Kardall Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 One thing everyone in this thread is failing to take account (unless I missed a post somewhere): People who leave, are leaving because they want to have their dailies done. This makes it hard for pugs when the other team is a roflstomp 50 4-man group or two you are going against. Downfall to fixing this with ranked matches... the queues would be so long right now, people would quit. Everything would be huttball. The republics are not that far along in gear on most servers, as compared to imperials. There are just more imperials across the board on during peak times. Hence all the Ilum win-trading going on (And all the complainers about that, but don't realize the foundational reasoning behind doing it in such a way). Right now, something must be done with the leavers, I agree... however, if it is too extreme, they'll just quit playing altogether. It's going to be a balancing act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osceana Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Most of you probably dont know what its like as a battlemaster, but there is no incentive to stay and fight it out if your team looks weak and there undergeared, theres no incentive to play beyond your three wins and there just isnt any incentive. The bags drop coins so unoften and the only thing that gives them too you is the dailies normal coms are pretty much useless and at the point i got to a long time ago even champion comss are near useless wehn your already fully geared. If you give me a debuff to leave a game i was probably already put in without my knowledge of losing and i probably get kicked out of cause of the lag to load into one of these games and the time to get out of the starting part your just going to make many more people angry thats the only thing i like right now about the pvp matches is that if something happens i can just leave. Edited February 13, 2012 by Osceana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why punish those who want to accomplish something instead of fixing the lack of any real matchmaking system? Make the matches a little more even and you'll see less players leaving them. I don't leave warzones I'm having fun in, whether my team is winning or losing. As long as they lose, players will say the matchmaking was not even and leave anyway. Also, you have to fix both, matchmaking AND leavers/AFKers. Maybe YOU won't, but the T3 equipped players will to get the rest of their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarfo Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 A 15 minute debuff preventing queueing for more warzone seems like the most reasonable suggestion so far. I agree completely, they should also get a debuff that states in their name that they're a turd-face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) You're internet died for 30 seconds, you've been DC'd from the server or Your game crashed in the warzone Cya in 30 minutes. Oh Bioware made it so that you can't leave, but if your game crashes or you D/C no penalty. Lets see, Hopeless game, check, no need to stay, check. Disconnect internet, next warzone. Oh they made so if the game crashes no penalty! Task Manager->Right Click swtor.exe->End Process. Counts as a crash and always will. next warzone. Nice try, but that will not work. If you log back in, you will be in the same BG you left. If you arent there when the BG ends, you will get a penalty. It doesnt matter if you D/C, pull out the cable or crash, you get a penalty anyway. If you are really unlucky and crash 30 seconds before the game ends, you are a collateral damage. Get over it. Edited February 13, 2012 by skyflash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kraxis- Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Cross Sever queues. Set daily to 3-5 full games, vs. 3 "wins" Add FULL stat and rank tracking (and match making) and make it AWESOME - this might be wishful thinking, but it would add a lot of incentive for people to play full games - maybe need to add just a little more incentive too. ... AND... Deserter debuff WITH Disconnect/Crash detection... either that, or we get 1-2 free ones per day. All of this should happen on the same patch. There you go Bioware, we just fixed Warzones for you... mostly. Edited February 13, 2012 by -Kraxis- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 As long as they lose, players will say the matchmaking was not even and leave anyway. Also, you have to fix both, matchmaking AND leavers/AFKers. Maybe YOU won't, but the T3 equipped players will to get the rest of their gear. Expecting MMO players not to complain is like expecting the sun not to rise. The difference comes in how far they are pushed. A worthwhile matchmaking system will do a lot more for people having a chance to do their dailies than punishing those who leave one that they know they are not going to win anyway. Forcing someone to stay in a match against the six hundred club isn't going to stop the six hundred club from getting their gear. Its just going to piss off that someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Its just going to piss off that someone. Yeah, thats fine though. Better him than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, thats fine though. Better him than everyone else. So everyone who is also stuck on the losing side of the match with him/her because they are up against the six hundred club, due to the lack of a worthwhile matchmaking system, isn't just as pissed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nangasaur Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) So everyone who is also stuck on the losing side of the match with him/her because they are up against the six hundred