"Advanced Classes = Fundamentally Different Class Designs"

[aznthecapn]

While I kinda like the idea of getting away from paladin or druid style class design, there's only 4 stories per faction in the game.

 

I love my Vanguard, but requiring me to grind out the same quests & the same class story if I want to try Commando healing is, frankly, just stupid.

 

Ironic considering every other MMO requires you to grind through 100% identical content instead of only SOME identical content. SWTOR has five stories (four class based, one that everyone experiences). Other MMOs have one - the same one for everyone.

[aznthecapn]

I'm finding the pro-AC-respec camp to be the more intellectually honest here. The amount of straw men being set up by the other side could consume the entire hay-producing capacity of the Midwestern United States.

 

You haven't been paying attention long enough. This thread is the tail end of a very protracted debate that has been going on for months. Just because some people stepped in and made logically questionable points doesn't mean the ENTIRE side of the discussion is logically inept. You're using a very small sample size to generalize about the whole - that's bad logic. Maybe we shouldn't consider your post "intellectually honest."

[chaosdefined]

Ironic considering every other MMO requires you to grind through 100% identical content instead of only SOME identical content. SWTOR has five stories (four class based, one that everyone experiences). Other MMOs have one - the same one for everyone.

 

Just wanted to point out that in other MMO's you have a choice of where you want to go and level. For example in WoW there are almost always at least 2 zones that are the same level range for you to choose from, so that you can actually experience different content whilst levelling an alt.

in SWTOR the only difference in content is the class story if you choose a completely different class from your own, and not just a different AC. The Light Side/Dark Side choices only have a minimal effect on the difference of content.

[Maltra]

Generally when evaluating who's out to lunch on a particular issue, I look at who appears to be more intellectually dishonest or clueless. This applies just about everywhere. When one side is misrepresenting the other's arguments, using bad argumentative tactics such as oversimplification, slippery-sloping, appeals to authority, and the like, it's usually a clue as to who's either on the wrong side of history or simply the wrong side of the argument.

 

I'm finding the pro-AC-respec camp to be the more intellectually honest here. The amount of straw men being set up by the other side could consume the entire hay-producing capacity of the Midwestern United States.

 

This pretty much sums up what has emerged so far in months of discussions on the matter.

 

To this day, it's still unclear what the actual reasons (except blind fanaticism) behind the naysayers are, while the pro people have been coming up with countless reasonable motivations ranging from gameplay to functionality to personal preference.

 

It' also still unclear to this day, how exactly people not wanting to switch ac would be affected if others were able to. As the thing would merely be an option. More fanatical nonsense?

[Maltra]

Just wanted to point out that in other MMO's you have a choice of where you want to go and level. For example in WoW there are almost always at least 2 zones that are the same level range for you to choose from, so that you can actually experience different content whilst levelling an alt.

in SWTOR the only difference in content is the class story if you choose a completely different class from your own, and not just a different AC. The Light Side/Dark Side choices only have a minimal effect on the difference of content.

 

Why would you even bother giving any attention to the guy? He only compares to other games when it's convenient to him anyway, then when it's not (like with the druid/paladins thing a couple pages earlier), arguments magically become invalid because they're different games.

 

In this particular case for example he conveniently fails to mention how other games don't try to sell you "rich/varied story telling" as a main point while swtor does.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[aznthecapn]

Just wanted to point out that in other MMO's you have a choice of where you want to go and level. For example in WoW there are almost always at least 2 zones that are the same level range for you to choose from, so that you can actually experience different content whilst levelling an alt.

 

in SWTOR the only difference in content is the class story if you choose a completely different class from your own, and not just a different AC. The Light Side/Dark Side choices only have a minimal effect on the difference of content.

 

When WoW first launched, there was not a lot of choice in where you could level. Sure, just starting out you could pick some, but the amount of XP needed was far more than it is now and rate at which you acquired it was far less (since most people today level with BoA gear). Once you got towards the top end, there wasn't a lot of choice.

 

There is a degree of choice in SWTOR by simple virtue of the amount of XP you can acquire per planet by completing all bonus content. Combine that with some dungeon runs, space missions and PvP and you can skip entire planets. Its still a choice.

 

Why would you even bother giving any attention to the guy? He only compares to other games when it's convenient to him anyway, then when it's not (like with the druid/paladins thing a couple pages earlier), arguments magically become invalid because they're different games.

