty will be justifiable. Otherwise, the OP has my support.

[Kilgoress]

Ranting OP followed by Straw Man arguments and Ad Hominem as justification, oh my.

[TheRFC]

OP basically has no points..

 

 

15 min isn't going to hurt casuals.. It will make them not leave.. And tbh its only 15 min.. That is about as long as the game would take to finish anyways...

 

 

Almost all the real reasons to not have a deserter i see are the fact you can get it without leaving the game.. File that under BW fix your game..

 

 

Also it is a large assumption that SW TOR is non mmo playing casuals.. Maybe the levelers but the pvpers for the most part are not new to the genre.

 

Dont mean to be too rude but the quality of play will go up if people cannot leave and requeue all i see are serial quitters wanting to still be able to do it.. thinking they are not impacting the game at all..

 

 

OP basically has no points..

 

 

15 min isn't going to hurt casuals.. It will make them not leave.. And tbh its only 15 min.. That is about as long as the game would take to finish anyways...

 

 

Almost all the real reasons to not have a deserter i see are the fact you can get it without leaving the game.. File that under BW fix your game..

 

 

Also it is a large assumption that SW TOR is non mmo playing casuals.. Maybe the levelers but the pvpers for the most part are not new to the genre.

 

Dont mean to be too rude but the quality of play will go up if people cannot leave and requeue all i see are serial quitters wanting to still be able to do it.. thinking they are not impacting the game at all..

 

 

 

1 - THIS thread wasn't about suggesting improvements, I'm going to do that in a future thread maybe tonight. This was merely pointing out that a debuff is going to hurt the game.

 

2- Either this game has a lot of non mmo playing casuals or the general standard for mmo 'vets' is appauling. Sentinel/ Mara is a pretty popular class but arguably the hardest by far to play. How many times do you get leapt at by a Sen/ Mara and not given a free-kill? If you're a good DPS you should be getting 300-400+K damage each match. How many times do you see the top double the damage scores of the second highest? Same w/ healing. How many times do you see people STILL run to take the middle turret on Alderaan off spawn. 'But in COD you want the B flag!'

 

So yeah, either;

 

- This is full of casuals, or

- The players attracted to mmos in general completely suck at games because this is an excrutiatingly easy one to begin with.

[skyflash]

I don't really agree with your premise that adding restrictions to leaving WZ's will increase AFKing? The two activities are committed for different reasons. The reason Warzone quitting is happening is because gear is largely gained through the Dailies and Weeklies. People leave, because winning is the only important part. AFKing through the warzone really does little to help a player advance in gear. Yes they accumulate Valor for the game, but it is far less compared to if they were actually participating, since valor is tied in to medals earned and MVP votes.

 

In comparison: the Daily (winning 3 games) is a minimum of 3 games played = 60 minutes. While getting enough WZ commendations to get a bag while AFKing = 20 games (40 WZ tokens a game) or 400 hrs.

 

If a player leaves a WZ and suffers a 15 minute debuff, this would equal the time they would have spent playing through the full warzone. The reason they wouldn't want to AFK through the Warzone is because the Valor gain would be insignificant, forcing them to participate for more valor or spend the next 15 minutes doing something else more productive outside of PVP.

 

QFT!

 

Additionally, AFKers can easily be punished the same as leavers, plenty of other games do it perfectly.

[TheRFC]

I don't really agree with your premise that adding restrictions to leaving WZ's will increase AFKing? The two activities are committed for different reasons.

 

 

Ok, well the 10-49 bracket people will AFK more because it's free experience.

 

In the L50 bracket, you're working on the assumption that someone would quit when their team is losing from a few seconds in?

 

Supposing you're fighting in Alderaan and both teams have a turret each and the enemy team has the side turret. You're both battling to gain control of the OTHER side turret. This can go on for minutes at a time. Suddenly they manage to take it a fair amount of time into the match. On Alderaan, the side turrets are SO difficult to take because of the insta-spawn mechanism.

 

So people think ... meh, probably lost it so I'm going to AFK because doing that will be quicker than getting a debuff by quitting, and they can requeue immediately after this match is lost.

