Wolfshead.com's SWTOR Review: MMORPG Design & Commentary

[krinaman]

If you go by the conventions of the genre then no, this is not a MMO as designated by it's predecessors.

Nor is WoW now.

It was in the past but they have changed it so it can be played without ever interacting with other players.

 

MMORPG's are defined by their necessary interaction with other players either to accomplish goals or for socialisation. TOR requires neither nor does it facilitate either.

 

So here's the problem, you are using a different definition of the word "MMORPG" than the vast majority use.

 

If you simply said, "I want forced grouping" we would all understand you.

 

But that said, end game is almost all group content.

[DTuloJr]

Well, according to EA's SEC filings, SWTOR is an MMORPG. So whether we agree it meets that designation or not is beside the point; EA legal tells us it is. It must be true. Other than that, it's a single player role playing game, with 8 distinct story lines, offering online multiplayer cooperative play. When they add some more sandbox elements, and let players actually sit down in every single chair that's present, then we'll see about reclassifying it, appropriately.

[Laeris]

"I have played about 20 levels of SWTOR and this review is by no means complete or comprehensive. It is just my thoughts based on my limited experiences. However, I’ve spent enough time playing MMOs to know if I’m going to like a MMO within short order."

 

In this OP's defense, I have to admit that after 20, the game only gets worse.

[Xaeberain]

What conventions of the genre?

 

WoW never required grouping to level. Neither did LOTRO.

 

In Vanilla WoW you could level to 60 by yourself but it would take 5x as long to accomplish and you wouldn't have any decent gear once you reached the cap preventing you from doing any top level content. Since you'd miss out of a solid 2/3 of the game if you didn't group or interact it was neccesary to interact in order to experience what it offered.

 

In TOR, by Bioware's own admission, the game is all about your class story. 95% of all the content is solo content. You'll end up with the same gear if you solo level or group when you hit 50.

Socialising is not even a footnote in TOR. It's darn hard to socialise much when you're spending 50% of your time in cut-scenes with NPC's. This is illustrated by the lack of text on the chat screen unless someone is trying in vain to get a group for a heroic.

 

How often do you see people recruiting for guilds? On my server I think someone last week was spamming a little but none since then. What's the point of a guild if there's so little group content and virtually no reason or initiative to socialise.

 

These things are staples of the MMO genre and they're just not here like they should be. This game was designed not to facilitate these things. So you tell me how it is a MMORPG?

 

So here's the problem, you are using a different definition of the word "MMORPG" than the vast majority use.

 

If you simply said, "I want forced grouping" we would all understand you.

 

But that said, end game is almost all group content.

Forced grouping? Forced is such a strong word. Neccesary grouping works better for me.

Make it easy to group and then make content that is very lucrative to complete and requires grouping.

Right now the group content is just a little more xp and has no real benefit or reason to complete.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Xaeberain

[Traumahawk]

In this OP's defense, I have to admit that after 20, the game only gets worse.

 

I won't argue that and I think he would have had a more convincing argument had he put in some more time.

[PeacefulViolence]

Good review, glad to see one where it isn't just praising this unfinished game.

[Laeris]

IT's kinda sad too... I have 2 L50s. My server is populous but queue times are extraordinarily long for PvP queues and I have only gotten into 2 hard mode dungeons in the past 3 weeks (nobody does them... dwindling population of L50s). So, I rolled a new alt and ranked him to 50. I think I found a group for a 4 man heroic once on Hoth the entire time I was leveling.

 

The problem for me with SWTOR is primarily stagnant content at 50. There's something to do in theory... but nobody on my server does them it seems. I don't pay 15 bucks a month to rot on the fleet station. Cross-server LFG queues will help this a lot... but another thing the 2nd 50 taught me:

 

The Empire and Republic generic quests are carbon copies of one another. I'm not rolling another alt just to see a few snippets of a new storyline and some 14yr old gradeschool romance stories interspersed by long periods of the exact same stagnant content.

 

So yeah, I mashed the unsub button on 20 Jan... and I haven't played in 2 weeks.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Laeris

[SamuraBob_Fl]

In Vanilla WoW you could level to 60 by yourself but it would take 5x as long to accomplish and you wouldn't have any decent gear once you reached the cap preventing you from doing any top level content. Since you'd miss out of a solid 2/3 of the game if you didn't group or interact it was neccesary to interact in order to experience what it offered.

 

In TOR, by Bioware's own admission, the game is all about your class story. 95% of all the content is solo content. You'll end up with the same gear if you solo level or group when you hit 50.

Socialising is not even a footnote in TOR. It's darn hard to socialise much when you're spending 50% of your time in cut-scenes with NPC's. This is illustrated by the lack of text on the chat screen unless someone is trying in vain to get a group for a heroic.

 

How often do you see people recruiting for guilds? On my server I think someone last week was spamming a little but none since then. What's the point of a guild if there's so little group content and virtually no reason or initiative to socialise.

