Done With SWTOR PvP: Absolutely Sick Of It.

[Briljin]

I'm sure a company whose previous mmo couldn't handle persistant worlds...

 

Can you remind me what was BWs previous MMO was again? Funny how you give them a complete pass while having no previous MMO experience but think that Arena Net can not improve upon the limitations of their previous game.

 

Not taking a shot at BW, I just found your logic (or lack of) interesting.

[BBCHiyde]

Everytime I draw Huttball, I want to stab myself in the eye with a sharp object. Every time I pick up my Ilum daily, I want to strangle puppies. And every time I get force charged/rooted/knocked off the bridge in Voidstar, I want to tear off my shirt, grab my supple manboobs and shriek.

 

 

Best paragraph I've ever read on an MMO Forum. Stop playing video games and go write for a living. lol

 

-H

[McVade]

Alright, to the OP: After all that (and there were a lot of good points) your final solution was to keep playing the game, just other parts of it? Haha, whew boy, you sure showed them! "I'm so mad at you I'm going to play... operations in your game." Anti-climactic!

 

Heh. I'm sure I put the fear of God into them.

 

In all seriousness though, if people stop PvPing, the suits at EA start asking Gabe questions. "We're devoting X money to the PvP department, but only Y% of our player base actually participates in it. Y'know, I think we can get by on half your staff. Start laying some people off, okay?" Or: "Gabe, we've decided that PvP needs a fresh perspective. Thanks for your efforts, however. Feel free to call us for a reference and good luck on the job hunt."

 

In its own way, it's in Gabe's best interest to try and fix his system even if it's just causing nonparticipation in PvP rather than loss of subscription.

Edited February 13, 2012 by McVade

[Butki]

Did you really expect anything good to come out of BW putting ex-Mythic people on SWTOR?

[AngryBuddhist]

You understand that the resolve system is nothing more than UI right? It's just the visibility of your diminishing returns from CC.

 

 

Finally a Math guy. Resolve is DR. Just a goofy way of portraying it. And it is broke.

[AJMTL]

Hey guess what? I have fun with the PVP TOR has, know why? Cuz I do it off and on, didn't come to this game for the PVP, came for the PVE, ya know ,what this game was pretty much designed around? You came here for the PVP you're the idiot and I have no sympathy for you.

 

GitDaFaukOut the PvP forum then troll.

Edited February 13, 2012 by AJMTL

[McVade]

McVade's an *** clown that does nothing but whine. Go check the Sentinel forums and that's all you hear from him.

 

Just another bad player blaming everything on the devs.

 

Eh, he has a point. I owned my earlier complaints about the Sentinel class. They were wrong and misinformed. The sentinel is a late bloomer that is more gear dependent than I'd like, but now that I got the gear, I have no complaints. It also requires more keybindings than most classes but once you learn them, you do get cake from the enrichment center.

 

As I said, Class Balance in this game - in straight up PvP - is actually really good. It buries WoW. Depending on the season, you see a particular class, you just know you're not going to win barring a miracle.

 

The complaints I do have are not really related to skill, but design. All the skill in the world isn't going to turn my pug into a premade, nor make my computer run Ilum smoothly, for example.

Edited February 13, 2012 by McVade

[Kryptorchid]

Finally a Math guy. Resolve is DR. Just a goofy way of portraying it. And it is broke.

 

It is a Binary-Diminishing Return, so I can see how people can perceive it as not being one. You are either susceptible or your are 100% diminished to CC.

 

Honestly I think Resolve needs to fill based on the time you spent in CC and breaks when you have exceeded that time, and then you become immune to all CC effects for CC'd Time X 3.

[EternalFinality]

Finally a Math guy. Resolve is DR. Just a goofy way of portraying it. And it is broke.

 

Diminishing returns indicates a reduced benefit from subsequent applications. An exponentially decaying curve of CC duration, for example.

 

That is NOT what resolve is. It is NOT diminishing returns. Graph the duration as a % of applied CC's and knockbacks and there is no curve to the graph. It's 100% straight line then drops to 0%.

Edited February 13, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Kryptorchid]

Diminishing returns indicates a reduced benefit from subsequent applications. An exponentially decaying curve of CC duration, for example.

 

That is NOT what resolve is. It is NOT diminishing returns.