 

In this particular case for example he conveniently fails to mention how other games don't try to sell you "rich/varied story telling" as a main point while swtor does.

 

It seems as though he realizes that mature discussion requires a mature mindset. Comparing things like the only two three-role hybrids in WoW and story are very, very different comparisons. Paladins and Druids are nothing like what we have in SWTOR and very dissimilar to other classes in WoW. Story is universal.

 

Incidentally, most MMOs don't need to sell you on "rich and varied story telling" because - and here's the mind bender - its an RPG. They ALL feature rich and varied story telling. The fact that Bioware used that as a hat rack is a little stupid, especially considering there's only four unique class stories per faction (one of the reasons we're having this little debate).

 

To this day, it's still unclear what the actual reasons (except blind fanaticism) behind the naysayers are, while the pro people have been coming up with countless reasonable motivations ranging from gameplay to functionality to personal preference.

 

It' also still unclear to this day, how exactly people not wanting to switch ac would be affected if others were able to. As the thing would merely be an option. More fanatical nonsense?

 

Its quite clear what the reasons are for both sides. Your inability to understand them doesn't disqualify them from consideration. This whole discussion is whizzing over your head like a flock of birds.

 

Its also very clear how people would be effected. Go back and read.

Edited March 3, 2012 by aznthecapn

[Maltra]

The reasons may be clear for the ac switching side, as far as the other side is concerned.. not so much.

 

The fanaticism of thinking that the way you want something IS the right way to go, without actually providing reasons, doesn't really qualify as a proper reason.

 

It isn't a coincidence that is always the "No" side that consistently drifts off topic arguing about things that don't really have anything to do with the pro and cons of ac switching, just for the sake of arguing.

 

They ALL eventually get put into a corner where they find themselves crushed under the weight of things that actually make sense, and then they start talking about completely unrelated stuff and what not.

 

If you go back and read, that's all there is to notice, it's like a pattern repeating itself over and over again, for months now.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[aznthecapn]

The reasons may be clear for the ac switching side, as far as the other side is concerned.. not so much.

 

The fanaticism of thinking that the way you want something IS the right way to go, without actually providing reasons, doesn't really qualify as a proper reason.

 

The reasons aren't clear because the fanatic you call others is you. People who cannot empathize with the opposing side are fanatics. Me? I can see how wanting to change your AC might allow for some people to get more enjoyment out of the game. Some people don't like playing alts. I had many friends in WoW that had one max level toon and a smattering of 2-3 alts in their low 20s that never got off the ground. People like that would benefit greatly from being able to fulfill all three roles and experience a varied gameplay experience offered by the two classes.

 

At the same time however, I also feel that there are many people who would level that one character, swap ACs some to play everything and then quit. Permanently. Without the option, they'd level alts to experience everything. They'd get full PvP and PvE sets on multiple toons to experience it all. And then quit. Permanently. In my mind, this is better for the health of the game and therefore the community. Its not detrimental to the player because they'd play that way anyway. By not giving them that option they are not harmed and the game lasts longer (and developers have more time to implement content that would keep this person playing).

 

Before you pounce, please realize this is but one reason. I presented both sides and attempted to show how both have valid reasoning however I agree more with the latter point. In my experience playing MMOs, its a more convincing point. No, I'm not going to give every point on either side the same treatment. This is an exercise to show you how empathy in a mature discussion works.

 

I have also, many times, solicited the notion of compromises. One of which allows players to change thier AC a finite number of times, at cost, as they level. Once they reach 50 they must choose one or the other and are locked there at max level. Another option is that, upon reaching max level (and the appropriate Legacy level), on one AC, that person has access to the opposing AC at level 10 on the fleet for their faction, ready to go. You get to dive right into the new gameplay, even if the story does feel a little "rehashed".

[Maltra]

The reasons aren't clear because the fanatic you call others is you. People who cannot empathize with the opposing side are fanatics. Me? I can see how wanting to change your AC might allow for some people to get more enjoyment out of the game. Some people don't like playing alts. I had many friends in WoW that had one max level toon and a smattering of 2-3 alts in their low 20s that never got off the ground. People like that would benefit greatly from being able to fulfill all three roles and experience a varied gameplay experience offered by the two classes.

 

At the same time however, I also feel that there are many people who would level that one character, swap ACs some to play everything and then quit. Permanently. Without the option, they'd level alts to experience everything. They'd get full PvP and PvE sets on multiple toons to experience it all. And then quit. Permanently. In my mind, this is better for the health of the game and therefore the community. Its not detrimental to the player because they'd play that way anyway. By not giving them that option they are not harmed and the game lasts longer (and developers have more time to implement content that would keep this person playing).

