Athelen Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Title says it all. Juggernaut DPS specs both while leveling and in PVP situations, is complete crap. I've leveled one of every other class to at least 35 and have never encountered as many issues as i do on my Juggernaut. If the class isn't buffed or given some sort of survivability increase, such as a self heal, etc... then i wont bother renewing my sub next month. And i'm sure i'm not the only one feeling this way. Every time i bring it up in general chat on any planet, i get nearly a dozen other juggernauts agreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 And then there's also another dozen juggernauts not on your planet because they outleveled you and utilized tools (companions -> send them in first; venge in soresu form; etc) to overcome slight disadvantages Yes, our leveling survivability isn't that great, but it's not awful either. I had very few issues leveling my jugg up and now he's crazy awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgjohn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 have you tried building up your armor/endurance rating? you cant pour all stat boosts into strength. you'll be able to kill anything, but you have to get close first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yes, our leveling survivability isn't that great, but it's not awful either. I had very few issues leveling my jugg up and now he's crazy awesome Probably one of the worst tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If it makes you feel any better DPS Guardians have a similar issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdamornin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm not sure what level you are, OP, but it sounds like you might be using the wrong companion. As DPS, your overall best companion, in all situations, is Quinn. If you like to be more tactical, then choose between Pierce, or Broonmark. Overall, Pierce is the better choice, because he is ranged, but Broonmark does just fine in most situations. Jaesa, if geared to the hilt, can tank for a decent amount of time, but not quite as well as the aforementioned tanks. I understand that Jaesa is a favorite for a lot of people, but as DPS, she simply isn't the best choice. Using the right companion(s), our survivability is just fine. It might be less than some other classes, but it's certainly not *crap.* On the other side, as Immortal, you can use whoever you want for 95% of the game. In that last 5%, it should be Quinn. Riôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BombaLuigi Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 im 48 rage spec now on the last part of the voss bonus stuff... there were 2 class quests with which i had issues with, both of them were on tatooine... the first is the infamous one with the two silver mobs, the jedi master and his little padawan friend... the second one was where i had to kill some green giant mantis-like elite... that monster gave me a really hard time... both of them with quinn of course, didnt really matter, it was hard... other than that, i didnt really have more or less problems as with my bh or my operative... the only difference i noticed is, that with my bh i was 50 way before i even started the voss bonus stuff, and i cant really tell what im missing, i did a decent amount of pvp, did a few heroics... theres really no difference, yet im "missing" levels :F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhbet Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I'm Vengence ever since level 20 and tbh I don't see much difference between that spec and when I was lvling my Pyro PT. I used Vette, then Jaesa when I got her, not a single mob killed with Quinn. No problems at all. I honestly don't see why people complain about Jugg leveling, it's fairly straightforward and quite easy. Edited February 12, 2012 by Makhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaesoron Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Just wait till 40+ its start becoming a problem then, and its a pain at 50 too. You can adapt but you do feel a little squishy at times, died a few times on ilum today just trying to do some quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptrain Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If you are leveling with a rage spec then yes it is hard. I leveled to 50 in Veng spec and didnt have any problems at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyondkilling Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 lol i leveled as veng and i was unstoppable there was nothing i couldn't kill and i didn't send my companion in first but i do think we need some stuns that arnt in the immortal tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quor Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm Vengence ever since level 20 and tbh I don't see much difference between that spec and when I was lvling my Pyro PT. I used Vette, then Jaesa when I got her, not a single mob killed with Quinn. No problems at all. I honestly don't see why people complain about Jugg leveling, it's fairly straightforward and quite easy. This. There were some rough spots, but I never used Quinn after Tat until I hit 50 and started doing Ilum. Vette or Jaesa were my main companions until then. Jaesa most of the time, with Vette when I felt having a ranged DPS was more important (i.e. final class story fights on Corellia etc.). Geared appropriately, companions can keep you up against a lot of damage (Quinn) or burn through enemies very quickly (Jaesa/Vette). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qber Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Important part is to have the right companion out at the right time. Majority of people playing SW has Jaesa as their main and favorite companion, but if you feel squishy, or she dies too fast, maybe its better to switch to Quin or Vette. I like the fact that both Q/V are using medium armor with cunning, that way I can have one set of moddable gear and switch between them whenever its needed. Cheap way, but it works fine. I am leveling as immortal, and so far I have a blast. Very easy to find a group for FP, I solo all 2man heroics and some of the 4mans, with Quin I can take down pack of 3golds without blowing a single cooldown. With Vette 2golds+silver, tho I need to use some of my cds or medpack, but thats why I have them. Havent had a problem while leveling, at Voss now and enjoying it pretty much. In a day or two going to try out rage spec and how it works in pve/pvp. Just need to get some str/crit/power/surge mods for my second set. Edited February 12, 2012 by Qber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgstewart Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Armor is very important for you and the companion make sure you get the presence enhancer from the cantina vendor it makes your companion way stronger. I am a synthweaver and I make sure I use purple armor as a tank I RE until I get blue Redoubt armor then RE that to Purple. Quin is my main companion solo and Vette/Jeas in groups with a healer. Yes it takes a little longer to kill but if you keep your light saber hilt up to date you can do good damage. Taking on and killing 2 lvl 40 champions at lvl 39 shows the power of equipment yes I had to use everything including a medpack once but I still survived, finished my Hoth class story at lvl 36 solo which is a lvl 41 quest. My point is the Jugg is very powerful with the right gear and correct play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongoBongoArt Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Wow... That's really weird. My Jugg is 47 Veng/Rage mix and I've had zero problems