Yoda vs Vader

[BrandonSM]

So, on another thread most agreed Vader beats Revan. A real long time ago, we had a thread where it was Revan vs Yoda and a whole bunch of people voted Revan. So I'm thinking, Yoda vs Vader.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Shaddaq]

Hello,

 

I saw Yoda fight. I saw Vader fight.

 

Is this really even a debate? Vader is cool and all, but jumping jack Jedi wushu hadn't made it to Western Cinemas at the point that Vader's fighting prowess was established.

 

It's not really fair, considering the decades between films, but there it is all the same.

[ErebusRex]

Despite how much I'd like to say Yoda, Vader is the prophesied one. That tells me that the force itself protects him until he fulfills his destiny.

[BrandonSM]

Hello,

 

I saw Yoda fight. I saw Vader fight.

 

Is this really even a debate? Vader is cool and all, but jumping jack Jedi wushu hadn't made it to Western Cinemas at the point that Vader's fighting prowess was established.

 

It's not really fair, considering the decades between films, but there it is all the same.

 

Well, I'm looking at it from an EU perspective. And honestly its a close fight IMHO.

 

Vader mastered Makashi, Djem So and combined them into his own unofficial form. Becoming one of the best duelists we know. He was immensely powerful in the Force. He was the most powerful Telekinsis user. Telekinisis as in the without moving a muscle, throw stuff at your oppoennts.

 

He was able to do it on Kessel. He had lost an arm and was severely wounded and yet while on the ground began throwing objects at the Jedi with his mind.

Edited February 11, 2012 by BrandonSM

[slashsnake]

Yoda, Vader was a shell of himself physically after his fight with Obi Wan, and those injuries really reduced his force powers as well. He wasn't the "golden child" anymore. He didn't have the knowledge of the force that Yoda gained in his 900+ years as well. As a cyborg, he was barely able to maintain a fight with Luke, who's training was quite short-lived to be honest.

 

Even a Vader with the physical abilities and force power of Anakin with his full knowledge he gained of the dark side I think would not come out well. Remember when it came to the lightsaber Obi Wan vs. Vader clearly ended in favor of Obi, and that was Vader at his best with one.

 

So if Yoda > Obi Wan

and Obi Wan > Vader

then Yoda > Vader in my opinion and I doubt it would be even close. Yoda vs. Young Vader before his injuries or vs. older weakened Vader post-injury.

 

Unless we put them both in starfighters and sent them after each other that is.

Edited February 11, 2012 by slashsnake

[BrandonSM]

Yoda, Vader was a shell of himself physically after his fight with Obi Wan, and those injuries really reduced his force powers as well. He wasn't the "golden child" anymore. He didn't have the knowledge of the force that Yoda gained in his 900+ years as well. As a cyborg, he was barely able to maintain a fight with Luke, who's training was quite short-lived to be honest.

 

Even a Vader with the physical abilities and force power of Anakin with his full knowledge he gained of the dark side I think would not come out well. Remember when it came to the lightsaber Obi Wan vs. Vader clearly ended in favor of Obi, and that was Vader at his best with one.

 

So if Yoda > Obi Wan

and Obi Wan > Vader

then Yoda > Vader in my opinion and I doubt it would be even close. Yoda vs. Young Vader before his injuries or vs. older weakened Vader post-injury.

 

Unless we put them both in starfighters and sent them after each other that is.

 

Vader vs Luke are doo doo battles. Vader didn't want to kill Luke, and Luke has stated that if Vader wanted to he could have killed him.

 

And Vader was prime post-mustafar. And Vader was a better duelist, force user and, he was smarter post-mustafar. Thats canon.

 

 

Look at all the Jedi, Vader killed post-mustafar. And then tell me he wasn't in his prime.

Edited February 11, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Liquidacid]

 

Unless we put them both in starfighters and sent them after each other that is.

 

that's not fair... in a starfighter Yoda can't reach the pedals or see over the dashboard

[slashsnake]

You are right that he didn't want to kill Luke, but he did want to show his power to Luke. And letting Luke score hits, and not being able to take down a geriatric Obi Wan in 2 seconds definitely didn't do that. He could have killed him, but he showed nothing that he could have done it with ease, which when you see Luke's fighting skill at the time, would he have lasted 2 seconds before being disarmed by Yoda? Making those battles so one sided Luke would have to know he was doomed would have done so much more for his cause.

 

Vader wasn't in his prime, actually his prime ended with his defeat to Obi Wan. But when was Yoda in his prime? At the time of Anakin's birth, Yoda was in the twilight of his life. The movies only show the last 3% of his life, and he was able to use the force and fight with a sword better than nearly any other person in the galaxy. I wouldn't be too impressed with someone seeing a person who lived to 85 only after their 82nd birthday, but if they were the #2 ranked lb for lb boxer, well that is insane. Remember he had been a Jedi Master for over 800 years. Even barely able to move he was able to train a Jedi that took down Vader and Sidious.