 

These things are staples of the MMO genre and they're just not here like they should be. This game was designed not to facilitate these things. So you tell me how it is a MMORPG?

 

That's not true. There was no real benefit to grouping in WoW while leveling unless you wanted to do instances... just like TOR.

 

In TOR you still need to group to get gear past 50.

 

No, I don't see a lot of guild recruiting going on, but then again my guild came over from WoW, a lot people I know already have established guilds from either other games or the pre-launch guild thing.

[DTuloJr]

Bioware and EA are doing happy dances right now the fastest growing MMO ever 1.7 million and growing (the guys from TOR WARS says they will probably announce 2.5 million soon) 3 GOTY awards over 150 industry awards thirty gushing reviews....yeah guy they are in a panic.

 

They were getting industry rewards before the game ever went into closed beta. Most of those awards mean absolutely nothing, and were given in order for the website/reviewer to obtain recognition for themselves or by EA/BioWare with free plublicity. The game received various "game of the year!" awards prior to it actually launching, and prior to anyone actually voting in a large scale poll. It received glowing, gushing reviews from press that were scared of EA's marketing staff (oh no, they'll never let us review their products again! must bribe them with gushing reviews, as always!). The simple fact is that the numbers that have been released are very carefully massaged. The 3 and 6 month numbers are what will actually matter. Personally, I hope that they DO reach a 2.5 and 6 million subscriber mark.

 

Unfortunately, they released a mediocre product and were encouraged to do so by paying attention to the gushing opinions and ignoring those that actually pointed out the problems that they had. The same problems that they're now having to go back and fix, that they never should have code released with.

 

BioWare Austin was given a major benefit of the doubt by a lot of people because of the name BioWare being associated with them (it is NOT comprised of the same people that brought us Mass Effect and Dragon's Age). They hurt themselves by releasing the game with all of the problems that it currently has.

 

Deny it all you want, that doesn't make it any less true. Seriously. What do fanboys that attack anyone with any minute shred of criticism actually think they're accomplishing or hope to achieve? A job at BioWare? Some special achievement award for rudest post? The only thing that is accomplished is that the long-term prospects of the game are hurt when opinion that can be used to help improve the game is shouted down or ignored. Then, everyone loses.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[DTuloJr]

The Empire and Republic generic quests are carbon copies of one another. I'm not rolling another alt just to see a few snippets of a new storyline and some 14yr old gradeschool romance stories interspersed by long periods of the exact same stagnant content.

 

So yeah, I mashed the unsub button on 20 Jan... and I haven't played in 2 weeks.

 

Amature game design 101; carbon copy = balance.

 

This is what comes from catering to a PVP crowd, first and foremost.

[Xaeberain]

That's not true. There was no real benefit to grouping in WoW while leveling unless you wanted to do instances... just like TOR.

 

In TOR you still need to group to get gear past 50.

 

No, I don't see a lot of guild recruiting going on, but then again my guild came over from WoW, a lot people I know already have established guilds from either other games or the pre-launch guild thing.

 

Not true, there was benefit to grouping in WoW, better loot, better gear. Better gear meant easier leveling and higher damage in PVP.

That is not the case in TOR. I've done several heroics and haven't seen anything nice for loot drop, ever. So there's no bait to hook me in to doing them. So why waste time spamming for a group for an hour for what...a couple bars of xp?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Xaeberain

[SamuraBob_Fl]

Not true, there was benefit to grouping in WoW, better loot, better gear. Better gear meant easier leveling and higher damage in PVP.

That is not the case in TOR. I've done seevral heroics and haven't seen anything nice for loot drop, ever. So there's no bait to hook me in to doing them. So why waste time spamming for a group for an hour for what...a couple bars of xp?

 

The benefit from grouping in WoW was from doing instances.

 

You do get better gear in TOR from doing instances. I'm sorry your luck with loot has been bad, but that's the RNG.

[DrJawaPhD]

Wait so the guy played up to level 20 and then wrote a review on it? I'm not even reading past that sentence because the entire review is a waste of time.

 

There are alot (and I mean a LOT) of things wrong with SWTOR, but you can't tell squat from playing 1 day up to level 20

[Xaeberain]

The benefit from grouping in WoW was from doing instances.

 

You do get better gear in TOR from doing instances. I'm sorry your luck with loot has been bad, but that's the RNG.

 

I have a full set of orange gear on most of my characters which I upgrade with commendation gear from the vendors.

You're telling me that there is better loot in heroics than the oranges I have and better upgrades than the commendation ones?

There might be better upgrades that drop but I've yet to see any that were so much better or even equal to what I already had that I would go out of my way to find a group to do them.

Maybe you're right and there's stuff that is much better but I find it hard to believe that after doing as many heroics as I have and wasteing as much time getting groups as I have that nothing substantial has ever dropped.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I have a full set of orange gear on most of my characters which I upgrade with commendation gear from the vendors.

You're telling me that there is better loot in heroics than the oranges I have and better upgrades than the commendation ones?

