aznthecapn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 So where is the quarterly earnings report between then and now?? There are about 3 missing.. Where are the subscription numbers?? The evidence is all around you.. You just have to choose to look at it.. The earnings reports are always public. Its a publicly traded company. You have to know where to look. Its only been recently that MMO Champion has been reporting them. The evidence can be twisted, as you are choosing to do. The loss is minimal and easily explained without resorting to doomsday reactions. I think its entirely laughable that you would use youtube like ratings as evidence of anything other than "the internet is chock full of morons". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) One shotting him a week after the kill? Maybe. Even likely. One shotting him the first time you faced him? No. Well.. Obviously to get to heroic you have to beat him.. But make no mistakes he has been and is being one shot on the first time people face him.. ' Just the fact that you can see after the first week is evidence of what I am talking about?? Who beat Lich King on their first encounter?? Nobody.. Who beat the lich king on ther second encounter?? Nobody.. Even Wrecked took exactly 4 weeks to get server first.. I will say this, I hear wrecked was pissed when they didn't get server first on Deathwing.. They don't raid until thurs or Friday.. Another guild beat him and got server first on Tuesday after he was released.. LFG system or not shouldn't matter.. It is still a sad day when a new boss is being beat on release day.. Bosskillers and other sites have stradegies on the boss before they are released.. Many of them have faced and beat him on the public test servers.. Some guilds actually practice there for live encounters.. I know we did and I know that Wrecked does.. Everyone heard he was easy on the PTR.. Live was no different.. It was hoped that we would only be easy on the PTR.. They would boost him a bit for live.. It appearantly never happened.. Wow has been nerfing everything because so many people complain how hard the game is.. It is sad that they have to give out a nerf just for people who use the LFG system?? ICC was nerfed shortly after Cata was released.. It is sad how easy that dungeon is now.. It is sad they have to nerf anything that much.. Oddly enough it happened after the LFG was added and dual speccing was added.. Is there going to be a nerfed LFG version of operations here?? I hope not.. If they dumb this game down like WOW, this game will start to see it's decline sooner rather than later.. Edited March 5, 2012 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abanoth Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Just play the other opposite faction if you don't want to repeat the class story. I have a Pub scoundrel and an Imp Sniper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 The earnings reports are always public. Its a publicly traded company. You have to know where to look. Its only been recently that MMO Champion has been reporting them. Publicly traded doesn't mean their earning report is public.. It is only available to those that own stock or investors.. It isn't published on the internet or some magazine.. Public traded means anyone can by the stock.. But only those that own stock can see their financial reports.. Care to provide a link to Blizzards financial report and subscription numbers to WOW on MMO-Champion?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I deleted my post for being off topic.. We really need to get back to the issue here and not analysing the financial statements of a company.. The decline of WOW is really irrelevent to AC speccing issue yay or nay.. WOW never allowed class changes and Bioware should also follow suit and not allow them either.. I think this is something we both agree on.. Edited March 5, 2012 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Publicly traded doesn't mean their earning report is public.. As it applies to Activision, it does. http://investor.activision.com/results.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosdefined Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I deleted my post for being off topic.. We really need to get back to the issue here and not analysing the financial statements of a company.. The decline of WOW is really irrelevent to AC speccing issue yay or nay.. WOW never allowed class changes and Bioware should also follow suit and not allow them either.. I think this is something we both agree on.. I find it interesting that you sat for ages berating WoW for failing and such, then turn around and say SW should do the same as WoW. Just because a previous MMO didn't do something, doesn't mean every one after shouldn't either. It's called innovation. WoW didn't do anything like the Space Missions in SW, and I'm glad SW decided to do those. Also, in regards to one-shotting Deathwing first time facing him, easy way to check on this. Give us your Guild's name and server and we can have a look on the armoury for the date in which they killed Deathwing and see how long after he was put into the game that they killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterPetricco Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't agree with AC changes, for a number of reasons. 