 

Before you pounce, please realize this is but one reason. I presented both sides and attempted to show how both have valid reasoning however I agree more with the latter point. In my experience playing MMOs, its a more convincing point. No, I'm not going to give every point on either side the same treatment. This is an exercise to show you how empathy in a mature discussion works.

 

I have also, many times, solicited the notion of compromises. One of which allows players to change thier AC a finite number of times, at cost, as they level. Once they reach 50 they must choose one or the other and are locked there at max level. Another option is that, upon reaching max level (and the appropriate Legacy level), on one AC, that person has access to the opposing AC at level 10 on the fleet for their faction, ready to go. You get to dive right into the new gameplay, even if the story does feel a little "rehashed".

 

Eh.. this is a little madness. I find it hard to emphatize with people that (as you said) would play in a way (rolling 100 alts bla bla) only if they were forced to do so, but instead would, if given the chance, simply switch ac.

 

You'll have to agree that that is more than a little contradictory if not masochistic.

 

People who really want to have multiple chars even of the same class, can do so even with the option of ac switching, dual spec, or whatnot present. Hell, there's a guy on my server with 2 commandos one is gunnery the other is combat medic. Those who instead want to play multiple chars but can do so only if they are FORCED, should sit and rethink their stance/ideas/whatever.

 

Maybe i lied, i don't find it hard to emphatize with them, i find it impossible. My line of work is closer to the one of a developer than the one of a psychiatrist.

 

The problem with the 2 points, for both sides, you presented is this: the "pro ac switching" point can live happily with people who also want to roll 1,2,3,4,100 characters of the same class but different acs, while the "anti ac switching" point leaves the people who don't agree with it with no choice, and that, is terrible.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[Deewe]

TL- DR: Yes, the ACs are "fundamentally different." The quests aren't. Please truly consider either allowing AC changes (at additional cost, quests, whatever) or change the AC storylines so that they're significantly different.

Playing the same shared V.O. faction story already gets old fast, not to hinder it even more with playing the same class story.

 

Simply put whatever you are a hardcore or a casual gamer the choice to reroll or respec should be left in the players hands not the devs ones. This is a game and such limitations doesn't improve the fun nor the sense of accomplishment, even less promotes staying subscribed in the long term.

[HKFortyEight]

Generally when evaluating who's out to lunch on a particular issue, I look at who appears to be more intellectually dishonest or clueless. This applies just about everywhere. When one side is misrepresenting the other's arguments, using bad argumentative tactics such as oversimplification, slippery-sloping, appeals to authority, and the like, it's usually a clue as to who's either on the wrong side of history or simply the wrong side of the argument.

 

I'm finding the pro-AC-respec camp to be the more intellectually honest here. The amount of straw men being set up by the other side could consume the entire hay-producing capacity of the Midwestern United States.

 

And you can say the exact same thing about the other side.

[aznthecapn]

Eh.. this is a little madness. I find it hard to emphatize with people that (as you said) would play in a way (rolling 100 alts bla bla) only if they were forced to do so, but instead would, if given the chance, simply switch ac.

 

You'll have to agree that that is more than a little contradictory if not masochistic.

 

Except if you consider playstyle, most ACs are dramatically different. The differences between an assassin and a sorcerer are significant. I can see myself enjoying both playstyles and leveling both. Alternatively, I can see myself playing an assassin (which I do) and then choosing a sage on Republic side.

 

The hyperbole of "100 alts" isn't helpful. People roll alts to experience alternative gameplay. No one rolls 100 of them.

 

People who really want to have multiple chars even of the same class, can do so even with the option of ac switching, dual spec, or whatnot present. Hell, there's a guy on my server with 2 commandos one is gunnery the other is combat medic. Those who instead want to play multiple chars but can do so only if they are FORCED, should sit and rethink their stance/ideas/whatever.

 

No one is forced to do anything. Like I said, NOT allowing it does not have a detrimental effect on anyone. It means they have to take additional steps to reach that point and that is good for the game. By eliminating the steps, and the time and experience gained while performing them, shortens the lifespan of the game.

 

Maybe i lied, i don't find it hard to emphatize with them, i find it impossible. My line of work is closer to the one of a developer than the one of a psychiatrist.