leveling. I use Vette for a companion and just stay in Soresu form and hack away. When things get dicey pop Saber Ward, Endure Pain, and a medkit. If you are having survivability issues I'd say look to your armor first. Orange gear with up-to-date armor mods makes life alot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastus Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I completely understand thst the TS is talking about. I'm Veng spec and I stay in Shien form, and use Jaesa. I never liked Quinn, and did not gear him at all, but I realized when I first hit 50 things would be tough without the heals. Now that I'm well geared nothing is a problem, but for those that first hit 50 and aren't tanks, quests are touch and go at times. Personally I think that being a short range class, our defence should absolutely be better than it is now. We aren't effective until we're in an opponent's face, and will take long-range damage until we're in range. I really don't think "Blaster bolt deflection" makes up for our general squishiness, especially when a missile hits you in the face. Once you're geared you'll be fine, but until then you'll be getting your *** stomped in pvp, and be stopping to heal often during quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonUnitLatina Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 This is why I'm glad I did a Carnage Marauder first; leveling everything else seems relatively easy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dkrewe Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If DPS Jugg survivability is crap, then how do they compare to the survivability of a non-tank Assassin (especially in PvP). They have to last longer than that at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I would love to hear some more details from those who have leveled veng and immortal, and the differences between their tactics for some valid comparison. I love my Jugg. Probably my favorite class. with Quinn I rarely have issues. but to say it's a breeze comparable to my PT? or my shadow consular? those who do aren't paying enough attention to the details. I certainly do OK, but I have to work much more with my Jugg to get the same results I get from my other classes. It's not undoable...but its more challenging. My gear is usually blue/purple for my level, same with my companion. I tend to go with more DPS stats then tanking stats for my Veng build (same with my companion...heal/dps stats over endurance/defensive stats). I tend to cycle in my one defensive CD (level 33 atm) on multiple silver groups and elites... I usually open with charge (smash in groups situations) pop Retaliation when it's up as much as possible, cycle in auto attack for extra energy when needed, and make sure that Impale and Force scream are on CD...that's a typical rotation. rarely use ravage unless I simply have the open time and nothing else is available. Vicious slash is my dump skill. When I switch over from Quinn to one of my DPS toons, without any change in tactics, I have an immediate and noticeable drop in kill time overall. Even though mobs go down faster, I'm using more time recovering, and dying more often to random situations due to lack of flexibility. So for those who feel they "had no issues" with DPS companions, what do you do that's different? is there some skill that is a life saver that I'm not using? I'm not listing every thing I use, so don't be surprised if i say that I've already used something or the other. Also keep in mind that this is specifically Vengance...not talking about immortal. My concern is that people who say they aren't having issues are really just looking at it from their perspective. Like I said earlier, I'm doing fine on my Jugg...but compared to the other classes I'm playing (BH PT, SC, Commando, Sage, Sorc)... they are so easy mode I fall asleep sometimes playing them. My Pt breezes through content that I have to take a second look and plan out with my Jugg. now don't get me wrong...I enjoy the Jugg/knight for specifically this reason...but I can't see how people can compare the jugg to other classes and say they're the same. They're not...unless you simply don't know how to play those other classes well, and the jugg is simply that good of a fit for you. which wouldn't be surprising. i don't' think my Jugg sucks, nor that it's survivability isn't doable. But compared to other classes it certainly isn't a walk in the park...I'd love to use Vette (her personality makes me chuckle) but I tend to get irritated when I have to break in-between fights just to recuperate when i would be steamrolling them with Quinn. Or when i have to wait for that rez timer, when I know that with quinn i would still be up and topping of my health for the next fight. NONE of my other classes has this much dependence on a specific companion setup.this is not a game breaker IMO, but its hardly something to pretend that it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongoBongoArt Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 So for those who feel they "had no issues" with DPS companions, what do you do that's different? is there some skill that is a life saver that I'm not using? Well for me it's go into Soresu form, throw a Guard on Vette, target the softest opponent first - Saber Toss - Force Charge - Smash - dead/next target, then use Sunder to keep up Rage. If I'm taking too much damage, pop Saber Ward, Endure Pain, and a reuseable medkit (Biochem is handy). For silvers and gold I tend to Force Choke - Push - Charge - Smash. Stops their dps for a few seconds, inflicts some good hits, and Vette is blasting away at them the entire time. Then spend 3 seconds recuperating afterwards, not a problem. That being said, it's nowhere near as easy or efficient as my Gunslinger. Ranged classes seem to be vastly superior in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foenixz Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Title says it all. Juggernaut DPS specs both while leveling and in PVP situations, is complete crap. I've leveled one of every other class to at least 35 and have never encountered as many issues as i do on my Juggernaut. If the class isn't buffed or given some sort of survivability increase, such as a self heal, etc... then i wont bother renewing my sub next month. And i'm sure i'm not the only one feeling this way. Every time i bring it up in general chat on any planet, i get nearly a dozen other juggernauts agreeing with me. I gotta tell you vengeance at 50 has immense survibility; and if you spec in to 10% health on unleash. I am not sure what you are doing but you need to spend some more time with it. Edited February 12, 2012 by Foenixz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehdamage Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I think people jump into juggernaut ac thinking something totally different then what they're actually going to get. Mmo veterans would know that a "warrior" class is going to be gear dependant, and times could get rough for a class that is supposed to take the hit (not saying that as in YOU'RE A TANK SO TANK GGGRRRAAAAHHHH!!! Those statements are ignorant and annoying. Raided as a fury warrior in WoW BC and beat out almost everything on dps meters) just mean that that you're going to be in the thick of it and will take a hit. Just have to play the class, learn it's strengths all that bs, and it won't really be difficult if you know what you're doing. I haven't really had any issues and if the class really was so unplayable, weak and down right terrible, there wouldn't be any 50 Juggernauts running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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