 

See my above post. Resolve is a BINARY diminishing return system.

[skorpius]

Hey all,

 

As Anakin Skywalker apparently reached his shatterpoint when he gave Samuel L. Jackson an ambitious manicure... I, too, have reached my shatterpoint. Unfortunately, rather than become a Darth, I've decided instead to go into exile and wait for my Last Hope for good PvP in an MMO environment: Guild Wars 2.

 

I won't go into a huge thing here on why I've come to this point. Let me just say one thing that it wasn't: Class Balance. The class balance in this game is *remarkably* good, and I'm saying this as a Jedi Sentinel, one of the hardest classes to play and very few make a point that it's on the OP end. Class Balance is not SWTORs problem: in fact, it's one of the best balanced MMOs I've ever played.

 

Here's my Not So Comprehensive list of issues that tempted me on more than one occasion to put my fist through my monitor.

 

Premade vs. Pugs. Y'know, I feel I've made this argument for years, because I have. From WoW, to WAR, to Rift to here. And guess what? Blizzard figured it out. Trion figured it out. Hell, even EA Mythic figured it out. Of course, EA Mythic was fashionably late to the party, but as they say... better late than never. So why, 4 years later, am I making this argument still in an MMO? Why the heck is my team with 8 people with an average expertise rating of 80, with no healers and a tank who doesn't have Guard bound get thrown up against 4 Champion+ geared players on Skype? These four could take all eight of us out without even needing the other half of their team. Haven't we learned something yet? "Just roll with your own premade." No. Three other battlemasters should not be required to enjoy PvP in this game. As I said, every other company figured it out. So, what's the malfunction here, Bioware?

 

CC. Have you learned nothing from Warhammer? Here's something I discovered playing my Ironbreaker in your other game: People don't like being knocked into lava with a retardedly overpowered knockback. It's NOT heroic. It's too hard to avoid (never found a shortage of people to knockback in a huge way if the battle's being fought even in the near vicinity of lava/ledge) and most importantly, not everyone can do it. How can you design a map like Huttball and have classes in the game who do not have Pulls/Pushes or fire-and-forget stuns? Hell, some classes (like mine) lack all of those. Moreover, with your credio that: "you're the hero" - let me tell you, the life of a melee ping pong ball isn't as heroic as it sounds.

 

"Learn to position yourself." Yeah, right. Tell that to the people I stun on my Sith Juggernaut alt. That way, I get to move into whatever position I need to be in order to screw you. Trust me, with a knockback as far as I got, the only place you can position yourself where I won't find a way to screw you is on Azeroth. If there's a trap/ledge/pit/STD anywhere within EYESIGHT, you are getting it.

 

Or hell, my personal favorite: jump someone on the bridge, immobilize for 3 seconds, and then push to order. I don't care how pro you are - your man parts are going to be slow roasting in the Voidstar reactor and that's all there is to it.

 

"Learn to use the Resolve system." Heh, so glad you mentioned it.

 

Resolve: Honestly, if I were to name the worst mechanic in any PvP game I have played going back to Pong, this has got to be it. So this is the theory: You get hit by 3-4 CCs, then you're immune to them for 18-20 seconds. Here's the thing though: By the time you get hit by this many CCs, the enemies you are currently facing don't have them anymore. So Resolve is useless in small scale PvP. Considering that it also doesn't work on Immobilize effects, it's conceivable for you to STILL be CCed, even while your immune to CC. Lolwut?

 

Besides, what the hell good does this mechanic do in maps like Huttball where all it takes is one CC to knock you out of the action? By the time you get back into it (assuming you weren't stunned on acid or knocked into fire), not only is the situation you could have helped in probably over, but you've already lost all the Resolve you built up from that knockback. So, guess what, it just happens again! Why they've opted for a PvP system that utilizes this rather than Diminishing Returns, where you get a benefit immediately after the first time you're hit, I'll never know. This is just an example of developers trying to get too clever and one-up tried and true methods that actually promote fun gameplay.