club, due to the lack of a worthwhile matchmaking system, isn't just as pissed?No, because we play for the fun of it. We don't care about losing, that's why we don't quit. Only quitters are so self-centered that they don't get this concept, so I understand your lack of understanding it. It's really fun to win, but it doesn't suck so bad that our lives are ruined if we lose. Quitters just make losing that much more less fun. Edited February 13, 2012 by Nangasaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Adding the stick without a carrot isn't going to do any good. There should be a worthwhile matchmaking system that counts level and expertise. Maybe even make an exception for people who like lots of expertise on their pve gear? Of course cross-server warzones would be a huge plus too, helping to lower queue times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So everyone who is also stuck on the losing side of the match with him/her because they are up against the six hundred club, due to the lack of a worthwhile matchmaking system, isn't just as pissed? Your logic is deeply flawed. 1. What is the alternative? You let the guy leave.. then another player takes his spot, sees the enemy and leaves as well... then another 5 and you just ruined 6 players game. 2. Who is supposed to be fighting the six hundred club? Those guys want to PvP... do you think they want to see everyone leaving in every game they play? They dont care if they win every game by the enemy leaving, because a win is useless to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No, because we play for the fun of it. We don't care about losing, that's why we don't quit. Only quitters are so self-centered that they don't get this concept, so I understand your lack of understanding it. It's really fun to win, but it doesn't suck so bad that our lives are ruined if we lose. Quitters just make losing that much more less fun. I play for the fun of it too. You find it fun to be spawn camped for ten to fifteen minutes or rofl stomped by the six hundred club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadtoArkham Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What is it about MMO forums that brings out the condescending individuals who act like they have irrefutable proof that they are right and this game is fine/broken. And, of course, all of the individuals "who program for a living, so here is what needs to be done". Either side of any argument on these forums is just filled with know-it-all jerks. At least trolls are fun to watch lol My 2 cents, quite simply, is that the Leaving issue irritates me because then I get dragged into a warzone with 20 seconds left till we inevitably lose. The issue with leavers, for me, isn't that they're hurting the team or sore losers or whatever, it's that someone is usually forced to unknowingly take that loss for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirRobin Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Your logic is deeply flawed. 1. What is the alternative? You let the guy leave.. then another player takes his spot, sees the enemy and leaves as well... then another 5 and you just ruined 6 players game. 2. Who is supposed to be fighting the six hundred club? Those guys want to PvP... do you think they want to see everyone leaving in every game they play? They dont care if they win every game by the enemy leaving, because a win is useless to them. You've already been told the alternative, repeatedly. Have a worthwhile matchmaking system so there is less chance of someone wanting to leave. Some of the best matches I had my side lost but it was a fun and challenging match. Not getting spawn camped or rofl-stomped. I've even avoided fighting in matches we were winning too lopsidedly. Crush the other side too badly and all you do is make them not want to queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nangasaur Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I play for the fun of it too. You find it fun to be spawn camped for ten to fifteen minutes or rofl stomped by the six hundred club?I can honestly say that this has never, ever, ever happened to me. I guess your server is just either heavily bad on your side, or heavily ZOMGPRO on the opposing side. Either way, if you want to try and convince me that what you are describing happens more often than not, put up a live feed and I'll watch it. Until then, you're over indulging a worst-case scenario as being the most common occurrence. I doubt it happens to you more than once a night. If it does, you're probably best served by waiting 10 minutes to queue again, so you don't keep getting in matches with the exact same teammates and opponents. Mix it up. Edited February 13, 2012 by Nangasaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlfsith Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I hear you, but this is an MMO, all MMOs are hugely time consuming to progress, that's just the genre. Letting people quit WZs one after another is making the game worse. I fully comprehend that MMOs are time-sinks. What I am saying is the time played vs reward isn't there. I played well over 20 Warzone matches with a single win, multiple (at least 10) ending before the three minute mark, and a plethora more with numerically lopsided teams, never mind the gear discrepancies. Why there isn't a starter PvP set you can buy with normal warzone commendations or a crafted PvP set for newly hit 50s is beyond my realm of understanding. Alienates a large section of the player-base who are now just achieving 50 and wanting to explore PvP instead of PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Have a worthwhile matchmaking system so there is less chance of someone wanting to leave. What if I tell you that