Niamton Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I have played quite a few MMO's over the years and I just wanted to throw my opinion out there and discuss any agreements or disagreements about swtor. Not being one for story in a mmo (click, click, just give me the quest already), I will have to say that the class quests in this game has me hooked! As an alt-aholic this gives me giddy waves of joy!! Once I hit lvl cap and can't find anything to do, well start an alt and watch his story unfold... I like it. This game has the best (imo) story mode of any mmo (and a few single player games) that I have played. I have noticed a trend in MMO's lately that didn't start with this game, but is certainly prevalent. Solo-ability to cap and as quick as possible. At the rate i'm going I will probably hit my cap before I get charged for my first month. This is a double edged sword for me. Sure I like that I don't HAVE to group to level up, and with this type of system the grind is almost eleminated. But for a subscription based service, I don't know if I will spend the wow like amount of time at the endgame, grinding out the same raids, pvp, or dailies for new gear and such. One of my favorite mmo's is EQ2 (and please this is an opinion, so lets not make this a discussion on how much SOE sucks), and, to me, the journey is as fun as the endgame. Subscribing to that game wasn't a bother to me, because I felt like I was getting the most time out of my money. It would take months for even some hardcore players to get to cap (I am talking the early days, takes a lot less time now). I like the crafting system. I have played everything from active crafting (eq2) where you actually have to pay attention to what your doing, and find creative ways not to fall asleep at the keyboard, passive crafting (aion was good for this) where you just load up on mats and let your character craft while you do the laundry. There are more games I have played, but those seem like the two extreams (and dont even talk to me about vanguard lol). This system seems to have the nice balance of getting stuff done crafting wise, while your character can still do stuff on his own... To me that strikes a good balance. Thats all I have now, but I am still just a few days in the game, what else do the Vets think? If you disagree thats fine, but keep the flames at a minimum. These are just some opinions I have developed so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreossk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) My thoughts are in the link in my sig (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=216855). To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet Edited February 13, 2012 by Dreossk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My biggest knock is the game is too easy and forgiving. Gear is gained too easily. Content is cleared too easily. This leads to the complaints you see from some about having nothing to do at 50. I also think that a MMO based on people having to roll alts is not a great long term strat for a sub based MMO. That said, I understand that BW is positioning the game to be just that. The easiest, most accessible MMO on the market. Some 'MMO vets' may not take to that well and may not stick with this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) the game will -hopefully- eventually be good. when i come back in 6 months i'll find out. the crafting in this game is hideous. RNG recipe acquisition is pretty harsh. it also sucks that i can't do my own crafting. i'm the one paying to learn the recipe, and yet all of my crewmates can make the stuff but i can't? should be able to send EVERYONE out on gathering missions and still be able to find a crafting station somewhere where I can make the stuff i want to make myself. they say there are improvements coming for crafting. like i said, i'll find out in 6 months. the game lacks basic polish, lacks virtually every gaming innovation developed within the last 7 years, lacks meaningful stuff for a solo player to do while waiting around for guild scheduled events, and lacks a lot of other stuff that many other mmo's have, and did have at launch. i personally hope they fire at least 3/4 of the people who developed this game, hire some people who ACTUALLY KNOW what an mmo is, and get to fixing all the broken stuff. if they don't do it soon, i fear when i come back in 6 months i won't even have to pay to play. and that will suck. Edited February 12, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My biggest knock is the game is too easy and forgiving. We can thank WoW for that. No, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We can thank WoW for that. No, really... No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I don't think the crafting is good at all. It requires no thought, no imagination... most of all it is pointless. The game gives you everything you need via quest rewards and commendation rewards. There's no use in crafting to sell stuff on the GTN and make credits. credits are useless, there is nothing to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We can thank WoW for that. No, really... Completely agree it is WOW's doing. But BW has made this game even easier. It's 'WOW-light' on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackumDog Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 weather was a pretty cool thing in other MMOs, and the basic concept there were public quests that everyone needed, and you got points for attending, then you could bid on the dropped items; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abanoth Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I think this could have been a kickass single-player game, it would have blown Skyrim out of the water if they focused