 

Empathy is not a psychiatrist only characteristic. Its a human one. Do you know who doesn't feel empathy? Psychopaths. I'm not saying you're a psychopath. I am saying you need some perspective on the topic. Apply your word "fanatic" here as you wish.

 

The problem with the 2 points, for both sides, you presented is this: the "pro ac switching" point can live happily with people who also want to roll 1,2,3,4,100 characters of the same class but different acs, while the "anti ac switching" point leaves the people who don't agree with it with no choice, and that, is terrible.

 

People who want to switch ACs can live quite happily rolling alts like anyone else. They're doing it right now. The perceived lack of choice does not mean the opposite is true. Not being able to choose to change your AC does not mean you're being forced to just play that AC. To imply it does is a logical fallacy. Would people who want to switch AC be HAPPIER if they could? Maybe. Doesn't mean they aren't happy now. I love my wife. Would I be happier if she looked like Scarlett Johansson? Hell yeah. Doesn't mean I don't love my wife.

[aznthecapn]

This is a game and such limitations doesn't improve the fun nor the sense of accomplishment, even less promotes staying subscribed in the long term.

 

World of Warcraft (who doesn't allow class changing) would like to speak with you.

 

I'd also strongly counter the bolded statement by saying it does indeed improve one's sens of accomplishment.

[Autorch]

You haven't been paying attention long enough. This thread is the tail end of a very protracted debate that has been going on for months. Just because some people stepped in and made logically questionable points doesn't mean the ENTIRE side of the discussion is logically inept. You're using a very small sample size to generalize about the whole - that's bad logic. Maybe we shouldn't consider your post "intellectually honest."

 

You have entirely made my point for me.

 

I believe in the months that I've lurked here I believe I've read and understood your entire arsenal on the matter. You have no idea for how long I've been paying attention, or to what. So that's your first unfounded assertion, plus a shade of ad hominem for good measure.

 

I was also careful to qualify my statements--your clues to this would be found in the qualifying words "generally", "usually", and "the more". Yet you present my position as absolute, that the ENTIRE side of the discussion is logically inept. Which wasn't my statement, so you've set up a straw man there.

 

You have no actual knowledge of my sample size, yet you're asserting that you do. That's your second unfounded assertion (as an aside, I don't believe this forum as a whole is even a valid sampling of the opinions of the 2 million players, so anyone here making statements about what the majority player base thinks are at best laughable).

 

Also, sample sizes aren't bad logic; they're contributors to invalidity in statistical analysis. Statistical analysis and logic are entirely different things, thus you're misrepresenting that as well.

 

Maybe you shouldn't consider my post intellectually honest; entirely up to you. But given what you've written above, in which you're demonstrably committing either a misrepresentation or a fallacy with almost every sentence written, I'm perfectly happy to let the audience be the judge.

 

If you'd like to engage in some mature discussion, I'm willing to engage on that basis, but you would first have to write some. This particular post wasn't it, as I have shown.

 

Gonna take you to school next, MagikMyst. Unfortunately I have a couple of tickets to Lewis Black and must split, followed by other actual nonSWTOR activities this weekend. Might be a couple of days before I'm next able to post.

[aznthecapn]

You have entirely made my point for me.

 

I believe in the months that I've lurked here I believe I've read and understood your entire arsenal on the matter. You have no idea for how long I've been paying attention, or to what. So that's your first unfounded assertion, plus a shade of ad hominem for good measure.

 

I was also careful to qualify my statements--your clues to this would be found in the qualifying words "generally", "usually", and "the more". Yet you present my position as absolute, that the ENTIRE side of the discussion is logically inept. Which wasn't my statement, so you've set up a straw man there.

 

You have no actual knowledge of my sample size, yet you're asserting that you do. That's your second unfounded assertion (as an aside, I don't believe this forum as a whole is even a valid sampling of the opinions of the 2 million players, so anyone here making statements about what the majority player base thinks are at best laughable).

 

Also, sample sizes aren't bad logic; they're contributors to invalidity in statistical analysis. Statistical analysis and logic are entirely different things, thus you're misrepresenting that as well.

 

Maybe you shouldn't consider my post intellectually honest; entirely up to you. But given what you've written above, in which you're demonstrably committing either a misrepresentation or a fallacy with almost every sentence written, I'm perfectly happy to let the audience be the judge.

 

If you'd like to engage in some mature discussion, I'm willing to engage on that basis, but you would first have to write some. This particular post wasn't it, as I have shown.