1. Like Bioware I consider them different classes (clearly its a system they came up with so they only had to write 8 class stories instead of 16) 2. Even on the ACs that are close to each other, Guardian and Sentinal for example, they do actually use different mechanics, a guardian is all about power house attacks that hurt a lot, where as a sentinal has the choice to do some nice sustained damage with some DoTs, or some heavy burst damage. Sentinals also have their buffs to deal with. This in my eyes does not make it the same as, Proc, Arms and Fury warriors as key elements about how the class is played are changed depending on your AC. 3. In regards to end-game loosing a key role, well my scoundrel healer is just as good as my sage healer, and I've done HM EV with both, the game is designed so it doesn't matter which class is filling which role in your group/op. This means if your guardian tank drops off the face of the earth, get one of your shadows or vanguards that are DPS to reroll as tanks, instead of leveling a completely new guardian. And if your lacking a healer with no AC to switch over to being one, then roll up a class you haven't played before that CAN heal, just because your a shadow doesn't mean you HAVE TO PLAY CONSULAR. Go role a trooper or smuggler and make them a healer for your OP, if you don't want to play the same class story. 4. There is no Paladin class, I'm sorry, but Blizzard also made it so a full raid of Paladins, probably wouldn't get very far into the tiers. Bioware are different, you can have a full raid of Consulars, some shadows, tanks and dps some sages, healers and dps. But again that doesn't make the Consular the paladin class, because consular isn't a class, its a story, the classes are shadow and sage. While its true some bosses are better suited for ranged DPS and tanking, it isn't impossible to do with melee, its just made SLIGHTLY easier by having ranged classes, and if you're that bothered by it, make everyone in your raid a trooper, they're all ranged. Oddly a full raid of smugglers/troopers would probably do better then a full raid of Knights/Consulars. An idea for an arena team if they ever add them, "Hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side", 3 man, Scoundrel healer, scoundrel damage, vanguard dps (who can switch to tanking if needed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) If someone wants to switch ACs, how does that hurt your gaming? Flavor of the month? How does that hurt your gaming? I don't understand why people are opposed. No matter what or how many times a person changes their AC it won't have an effect on my gaming PvP or PvE wise. If anything it will just make my gaming in PvE easier since people will be able to assume the roles most required if they wish. In PvP it will only balance out the matches more so that both teams have a decent make up of DPS, tanks, and heals. I'm all for anything that makes PvP more of a skill based game versus a zerge fest without any heals or tanks. Edited March 5, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalle Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 miss clicked please allow changing AC. forcing ppl to delete their toon to redo lvl 1-10 isn't a way to keep subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costantino Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I don't agree with AC changes, for a number of reasons. 1. Like Bioware I consider them different classes (clearly its a system they came up with so they only had to write 8 class stories instead of 16) 2. Even on the ACs that are close to each other, Guardian and Sentinal for example, they do actually use different mechanics, a guardian is all about power house attacks that hurt a lot, where as a sentinal has the choice to do some nice sustained damage with some DoTs, or some heavy burst damage. Sentinals also have their buffs to deal with. This in my eyes does not make it the same as, Proc, Arms and Fury warriors as key elements about how the class is played are changed depending on your AC. 3. In regards to end-game loosing a key role, well my scoundrel healer is just as good as my sage healer, and I've done HM EV with both, the game is designed so it doesn't matter which class is filling which role in your group/op. This means if your guardian tank drops off the face of the earth, get one of your shadows or vanguards that are DPS to reroll as tanks, instead of leveling a completely new guardian. And if your lacking a healer with no AC to switch over to being one, then roll up a class you haven't played before that CAN heal, just because your a shadow doesn't mean you HAVE TO PLAY CONSULAR. Go role a trooper or smuggler and make them a healer for your OP, if you don't want to play the same class story. 4. There is no Paladin class, I'm sorry, but Blizzard also made it so a full raid of Paladins, probably wouldn't get very far into the tiers. Bioware are different, you can have a full raid of Consulars, some shadows, tanks and dps some sages, healers and dps. But again that doesn't make the Consular the paladin class, because consular isn't a class, its a story, the classes are shadow and sage. While its true some bosses are better suited for ranged DPS and tanking, it isn't impossible to do with melee, its just made SLIGHTLY easier by having ranged classes, and if you're that bothered by it, make everyone in your raid a trooper, they're all ranged. Oddly a full raid of smugglers/troopers would probably do better then a full raid of Knights/Consulars. An idea for an arena team if they ever add them, "Hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side", 3 man, Scoundrel healer, scoundrel damage, vanguard dps (who can switch to tanking if needed). ^A voice of reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costantino Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 miss clicked please allow