on making it Kotor 3 instead of Space WoW. Still pretty good, but not on par with Mass Effect. I played EVE online before I came here, so I actually don't mind going out to make my own content when I hit 50, but I recognize that once you "finish" your story right now, there's more incentive to go back and start another one than continuing on with "end game" content. Basically, they've got about 8 months to make 50 worth playing than rolling alts imo, because that's how long it will take most of their playerbase to max out all 8 classes and see both faction's storylines. Edited February 12, 2012 by Abanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Completely agree it is WOW's doing. But BW has made this game even easier. It's 'WOW-light' on so many levels. without the carbonation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Been gaming since the Atari 2600. Frogger, Asteroids, etc., that era. I really enjoy the class quests, best part of the game IMO. I just wish they were a (MUCH) larger percentage of the overall quests. The crafting is somewhat fun but could use some tweaks, particularly the interface. Heck, if I could just figure out how to have my list of craftable items not show any greys, it'd be better. The game is plenty solo-friendly, but even for MMOs it's difficult for me to find one that's solo-friendly enough. After 4 alts I still abandon somewhere between 95 and 100% of the heroic quests, particularly the planetary 4-mans. I'm still waiting for ONE development team to invent a endgame that doesn't require forced grouping for gear progression. The leveling is 50/50 for me. Today I was doing a level 40 mission inside yet another nameless enemy base and upon entering I was dismayed to find I had to slog my way through dozens of trash mobs to reach the mission goal. Honestly, most of the time, I prefer to run/die my way there. That fact alone is rather telling. One issue I have with leveling is that with the moddable items, there is very close to zero chance that a trash mob is going to drop anything that's actually useful to me. Any green/blue that drops I don't even bother examining but I'm certain it's inferior to what I'm already wearing, and this is true from level 10 up. This completely undermines any 'thrill' there is to seeing a monster drop a 'magic' item. If I could make one change to the game, add a LOT more class quests to give us some alternate paths. It's like this game has most of the features of BW's great single-player games, with the annoyances (and few of the benefits) of MMOs thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really ...yea, who invited and incubated said casuals? What game? No, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offem Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I have to agree that the crafting is the worst ive played in a MMO IMO, its so bad that i dont even bother lvling crafting or gathering anymore, its completely pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizwolf Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 AC1 had me hooked for years. Didn't finish everything before I quit. WoW had me hooked for years. Didn't finish everything before I quit. Swtor had me hooked for 2 months. Finished everything. Nothing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanshan Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet /agreed Game play is okay and needs some work, but a more interactive world and more fluff is better. 8 year yet here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Completely agree it is WOW's doing. But BW has made this game even easier. It's 'WOW-light' on so many levels. WoW did it because all the casuals cried foul play and unfair treatment. If they would have just told then to just suck it up and play the part of the game designed for you then it would have been just fine. Dont blame a company (WoW) for doing something that another company (SWTOR) is doing the exact same thing. The best thing for SWTOR to do is tell all the "casuals" to either play the game the way we design it or go play WoW. Grow some balls and use them. You give in to them once and they will just step all over you while destroying your game but they dont care because they can just move onto another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We can thank WoW for that. No, really... Onyxia and MC are certainly alot more difficult than the current swtor endgame content. A big difference is that the endgame content released back then was relatively new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Been gaming since the Atari 2600. Frogger, Asteroids, etc., that era. I really enjoy the class quests, best part of the game IMO. I just wish they were a (MUCH) larger percentage of the overall quests. The crafting is somewhat fun but could use some tweaks, particularly the interface. Heck, if I could just figure out how to have my list of craftable items not show any greys, it'd be better. The game is plenty solo-friendly, but even for MMOs it's difficult for me to find one that's solo-friendly enough. After 4 alts I still abandon somewhere between 95 and 100% of the heroic quests, particularly the planetary 4-mans. I'm still waiting for ONE development team to invent a endgame that doesn't require forced grouping for gear progression. The leveling is 50/50 for me. Today I was doing a level 40 mission inside yet another nameless enemy base and upon entering I was dismayed to find I had to slog my way through dozens of trash mobs to reach the mission goal. Honestly, most of the time, I prefer to run/die my way there. That fact alone is rather telling. One issue I have with leveling is that with the moddable items, there is very close to zero chance that a trash mob is going to drop anything that's