 

Gonna take you to school next, MagikMyst. Unfortunately I have a couple of tickets to Lewis Black and must split, followed by other actual nonSWTOR activities this weekend. Might be a couple of days before I'm next able to post.

 

So, based on what you've said, one might derive you are making the most unfounded assertions of all. Using generalizations doesn't make them any more valid. With that being the case, I don't need to read the rest of your post. You aren't actually discussing the topic at hand, you're discussing the people discussing the topic - the king of all strawmen.

[Deewe]

World of Warcraft (who doesn't allow class changing) would like to speak with you.

 

I'd also strongly counter the bolded statement by saying it does indeed improve one's sens of accomplishment.

Certainly: say that to my tank/healer/dps druid.

[aznthecapn]

Certainly: say that to my tank/healer/dps druid.

 

One of two classes in a ten class game that can do that. One of two most notoriously difficult classes to balance. They are the exception - not the rule.

[Deewe]

One of two classes in a ten class game that can do that. One of two most notoriously difficult classes to balance. They are the exception - not the rule.

And?

 

So how about a more recent MMO then Rift: 5 templates per class from Tank to DPS through Healer with almost instant respec? You are right it's not the exception it's the core design and it does not makes any classes less pleasant to play either.

[aznthecapn]

And?

 

So how about a more recent MMO then Rift: 5 templates per class from Tank to DPS through Healer with almost instant respec? You are right it's not the exception it's the core design and it does not makes any classes less pleasant to play either.

 

Moot point. Rift is going belly up. One might cite the class system as a reason why, particularly when a game like WoW has locked classes, several of which are far more similar than opposing advanced classes in SWTOR (mage vs priest vs warlock).

[Dayfax]

One of two classes in a ten class game that can do that. One of two most notoriously difficult classes to balance. They are the exception - not the rule.

 

Wrong. Any hybrid class in WoW will have specs that play differently from one another. There's just a big a gap between Elemental and Enhancement shamans as there are between Shadow and Sage consulars.

 

Remember that WoW has 10 classes, and only 4 are pure DPS. The majority are hybrids of one form or another. All the tanking classes are hybrids. All the healing classes are hybrids.

 

If the main draw of leveling alts is the class story, then not being able to change your AC makes no sense.

 

I don't have as much of an issue with grinding the same planets in the same order or redoing the side quests, BUT: Forcing me to spacebar through the same class story for 30 hours, based on an arbitrary dev decision, isn't good design.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dayfax

[MajikMyst]

Wrong. Any hybrid class in WoW will have specs that play differently from one another. There's just a big a gap between Elemental and Enhancement shamans as there are between Shadow and Sage consulars.

 

Remember that WoW has 10 classes, and only 4 are pure DPS. The majority are hybrids of one form or another. All the tanking classes are hybrids. All the healing classes are hybrids.

 

If the main draw of leveling alts is the class story, then not being able to change your AC makes no sense.

 

I don't have as much of an issue with grinding the same planets in the same order or redoing the side quests, BUT: Forcing me to spacebar through the same class story for 30 hours, based on an arbitrary dev decision, isn't good design.

 

Actually you would be incorrect.. The Paladin and Druid are the only hybrid class that can perform all 3 roles of Tank, heals, and DPS.. They are not the norm and not the rule..

 

Bioware specifically made it so there wasn't a class that can perform all three rolls.. The fact that these are continously mentioned says that people want a do it all character.. Which is sad and against the design of this game.. Perhaps they would be more happy in a different MMO.. One where there is no need for choices and all players play the same class, who can perform all the needed roles, tank, heals, and DPS.. We can even make it easier and tell them to design it so that this one do it all class uses the same gear.. We can even look the same.. Don't worry about doing the same quest over and over.. There are not quests in this game.. No story either.. That seems to be where so many people are headed with their arguements..

 

The druid and the Paladin are poor examples for this game and poor examples to use as classes..

 

The entire debate over class is a moot point anyway.. All pro-AC speccing people are trying to do is make appear they are only asking for a respec instead of an AC respec.. Is going from a Mage to a Warlock just a respec?? This is why double standards don't work.. An AC respec is a class change.. Simple as that.. It would be nice of people could at least be honest about what they are asking for.. Not try to justify it with false claims and standards that don't exist..

 

There is no reason to allow AC speccing.. There never has been and there never will be.. This game has 16 classes and class changes destroy the game.. Even WOW didn't allow class changes.. If you didn't like your character then you rerolled.. Well.. Guess what.. The same applies here.. You don't like your character then you reroll and make a new one.. Simple as that..