 

Ilum: Won't get into a big thing here, but I honestly can't say I've seen a worse designed World PvP mechanic than this. Whether its game performance slowing to that of a PowerPoint Presentation if more than 50 players are on the screen at the same time, the sheer uselessness of melee classes in large scale PvP warfare, or the absolute ludicrous population imbalance on most servers, or the sheer redundancy of flipping points in a non-linear order, or the numerous bugs (stuck exploits still tons of fun), or the need for me to spam my class buff every cooldown to make sure I get credit for kills my ops does, or the crate spawn rates during downtime, or the... yeah, I can do this all day. Ilum every day is what Wintergrasp was on its worst... and Wintergrasp wasn't very good either.

 

Bag System/Random Loot. Kudos for finally getting your heads out of your asses last patch for Champion bags. Trust me: what's a good idea for that's also a good idea for Battlemaster bags. Smarten up, Bioware.

 

After a month of dealing with all of these mechanics, I've just reached my wits end. Everytime I draw Huttball, I want to stab myself in the eye with a sharp object. Every time I pick up my Ilum daily, I want to strangle puppies. And every time I get force charged/rooted/knocked off the bridge in Voidstar, I want to tear off my shirt, grab my supple manboobs and shriek. When that starts seeming like a good idea, it's time to slowly back away and give Operations a try.

 

TLDR:

 

This just This.

[AngryBuddhist]

It is a Binary-Diminishing Return, so I can see how people can perceive it as not being one. You are either susceptible or your are 100% diminished to CC.

 

Honestly I think Resolve needs to fill based on the time you spent in CC and breaks when you have exceeded that time, and then you become immune to all CC effects for CC'd Time X 3.

 

That's true, but I doubt you would really notice a difference between the binary and a scaled version. In fact, it is probably the math required for the scaled DR that made them throw in the towel and go with an on/off switch. If they cal'd that on server side... yikes and if they cal'd on client side it would already by in the hacker tool kits.

[hdrain]

See my above post. Resolve is a BINARY diminishing return system.

 

Aw... Sure. And a straight line is a curve. Just a straight one. And being paid nothing is being paid something. Just that something being nothing. Semantics are fun.

[Lord_Karsk]

Good post OP. And most of us agree with you bigtime. And i really hope they fix the issues you talked about soon or GW2 will be my last hope aswell because i'm sick and tired of these mmo makers no having a clue on how to make a good game.But we will see next month.

[Yazule]

Hey all,

 

As Anakin Skywalker apparently reached his shatterpoint when he gave Samuel L. Jackson an ambitious manicure... I, too, have reached my shatterpoint. Unfortunately, rather than become a Darth, I've decided instead to go into exile and wait for my Last Hope for good PvP in an MMO environment: Guild Wars 2.

 

I won't go into a huge thing here on why I've come to this point. Let me just say one thing that it wasn't: Class Balance. The class balance in this game is *remarkably* good, and I'm saying this as a Jedi Sentinel, one of the hardest classes to play and very few make a point that it's on the OP end. Class Balance is not SWTORs problem: in fact, it's one of the best balanced MMOs I've ever played.

 

Here's my Not So Comprehensive list of issues that tempted me on more than one occasion to put my fist through my monitor.

 

Premade vs. Pugs. Y'know, I feel I've made this argument for years, because I have. From WoW, to WAR, to Rift to here. And guess what? Blizzard figured it out. Trion figured it out. Hell, even EA Mythic figured it out. Of course, EA Mythic was fashionably late to the party, but as they say... better late than never. So why, 4 years later, am I making this argument still in an MMO? Why the heck is my team with 8 people with an average expertise rating of 80, with no healers and a tank who doesn't have Guard bound get thrown up against 4 Champion+ geared players on Skype? These four could take all eight of us out without even needing the other half of their team. Haven't we learned something yet? "Just roll with your own premade." No. Three other battlemasters should not be required to enjoy PvP in this game. As I said, every other company figured it out. So, what's the malfunction here, Bioware?

 

CC. Have you learned nothing from Warhammer? Here's something I discovered playing my Ironbreaker in your other game: People don't like being knocked into lava with a retardedly overpowered knockback. It's NOT heroic. It's too hard to avoid (never found a shortage of people to knockback in a huge way if the battle's being fought even in the near vicinity of lava/ledge) and most importantly, not everyone can do it. How can you design a map like Huttball and have classes in the game who do not have Pulls/Pushes or fire-and-forget stuns? Hell, some classes (like mine) lack all of those. Moreover, with your credio that: "you're the hero" - let me tell you, the life of a melee ping pong ball isn't as heroic as it sounds.

