Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[darkcerb]

There are plenty of games with cross server lfg. How come you chose to be unhappy in a game that doesn't have one?

 

I'm happy in a game that I could be far happier.

 

I'm happy in a game that is doing it's very best atm to make flashpoints difficult to get into.

 

I'm happy in a game where being on a low pop server is quite literally buying a single player rpg.

 

I'm happy in a modern mmo that is bringing in a lfg tool, and that I believe will if not at first will eventually be cross server.

 

And you're evading questions, and victimizing yourself liberally with anecdotal and outright false claims.

[Heretiq]

Then stop shoving around "we're the majority and you're not so you're wrong"

 

Are you even reading?

[ispanolfw]

I'm not seeing the negatives here with the whole "we will be forced to use it" argument. Seriously, its a load of crap and you people are arguing against it just for the sake of arguing. Randoms are randoms, simple as that. Queues are no different then building a pug in the fleet. The only difference is we would not be forced to stay on the fleet spamming the chat. If you don't want to play randoms through a LFD queue then play with your damn friends or with your guild, simple as that.

 

Regardless of how many times you regurgitate your BS, the system IS optional. You can either use it or you don't. I have a guild and I have several friends to run FP's with. I have done most of the end game, yet I still am on the side that this game should of a LFD queue. The few minor negatives just DO NOT outweigh the usefulness of a LFD queue. I work odd hours leading to most of my raiding done during the weekends with my guildies. I'd like the option of still being able to do the content on say an alt and still be able to go out and level while waiting for a queue instead of sitting on the fleet in the middle of the night where there is only about 20 ppl there at 3am...

 

Minor negatives? To who, you? Is it minor to people who play to talk with others and socialize? No? Why? Look, I completely understand why people want it. I understand what problems it does solve. I personally don't care if it comes or doesn't. But I also understand what the cons of it are. I can understand the type of people this will hurt. I can look at things from multiple angles without letting MY opinion affect it.

[ispanolfw]

Are you even reading?

 

Quite sure I have been. I've seen you saying multiple times that your opinion is the majority so the minority should suck it up and deal with it. When you have no proof of said majority.

[darkcerb]

Then stop shoving around "we're the majority and you're not so you're wrong"

 

When the counter-arguments chief complaint is the majority will use it and in there minds challenge there own way of playing it's kind of hard for anyone on that side of the fence to claim otherwise.

 

But logic too seems lost on the other side.

[Amiracle]

Because we bought the game too and that makes it just as much "ours" as it is "yours"? It's an optional tool, don't use it.

 

I hear WoW has isolated servers, seems like that is screaming your name.

 

 

Ah, the I paid money so I am entitled to anything I want even if others dont want what I want.

 

We aren't imposing our wants on you, the game is already the way we like it.

 

You don't like it and want to add to it so you are imposing what you want over ours.

 

Why do you feel your 15 allows you to impose mechanics into the game that don't exist against the will of others in game?

[Amiracle]

Good thing it's optional.

 

And if you're playing a modern mmo because it doesn't have a lfg tool and only that (your words, not mine) then you're in for disappointment, a lfg tool is already coming the only thing that's on the table is whether it will at release be cross server or come later.

 

But by your own advice, there are plenty of other games out there that don't have a system and you are free to play them.

 

This game has a lfg tool.

 

its just not the one you like and want to impose the one you like on us.

 

Pretty simple.

[darkcerb]

Ah, the I paid money so I am entitled to anything I want even if others dont want what I want.

 

We aren't imposing our wants on you, the game is already the way we like it.

 

You don't like it and want to add to it so you are imposing what you want over ours.

 

Why do you feel your 15 allows you to impose mechanics into the game that don't exist against the will of others in game?

 

Good thing it's optional.

 

Why is that that one simple sentence is repeatedly enough to answer your posts?

 

And what makes your 15 enough to stop us?

[darkcerb]

This game has a lfg tool.

