Unoffical Cross-Server is coming to town thread

[Vlaxitov]

Let me play my way and you play your way.

 

You can already play your way. What you really mean is "let me win my way."

[Vydor_HC]

Cross realm LFG.. If it comes then I'll be going. I dislike what it turns the game into having gone through it once with wow already.

 

I guess I'll be looking for a different MMO which puts emphasis on story rather then streamlining and making as efficient as possible gear grind.

 

Mind you if I want an efficient gear grind guess I know one MMO that is doing that already.

 

-nods-

 

Sadly, I'd see myself in the same boat. I do not like what cross server aspects do to the game.

[Vlaxitov]

Do you know that the primary target of a cross server LFG is the players who have limited playtime, have odd hours or are on low population servers?

 

I would make a real money wager that these forums are flooded "not enough to do" posts 1-2 months after the LFD tool is here. The primary target thing sounds good but the actual primary beneficiary to X-LFD has always been bads who now get carried and antisocial hardcores who want to beat the game asap.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Ethern]

+10 internets to you, sir.

 

I feel the same way. If a person doesn't want to use the LFG tool, they don't have to. As long as of course they don't complain that other people want to use this amazing feature. Now, I've played WoW for 7 years and I've known a time without any LFG tools, with a LFG match maker that was server only and finally cross-server. I am the first to admit that it does change things when you're completely anonymous. For stuff that drops from the last boss, people would always need on everything and with companions in ToR, I am sure this will happen even more.

 

That being said, I believe that the benefits outweigh the hindrances that this feature causes. You remove much of the downtime you spend in fleet, looking for a group. Not all of us are on high population servers and see the cross-server LFG as the only way to get a group fast in PvE. In PvP, it greatly reduces the problem of faction imbalance. There is no way to correct faction imbalance. You can't force people to play another faction and I personally believe it would be unfair to give certain advantages to one side as a form of incentive to switch. You can however, for the most part, ignore imbalance by having the matchmaking system take players from a much bigger pool of players. Pooling all the PvP players together, you will not have Imp vs Imp Huttball 24/7.

And yet that's exactly what feeds the anti LFD stance and (lack of) arguments in this thread.

 

You as well deserve +10 internets sir.

[Ethern]

I would make a real money wager that these forums are flooded "not enough to do" posts 1-2 months after the LFD tool is here. The primary thing sounds good but the actual beneficiary to X-LFD has always been bads who now get carried and antisocial hardcores who want to win the game asap.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with that irrational hatred for a mere tool and by labeling people using it as the worst that the humanity has to offer, but I know what you deserve: to be put on ignore.

All is sure, is that bad, good, harcore, casuals, will all use the tool, for their profile correspond to what I described. Have fun with your childish arguments, I'm not reading them anymore.

[Vlaxitov]

And yet that's exactly what feeds the anti LFD stance and (lack of) arguments in this thread.

 

You as well deserve +10 internets sir.

 

And yet its this kind of rhetoric that feeds the Pro LFD stance as you ignore arguments and call that "lack of."

[Vlaxitov]

I don't know what you are trying to achieve with that irrational hatred for a mere tool and by labeling people using it as the worst that the humanity has to offer, but I know what you deserve: to be put on ignore.

All is sure, is that bad, good, harcore, casuals, will all use the tool, for their profile correspond to what I described. Have fun with your childish arguments, I'm not reading them anymore.

 

Thats right, ignore what you don't have an answer to, success!

 

Your continued rhetoric speaks in volumes.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Azalyn]

I'm not really for x-server LFG. But, if others want it fine, I just wont use it. I was never connected to the server community in WoW, so I never knew what I was missing. I just hung out with my guild. I have a great SWToR guild, but we are small, so some of us pug several HM's every night. We've never had a problem filling out our group.

 

My server has a great community and I would hate to loose it. I have a FL full of people that I've pugged FPs with and we've formed an alliance with another guild because we pugged a FP together. Also, Idk if LFG applies to PvP, but I've made a lot of friends that way too. I really hope I'm not forced into x-server PvP.

[Astron_]

You can already play your way. What you really mean is "let me win my way."

 

Hilarious. How irrational can you get really? *Gets out popcorn*

[HarassMe]

ugh...

 

a local LFG tool i can get behind, but cross-server was terrible for WoW and this will be no different.

[Quip]

I hope that with cross server LFG they make the friends and ignore lists cross server, as well a tells and grouping with people on your friends list from other servers. Blizzard hobbled theirs to protect the market for server transfers, I think it was a mistake to do so.