 

"Learn to position yourself." Yeah, right. Tell that to the people I stun on my Sith Juggernaut alt. That way, I get to move into whatever position I need to be in order to screw you. Trust me, with a knockback as far as I got, the only place you can position yourself where I won't find a way to screw you is on Azeroth. If there's a trap/ledge/pit/STD anywhere within EYESIGHT, you are getting it.

 

Or hell, my personal favorite: jump someone on the bridge, immobilize for 3 seconds, and then push to order. I don't care how pro you are - your man parts are going to be slow roasting in the Voidstar reactor and that's all there is to it.

 

"Learn to use the Resolve system." Heh, so glad you mentioned it.

 

Resolve: Honestly, if I were to name the worst mechanic in any PvP game I have played going back to Pong, this has got to be it. So this is the theory: You get hit by 3-4 CCs, then you're immune to them for 18-20 seconds. Here's the thing though: By the time you get hit by this many CCs, the enemies you are currently facing don't have them anymore. So Resolve is useless in small scale PvP. Considering that it also doesn't work on Immobilize effects, it's conceivable for you to STILL be CCed, even while your immune to CC. Lolwut?

 

Besides, what the hell good does this mechanic do in maps like Huttball where all it takes is one CC to knock you out of the action? By the time you get back into it (assuming you weren't stunned on acid or knocked into fire), not only is the situation you could have helped in probably over, but you've already lost all the Resolve you built up from that knockback. So, guess what, it just happens again! Why they've opted for a PvP system that utilizes this rather than Diminishing Returns, where you get a benefit immediately after the first time you're hit, I'll never know. This is just an example of developers trying to get too clever and one-up tried and true methods that actually promote fun gameplay.

 

Ilum: Won't get into a big thing here, but I honestly can't say I've seen a worse designed World PvP mechanic than this. Whether its game performance slowing to that of a PowerPoint Presentation if more than 50 players are on the screen at the same time, the sheer uselessness of melee classes in large scale PvP warfare, or the absolute ludicrous population imbalance on most servers, or the sheer redundancy of flipping points in a non-linear order, or the numerous bugs (stuck exploits still tons of fun), or the need for me to spam my class buff every cooldown to make sure I get credit for kills my ops does, or the crate spawn rates during downtime, or the... yeah, I can do this all day. Ilum every day is what Wintergrasp was on its worst... and Wintergrasp wasn't very good either.

 

Bag System/Random Loot. Kudos for finally getting your heads out of your asses last patch for Champion bags. Trust me: what's a good idea for that's also a good idea for Battlemaster bags. Smarten up, Bioware.

 

After a month of dealing with all of these mechanics, I've just reached my wits end. Everytime I draw Huttball, I want to stab myself in the eye with a sharp object. Every time I pick up my Ilum daily, I want to strangle puppies. And every time I get force charged/rooted/knocked off the bridge in Voidstar, I want to tear off my shirt, grab my supple manboobs and shriek. When that starts seeming like a good idea, it's time to slowly back away and give Operations a try.

 

TLDR:

 

those were a lot of words for someone who is "done"

[EternalFinality]

See my above post. Resolve is a BINARY diminishing return system.

 

"Binary diminishing returns" is an oxymoron.

[AngryBuddhist]

"Binary diminishing returns" is an oxymoron.

 

So he shoulda said diminished return? What are you an English major?

[Khoraji]

Other games didn't figure anything out. They just realized that they could get more subscribers if they cater to noobs, AKA, you.

[Skitlz]

Hey all,

Premade vs. Pugs. Y'know, I feel I've made this argument for years, because I have. From WoW, to WAR, to Rift to here. And guess what? Blizzard figured it out. Trion figured it out. Hell, even EA Mythic figured it out. Of course, EA Mythic was fashionably late to the party, but as they say... better late than never. So why, 4 years later, am I making this argument still in an MMO? Why the heck is my team with 8 people with an average expertise rating of 80, with no healers and a tank who doesn't have Guard bound get thrown up against 4 Champion+ geared players on Skype? These four could take all eight of us out without even needing the other half of their team. Haven't we learned something yet? "Just roll with your own premade." No. Three other battlemasters should not be required to enjoy PvP in this game. As I said, every other company figured it out. So, what's the malfunction here, Bioware?