Edited March 4, 2012 by MajikMyst

[CorellianWannabe]

Actually you would be incorrect.. The Paladin and Druid are the only hybrid class that can perform all 3 roles of Tank, heals, and DPS.. They are not the norm and not the rule..

 

Bioware specifically made it so there wasn't a class that can perform all three rolls.. The fact that these are continously mentioned says that people want a do it all character.. Which sad and against the design of this game.. Perhaps they would be more happy in a different MMO.. One where they are industructable and can perform all rolls with one character..

 

The druid and the Paladin are poor examples for this game and poor examples to use as classes..

 

The entire debate over class is a moot point anyway.. All pro-AC speccing people are trying to do is make appear they are only asking for a respec instead of an AC respec.. Is going from a Mage to a Warlock just a respec?? This is why double standards don't work..

 

There is no reason to allow AC speccing.. There never has been and there never will be.. This game has 16 classes and class changes destroy the game.. Even WOW didn't allow class changes.. If you didn't like your character then you rerolled.. Well.. Guess what.. The same applies here.. You don't like your character then you reroll and make a new one.. Simple as that..

 

You realize that 6 out of 8 ACs in this game are hybrids right? That's a higher percentage than warcraft. As was said, enhancement shaman needs different gear and plays differently from elemental. That means they should be different classes, right?

 

Why is all 3 roles in one class a game-breaker, but 2 roles in one class is ok? Why aren't the tank and healer classes ONLY tank and heals, with specs varying from AoE heals to HoTs to direct heals or defense-based, armor-based, and ranged-based tanking? Would pure tank and heal classes be better in your view?

 

Again, if you don't like your spec then reroll-why should you be allowed to switch roles on a whim? Forcing players to reroll lengthens the amount of time they play, which is only helpful for the lifespan of the game!

[MajikMyst]

You realize that 6 out of 8 ACs in this game are hybrids right?

 

What to you is a hybrid?? To me a hybrid is a class that can both tank and heal.. All classes can DPS so it doesn't count.. Being able to tank or heal does not make a class a hybrid.. Being able to do both does..

 

So there are no hybrids in this game.. No class can both tank and heal..

 

Why is all 3 roles in one class a game-breaker, but 2 roles in one class is ok?

 

Just to clarify, DPS isn't really a roll.. All classes can DPS.. We all possess the ability to kills stuff.. Same is true for WOW and any other MMO out there.. Can you heven name an MMO where there is a class that is unable to kill something or DPS?? So the available rolls are tank and heals.. That is it.. Which means that there is no class in this game that has more than 1 roll.. As it should be.. DPS only classes really have no roll.. As anyone can DPS and all they can do is DPS..

 

Why must people have an all in one class?? Why is it a game breaker to have the role of tank and healer seperated?? Personally to me it is an issue of laziness.. It also ignores the idea that classes can perform different functions and have different skills.. Why should all classes be able to do the same things and perform the same roles??

Edited March 4, 2012 by MajikMyst

[aznthecapn]

Again, if you don't like your spec then reroll-why should you be allowed to switch roles on a whim? Forcing players to reroll lengthens the amount of time they play, which is only helpful for the lifespan of the game!

 

If advanced classes were different specs, this might hold water. It doesn't. Spec changing is a standard part of the genre and has been for a long time. Class changing is not.

[CorellianWannabe]

What to you is a hybrid?? To me a hybrid is a class that can both tank and heal.. All classes can DPS so it doesn't count.. Being able to tank or heal does not make a class a hybrid.. Being able to do both does..

 

So there are no hybrids in this game.. No class can both tank and heal..

 

 

 

Just to clarify, DPS isn't really a roll.. All classes can DPS.. We all possess the ability to kills stuff.. Same is true for WOW and any other MMO out there.. Can you heven name an MMO where there is a class that is unable to kill something or DPS?? So the available rolls are tank and heals.. That is it.. Which means that there is no class in this game that has more than 1 roll.. As it should be.. DPS only classes really have no roll.. As anyone can DPS and all they can do is DPS..

 

Why must people have an all in one class?? Why is it a game breaker to have the role of tank and healer seperated?? Personally to me it is an issue of laziness.. It also ignores the idea that classes can perform different functions and have different skills.. Why should all classes be able to do the same things and perform the same roles??

 

So a dps-only class has no role?