LogicalPremise Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Come on you and I both know very well that basic training, as is all things military, is geared towards the bottom denominator. The military doesn't want to bring out superstars, they just want equal mediocrity for everyone, and that's what they typically get (save for a few units/branches). In the gaming world, we are all striving to find the one gem. Not 100 mediocore games, but 1 great one. A bit different from trying to find 100 joes to do latrine duty. Actually that's completely incorrect. My job was to identify the high-potential in any given group and flag them for special training, IF they showed they had the will to achieve. If not, then, and only then, did we attempt to bring everyone to a consistent level. Any person looking for the one perfect recruit or the one perfect game is a fool. No such thing exists. The potential of the game does not matter. If you enjoy it, then play. If you do not, enumerate the reasons why -- calmly, logically, rationally and ONCE -- and wait a brief amount of time to see if these are addressed. If not, find something to play that is enjoyable. What people seem to think is that if they point out the game's good points and potential enough, somehow magically people not having fun will suddenly appreciate it, which strikes me as somewhat ... well, neurotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Actually that's completely incorrect. My job was to identify the high-potential in any given group and flag them for special training, IF they showed they had the will to achieve. If not, then, and only then, did we attempt to bring everyone to a consistent level. What are you talking about? Were you ever in the military? MOS and unit and branch please. What are you talking about..."Identiify "high-potential" and "flag them for special trainining"...what??? The military is not a movie and fairy tales don't happen. Seriously. All of your training courses are contracted for when you sign your contract. You go through your pipeline of courses. If you washout at any stage, you get reassigned per the needs of the military. If you don't, then you make it to the next stage, after which you head over to your unit. Once in the unit, sure if you are talented and show the determine, you can bug your CO to be sent to special training schools (once again contingent on needs of the military). But at the very beginning, you're treating like a maggot and nothin you do in basic training will get you a berth into an airborne or SOCOM slot unless it was in your original contract. And what the heck are you going to do with that "special training?" Oooh you got an Airborne badge, please join the Delta Force (yeah right). The military is full of "five jump chumps" who never jump again after Airborne School. Air Assault? Right, how many of those guys actually ever perform an air assault, let alone serve in a unit that does air assaults? The special schools are just bait used as a recruiting ploy (you can be an Airborne Trooper, just sign right here!! woot!), and are a huge cost to the military with little to no return. So unless you were recruiting for Delta or something other secret squirrel outfit, you weren't "flagging" people for anything except maybe swabbing the deck or cleaning the latrines (you bastage). But let's be realistic. It's very hard to distinguish yourself in a regular line unit. It's just a matter of "who does'nt screw up" or "who doesn't quit" that get promoted. Scoring a perfect on the physical fitness score isn't going to land you anywhere near a Ranger unit, let alone grant you an MOS transfer into an 11B, unless maybe you agree to re-up for another 3 years, but then only if you agree to go through basic training all over again. The military excels at bringing mediocrities up to a certain standard, and punishing those who excel far beyond it. They want conformity, not outliers. Everyone gets a black beret and medals. Everyone is special. People willing to say yes when you order them to go do something stupid that will probably cost them their lives. And the last thing a CO wants is a John Wayne who think's he's got special skills running around trying to be the hero when in fact he's only going to get shot in the leg and you have to risk someone else's life to get him back to safety. Edited February 15, 2012 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Seems like a lot of companies are branching out into 'new' things with the MMO. Tera with it's aiming, GW2 with it's basically having no individual quests and much livelier combat, Secret World with it's sandboxiness, WoW with it pandas. 2012 seems to be the year of evolution for the MMO, and SwTor was released in the dying days of 2011. More variety can only be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llann Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Was this thread writen by a Lucas Arts executive? Maybe an EA investor? The desperate hope that an IP property can make a game better than another game if you just flat out copy that other game (which you also failed to do) is at best naive. At worst, it's essentially intellectual property non-theft, since you're stealing game mechanics and design (hard to patent) and repainting them. You might even have gotten away with it if you'd had a decent design/animations/interface team who didn't waste all their time trying to voiceover all the quests. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilbes Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Answer is Star Wars !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddickcz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Answer is Star Wars !! Just the fact that this is star wars, wont save this game. Make no mistake on that my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just the fact that this is star wars, wont save this game. Make no mistake on that my friend. SWG would like to speak to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What are you talking about? Were you ever in the military? MOS and unit and branch please. Appearantly you were in the Army, and if that's really how they train people there, no wonder it's such a mess. ST(Submerged) 1st Class, United States Navy. RDC at Great Lakes 89 to 90. Seriously. All of your training courses are contracted for when you sign your contract. You go through your pipeline of courses. If you washout at any stage, you get reassigned per the needs of the military. If you don't, then you make it to the next stage, after which you head over to your unit. No, that's the army, which is producing brainwashed unthinking bullet stoppers. Based on your rating, your base A and C school are usually plotted, but your follow-on C school training is pretty much up to you. OCS candidates and Seaman-to-Admiral program likelies are picked out and tagged in boot camp, and anyone wanting to go Navy SEALS, Diver, or UDT has to get a tap from both boot camp and A school, since those aren't rates but specializations for the Navy. I was very , very proud when a guy I recommended for BUDS actually made it to the SEALS. I skipped the rest of it because it literally really sounded bizzare, I've been out a LONG time but I didn't think the military had become that much of a mess. As to how this ties back to the point.... I wasn't a SpecOps recruiter, but back then people didn't really go in for that kind of stuff much. This was really before it had gotten all heavily "advertised" , before Black Hawk Down, before the Iraq War even. So we really had to find the people that we thought could perform in specialist tasks and encourage them to volunteer. That's where I measured potential, and again and again I saw guys with all the skills they needed and plenty of potential that never bothered to develop it. I think what's happening in MMO's -- no , in GAMING today -- is analogous to how the military has changed. No one cares any more, it's just about the money/mission. Everything is pushed so fast there's no room for art. You could never get a game like Starflight or Nethack out today from a big company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esquire Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 "Simple answer really: The Star Wars universe. The universe has incredible popular appeal and long-lasting popularity. The plot-line is classic and amazing as is the story. They even taught Star Wars as a classic example of an ideal plot/character development in my American lit class in prep school (a pretty preftigious one with preftigious trees and a preftigious wall)." The SOE defenders said the same thing after CU. Then, again after NGE. One more time with C6CD. In fact, some even kept saying it right up to the bitter end announcment. And it seemed that the people who defended the loudest and most were the largest "haters" towards SOE/LA at the end. They felt betrayed. I believe that SOE thought that SW would pull them thru for awhile as well, to be honest. In retrospec, after C6CD and the population droped again, this time from 100K to around 30K, I think they finaly got the idea. If this many people are chosing to leave TOR right after launch, your really not doing Bioware any favors by saying anything in this aspect that just Star Wars will save them. It's simply not true and if a gaming company relys on nothing but the IP to pull them thru, will get a rude awakening. Didn't work for SOE or Cryptic. Best bet for Bioware and SW:TOR is to get all of the problems with this game out in the open for all to see and Bioware to "fix" the issues now. The longer they wait, the more chance of an NGE on whatever remaining playerbase they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Appearantly you were in the Army, and if that's really how they train people there, no wonder it's such a mess. ST(Submerged) 1st Class, United States Navy. RDC at Great Lakes 89 to 90. No, that's the army, which is producing brainwashed unthinking bullet stoppers. Based on your rating, your base A and C school are usually plotted, but your follow-on C school training is pretty much up to you. OCS candidates and Seaman-to-Admiral program likelies are picked out and tagged in boot camp, and anyone wanting to go Navy SEALS, Diver, or UDT has to get a tap from both boot camp and A school, since those aren't rates but specializations for the Navy. I was very , very proud when a guy I recommended for BUDS actually made it to the SEALS. I skipped the rest of it because it literally really sounded bizzare, I've been out a LONG time but I didn't think the military had become that much of a mess. As to how this ties back to the point.... I wasn't a SpecOps recruiter, but back then people didn't really go in for that kind of stuff much. This was really before it had gotten all heavily "advertised" , before Black Hawk Down, before the Iraq War even. So we really had to find the people that we thought could perform in specialist tasks and encourage them to volunteer. That's where I measured potential, and again and again I saw guys with all the skills they needed and plenty of potential that never bothered to develop it. I think what's happening in MMO's -- no , in GAMING today -- is analogous to how the military has changed. No one cares any more, it's just about the money/mission. Everything is pushed so fast there's no room for art. You could never get a game like Starflight or Nethack out today from a big company. Fair enough. The Army is a mess. That's why I left . I've seen great kids get washed out of RIP indoctrination for the most minor of mistakes and great officers thrown out of units just because he didnt get along with the CO. During a joint training with other branches which included some force recon marines and SEALs, one of the force recon kids got thrown out by the OIC (Army) because they apparently shave at night and not the morning and when he was ordered to go back and shave at morning formation he made some snide comment, while same OIC let the SEALs do whatever they wanted (like singing Anchors Aweigh during formation), not to mention some who would never show up to formation or training at all (not that I could blame the ones just coming back from or heading out to a deployment). Way too much politics. Zero tolerance policy is really bs. Similar to your experience, to get a tap to head out to RIP (Ranger selection) or other specialty units, but you have to get recommended by the CO/ranking NCO. Of course if you are his best soldier and the CO does not want to lose you, he could quite realistically blue falcon you out of a spot by writing you a bad review (which often happened). And then your career is over. Edited February 17, 2012 by iheartnyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantragk Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It doesn't matter what universe it is. The game will have to stand on it's own as a game. Nothing more, nothing less. It only has as much potential as the developers have ability to program. The buck stops with them. As far is it having more potential than GW2 or WoW. At this point, it's a reskinned WoW. GW2 technically has more "potential" just from the features that is has listed. Weather or not it will pull it off... that's up to Arenanet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Simple answer really: The Star Wars universe. How long did you play Galaxies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chromiie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Man I wish military spending would get a huge cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This games potential was reached before the game was released. Then Bioware released the game. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Man I wish military spending would get a huge cut. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 SWG would like to speak to you. 300,000 subscribers isn't exactly a success. SWG was considered a failure by everyone except Star Wars fans who will swallow anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) a pretty preftigious one with preftigious trees and a preftigious wall. You said you studied literature, so I have to ask, what is this "preftigious" word you keep using? Edited February 17, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaPhone Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You said you studied literature, so I have to ask, what is this "preftigious" word you keep using? prolific + prestigious = preftigious In these preftigious schools they always mix words together so they dont have to say 'prolific and prestigious' but only say one word. One day it will be in the dictionary when enough people use it. Like the word bling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 One day it will be in the dictionary when enough people use it. Maybe. In the meantime, it's not a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrender Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I really like SWTOR, but I don't think SWTOR, WoW or GW2 has much potential. They're all variations of the same thing. Sure, GW2 is a significant departure, but not THAT far. Now, TSW (The Secret World) I think has the most potential of any future MMO. 1st: No Levels. This is refreshing. No stupid grind to end game. 2nd: No classes. No needed to reroll the flavour of the month, no need to play a defined roll. You build your class from over 500 abilities and can change it at any time. 3rd: 3 factions. Always more fun. 4th: Not fantasy. Fantasy is boring at this point. GW2 would be a much more exciting game if it wasn't "Generic fantasy world 7". Personally I hated Star Wars but I really like this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartnyc Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Maybe. In the meantime, it's not a word. Tongue in cheek my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyrdad Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 R U Kidding? even dumbed down WoW is beyond SWTOR for the next 3 years at least...not a chance...content and pvp and engame, you name it...flame if you wish. GW2 will take a great % of PVP true folks...it will be shown. SWTOR was fun as a single-player storyline...but, endgame is limited (more later, ok), but pvp sucks and reward grind is ridiculous...and, "alts" bleh, boring and boring and boring. no, loooooooooooooong ways away from WoW or GW2...SWTOR is ok, but nothing more than that..."ok"...but, not worth subs til maybe a test resub in about 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJMTL Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just like how STO has all that potential... Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just like how STO has all that potential... Oh wait... Well, it had potential but was, as far as I'm aware, ruined by bad mechanics. Just like TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drannor Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree. SWTOR has the best trailers = the best game ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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