 

[[/url]

 

Am i the only one, after getting 2200+ rated weapons and gear in WoW that loved going into BG's and rolling people with my full 10 guildys in WSG? No one dislikes completely destroying their apponent, anyone who says so probably wont ever post again once they get BM gear in this game.

[EternalFinality]

So he shoulda said diminished return? What are you an English major?

 

Why use english if you're not actually using it properly?

 

Diminishing returns means that successive CC effects are less effective - that's not what resolve is and pretending it's in any way similar to actual effective diminishing return systems of other MMOs is a farce.

Edited February 13, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Alkaholic]

I'm really curious how any developer is supposed to stop friends who queue together and discern who's using a 3rd party program to communicate. In WoW, anyone can queue for a non-rated BG go against complete n00bs. In GW2, anyone will be able to queue w/ friends against bums. Why is it bad to have friends in an MMO?

[Faenon]

To the OP:

 

Stumbled across your post via google, read the whole thing, but avoided the next 9 pages of posts. You wrote eloquently, humorously, and intelligently. You made good points with plenty of reasoning, supporting statements, and specific and relevant information. You don't need me to continue for the point to come across that I think your post was quite excellently done. These are the sorts of posts that should catch Bioware's attention and actually help them to understand the issue, rather than the 9 pages of useless, unfounded, ************ that followed, as evidenced by the first and only four posts I read after yours.

 

TL;DR - well done, sir.

 

P.S. Apologies to the few who responded reasonably and ended up lumped in with my generalizations. My statements are not intended to apply to you. No offense intended.

[AngryBuddhist]

Why use english if you're not actually using it properly?

 

Diminishing returns means that successive CC effects are less effective - that's not what resolve is and pretending it's in any way similar to actual effective diminishing return systems of other MMOs is a farce.

 

Cause we are talking about math and programming logic. A diminishing return can be on or off. So that would be binary. Just cause you are wrapped around the axle about it being more than two datapoints is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Xsorus]

Hey all,

 

As Anakin Skywalker apparently reached his shatterpoint when he gave Samuel L. Jackson an ambitious manicure... I, too, have reached my shatterpoint. Unfortunately, rather than become a Darth, I've decided instead to go into exile and wait for my Last Hope for good PvP in an MMO environment: Guild Wars 2.

 

I won't go into a huge thing here on why I've come to this point. Let me just say one thing that it wasn't: Class Balance. The class balance in this game is *remarkably* good, and I'm saying this as a Jedi Sentinel, one of the hardest classes to play and very few make a point that it's on the OP end. Class Balance is not SWTORs problem: in fact, it's one of the best balanced MMOs I've ever played.

 

Here's my Not So Comprehensive list of issues that tempted me on more than one occasion to put my fist through my monitor.

 

Premade vs. Pugs. Y'know, I feel I've made this argument for years, because I have. From WoW, to WAR, to Rift to here. And guess what? Blizzard figured it out. Trion figured it out. Hell, even EA Mythic figured it out. Of course, EA Mythic was fashionably late to the party, but as they say... better late than never. So why, 4 years later, am I making this argument still in an MMO? Why the heck is my team with 8 people with an average expertise rating of 80, with no healers and a tank who doesn't have Guard bound get thrown up against 4 Champion+ geared players on Skype? These four could take all eight of us out without even needing the other half of their team. Haven't we learned something yet? "Just roll with your own premade." No. Three other battlemasters should not be required to enjoy PvP in this game. As I said, every other company figured it out. So, what's the malfunction here, Bioware?

 

CC. Have you learned nothing from Warhammer? Here's something I discovered playing my Ironbreaker in your other game: People don't like being knocked into lava with a retardedly overpowered knockback. It's NOT heroic. It's too hard to avoid (never found a shortage of people to knockback in a huge way if the battle's being fought even in the near vicinity of lava/ledge) and most importantly, not everyone can do it. How can you design a map like Huttball and have classes in the game who do not have Pulls/Pushes or fire-and-forget stuns? Hell, some classes (like mine) lack all of those. Moreover, with your credio that: "you're the hero" - let me tell you, the life of a melee ping pong ball isn't as heroic as it sounds.