actually useful to me. Any green/blue that drops I don't even bother examining but I'm certain it's inferior to what I'm already wearing, and this is true from level 10 up. This completely undermines any 'thrill' there is to seeing a monster drop a 'magic' item. If I could make one change to the game, add a LOT more class quests to give us some alternate paths. It's like this game has most of the features of BW's great single-player games, with the annoyances (and few of the benefits) of MMOs thrown in. If being around other people annoys you, and the aspects that make MMO's what they are are really that offensive to you... maybe stick to single-player RPG's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrolepsy Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My thoughts are in the link in my sig. To that post, add this: - No day/night cycle - No swimming - No housing - No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc... - Dumbed down character creation - No post-creation character customization - No appearance tab/outfit system - No high res textures - No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...) - Simple combat with static enemies - Unconvincing and stiff animations - Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around - No collision detection - No stats on resources - No crafting customization - Restriction in choice of starship - No ship decoration - Dumbed down space combat - No multiplayer space combat - Removal of many races - No faction change/neutrality - Restriction and instanced planets by faction - Less planets than announced - Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back - No GM events - Removal of choice to kill companion - Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times - No RP tools - Nothing to do post-story - Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet Your list lists almost nothing actually interesting or noteworthy. Bioware succeeded then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 No we can thank the casuals that played WoW. No, really if you didn't have casuals, you wouldn't have a game to play. the problem is solvable with different modes (easy, hard, etc.) and different drops from those modes (not just more drops for hard mode). casuals are happy 1 or 2 tiers behind elite players as long as the stuff they have is purple and if they ever decide to run hard... or nightmare modes, the stuff they have doesn't render them utterly useless. this worked great in wow (early BC). i never understood why they moved away from that model. people were happy. now with new games *cough* this one, you can clear "hard mode" content as though you are running Naxx in tier 10. we don't have casuals to blame. anti-social programmers and developers with 200 iq's who have zero common sense are who we have to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekkau Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've been playing games since 1981... And I have every game console and computer created, pretty much. I collect retro computers. I have a nest of machines in this room from the humble Amiga through to Elite, PS3, Dreamcast, Cube and a couple of powerful PCs rigged up to big screens. Gaming is a hobby of mine and I really take no prisoners when it comes to entertainment. I loved WoW and actually still play, along with Rift and the odd flurry into STO. I also have Guildwars. With 10 at cap in both Rift and WoW I kinda have done most of whats to offer really. Those games are good. I bought Final Fantasy XIII-2 this week but have yet to fire it up. I won't play unless its fun. And to this game... Level 17. The game is brilliant. Loving it. I don't generally get put off by what anyone says about the game. After all its my game. And the game is intoxicating I have to say. I have done little else this weekend. I can easily see me doing this for the next year. Classic. PS I thought Skyrim was crap... Played all of one hour before the box hit the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) if you didn't have casuals, you wouldn't have a game to play. MMO's existed before said demographic discovered this genre. Not surprisingly, many would attest the quality of game was higher without the rich, vivid and beautiful bells and whistles. Edited February 12, 2012 by IIII-IIII-IIII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillfort Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 WoW did it because all the casuals cried foul play and unfair treatment. If they would have just told then to just suck it up and play the part of the game designed for you then it would have been just fine. Dont blame a company (WoW) for doing something that another company (SWTOR) is doing the exact same thing. The best thing for SWTOR to do is tell all the "casuals" to either play the game the way we design it or go play WoW. Grow some balls and use them. You give in to them once and they will just step all over you while destroying your game but they dont care because they can just move onto another one. lol WoW was designed from the get go to be an easy access ungriding mmo. Before Cata came out there was an article in PC gamer a UK gaming mag with one the devs and i beveled he said they would have made it much more casual friendly and even said Arena was a mistake. If you were playing WoW hard core you were maybe do in it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 MMO's existed before said demographic discovered this genre. Not surprisingly, the quality of game was higher without the rich, vivid and beautiful bells and whistles. 300 million dollar mmo's definitely did NOT exist before casuals "discovered" this genre. welcome to present day. we have cookies, and bad mmo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts