Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[mothear]

LFD queue do not lead to content nerfs. Completely false. Wow started nerfing content before they even introduced x-server LFD. What logically would be the reason that LFG queues would lead to content nerfs. Keep in mind this is already the easiest, most casual, most accessible MMO on the market.

 

Not sure if serious ..... There were very few 'current' content nerfs in the heroic dungeons in WotLK pre LFD (Occulus, maybe HoL), but cataclysm was a different matter because people couldn't do the content successfully on a regular basis.

 

However to answer your second point, as I have already said LFD needs to be as hard as the poorest (worst geared/biggest newbie/least talented) person in your group, otherwise you will fail, unless the others are super geared and able to carry you. In WoW you have 5 people so 1 being carried is possibly OK, here there are 4, which is a big difference.

 

If the content is so easy 3 man it with a companion DPS, at least that will get you in the right mind for when LFD hits live.

Edited February 13, 2012 by mothear

[Heretiq]

No, he's going to get out into the world by standing in one place and teleporting instantly to a flashpoint and repeating. That's exactly what's going to happen. That's why there are so many people in org and sw, they're all just standing there waiting for queues to pop.

 

Or he'll go to whatever planet he is leveling on at the time, go crafting, chat or whatever, really.

 

What's it to you what he does while waiting for the invite to pop up anyway? At least with the LFG-tool he is given the choice as to whether to go out and get things done instead of standing around in the fleet and spamming in chat.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq

[ferroz]

No, he's going to get out into the world by standing in one place and teleporting instantly to a flashpoint and repeating.

No, he's going to go out and do stuff; like dailies. or leftover quests. Or world pvp. Or go do quests and kill stuff if he's under the level cap. He'll do it for 10-45 minute increments, while he waits on his queue to pop, depending on how long the queues are.

 

but he'll be able to do that AND do a flashpoint in the same night, instead of having to make a choice.

 

That's exactly what's going to happen.

 

That's why there are so many people in org and sw, they're all just standing there waiting for queues to pop.

No, they're standing there because they're at the level cap, and there's nothing else for them to do but dungeons.

 

They were sitting around in dalaran last expansion, long before the lfd tool.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[mothear]

... So what exactly was your point again?

 

If I wanted to play WoW (which I don't) I'd just play WoW. Simple as that. There are several aspects that SWTOR just does better (Leveling, Crafting, Companions, Story-telling ... etc) and therefore I prefer to play SWTOR.

 

I just think that a Cross-Server-LFG tool (among other features like dual specialization, a fully customizable UI, addons, macros and a barber shop ... etc) would make this already good game even better.

 

Well you said that you were the majority and that's where the money is. I'm saying no, the majority play WoW and if you make end game like WoW people won't stay with SWTOR they will go back to Rift of WoW.

 

Oh noes you want addons as well, yikes.

[Ituhata]

Or he'll go to whatever planet he is leveling on at the time, go crafting, chat or whatever, really.

 

What's it to you what he does while waiting anyway? At least with the LFG-tool he is given the choice as to whether go out and get things done instead of standing around in the fleet and spamming in chat.

 

If you want the game to be a giant pretty call of duty lobby go for it. You can claim people are going to go do other things, but one they figure out you get more xp chain running flashpoints and better gear than anything you can craft at that level they're just gonna do what they do in wow, stand in one spot and take up space, maybe visit a vendor when their bags fill up and then go back to their pre-designated spot.

 

Don't make me laugh with the chat comment. If he actually talked to people I doubt he would have this chronic problem of spamming lfg in general.

[ferroz]

If you want the game to be a giant pretty call of duty lobby go for it.

We already have that. We'd like to move away from that

 

Right now, the way to get flash points is to stand in fleet and spam for a group. If you go do other stuff, you might as well write off the night.

 

You can claim people are going to go do other things, but one they figure out you get more xp chain running flashpoints and better gear than anything you can craft at that level they're just gonna do what they do in wow, stand in one spot and take up space, maybe visit a vendor when their bags fill up and then go back to their pre-designated spot.

No, you'll still get better exp by questing in between flashpoints.

 

I got through most of the new northern barrens quest line on my hunter while chain running dungeons.

 

besides, I'm not convinced that you get better money and exp from flashpoints than from quests

 

Don't make me laugh with the chat comment. If he actually talked to people I doubt he would have this chronic problem of spamming lfg in general.

No, I like to chat, and I still have that problem. Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Heretiq]

If you want the game to be a giant pretty call of duty lobby go for it. You can claim people are going to go do other things, but once they figure out you get more xp chain running flashpoints and better gear than anything you can craft at that level they're just gonna do what they do in wow, stand in one spot and take up space, maybe visit a vendor when their bags fill up and then go back to their pre-designated spot.

 

And how other people spend their time in the game concerns you how?

 

I know for sure that I'll still level the old-fashioned way just because I like it. And that's how it should be. I should be able to do what I like. If someone wants to level only via flashpoints/warzones then more power to him.

 

Don't make me laugh with the chat comment. If he actually talked to people I doubt he would have this chronic problem of spamming lfg in general.

 

Or he can just let a fully-automated quality of life tool do that for him.

[harpuax]

The fact is there is a LFG tool. Not a great one but it is there. But NO ONE uses it. All you have to do is flag yourself LFG. Then those wishing to form a group search their who list by LFG and see all those wanting to run something.

 

So what is the issue with it?

 

A) people are just to dumb to use it.

 

B) people are so lazy they cant take a second to flag themselves

 

C) not that many people really want to pug.

 

D) not enough 50s yet.

 

E) server pops are too small.

 

Now I understand low pop servers. But I am on a fairly high pop server and there are 3! 50s using it right now 3! (142 in fleet atm).

 

Now I am not saying this tool is great but it is better than nothing. If people can't just que anything else is way too much work?

[ferroz]

The fact is there is a LFG tool. Not a great one but it is there. But NO ONE uses it. All you have to do is flag yourself LFG. Then those wishing to form a group search their who list by LFG and see all those wanting to run something.

 

So what is the issue with it?

 

A) people are just to dumb to use it.

 

B) people are so lazy they cant take a second to flag themselves

 

C) not that many people really want to pug.

 

D) not enough 50s yet.

 

E) server pops are too small.

 

Now I understand low pop servers. But I am on a fairly high pop server and there are 3! 50s using it right now 3! (142 in fleet atm).

 

Now I am not saying this tool is great but it is better than nothing. If people can't just que anything else is way too much work?

F. People know from experience that such tools are ultimately useless. That's why the better designed tools in eq (at least 8 years ago) and wow were basically unused

[harpuax]

F. People know from experience that such tools are ultimately useless. That's why the better designed tools in eq (at least 8 years ago) and wow were basically unused

 

Yes but WHY are they useless?

[Ituhata]

We already have that. We'd like to move away from that

 

Right now, the way to get flash points is to stand in fleet and spam for a group. If you go do other stuff, you might as well write off the night.

 

No, you'll still get better exp by questing in between flashpoints.

 

I got through most of the new northern barrens quest line on my hunter while chain running dungeons.

 

besides, I'm not convinced that you get better money and exp from flashpoints than from quests

 

No, I like to chat, and I still have that problem.

 

Just FYI, They have a giant shuttle that takes you right to fleet, literally a few feet away from the robot that gives you the flashpoint quest in each questing zone. You could do your quests and look for people who most likely will find that questgiver and will want to knock that out, rather than traveling to fleet where most people who are leveling are only there for a talent respec or to grab some supplies.

 

I pretty much leveled a priest to outlands without ever leaving the city, easiest thing I've ever done.

 

I don't know about money, but you definitely get better gear for your level out of flashpoints than through quests.

[xioix]

Surprised this didn't even came up in the Q&A thread! BioWare really must take pride in punishing people who can't form groups...

[ferroz]

Yes but WHY are they useless?

because they're useless. It's cyclic; a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

spamming is more effective. You're much more likely to grab someone's attention that way.

 

It's been that way for a long time, in basically every mmo I've played. If there's a non-matching lfg tool, it's useless, and spamming or sending direct chats are far more effective.

Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Heretiq]

The fact is there is a LFG tool. Not a great one but it is there. But NO ONE uses it. All you have to do is flag yourself LFG. Then those wishing to form a group search their who list by LFG and see all those wanting to run something.

 

So what is the issue with it?

 

A) people are just to dumb to use it.

 

B) people are so lazy they cant take a second to flag themselves

 

C) not that many people really want to pug.

 

D) not enough 50s yet.

 

E) server pops are too small.

 

Now I understand low pop servers. But I am on a fairly high pop server and there are 3! 50s using it right now 3! (142 in fleet atm).

 

Now I am not saying this tool is great but it is better than nothing. If people can't just que anything else is way too much work?

 

Yep. People are either dumb or lazy. And sometimes even unsocial. I love your baseless assumptions. C, D and E are valid and possible points though.

 

The tool that is in the game right now might as well not be there by the way. Using it doesn't bring you any advantage whatsoever so people just ignore it and do stuff the old-fashioned way by communicating.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq

[Heretiq]

Just FYI, They have a giant shuttle that takes you right to fleet, literally a few feet away from the robot that gives you the flashpoint quest in each questing zone. You could do your quests and look for people who most likely will find that questgiver and will want to knock that out, rather than traveling to fleet where most people who are leveling are only there for a talent respec or to grab some supplies.

 

I pretty much leveled a priest to outlands without ever leaving the city, easiest thing I've ever done.

 

I don't know about money, but you definitely get better gear for your level out of flashpoints than through quests.

 

I still don't understand what you're getting at to be honest. How does all that change anything? And how would your way of grouping be better than a Cross-Server-LFG system?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq

[harpuax]

Yep. People are either dumb or lazy. And sometimes even unsocial. I love your baseless assumptions. C, D and E are valid and possible points though.

 

The tool that is in the game right now might as well not be there by the way. Using it doesn't bring you any advantage whatsoever so people just ignore it and do stuff the old-fashioned way by communicating.

 

Ok so lets toss out A & B for now. A LFG QUE might help with E, but it does not solve C or D. Which makes the only real controllable issue server population. Is a LFG que that pisses off half the community and causes them to rage quit the answer?

 

The LFG tool in game has one advantage. I allows you to search people globally, while asking in any zone limits you to only those in that zone.

 

 

And I am just trying to have discussion about the best COMPROMISE to fix the issues. Not trying to flame either side.

[harpuax]

because they're useless. It's cyclic; a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

spamming is more effective. You're much more likely to grab someone's attention that way.

 

It's been that way for a long time, in basically every mmo I've played. If there's a non-matching lfg tool, it's useless, and spamming or sending direct chats are far more effective.

 

Ok I'll buy that answer. So how do make the current LFG tool grab people attention better?

 

Obviously it needs some sort of icon on the screen. That is a big failing of it right now.

 

Maybe if the game responded to when you type LFG, LFM, etc in chat? making the a fore mentioned icon, flash or blink. Just an idea. Open to others.

[Heretiq]

Ok so lets toss out A & B for now. A LFG QUE might help with E, but it does not solve C or D. Which makes the only real controllable issue server population. Is a LFG que that pisses off half the community and causes them to rage quit the answer?

 

The LFG tool in game has one advantage. I allows you to search people globally, while asking in any zone limits you to only those in that zone.

 

 

And I am just trying to have discussion about the best COMPROMISE to fix the issues. Not trying to flame either side.

 

And that's just it. I won't be satisfied with any of the compromises (server merges, global LFG-channel, Server-Only LFG-Tool) that have been brought to the table so far. Because said "compromises" won't solve all the issues for everyone and at all times of the day.

 

Even after the server merges and with a Server-Only LFG-Tool you'll still have problems finding groups if you have a weird work schedule or if you're leveling.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Heretiq

[Ituhata]

I still don't understand what you're getting at to be honest. How does all that change anything? And how would your way of grouping be better than a Cross-Server-LFG system?

 

My way of grouping forces you to socialize, something that is the main ingredient to a successful mmo. People who complain about this being a single player experience then in the next breath say we need an lfg tool make me laugh.

 

I guess you'd have to see what I've seen before and after they introduced lfg. If there is one singular reason I cannot stand WoW now, lfg would be it. A large part of why I enjoyed playing was the people I met and mingled with back when you pretty much had to. Once cross server lfg kicked in that feeling quickly died, it's funny how when you don't need people they slowly stop talking to one another. WoW truly became a single player game as far as I am concerned, running dungeons constantly with five nameless people you'll never run across again is no different than npc ai. Think SW is a barren wasteland now? Wait till that kicks in.

[Touchbass]

because they're useless. It's cyclic; a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

spamming is more effective. You're much more likely to grab someone's attention that way.

 

It's been that way for a long time, in basically every mmo I've played. If there's a non-matching lfg tool, it's useless, and spamming or sending direct chats are far more effective.

 

Hey Ferroz, haven't seen around since they locked every thread and moved the main thread to the suggestion area. /wave

[harpuax]

And that's just it. I won't be satisfied with any of the compromises (server merges, global LFG-channel, Server-Only LFG-Tool) that have been brought to the table so far. Because said "compromises" won't solve all the issues for everyone at all times of the day.

 

Even after the server merges and with a Server-Only LFG-Tool you'll still have problems finding groups if you have a weird work schedule or if you're leveling.

 

So we need new ideas. I agree that are just certain situations where you are not going to find a group no matter what they do. But you saying it's impossible to fix?

Edited February 13, 2012 by harpuax

[darkcerb]

My way of grouping forces you to socialize, something that is the main ingredient to a successful mmo. People who complain about this being a single player experience then in the next breath say we need an lfg tool make me laugh.

 

I guess you'd have to see what I've seen before and after they introduced lfg. If there is one singular reason I cannot stand WoW now, lfg would be it. A large part of why I enjoyed playing was the people I met and mingled with back when you pretty much had to. Once cross server lfg kicked in that feeling quickly died, it's funny how when you don't need people they slowly stop talking to one another. WoW truly became a single player game as far as I am concerned, running dungeons constantly with five nameless people you'll never run across again is no different than npc ai. Think SW is a barren wasteland now? Wait till that kicks in.

 

spamming general chat and pestering people not on the fleet is your idea of socializing?

 

And I have bad news for you if you think that atm any kind of real socializing occurs.

 

Boss strats, loot, bad behavior are the conversation topics and have been before any sort of lfg system.

 

My experience with mmo's from wow's first year, EQ a week from rifts release has not indicated any sort of server community as the counter-argument would have me believe exists and thrives before a lfg system.

 

Besides anything the vast majority of people just arn't that social, people wont strike up conversations at a bus stop.

 

I liked one anti-lfg persons response to that: "No I strike up conversations at a pub" where you or who your talking to has already had there inhibitions watered down and where more social people are far more likely to gather.

Edited February 14, 2012 by darkcerb

[darkcerb]

So we need new ideas. I agree that are just certain situations where you are not going to find a group no matter what they do. But you saying it's impossible to fix?

 

Not at all...cross server lfg is the fix.

 

As another has said this isn't a new issue for mmo's it's just far more glaring with the much larger audience mmo's now enjoy.

[Heretiq]

My way of grouping forces you to socialize, something that is the main ingredient to a successful mmo. People who complain about this being a single player experience then in the next breath say we need an lfg tool make me laugh.

 

Please don't put any words in my mouth. I personally never complained about this game being a single player experience.

 

You say that the main ingredient of a succesful MMO is giving people (or forcing them) to socialize. That's your opinion - nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make it a universally accepted and ultimately true fact though.

 

In my opinion the main ingredient of a (financially, which is the only thing EA cares about) succesful MMO is accessibility, convenience and ease of use.

 

I guess you'd have to see what I've seen before and after they introduced lfg. If there is one singular reason I cannot stand WoW now, lfg would be it. A large part of why I enjoyed playing was the people I met and mingled with back when you pretty much had to. Once cross server lfg kicked in that feeling quickly died, it's funny how when you don't need people they slowly stop talking to one another. WoW truly became a single player game as far as I am concerned, running dungeons constantly with five nameless people you'll never run across again is no different than npc ai. Think SW is a barren wasteland now? Wait till that kicks in.

 

I already said this somewhere in this thread. So I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself.

 

I did all that - I used the LFG-channel, the /who-list, I sent whispers to people. I did all that back in the day when I played Classic and TBC WoW. And, to be honest, it was nothing but a pain in the a*s, eventhough I had a raiding guild and a full friends list. I don't ever want to have to do that again in order to find a group. I'm sick and tired of it. It's an outdated way of doing things.

 

It was not fun, it did not give me the feeling of being a part of a community or a sense of accomplishment. The only thing it did is waste my time.

 

I won't walk to work for 3 hours instead of driving for 45 minutes. Like I said. Go ahead and live in the stone age if you want - I don't care. I will just use my convenient quality of life tool in order to save time.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Heretiq

[evildestroyer]

Bioware needs to use Rift Cross server LFG tool.

 

Its perfect. Enough said.