changing AC. forcing ppl to delete their toon to redo lvl 1-10 isn't a way to keep subscribers. While I feel bad that you misclicked your AC; it's only 10 levels and you shouldn't have any trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKhayos Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Again, didn't expect this thread to get nearly as much attention as it has. I'm really only posting to let BW know I'm still in full support of AC changes and to be a voice in contrast to the remarkably vocal anti-AC-change crew. As a guildie said when I brought this up to him, "It's BW's game, if they think they need to add ACs to keep subs, they will." That alone means the debate back and forth is almost fruitless, and if you combine the fact that forumgoers are a mere fraction of the population, this thread took far too deeply passionate of a turn far too quickly. I have little else to say except for below. To the "No AC Change" people.. Yes, your attitudes border on fanaticism. I recognize your arguments against AC change. I respect that your desires are varied and as worthy as mine. However, this is still a game, with over a million subscribers, thousands active daily. Allowing AC changes in no way, shape, or form, negatively affects YOUR immersion into your fantasy world. If you are against them, you will not use them, and that's okay. You shouldn't be forced to, and any guild that demands you develop an off-AC is likely not worth the suffering. Furthermore, I'd be interested to see how many people who are so completely anti-AC change are legitimate Roleplayers in-game who actively RP several times a week. I doubt it's very many of you, which only leads me to believe that this argument is no more balanced, fair, or informative than the Abortion debate that rages in America. Changing AC (Allowing abortions) has nothing to do with you or your game (life) experience, yet you insist that others should play (live) your way. Funny, that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugimus Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 When you roll another toon to go the other advanced class, just go opposite alignment - the story changes enough, in my opinion. I have enjoyed 2 troopers the whole way through, hitting up class quests on every planet with opposite decisions. I completed every other planet on each toon, so it was pretty much a whole new story. I have zero complaints about locked advanced classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 If someone wants to switch ACs, how does that hurt your gaming? Asked and answered. Its an MMO - it effects everyone. You may not care, but it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, your attitudes border on fanaticism. Curious about what fanaticism looks like? Try the militant arm of a normally peaceful and caring group of people based about 7,000 miles from here. If you genuinely think people against AC are fanatics then you have no scope at all about what that word means. When we start bombing people and hijacking things, you can call us fanatics. Until then, we're merely passionately against this change. Allowing AC changes in no way, shape, or form, negatively affects YOUR immersion into your fantasy world. Of all the things that have been brought up, I don't think I've seen immersion referenced once. Class-based immersion went out the window with respecs and, furthermore, dual spec. Immersion is a non-issue for most. For those that it is, they won't use it nor likely associate with people on any level that would. In that sense, you're right. Where you aren't is that it WILL effect the gameplay exprience of everyone. Its a multiplayer game - making a sweeping change like that will have an effect. Even if you still disagree, fine, however there are many other perfectly valid reasons (that you don't have to agree with) why it still should not happen right now. Eventually? Maybe. I don't know how I'll feel about this game in six months. I may be all for AC changing. But right now I'm not. The most important thing is that Bioware agrees for the time being. I'd be interested to see how many people who are so completely anti-AC change are legitimate Roleplayers in-game who actively RP several times a week. I doubt it's very many of you, which only leads me to believe that this argument is no more balanced, fair, or informative than the Abortion debate that rages in America. Changing AC (Allowing abortions) has nothing to do with you or your game (life) experience, yet you insist that others should play (live) your way. Funny, that. You have a very skewed view of the abortion topic and using it as an analogy to this discussion is shameful and offensive. Comparing a topic in an online game to something so important and expansive is just absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just because another MMO hasn't had the success of WoW doesn't mean it didn't have degrees of success. There are elements of every MMO you listed that are shining examples of the genre. Yes, compare SWTOR to the "juggernaut" but compare it to others as well. So far, only one on that list has had any kind of class changing system and its on its way to F2P. FF XI and FF XIV are the two that do and you didn't list. The former is a giant pile of stink and the latter is whatever comes out of a buffalo after eating the former. If that's the case, then you're making a case against AC switching because WoW is the single most successful MMO by a country mile, doesn't allow it, won't allow it and classes in that game have far more similarities than in this one (mages, warlocks and priests - I'm