CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) There are enough other indicators to realise left from right without having to open map - 1. remember which side you are at when you get there 2. think which player is saying left or right and if they are nearby you 3. how many enemies are near you? does your objective look in danger, if not, it's going to be the opposite side that needs help If it's Alderaan and you are mid, most likely you will only have 2 turrets so whatever direction they call out you just see as the turret on the side you have capped. Yeah i agree. In most cases you should just be able to say "INC" and people should be able to figure it out.. In fact. I have seen it multiple times where people call out the wrong gun and people run to the correct gun. Generally i see the direction issue as needed for giving tactical advise in spawn before the match. That is really where it helps the most and that is really where left and right are the easiest to understand and why most people call out left right. My theory is that if you want folks to understand something other than right/left than you need to explain it in spawn or just use it to indicate the basic tactics wanted. Edited February 13, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I really think this boils down to people not using or not knowing how to use their mini map. I can always travel in the cardinal direction you give me by glancing at the mini-map for an instant. And so can any player. Again, left/right, snow/grass, up/down, etc is superfluous. Am I missing something? Try explaining it to people in spawn and your problem will magically go away right? Edited February 13, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanealpha Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 BW, JUST LABEL THE OBJECTIVES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. If for no other reason than just to stop these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drungus Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Screenshot from the Imp side: http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2934/screenshot2012012920241.jpg As you can see the left turret is the one we can directly access from the spawn point. Thats why I referred to it as the Imp turret. You can see why it's called the generator on the turret map in your top right corner. The crash site is pretty obvious as well. I think a discussion is pointless to be honest. Any direction will do as long as it's a fixed position and not something people can get confused (left/right) about. Edited February 13, 2012 by Drungus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckit Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I think a discussion is pointless to be honest. Any direction will do as long as it's a fixed position and not something people can get confused (left/right) about. Isn't this sorta the reason why they came up with cardinal directions all those centuries ago? To establish a fixed point of reference and not something people can get confused about (left/right)? Sweet screenshot. Might have to use that for a wallpaper! Edited February 13, 2012 by Buckit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphandor Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have realized it doesn't matter. If you are in a full PUG. People will do what they want. They do not defend. They do not use the map and they really don't bother reading the chat box. I often feel like if I say help East! A few too many of my team are thinking which way is that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Screenshot from the Imp side: http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2934/screenshot2012012920241.jpg As you can see the left turret is the one we can directly access from the spawn point. Thats why I referred to it as the Imp turret. You can see why it's called the generator on the turret map in your top right corner. The crash site is pretty obvious as well. I think a discussion is pointless to be honest. Any direction will do as long as it's a fixed position and not something people can get confused (left/right) about. So the issue is that from mid you cant see those indicators. The guys calling incoming crash! The guys in mid would need to know where those are. East/west left/right from where they are. But you can see the drop ships which should indicate immediately which way is needed as the screen shot shows. Well whatever i have tried east west and for the most part it works less than right left. The mini map... Well i moment of honesty here...... I use the minimap on VS to see the division of people. I use it on CW when running from spawn to see how many people are going left. On hutball i use it to see where the ball is. But honestly its hard enough to get people to use the left and right bikes in CW. now you want them to also pretend the minimap has cardinal directions on it? Sigh... I will try to use it and give people those instructions more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindianajones Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 East/West, no argument necessary. It's universally correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I have realized it doesn't matter. If you are in a full PUG. People will do what they want. They do not defend. They do not use the map and they really don't bother reading the chat box. I often feel like if I say help East! A few too many of my team are thinking which way is that anyway. Yeah this. I think its enough to say "inc" for the most part. If they see it they can figure it out. And still the incoming part isn't as big as an issue as saying where to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) East/West, no argument necessary. It's universally correct. without a clear reference you might as well say shows and toast. you have to explain it in spawn if you want it to work. anybody that knows what east and west means will know what left and right means. its the noobs or the learners that need to know. If you want to use those indicators then explain them in spawn. No more discussion here is needed. Edited February 13, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Seriously this thread again? The entire problem would be solved if people would simply stop being dumb and not call left or right in relation to the mini map. That is just wrong. If you use the minimap call east/west. If you refer to spawn use left right. If people just stick to that convention then everything is fine. Left and Right are not and never will be map directions. They both require the person giving the direction to know the orientation of the player. The only orientation that we know a player will have is the spawn location. Also if you are on voidstar you could use Bow/Stern Port and Starboard are not appropriate because you actually