Fdzzaigl Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Yesterday we encountered an incredibly annoying problem while doing Taral V on hard mode. We basically went through the entire flashpoint without deaths, but wiped once on the final boss, because we did not make the enrage timer. So on our second try, we decided to try out a new tactic: instead of bothering with the turrets surrounding him at the start and the mobs that occasionally spawn on either side of him, we'd pull the boss out of LoS of the turrets behind an object in the back of the room and wait for the mobs to come to us, so we could AOE them down. This tactic worked perfectly, until our not too bright sentinel group member went after the mobs when they spawned anyway (despite warnings not to) and stood in line of sight of the turrets. The result was that he got killed, our healer got damaged but ran back and we decided to ignore the mobs but rush the boss down in hopes of beating the timer. We succeeded in killing him shortly after he enraged, but the boss still killed me (the tank) and the two remaining group members were low on health and got killed by the adds soon afterwards. Then the problem began: the hard mode quest completed the moment we killed the boss and none of us could get back in to loot him after spawning at the medcenter. The flashpoint courier droid outside the instance offered us the quest again, so it was as if we'd never been there and we missed out on the final boss' loot. I don't understand why you configured the quest in this way: in the normal mode of the instance, you have to talk to a certain doctor after beating the final boss to complete the flashpoint. Why can you not simply do the same in hard mode? Edited February 12, 2012 by Fdzzaigl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtrim Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've had this problem, as well. Kiting the boss to the start of the area is one solution, but it should not be the intended strategy. Please change the quest completion for the flashpoint to be after you talk with the guy up on the balcony, not when the boss himself dies. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I've had this problem, as well. Kiting the boss to the start of the area is one solution, but it should not be the intended strategy. Please change the quest completion for the flashpoint to be after you talk with the guy up on the balcony, not when the boss himself dies. Thanks. I don't see how it would not be an intended solution, you're simply using the objects in the room to your advantage. You can do the same with Assembler in D7. If they don't mean to make that possible, they should fix the boss' position or make him run back / evade. Anyway, yes, the quest completion is fakked up. I see several threads on this forum from many patches ago about this exact same problem. Edited February 12, 2012 by Fdzzaigl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikandar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Just did Taral V HM tonight. For the most part with out hiccups but did die to the droids after General Edikar. We could not get in. We should be able to enter to get our loot. Essentially a wasted night. The response in filing a ticket was a cookie cutter template that said this is working as intended. A couple of people that stayed in to keep the instance open did report that the loot disappeared after a few minutes. These things need to be changed to allow people that died to return to reenter the instance. Hard Mode quests should not auto-complete. We instead should be required to get a item of the final boss and turn it in to the HM quest giver outside the instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firesprite_ea Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Had exactly the same situation once and indeed, this is the "intended" way. Which is very illogical for this instance because the quest itself requires you to talk to an NPC and get teh computer. The FP should not end before that (and i think normal mode does not). Re the boss. We have actually used the pull out tactics for an epic easy kill. No need to pull to the starting location, just use the room before the final encounter (the one with the big chest and two gold sith mobs on the second floor. If you fight him there, droids have to run for quite a while to get to you and they will be clustered in the corridor and easy to pwn them with AoE. It was a bit funny actually. at 25% he summons the first wave - we dps him hard while he reloads and does nothing . At 50% first wave arrives and he goes into anohter reload session and we kill first wave. then at 25% the second wave arrives but while he goes into another reload we actually kill him ... so no third wave. And ofc no enrage etc - pretty easy kill. P.S. Actually if even ONE of you die together with the boss and hits respawn button ... that person will be prohibited from entering the FP at all. Happened once with us when it seemed like we were going to wipe but managed to kill the boss within last second. Two ppl died and respawned but ..were locked out. So beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikandar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Just to update from the tickets we filed. Last I checked the bestowal dialogue there is no stipulation of survival for successful completion. In fact by the mere fact that it completed 'successfully' then proceeded to update the tracker for the weekly HM, I feel that this is not in fact as intended. Now if this was to be setup in a manner such as Survival of the Barrow Downs Skirmish in LoTRO, then I would be more accepting of the outcome. For the record I will keep reopening this ticket until there it is resolved. I will run it again for the gear but the FP needs to let people back in to talk to the doctor for 'completion'. For the record we fought the boss where he stood, used CC on a couple of droids, and held our ground. EDIT: Looks like the Empire side equivalent in Boarding Party has the same issue (judging from the recent patch notes) Greetings Cincinatus, I am Protocol Droid N0-M1 of Human-Cyborg Relations... I have received your transmission regarding the bug in Flashpoint Taral V. We apologize that you're unable to loot the item in Taral v. Regarding the flashpoint this is working as intended, in order for you to loot the item you need to survive in the flashpoint. Otherwise, if you were killed within the instance you will need to wait for the boss to respawn for you to get the loot. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything further we can help you with. Galactic Support is our specialty... Sincerely, Protocol Droid N0-M1 aka Kenneth Star Wars: The Old Republic Customer Service Edited February 13, 2012 by sikandar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realID Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 This is most definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Our healer died on a HM False Emperor run and all the DPS and the tank still had a 5 minute or longer remaining cooldown on revive. No problem thought the healer, I'll release and come back in... Ya... Quest completed when the final boss died, he could not get back in. Sadly his chest token dropped and I ended up getting it for one of my companions since we couldn't get him back in. Hard Mode dungeons are on a daily lock, they don't need to be tied to the quest as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Wanted to say we had the exact same thing again (I run with guildies who just dinged 50 and are in quest greens, so this boss isn't a cakewalk for our group), luckily I warned everyone before and our healer was able to combat res someone before dying himself, so that person could revive the healer afterwards. The reply from the customer rep above is a ridiculous explanation, this boss is one of those who can easily kill you after being defeated due to adds. If you don't want that to happen, then fix your mechanics and make sure the boss respawns if the adds are still alive when the group is defeated. Also, the rest of the hardmode is completely faceroll, so I don't get why you throw in a hefty DPS race at the end (or why the other bosses are that easy, if you look at it from another perspective). Edited February 13, 2012 by Fdzzaigl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahbi Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Same thing happened to my group on Esseles. We killed the final boss, but 2 of the group got killed at the enrage timer. Not realizing it would be a problem, they released and tried to run back into the instance only to find themselves locked out and unable to get any loot Judging by the response you got from BW, we can pretty much expect nothing beyond a polite "up yours" type of response. - P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaniMauser Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Same happened on my first run of Taral V HM run. So next time we played safe and looted the boss the second he died, and and only after went for adds and turrets. But yes, adding the completion of the quest on the dialog instead of General's death would be a lot better than rolling loot under fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxbaby Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Never die on the final boss. One person should be alive otherwise you will be locked out of loot. If you see you'll wipe - don't kill boss. Wipe. Some people kill boss at one of the farthest rooms of the instance - behind the little room with the staircase. Some people kill him behind the corner in hall leading to his room. Some people disable two turrets, CC other two and aoe adds killing him where he stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duymon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 bring CC.... Kill the back two turrets 1st, then when the robots pop, cc one side and dps down the other side. On the second pull CC the side with only 2 robots, have your tank pop cooldowns, aoe, whatever to grab the side with 4, burn the boss and then burn the ads. Very doable with a competent group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) bring CC.... Kill the back two turrets 1st, then when the robots pop, cc one side and dps down the other side. On the second pull CC the side with only 2 robots, have your tank pop cooldowns, aoe, whatever to grab the side with 4, burn the boss and then burn the ads. Very doable with a competent group. This is not about how to do it. It's about dying on the last boss of a hardmode locking you out because of the quest completing. I know perfectly well how to do it (and pulling him back into earlier rooms is a far easier method), however, as I said, I'm running HM's with new 50's to get them geared, which means we can often not DPS him down fast enough to avoid being overwhelmed with adds. Other hardmode final bosses have exactly the same problem, it's just more apparent on this one. Edited February 13, 2012 by Fdzzaigl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nishka Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So first night we do False Emperor and two of our guildies get punted into the abyss right before we "killed" the boss. They did not get loot nor quest completion. The chest piece dropped for one of the ones out of the instance... That is just a horrible mechanic, you should be able to reenter the instance. Second night we do Taral V, same issue we didnt beat down the boss fast enough and get eaten by annoying enrage timer. Hate enrage timers. So second try we go in and take down the turrets and deal with first set of spawns. Fight the boss and then I (the healer) get killed when all the spawns pop up and aim for me, while he is doing his CAOE of death. The group works to kill him and they do, but the adds are still up and they just dont have any tricks up to keep going and they get torn down. Well we completed it legit, and we get locked out of the instance, no return, no loot. That is TOTAL BS. Again I state, That is just a horrible mechanic, you should be able to reenter the instance to get your loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auelaen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I get the reasoning for the lockout after the boss dies, but it is not the best way to do it. In theory, if there was no lockout, the boss could go down, group loots and wipes, encounter resets and they can farm him all day. It would be much more effective to set the whole encounter to unlock a chest when it is complete and either do not reward the quest (and close off the instance) until boss, adds and turrets are down or even better until the conversation is completed. We had a similar issue our first run of False emperor: DPS got knocked off the bridge, auto-zoned out, Malgus died and DPS was locked out for the loot and quest completion. However, I doubt this is something that will be changed, since it is basically something you learn to avoid after the first time you get burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikandar Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Instead of returning to the MedCenter (outside the instance), why not just return to the last checkpoint in the instance? That is usually the site of the last major boss kill. That seems like a reasonable solution. So for Taral V, it would be right inside the bunker after it has collapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auelaen Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Instead of returning to the MedCenter (outside the instance), why not just return to the last checkpoint in the instance? That is usually the site of the last major boss kill. That seems like a reasonable solution. So for Taral V, it would be right inside the bunker after it has collapsed. Reviving in zone would potentially allow for a person to run back into the fight after a death. The fights are designed to be either beat without any death or at most 1 with an in-combat revive. People could pull a boss near the revive point and effectively zerg the boss until they finish him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordhelmos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I just had a major issue with this as well and received the same response from a CS rep. RIFT, WoW, and MMOs released YEARS before this problem do not have issues with unfair mechanics locking people out of loot. For WoW and RIFT, you simply can't enter the dungeon while the group is in combat with a boss to prevent respawn zerging. Additionally, players in an instance had that instance ID saved ONLY to that party and only up to that boss. Once a boss was killed the instance ID was saved to that group, a new person couldn't come in and reap rewards and older party members can still come back and loot a dead boss even if they fell off a cliff, died in a fire, or whatever during a boss fight. TOR is supposed to be a next generation AAA MMO, why is it so backwards? Why can't they get simply things right that have already existed in other games that have preceeded TOR for years? Edited February 13, 2012 by lordhelmos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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