looking at you). WoW has far more justification (three role classes, highly similar classes) for allowing class changes and doesn't. If that's going to be your sole point of reference, you're not helping yourself. So what did the Final Fantasy games do right then, or are they the only 2 complete failures in a field of shining examples of the genre? Actually considering that shadow priests and affliction warlocks play similarly, as do destuction warlocks and fire mages-there is no need for class changing as they are duplicated pretty well. Everyone keeps going on and on about how DIFFERENT juggernaut dps and marauder dps is, so perhaps a change is needed. Besides, if players in warcraft want it to do it all they will find that 20% of the classes allow them to do so-10% even allow ranged as well as melee dps. For some reason this game has decided that you will either shoot kolto bombs or get heavier armor, and never the two shall meet. Apparently attempting to force players into rolling alts is a money-making stategy, especially if a trooper can go telekinetic in the next patch (what was that about classes and choices mattering?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Asked and answered. Its an MMO - it effects everyone. You may not care, but it does. So you oppose anything that anyone might not want in the game? Dual specs, class changes, crafting changes, ranked warzones, lack of warzone brackets, same-gender romances, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldeyeXperience Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Besides, if players in warcraft want it to do it all they will find that 20% of the classes allow them to do so-10% even allow ranged as well as melee dps. For some reason this game has decided that you will either shoot kolto bombs or get heavier armor, and never the two shall meet. Apparently attempting to force players into rolling alts is a money-making stategy, especially if a trooper can go telekinetic in the next patch (what was that about classes and choices mattering?) This. Although I disagree in some of your points, I do aprove. Most people, and I stress that, want to choose a class with a unique play style from other classes, whereas WoW (as you stated) made many classes very similar to one another, but different in name only. I don't want ToR falling for the same thing. Edited March 6, 2012 by coldeyeXperience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 So you oppose anything that anyone might not want in the game? Dual specs, class changes, crafting changes, ranked warzones, lack of warzone brackets, same-gender romances, etc.? Did I say that? Sweeping generalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Did I say that? Sweeping generalization. You said anything in an MMO affects everyone, so that is why you so vehemently oppose AC switching. If I vehemently oppose development time being wasted on new operations should I use that excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) You said anything in an MMO affects everyone, so that is why you so vehemently oppose AC switching. If I vehemently oppose development time being wasted on new operations should I use that excuse? You realize that line of argument, if not useless to begin with, became so when you said "wasted"? In any case: There's a fundamental difference between ruining an element of the game and adding content that supports a given playstyle. And, in any case, there's literally no argument for AC switching that doesn't fall apart on the fact that classes are not a thing to be changed (that's just the nature of them), and the fact that with any other game, you'd need to reroll. Edited March 7, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 You realize that line of argument, if not useless to begin with, became so when you said "wasted"? In any case: There's a fundamental difference between ruining an element of the game and adding content that supports a given playstyle. And, in any case, there's literally no argument for AC switching that doesn't fall apart on the fact that classes are not a thing to be changed (that's just the nature of them), and the fact that with any other game, you'd need to reroll. So what is being 'ruined'? By adding content for raiders development time is taken from other areas-I do not raid so I have no use for this content. It theoretically shouldn't hurt my playing but it does for some reason (just like AC swap apparently gives you ulcers). Hell it's bad enough that crafters are expected to raid for patterns due to players' inability to think beyond 'raid' at endgame. LFG shouldn't affect anyone's play either right? Macros, addons, same-gender romance, lfg tools, dual spec-no one HAS to use any of these, so why does it matter to you or anyone what I do with my toons? Why is respeccing a standard feature but AC switching the death of this game? If it's a class then why can I have a sith warrior I take into warzones? Not a juggernaut, not a marauder, a warrior. It's a specialization- a SPEC, not a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 If it's a class then why can I have a sith warrior I take into warzones? Not a juggernaut, not a marauder, a warrior. It's a specialization- a SPEC, not a class. You can say that all you want - it isn't going to make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You can say that all you want - it isn't going to make it true. Just like you saying 'it somehow ruins my gameplay for you to have the option' doesn't make that true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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