enter from the Port side and are heading Starboard towards the core of the ship. Also, played some voidstar last night and they don't say east or west on the bomb planting anymore. Just says the bomb has been planted. I had a guy call "left" in CW last night... I proceeded left from where I was and ended up on repub spawn platform then asked in ops where everyone was because I was in mid facing west when the guy called "left" and left was the repub spawn. Since you don't always know the orientation of the player making the call EAST/WEST is always superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckit Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 without a clear reference you might as well say shows and toast. you have to explain it in spawn if you want it to work. anybody that knows what east and west means will know what left and right means. its the noobs or the learners that need to know. If you want to use those indicators then explain them in spawn. No more discussion here is needed. Since when do you have to explain cardinal directions? Applying your logic, why don't we explain right and left too? There's a mini-map. It can be reasonably expected of your fellow players to understand NSEW and to look at the mini-map. Cardinal directions give vastly more directional information than left/right. You do understand this concept, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I had a guy call "left" in CW last night... I proceeded left from where I was and ended up on repub spawn platform then asked in ops where everyone was because I was in mid facing west when the guy called "left" and left was the repub spawn. Since you don't always know the orientation of the player making the call EAST/WEST is always superior. Lol. Cool story bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Since when do you have to explain cardinal directions? Applying your logic, why don't we explain right and left too? There's a mini-map. It can be reasonably expected of your fellow players to understand NSEW and to look at the mini-map. Cardinal directions give vastly more directional information than left/right. You do understand this concept, don't you? well then dont explain it and just get all pissy when people dont know what you mean. OK? Deal! Leading by ESP works too in some imaginary worlds. It can reasonably expected that when in spawn people say "2 go left rest mid" that left at any other time means the left gun from spawn. If they cant figure that out then without explaining east and west they wont get it. Edited February 13, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasarith Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I type (x) H O L, (x heading our left) (where x is the Number) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I type (x) H O L, (x heading our left) (where x is the Number) That number is likely the most useful thing that anyone can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckit Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) well then dont explain it and just get all pissy when people dont know what you mean. OK? Deal! Leading by ESP works too in some imaginary worlds. It can reasonably expected that when in spawn people say "2 go left rest mid" that left at any other time means the left gun from spawn. If they cant figure that out then without explaining east and west they wont get it. swtor.com forums...where intelligence goes to die Edited February 13, 2012 by Buckit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixonBainbridge Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 East/West, no argument necessary. It's universally correct. This. No question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvus Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Anyone in ops chat worth listening to at all will use the terms east and west as opposed to left and right. Left and right mean opposite things with regard to what you see on your screen vs what you see on your minimap and the first rule of communication is clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 swtor.com forums...where intelligence goes to die Honestly if you think it works so well then just use it. Nothing is stopping you other than yourself. Who cares if people agree with you or not. Put yourself in a position where your ops chat matters and use it. People typically expect others to be the change they want to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 East/West. People need to learn how to use their map. People need to learn directions. If someone starts using the left/right terms, I politely ask them to open their map and start using East/West instead because they're confusing people. East/West works for both factions. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) East/West. People need to learn how to use their map. People need to learn directions. If someone starts using the left/right terms, I politely ask them to open their map and start using East/West instead because they're confusing people. East/West works for both factions. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned. This is the right answer as long as it works and you believe that east west works better. Edited February 13, 2012 by CrunchyGremlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupacob Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 my server usually says snow/grass (snow being the west/left side, grass right side) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archzai Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is the right answer as long as it works and you believe that east west works better. If you have a map, like we're given in our UI, then yes East/West works better. We don't need to be TOLD which way is north to know where north is. It is naturally assumed that a map will be oriented to face north. Anyone who thinks left/right is easier is just ignorant. Thinking snow/grass is easier is ignorant too. If you give someone a map of alderaan civil war and tell them to point east/west, they can do that before even stepping into the wz, whereas they need to SEE grass and snow before they can make that connection. The lack of intelligence on this forum is mind boggling, even more so when people call players that use east/west NOOBS. Absolutely mind boggling that people are defending left/right. This thread alone clearly shows the result of cutting spending on public education and instead spending it to fight wars all over the world for oil, you end up with generations of ignorant people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckit Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Sounds like the consensus is east/west. I'm glad to hear this and hope to see it used more often in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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