 

I like cross server grouping as a concept, but as always, every previous incarnation can be done better.

[Matteis]

RAWR!!!

[Kaelshi]

The key difference is that the game will likely be over much sooner for you than someone who wants to build repoire with their fellow players in any mmo. This is exactly why WoW wont die. That game had a long enough period of time that people were "roughing it" w/o a cross server auto grouping tool that it established a playerbase who had built repoire with one another thus making the game more satisfying. A portion of those people remain loyal to WoW for that exclusive reason as some leave and others find themselves adopted by these established groups as they join the game.

 

As I said before, no mmo developer will ever make a game that playing it stays satisfying for any length of time based on content alone. Its the people we play with that keep us playing.

 

 

you have no way to pove any of what you just said outside of possibly a few personal experiences(out of 10+ million people the 10 you know who say the community is dead aiyyyee! aren't proof of anything).

 

For me - the LFG tool in WoW made the game incredibly more satisfying because I could do content that I was not able to do as a casual player beforehand.

 

For every person you could produce who complains about the stuff anti-xserver ppl do, I could produce 1 who feels exactly like I do.

 

Most of your people though are likely hardcore players who want to feel superior to others because of their gear score and crapped their pants when a casual player like me could obtain heroics and get close to their score even though they could still run higher end raids I couldnt)

[Ethern]

I hope that with cross server LFG they make the friends and ignore lists cross server, as well a tells and grouping with people on your friends list from other servers. Blizzard hobbled theirs to protect the market for server transfers, I think it was a mistake to do so.

 

I like cross server grouping as a concept, but as always, every previous incarnation can be done better.

Words of wisdom. TOR's version does not have to be a copy of WoW's version.

Many oppose the tool in its WoW's version, and give zero chance to any other form of cross server LFG. Ridiculous.

[chton]

I guess bottom line for me is: I want a LFG tool, I want a Cross-Server LFG tool. Do I need an exact copy of WoW's anything? Not at all. Does me wanting it mean I want your way of playing completely obliterated? No. Do our ideas of how one can/should play a MMO differ wildly? Probably. But do I feel that any argument about "community", "reputation", or "socializing in a MMO" are valid enough that I should be denied this tool? Sorry, I don't. I am totally open to compromise, I am not open to "My way or No Way". I really don't mean for that to sound combative.

 

I love how people say you can just not use it, but then if most other people are using it you are SoL. But that's not a problem for the people who want the tool. It's nice to just get your way and ignore anyone else's concerns. Exactly why it's so anti social.

I just am glad I no longer would have any pressure to follow loot rules or not just drop if things are going bad. If it's wasn't X server I might be concerned about reputation, but the great part is these folks don't care who they play with and will likely act the same way. I always say PUGs are terrible but at least X server PUGS you can just treat them like dirt and not worry.

I'm sure people will read this as sarcasm or passive aggresive, but sadly it's not. I will likely never see a x server player again so it removes all need to act like I would. You are just a tool to get something and I will need on everything and sell what I don't need. I will leave group at the drop of a hat to run with guildies or when I've got what I need. I welcome the removal of any social pressure to act like a decent human.

I guess that's why so many people like the tool of course they won't be honest and say it.

[Ethern]

I love how people say you can just not use it, but then if most other people are using it you are SoL. But that's not a problem for the people who want the tool. It's nice to just get your way and ignore anyone else's concerns. Exactly why it's so anti social.

I just am glad I no longer would have any pressure to follow loot rules or not just drop if things are going bad. If it's wasn't X server I might be concerned about reputation, but the great part is these folks don't care who they play with and will likely act the same way. I always say PUGs are terrible but at least X server PUGS you can just treat them like dirt and not worry.

I'm sure people will read this as sarcasm or passive aggresive, but sadly it's not. I will likely never see a x server player again so it removes all need to act like I would. You are just a tool to get something and I will need on everything and sell what I don't need. I will leave group at the drop of a hat to run with guildies or when I've got what I need. I welcome the removal of any social pressure to act like a decent human.

I guess that's why so many people like the tool of course they won't be honest and say it.

1. You are indeed not forced to use it. Use your friend/guild list, and the old ways to find a spam group. If the majority uses the tool, then it speaks volume, and why would you deny the majority such use?

2. Ninja looting and lack of accountability is easily addressed-TOR tool does not have to be a copy of WoW's tool

3. People who use the tool are not antisocial players. They have just a more limited playtime or are playing at odd hours, or have befriended their whole low population servers, but guess what, your friends or guilders are not at your disposal, so if you nevertheless want to run some group content, you can use the LFG tool.

[Liathan]

I'm all for a LFG tool, I skipped many a FP on my way to 50 and having been 50 for over a week now I still have yet to do 1 FP. I would have preferred that they kept it server only for a little while so we could see what servers really do and do not need x-server with queue's being too long due to low populations.

[Touchbass]

Words of wisdom. TOR's version does not have to be a copy of WoW's version.

Many oppose the tool in its WoW's version, and give zero chance to any other form of cross server LFG. Ridiculous.

 

There is plenty of room to improve the tool. For instance when you complete an instance you recieve 1 social point, if you complete said instance without kicking someone you recieve 2 social points total for the run. Theoretically after enough time has passed the players who are good to group with will be hovering around the same mark. This could ensure a strong enough deterrent not to perform bad behaviour as you'll be stuck with "that guy'. Unfortunately a voting/ranking system probably won't work due to abuse, it has to be some performance indictator attached soley to the player.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Touchbass

[Liathan]

I love how people say you can just not use it, but then if most other people are using it you are SoL. But that's not a problem for the people who want the tool. It's nice to just get your way and ignore anyone else's concerns. Exactly why it's so anti social.

I just am glad I no longer would have any pressure to follow loot rules or not just drop if things are going bad. If it's wasn't X server I might be concerned about reputation, but the great part is these folks don't care who they play with and will likely act the same way. I always say PUGs are terrible but at least X server PUGS you can just treat them like dirt and not worry.

I'm sure people will read this as sarcasm or passive aggresive, but sadly it's not. I will likely never see a x server player again so it removes all need to act like I would. You are just a tool to get something and I will need on everything and sell what I don't need. I will leave group at the drop of a hat to run with guildies or when I've got what I need. I welcome the removal of any social pressure to act like a decent human.

I guess that's why so many people like the tool of course they won't be honest and say it.

 

So making sure no one can use it, which according to you the majority of people will, that's not ignoring other people's concerns?

 

Also, one bad person does not make everyone bad. Yes, you will have some people who are tools and act the way you have apparently decided you are going to act since it's easier to throw a tantrum and behave like a child, then to behave like an adult and decent human being like the majority of players do.

[Ethern]

There is plenty of room to improve the tool. For instance when you complete an instance you recieve 1 social point, if you complete said instance without kicking someone you recieve 2 social points total for the run. Theoretically after enough time has passed the players who are good to group with will be hovering around the same mark. This could ensure a strong enough deterrent not to perform bad behaviour as you'll be stuck with "that guy'. Unfortunately a voting/ranking system probably won't work due to abuse, it has to be some performance indictator attached soley to the player.

There are many ways indeed. I'm not sure about this suggestion but itself can be improved.That's an idea, I for one think that the social system is underused. So far you are only rewarded for being grouped and winning convo choices. It can be used for a good behaviour indicator. And indeed it can be subject to abuses.

 

We also have the legacy name which is tied to account, and is cross server. The developers can use the same code for a cross server blacklist by example.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ethern

[chton]

1. You are indeed not forced to use it. Use your friend/guild list, and the old ways to find a spam group. If the majority uses the tool, then it speaks volume, and why would you deny the majority such use?

2. Ninja looting and lack of accountability is easily addressed-TOR tool does not have to be a copy of WoW's tool

3. People who use the tool are not antisocial players. They have just a more limited playtime or are playing at odd hours, or have befriended their whole low population servers, but guess what, your friends or guilders are not at your disposal, so if you nevertheless want to run some group content, you can use the LFG tool.

 

I'm not against it. There won't be any tools to stop ninjaing, if they are they'll be something stupid like the Ops that randomly assign loot which is worse. Stop generalizing, these people probably haven't even bothered to try to group they are parroting what they hear. Many of them are people who can't find groups because they act like tools, but no worries now.

I love the idea if everyone's using it it must be great, thus why not just copy everything but the skins from WoW as 10 million people can't be wrong.

Its hard to argue against convenience because that pretty much trumps everything these days. I'm all for it. Of course next will be the cries of nothing to do. I'm not defending the difficulty of finding groups as a substitute for content but can we all agree that will be the next big whine after this is added? Probably not because neither side here can be rational.

Again I'm all X server LFG tool. My reasons may not jibe with yours but that's fine. See I don't have to care about you anymore.