 

Obviously it ISN'T a guarenteed loss but it is when people just start AFKing instead of trying to wrest a point back from the enemy.

[skyflash]

So people think ... meh, probably lost it so I'm going to AFK because doing that will be quicker than getting a debuff by quitting, and they can requeue immediately after this match is lost.

 

So they think wrong because they get a 30 minute debuff for AFKing, so they will definitely NOT requeue anytime soon. Hello AFK voting.

[TheRFC]

Ranting OP followed by Straw Man arguments and Ad Hominem as justification, oh my.

 

 

Cool.

 

'Ranting' how ... ?

 

Straw Man arguments for ... ? Do you even know what I'm supporting/ denouncing as a good/ bad idea?

 

I'll counter 'Ad Hominem' with this - 'οὐκ ἔστι λέουσι καὶ ἀνδράσιν ὅρκια πιστά' - part of my personal favourite dialogue from Homer's Iliad. Powerful and inspiring, espousing the heart of the warrior.

 

As we both know, though, splicing in a dead language doesn't justify our points and it never gets us laid. Quick tip quicky of the day - try getting them drunk instead, bro-skii

 

I'm more than happy to address any points you have when you find them

[Tyrias]

So they think wrong because they get a 30 minute debuff for AFKing, so they will definitely NOT requeue anytime soon. Hello AFK voting.

 

Oooo, hello again Skyflash. Same disagreement, different thread. Lol!

 

Afk voting doesn't work. Or, it sort of works. But it also gets abused to kick people who do nothing wrong, but are just bad players.

 

When players have any ability to negatively affect the game (Leaving prematurely, from your point of view), they will use it if it suits them. Giving people power not only over the game, but also over other people will have exactly the same results, only on a magnified scale.

[TheRFC]

So they think wrong because they get a 30 minute debuff for AFKing, so they will definitely NOT requeue anytime soon. Hello AFK voting.

 

 

A voting system could be abused, though. Instead, make the players 'work' to gain a reward and incentivise them to do certain team-orientated actions.

[Kyrandis]

So they think wrong because they get a 30 minute debuff for AFKing, so they will definitely NOT requeue anytime soon. Hello AFK voting.

 

My Premades are going to abuse the ever living **** out of this.

 

Oh look, me and my 6 friends "magically" got into the same match because we queued at the same time. WHAT A COINCIDENCE.

 

Hey guys...LOL I got a great idea. Lets AFK votekick this random so he can't re-queue for 30 minutes....HAHAHAH.

[AetherMcLoud]

I agree. Don't punish people for leaving. Incent them to stay instead.

[TheRFC]

Oooo, hello again Skyflash. Same disagreement, different thread. Lol!

 

Afk voting doesn't work. Or, it sort of works. But it also gets abused to kick people who do nothing wrong, but are just bad players.

 

When players have any ability to negatively affect the game (Leaving prematurely, from your point of view), they will use it if it suits them. Giving people power not only over the game, but also over other people will have exactly the same results, only on a magnified scale.

 

 

Agreed that it will be abused.

 

It's good that he wishes to address the AFK issue rather than implement a 30 min debuff, but there's a much simpler solution.

[TheRFC]

My Premades are going to abuse the ever living **** out of this.

 

Oh look, me and my 6 friends "magically" got into the same match because we queued at the same time. WHAT A COINCIDENCE.

 

Hey guys...LOL I got a great idea. Lets AFK votekick this random so he can't re-queue for 30 minutes....HAHAHAH.

 

 

Annnnd there we go ... haha!

 

This is why we can't have an AFK-Kick system

[Obbu]

15 min debuff is about spot on.

 

its about the length of one warzone - so if you bail, you lose one warzone's worth of time.

 

Its not a punishment, it is a soft-deterrent.

 

If RL happens, people are OK with losing 15 minutes of pvp time.

 

It ensures that you dont have people who repeatedly grief other players by queuing and then leaving immediately.

 

For people who arent actively 'gaming' the system, it presents no negative connotations.