the current matchmaking DOES work perfectly? Let me guess, you won't believe me because you are losing games, sometimes terrible. Your logic is flawed again. People leave anyway, because if they lose it must be the matchmaking, and only if they constantly win, then the matchmaking is working great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nangasaur Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Here's a question I want to pose for the folks who think quitting/leaving early to avoid playing out a losing match, is NOT selfish: If you were in a full group (all 8 people) of guildmates in a warzone together, and the opposing team scores first, would you quit on your team, just like you do in a PUG warzone? Don't say, "No, but my guild can turn it around because we are that good." Everyone wants to believe that their guild is better than everyone else, and people they don't know are just bad. News for you, there's always someone better than you. A premade-only queue will prove this to you, as it has in past PVP games that did premade queues. Guilds ended up solo-queue synching to get in the same warzone, and roflstomp the same PUGs as they did before. WoW semi-fixed this by scrambling the order people are slotted in the queue. But it all boils to this: would you quit on people you know, or quit only on people who don't know you and believe you are anonymous to them? There's your purest definition of selfish griefing. Because you don't know the people you are hurting, it's okay to hurt them. Edited February 13, 2012 by Nangasaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Kraxis- Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) What if I tell you that the current matchmaking DOES work perfectly? ... Wait, what? The only match making system that even exists is an overly-broad 10-49 vs 50's... Am I high, or are you? lol Edited February 13, 2012 by -Kraxis- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrandis Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What if I tell you that the current matchmaking DOES work perfectly? Let me guess, you won't believe me because you are losing games, sometimes terrible. Your logic is flawed again. People leave anyway, because if they lose it must be the matchmaking, and only if they constantly win, then the matchmaking is working great. Yup 11 people on my team, 8 on yours. Perfect stuff. If you think that isn't an exploit, you are very sadly mistaken. Not only does it not work properly, its random. That means no balanced matches. The few that are balanced are immensely rare. Now when Bioware implements the rated warzones, after the dust settles and everyone gets their rating, we'll get those matches. But until then, if you are only doing your daily, and don't need regular comms, getting farmed by the enemy team is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollermittens Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 PROTIP (a sad one however): it is faster to simply leave warzones in which your team is losing and re-join another one to complete your daily. Most people you see who are leaving all the time are most likely trying to completely their daily by joining a winning game that is already in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyflash Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yup 11 people on my team, 8 on yours. Perfect stuff. If you think that isn't an exploit, you are very sadly mistaken. Not only does it not work properly, its random. Well that IS an exploit.. lol. It has nothing to do with matchmaking. And matchmaking is NOT random. Bioware will match premades against premades. You can easily see that when you queue as a premade, your time until the BG opens will be about 400% of the time you have in solo queue. Anyway, that was not my argument. People will quit games anyway, even with perfect matchmaking. People really want to roflstomp the enemy team, they dont want an even group, they want a better group than the enemy. Fixing matchmaking will NOT fix leavers, it will only decrease it by a small amount, and those arent the people I am worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Why there isn't a starter PvP set you can buy with normal warzone commendations or a crafted PvP set for newly hit 50s is beyond my realm of understanding. Alienates a large section of the player-base who are now just achieving 50 and wanting to explore PvP instead of PvE. What I understand even LESS is that there WAS a blue pvp entry level gear in the game at release. AFAIK it was buyable with simply warzone commendations just like the level 20/40 gear. It also had expertise on it. Then it was removed in the first patch after launch, 1 week or so. They never told us why... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This situation is getting way out of control. Today, I'm getting into warzones with only 5 people left in them which then fill up and gradually empty again. More and more people are just leaving a warzone at the first sight of a loss. I don't usually leave. Today after getting into that 5 man warzone and watching repeat people joining afterwards and leaving I finally thought wth should I be the one to stay in this if noone can be arsed to take their turn when a loss comes, so I bailed. It's got to the point where the system is now just broken. We need a fix. I don't see any other way besides applying a penalty. A 15 minute debuff preventing queueing for more warzone seems like the most reasonable suggestion so far. Whatever happens, it can't stay as it is. once again... as long as i have no control over which wz i get stuck in, there should be no penalty when i leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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