[Aharx]

Which dungeons were nerfed many times before LFD? I can say that the addition of LFD has resulted in the dumbing down of all content associated with it in every mmo I've ever played and I've tried alot of them.

 

Agreed. Part of the challenge is trying to form a group that would work. I've never played WoW. I've only played SWG, LOTRO, and now SWTOR. LOTRO we would spend a great effort in trying to form the 'perfect' group to do Raids. Swapping specs several times in a raid, people logging in alt' characters if their other one wasn't working, that's part of the fun in an MMO. Instead of choosing the cookie cutter approach of having a system assign certain players to form said perfect group.

[Ethern]

I'm not against it. There won't be any tools to stop ninjaing, if they are they'll be something stupid like the Ops that randomly assign loot which is worse. Stop generalizing, these people probably haven't even bothered to try to group they are parroting what they hear. Many of them are people who can't find groups because they act like tools, but no worries now.

I love the idea if everyone's using it it must be great, thus why not just copy everything but the skins from WoW as 10 million people can't be wrong.

Its hard to argue against convenience because that pretty much trumps everything these days. I'm all for it. Of course next will be the cries of nothing to do. I'm not defending the difficulty of finding groups as a substitute for content but can we all agree that will be the next big whine after this is added? Probably not because neither side here can be rational.

Again I'm all X server LFG tool. My reasons may not jibe with yours but that's fine. See I don't have to care about you anymore.

I'm not sure you have read my post, honestly.

The majority wanting a cross server LFG tool abo****ely does not want a carbon copy of WoW's tool.

You tell me to stop generalizing, but I am not, since I enumerated several profiles, and there are more.

You are the one generalizing here twice. That's not really convincing, particularly for developers reading your posts and looking for feedbacks.

 

You won't make me believe that the majority of people who want a LFG tool has not tried to do group content for countless hours. Many posted here to report that they were fed up spamming the LFG channels, whispering people for no results.

 

I question the value of your contribution, greatly.

[Liathan]

Agreed. Part of the challenge is trying to form a group that would work. I've never played WoW. I've only played SWG, LOTRO, and now SWTOR. LOTRO we would spend a great effort in trying to form the 'perfect' group to do Raids. Swapping specs several times in a raid, people logging in alt' characters if their other one wasn't working, that's part of the fun in an MMO. Instead of choosing the cookie cutter approach of having a system assign certain players to form said perfect group.

 

What you're describing is tedium, not fun. Fun is getting together with some people and then going to kill some stuff. That's fun. Allowing people to fight or forcing them to sit on a per encounter basis is just dumb. I experienced it plenty in Vanilla and TBC WoW where the guilds I were in only brought 1 hunter, max 2, to a fight, having to sit out a boss and then hearing that the item you really wanted dropped and some one else got the item you wanted most is not fun or exciting, it's poor design and the type of thing that makes people quite games.

[dahlatiel]

Before i start i must say that imho a x-lfg can be a good, and a bad thing depending on how it is implemented.

As i see it, it has the benefit of easier grouping, with the downside of having most of the bad players (from ninjas to griefers) being catered for, with no accountability whatsoever.

 

But the biggest problem in the 116 pages of this thread so far is that most of the people that asks for a x-lfg tool don't even understand what an MMO is and even less what a RPG is.

 

As for the former that is a hard thing to define, since there are many interpretations of it. For some people it is a gathering place, for others a way to get their e-pen exercised. There are many ways to gather a large number of players to "exist" in a determined setting and usually they give that setting the definition of MMO.

 

As for the RPG part, that is where the thing gets complicated, as most of the "new player generation" don't even have a clue about what it mean realy.

As an RPGer from long time, from pen-and-paper, to board games, card games, and of course computer games I have a few words to say about the meaning of it.

 

In a "conventional" RPG the amount of effort is offset by the quality of the rewards gained.

 

What was made in WoW, and a few other games, was to take away the effort/reward ratio based on the whining of people that wanted the later without the former. This started long before the x-lfg tools, but got much aggravated with the introduction of the tool, as content was tuned down, so that every one had the chance to get the top gear without the trouble to get it.

 

Still remember seeing a "purple item" and thinking "wow, i need to get better to be able to get it". Nowadays, it is common place, the "epic" just became common place, a niche occupied in the not too far back by the uncommon gear (the called green items).

 

Even creating various ranks in the "epics" the reward >>>>> effort to get it.

 

As i see it, x-lfg might work in a normal leveling system, but should never be implemented on the hard modes or operations. those should require enough coordination to require a pre-made group with communication to be able to complete.