There might be better upgrades that drop but I've yet to see any that were so much better or even equal to what I already had that I would go out of my way to find a group to do them.

Maybe you're right and there's stuff that is much better but I find it hard to believe that after doing as many heroics as I have and wasteing as much time getting groups as I have that nothing substantial has ever dropped.

 

It depends on the slot. You get better belt/bracers/earpieces etc... Or just different orange gear or for slots you didn't have before.

[KhealThar]

Bioware has also opted to use the familiar two faction system employed by WoW with the Empire and the Republic.

 

 

haha, stopped reading there. Guy is clueless.

[Oceanzen]

Whether or not you agree with him all the time, Wolfshead is a VERY thoughtful and intelligent MMO blog. He's definitely old school, and it's not for everyone, but I have to agree with this:

 

"...a sense of entitlement among players that every ounce of content is theirs by right to experience regardless of skill level or commitment. Instead of being viewed as citizens of a virtual world, players are now seen as amusement park customers and treated as such."

 

This is what is destroying the genre, because when you go from being a citizen of a virtual world to a customer in a theme park, there is no more world and there is no more mmo.

 

It's just a huge RPG that other people happen to be playing at the same time, which is exactly what SWTOR is.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Oceanzen

[Xaeberain]

It depends on the slot. You get better belt/bracers/earpieces etc... Or just different orange gear or for slots you didn't have before.

 

I usually just find a set of orange gear that I really like the look of and upgrade it. 90% of it was from quest rewards. The other 10% dropped on random npc's.

I would like to think that doing heroics and FP's was worthwhile but comparativly speaking I've not heard of anyone my level with better gear than mine.

I truly feel like I'm being force fed nice gear that only requires me to do the class stories to get and it's the same gear everyone else is getting from the same quests.

 

I'll stop trying to convince people that this isn't a MMO but they need to look at it how it really is and realise that somthing is amiss in this game and it isn't a bug or a design oversite, it's how the game was intentionally built.

[wifeaggro]

He was right ine one area.It's not a true MMO in the old sense. It wont crash and burn enough casuals will stay subbed on class story lines in the short term . i see a big burn off in 90 days though. Personally im done with MMO's that give you a hamster habit lvling expierence and put you in a single group end game hamster wheel. Ill stick to single player games from now on im not paying 15 bucks amonth to pplay DA on line with a star wars skin. People call this a WOW clone its nothing like WOW's game world . it just copies its mechanics and throws them in a massive BW single player game. adds 2 giant faction lobbies and calls it a MMO

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I'll stop trying to convince people that this isn't a MMO but they need to look at it how it really is and realise that somthing is amiss in this game and it isn't a bug or a design oversite, it's how the game was intentionally built.

 

Honestly I think you've hit the nail on the head as to why the general argument is kind of pointless.

 

I see how the game was intentionally built, and I quite like it. Some people don't, but you can't change the game for each individual. They can add features and content and whatnot, but ultimately it's either a design you enjoy or it isn't.

[Xaeberain]

Bioware Austin is comprised of some Bioware staff and a load of Mythic Entertainment staff.

Why they would put the same MMO devs that gave us the terrible train wreck Warhammer Online on a new 300million dollar MMO is beyond my comprehension.

People are people. They may try to improve themselves but in the end the same egos and flaws will surface because they have to be who they are.

So here we are again with another piss poor MMO(yes I called it an MMO) produced by the same guys who made the last piss poor MMO.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Xaeberain

[Paralassa]

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[Thaed]

I opened it in a new tab. Said tab contains '$300 Million'.

 

Tell me why I should bother to click on the tab and read the article when the title itself contains false information.

 

 

Edit: Haha, he's complaining about the lack of challange calling it a 'constant theme' and he's only leveled to 20.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Thaed

[Jett-Rinn]

Bioware Austin is comprised of some Bioware staff and a load of Mythic Entertainment staff.

Why they would put the same MMO devs that gave us the terrible train wreck Warhammer Online on a new 300million dollar MMO is beyond my comprehension.

People are people. They may try to improve themselves but in the end the same egos and flaws will surface because they have to be who they are.

So here we are again with another piss poor MMO produced by the same guys who made the last piss poor MMO.

 

See more misinformation....why does the hate machine constantly spew out made up facts when they know they are going to get called on it...do you actually believe people are that gulible?

 

There are not that many Mythic employees at Bioware Austin; The vast majority of employees are those that worked on KOTOR, Baldurs Gate Neverwinter and Dragon Age.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[SamuraBob_Fl]

I opened it in a new tab. Said tab contains '$300 Million'.

 

Tell me why I should bother to click on the tab and read the article when the title itself contains false information.

 

 

Edit: Haha, he's complaining about the lack of challange calling it a 'constant theme' and he's only leveled to 20.

 

It's basically a rehash of 1/2 of the complaint, that TOR is not Everquest.

 

(The other major problem with TOR is that it isn't Galaxies, apparently.)