 

"Learn to position yourself." Yeah, right. Tell that to the people I stun on my Sith Juggernaut alt. That way, I get to move into whatever position I need to be in order to screw you. Trust me, with a knockback as far as I got, the only place you can position yourself where I won't find a way to screw you is on Azeroth. If there's a trap/ledge/pit/STD anywhere within EYESIGHT, you are getting it.

 

Or hell, my personal favorite: jump someone on the bridge, immobilize for 3 seconds, and then push to order. I don't care how pro you are - your man parts are going to be slow roasting in the Voidstar reactor and that's all there is to it.

 

"Learn to use the Resolve system." Heh, so glad you mentioned it.

 

Resolve: Honestly, if I were to name the worst mechanic in any PvP game I have played going back to Pong, this has got to be it. So this is the theory: You get hit by 3-4 CCs, then you're immune to them for 18-20 seconds. Here's the thing though: By the time you get hit by this many CCs, the enemies you are currently facing don't have them anymore. So Resolve is useless in small scale PvP. Considering that it also doesn't work on Immobilize effects, it's conceivable for you to STILL be CCed, even while your immune to CC. Lolwut?

 

Besides, what the hell good does this mechanic do in maps like Huttball where all it takes is one CC to knock you out of the action? By the time you get back into it (assuming you weren't stunned on acid or knocked into fire), not only is the situation you could have helped in probably over, but you've already lost all the Resolve you built up from that knockback. So, guess what, it just happens again! Why they've opted for a PvP system that utilizes this rather than Diminishing Returns, where you get a benefit immediately after the first time you're hit, I'll never know. This is just an example of developers trying to get too clever and one-up tried and true methods that actually promote fun gameplay.

 

Ilum: Won't get into a big thing here, but I honestly can't say I've seen a worse designed World PvP mechanic than this. Whether its game performance slowing to that of a PowerPoint Presentation if more than 50 players are on the screen at the same time, the sheer uselessness of melee classes in large scale PvP warfare, or the absolute ludicrous population imbalance on most servers, or the sheer redundancy of flipping points in a non-linear order, or the numerous bugs (stuck exploits still tons of fun), or the need for me to spam my class buff every cooldown to make sure I get credit for kills my ops does, or the crate spawn rates during downtime, or the... yeah, I can do this all day. Ilum every day is what Wintergrasp was on its worst... and Wintergrasp wasn't very good either.

 

Bag System/Random Loot. Kudos for finally getting your heads out of your asses last patch for Champion bags. Trust me: what's a good idea for that's also a good idea for Battlemaster bags. Smarten up, Bioware.

 

After a month of dealing with all of these mechanics, I've just reached my wits end. Everytime I draw Huttball, I want to stab myself in the eye with a sharp object. Every time I pick up my Ilum daily, I want to strangle puppies. And every time I get force charged/rooted/knocked off the bridge in Voidstar, I want to tear off my shirt, grab my supple manboobs and shriek. When that starts seeming like a good idea, it's time to slowly back away and give Operations a try.

 

TLDR:

 

Only going to comment on the first part.

 

WoW has cross server queue's

Rift Has Cross Server Queue's (and might I add, when they added this premade vs pug option to the game, Mass numbers of pvp guilds up and quit, Ya know why? Because we were having to sit in 1 hour queues if it was 3 or more of us. No one wants to wait an hour for a queue pop in these games. This is with Cross server queue's mind you. In this game it's simply not feasible period. It's really not feasible in any game, Except maybe WoW with 10 million subscribers. It's basically the same whine crybabies have been using since getting rolled by 8mans out in DAOC PvP)

Warhammer Online - No Cross Server Queue's, and all but killed Scenario Pops, But hey, no pops is better then being butthurt in a video game am I right?

 

I solo queue a lot, I fight a lot of Premades.....This doesn't bother me, It happens and I deal with it.

 

Quit your whining.

[AngryBuddhist]

I'm really curious how any developer is supposed to stop friends who queue together and discern who's using a 3rd party program to communicate. In WoW, anyone can queue for a non-rated BG go against complete n00bs. In GW2, anyone will be able to queue w/ friends against bums. Why is it bad to have friends in an MMO?

 

We did that all the time in in alterac Valley so we could have a vent group smash all the objectives....

 

3... 2... 1.. QUE!!!!!!