 

its just not the one you like and want to impose the one you like on us.

 

Pretty simple.

 

And the majority don't use it just like if the majority don't want a cross server tool they wont use it, thank you for agreeing with me?

[ispanolfw]

When the counter-arguments chief complaint is the majority will use it and in there minds challenge there own way of playing it's kind of hard for anyone on that side of the fence to claim otherwise.

 

But logic too seems lost on the other side.

 

And you still see black and white. You see people who use it as people who like or want to use it. Sure some will, but some don't. you have the people who love the tool and will always use it. You have the ones who despise the tool due to what it brings and what it can do who won't use it. Then you have people who don't like it, but will begrudgingly use it because it hampers their group finding efforts NOT to use it. And you know what, there's even more people in that gray area.

 

Using it does not equate like and acceptance of it for everyone who uses it. I used it in WoW because even though we had a good population on the two servers I played on, it was near impossible to find a group normally. Did I like using it? Not really, It was either use it or not get into groups.

[Uruare]

Prove it then.

 

Oh, it's not an absolute certainty monsieur ispanolfw. But I'd bet a shiny nickel on it.

 

I'd also bet that, at the end of the movie Titanic, the boat sinks.

 

I'd also bet that automobiles overtook the horse and buggie industry despite a great deal of howling and yowling on the parts of horse ranchers, buggie manufacturers and city officials across the US of A.

 

I'd also bet that it's...well, y'know, happened before. This whole chowderheaded 'debate'?

 

Yeah. It happened before on WoW's forums. Look what happened there. Look what didn't happen in WoW (answer: WoW didn't implode!).

 

Other games with LFG tools alike unto WoW's? Must be an increasingly popular idea. Rift included it, LotrO snapped the idea up pretty quickly, City of Heroes implemented such a thing with the Incarnate Trials system and have been refining it ever since, uh...

 

Yeah. My shiny nickel on "We're Getting The LFG Tool", garson?

 

I keep winning this argument. The doomsayers in WoW lost this bet, the sobby weepers in LotrO didn't win this bet, nobody that I know of even cares in City of Heroes to quibble over it as its implemented there, and...while that list could go on...

 

...we already have such a tool in SWTOR. Queue as a group or solo for PVP lately?

 

You've used the same tool that will, eventually, possibly sooner than later, wind up being applied to Flashpoints, maybe Hardmode FP's as well, possibly even Operations.

 

Your shiny nickel against mine, mate.

 

It's just a nickel.

[Heretiq]

Quite sure I have been. I've seen you saying multiple times that your opinion is the majority so the minority should suck it up and deal with it. When you have no proof of said majority.

 

Yeah - you're right. I said that multiple times. It was an unproven and baseless assumption without any facts whatsoever to back it up - like everything else in this thread.

 

The only thing that I know is that most people like convenient and time-saving tools (calculators, computers, cars, telephones ...). The Cross-Server LFG-Tool is a convenient and time-saving tool. Therefore I figured that most people will probably like such a tool and that most people would like it implemented into the game.

[darkcerb]

Using it does not equate like and acceptance of it for everyone who uses it. I used it in WoW because even though we had a good population on the two servers I played on, it was near impossible to find a group normally. Did I like using it? Not really, It was either use it or not get into groups.

 

And yet even though it would help them people don't use the current system.

[Amiracle]

I'm happy in a game that I could be far happier.

 

I'm happy in a game that is doing it's very best atm to make flashpoints difficult to get into.

 

 

No its not, your opinion. They have all been cleared.

 

 

I'm happy in a game where being on a low pop server is quite literally buying a single player rpg.

 

 

Your choice to play on a low pop server.

 

 

I'm happy in a modern mmo that is bringing in a lfg tool, and that I believe will if not at first will eventually be cross server.

 

Already has a lfg tool. How can they add what it already has?

 

 

And you're evading questions, and victimizing yourself liberally with anecdotal and outright false claims.

 

 

Sounds like you are the one playing the victim with many of the statements in this post.

 

Sadly you cannot see it.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Amiracle

[ispanolfw]

Oh, it's not an absolute certainty monsieur ispanolfw. But I'd bet a shiny nickel on it.

 

I'd also bet that, at the end of the movie Titanic, the boat sinks.

 

I'd also bet that automobiles overtook the horse and buggie industry despite a great deal of howling and yowling on the parts of horse ranchers, buggie manufacturers and city officials across the US of A.

 

I'd also bet that it's...well, y'know, happened before. This whole chowderheaded 'debate'?

 

Yeah. It happened before on WoW's forums. Look what happened there. Look what didn't happen in WoW (answer: WoW didn't implode!).

 

Other games with LFG tools alike unto WoW's? Must be an increasingly popular idea. Rift included it, LotrO snapped the idea up pretty quickly, City of Heroes implemented such a thing with the Incarnate Trials system and have been refining it ever since, uh...

 

Yeah. My shiny nickel on "We're Getting The LFG Tool", garson?

 

I keep winning this argument. The doomsayers in WoW lost this bet, the sobby weepers in LotrO didn't win this bet, nobody that I know of even cares in City of Heroes to quibble over it as its implemented there, and...while that list could go on...

 

...we already have such a tool in SWTOR. Queue as a group or solo for PVP lately?

 

You've used the same tool that will, eventually, possibly sooner than later, wind up being applied to Flashpoints, maybe Hardmode FP's as well, possibly even Operations.

 

Your shiny nickel against mine, mate.

 

It's just a nickel.

 

Then you obviously haven't read my posts. I'm not even here arguing against the tool. I'm arguing against people who don't look at things from all sides. Refusing to accept real cons because they disagree with them. Claiming majority without anything to back it up. And then claiming due to majority the minority can just shut up and go away and deal with it. This can apply to both sides of the LFG "debate" I just see more Pro behaving this way than the other side.

[Heretiq]

Sounds like you are the one playing the victim with many of the statements in this post.

 

Sadly you cannot see it.

 

If I was Darkcerb I wouldn't even dignify your bulls*it with an answer.

[darkcerb]

Sounds like you are the one playing the victim with many of the statements in this post.

 

Sadly you cannot see it.

 

Are you really suggesting it's peoples faults for being on a low pop server, is that really what your argument has come to?

 

Btw I'm on harbinger probably the highest pop server.

 

Already has a lfg tool. How can they add what it already has?

 

And the majority don't use it just like if the majority don't want a cross server tool they wont use it, thank you for agreeing with me?

Edited February 14, 2012 by darkcerb

[ispanolfw]

Yeah - you're right. I said that multiple times. It was an unproven and baseless assumption without any facts whatsoever to back it up - like everything else in this thread.

 

The only thing that I know is that most people like convenient and time-saving tools (calculators, computers, cars, telephones ...). The Cross-Server LFG-Tool is a convenient and time-saving tool. Therefore I figured that most people will probably like such a tool and that most people would like it implemented into the game.

 

I like time saving tools too! But not if they hinder my game experience. You're only looking at the one aspect of it. That's the problem. Not that you want it or think it will be a good thing, there's nothing wrong with that. It's more the saying just about anything against it is wrong that is the problem.

 

Again, i'm not for or against. But my opinions don't blind me to what will happen if it comes.

[Raansu]

Minor negatives? To who, you? Is it minor to people who play to talk with others and socialize? No? Why? Look, I completely understand why people want it. I understand what problems it does solve. I personally don't care if it comes or doesn't. But I also understand what the cons of it are. I can understand the type of people this will hurt. I can look at things from multiple angles without letting MY opinion affect it.

 

Who the hell talks when doing raids!? Seriously!? My guild uses mumble and even our conversations are kept to a minimum when raiding. If you wanna chit chat go do it on the damn fleet. If I see you BSing and typing away during a FP and are handicapping our progression, I will kick you out of the damn group.

 

There's nothing wrong with making a few jokes here and there during some of the downtime, but overall, I want you concentrating on the fights. And even then, PUGS ARE STILL PUGS. LFD or not, they are still RANDOM PEOPLE that you will not socialize with anyways. Pugs now are NO DIFFERENT then a LFD pug. You get your group, you run the content, you say thanks at the end and leave...

 

The cons are so minuscule that its not even worth mentioning, and most of it is just in your head. It doesn't affect anyone, it doesn't hurt the community, it changes nothing. Pugs are still pugs, the only difference is now your not sitting on the fleet spamming for 2 hours. End game will still be run by guilds, people will still make friends, nothing changes.

[ispanolfw]

And yet even though it would help them people don't use the current system.

 

Correct! They may not like to use it, they may not want to use it. That's the point. I'm not here saying it shouldn't be implemented. I'm here saying that if you want it implemented you damn well better be ACCEPTING that you're going to hurt a different part of the playerbase should it go live. And not going off that it won't hurt them.

[terminova]

Why even bother making these threads right now? Just wait until whatever tool they come up with makes it live, and then start posting threads about how much you hate it, how broken it is and how many problems it has. Edited February 14, 2012 by terminova

[darkcerb]

If I was Darkcerb I wouldn't even dignify your bulls*it with an answer.

 

These arguments aren't new to me at all, I was there long before and long after wow's implementation of the system.

 

It's nostalgic in a way, and that nostalgia reminds me that the industry moved past the irrational fear of some, I have faith it will again but that wont stop me from having my say.

[souloferdrick]

What does it tell you that you can't sell LFD on its benefits and instead have to go full inquisitor mode to route out heresy and force a consensus?

 

Im not worried about LFD ruining communities because any player base even semi dependent on LFD for grouping has no community with which to speak of anyway. Its all kind of moot anyway because beyond guilds, mass market MMO "communities" are largely nothing more than a collection of addicted, narcissistic aholes.

 

It should be fairly obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that LFD is a breeding ground for griefers and ninjas since they depend on being grouped with random people.

[Amiracle]

If I was Darkcerb I wouldn't even dignify your bulls*it with an answer.

 

How so. Read his posts.

 

Did he not say that Bio is stopping him from doing group content....yes

 

Did he not say that the LFG tool is stopping people on his server from doing events...yes

 

Did he not say that ha cannot get a group because of low server pop even though he can go to a high pop server...yes

 

Seems he is the one playing the victim.

 

 

Seems to me the only ones who can claim the title of victim are the ones who do not want cross server lfg because its you who are trying to impose your wants over theirs.

[ispanolfw]

Who the hell talks when doing raids!? Seriously!? My guild uses mumble and even our conversations are kept to a minimum when raiding. If you wanna chit chat go do it on the damn fleet. If I see you BSing and typing away during a FP and are handicapping our progression, I will kick you out of the damn group.

 

There's nothing wrong with making a few jokes here and there during some of the downtime, but overall, I want you concentrating on the fights. And even then, PUGS ARE STILL PUGS. LFD or not, they are still RANDOM PEOPLE that you will not socialize with anyways. Pugs now are NO DIFFERENT then a LFD pug. You get your group, you run the content, you say thanks at the end and leave...

 

The cons are so minuscule that its not even worth mentioning, and most of it is just in your head. It doesn't affect anyone, it doesn't hurt the community, it changes nothing. Pugs are still pugs, the only difference is now your not sitting on the fleet spamming for 2 hours. End game will still be run by guilds, people will still make friends, nothing changes.

 

Not you apparently, and that wasn't even the point. Some people like the journey of finding a group and then doing a dungeon/FP. You may not like that part, doesn't mean there aren't people who do.

 

Also if you're spamming for pugs, you're not going to have a ton of luck in the first place in all honesty. Considering spamming is seen as negative to some people.