Edited February 11, 2012 by slashsnake

[slashsnake]

that's not fair... in a starfighter Yoda can't reach the pedals or see over the dashboard

 

Ok, so go with Anakin as a kid in that naboo fighter vs. Yoda where neither can see what the heck is going on then. lol

[meshade]

You are right that he didn't want to kill Luke, but he did want to show his power to Luke. And letting Luke score hits, and not being able to take down a geriatric Obi Wan in 2 seconds definitely didn't do that. He could have killed him, but he showed nothing that he could have done it with ease, which when you see Luke's fighting skill at the time, would he have lasted 2 seconds before being disarmed by Yoda? Making those battles so one sided Luke would have to know he was doomed would have done so much more for his cause.

 

Vader wasn't in his prime, actually his prime ended with his defeat to Obi Wan. But when was Yoda in his prime? At the time of Anakin's birth, Yoda was in the twilight of his life. The movies only show the last 3% of his life, and he was able to use the force and fight with a sword better than nearly any other person in the galaxy. I wouldn't be too impressed with someone seeing a person who lived to 85 only after their 82nd birthday, but if they were the #2 ranked lb for lb boxer, well that is insane. Remember he had been a Jedi Master for over 800 years. Even barely able to move he was able to train a Jedi that took down Vader and Sidious.

 

Erm dunno what movie you watched but the fight from ESB was pretty one-sided, luke got overwhelmed in every step and after he scored one hit on that bridge, vader disarmed him a second later.

 

Vader choked an officer on a different starship with mere thoughts - and that was in the movie, you tellin me he would loose to yoda?

Edited February 12, 2012 by meshade

[Wolfninjajedi]

Erm dunno what movie you watched but the fight from ESB was pretty one-sided, luke got overwhelmed in every step and after he scored one hit on that bridge, vader disarmed him a second later.

 

Vader choked an officer on a different starship with mere thoughts - and that was in the movie, you tellin me he would loose to yoda?

 

Well the duel wasn't COMPLETELY one-sided, it wasn't at least until Luke and Vader moved out of the carbonite chamber then it started to get one sided. Before that Luke was holding his own and doing quite well, even Vader complimented a few times.

 

"You have learned much, young one."

 

"Impressive, most impressive."

 

"Obi-Wan has taught you well, you have controlled your fear."

 

After the carbon chamber though, ya it was getting there.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[meshade]

Well the duel wasn't COMPLETELY one-sided, it wasn't at least until Luke and Vader moved out of the carbonite chamber then it started to get one sided. Before that Luke was holding his own and doing quite well, even Vader complimented a few times.

 

"You have learned much, young one."

 

"Impressive, most impressive."

 

"Obi-Wan has taught you well, you have controlled your fear."

 

After the carbon chamber though, ya it was getting there.

 

Luke could hold lightsaber and not drop it after vader struck him - "You have learned much, young one."

 

Luke could do a force jump which only jedi can do and people that are practicing the force-

"Impressive, most impressive."

 

Luke didn't cower when he saw vader with his red lightsaber and run like most other peopel would do at this time nor did he backpedal or backaway -

"Obi-Wan has taught you well, you have controlled your fear."

 

Still doesn't make him a threat or a strong enemy to vader + he is his son of course he is gonna commend him on his accomplishments.

[_Zorth_]

Really don't know, Yoda got beaten by Sidious by a hair, most people say it was a tie. Since Vader had powerwise 80% of Sidious he wouldn't probably be able to defeat Yoda, But he would definatly prove to be a challenge.

 

Then again, Post-Mustafar Vader slew countless of Jedi Masters. But I don't think that anyone of them came even close to Yoda. I'm gonna have to give this fight to Yoda.

[BrandonSM]

Really don't know, Yoda got beaten by Sidious by a hair, most people say it was a tie. Since Vader had powerwise 80% of Sidious he wouldn't probably be able to defeat Yoda, But he would definatly prove to be a challenge.

 

Then again, Post-Mustafar Vader slew countless of Jedi Masters. But I don't think that anyone of them came even close to Yoda. I'm gonna have to give this fight to Yoda.

 

I disagree, I think Sid rofltstomped Yoda. As trollish as that sounds.

 

If you read the novel, Sidious was laughing and teasing Yoda the entire fight. Taunting him.

 

I'll get the novle out later, I just skimmed through a few hundred pages of different books for the Revan vs Vader thread D:

Edited February 12, 2012 by BrandonSM

[Wolfninjajedi]

Luke could hold lightsaber and not drop it after vader struck him - "You have learned much, young one."

 

Luke could do a force jump which only jedi can do and people that are practicing the force-

"Impressive, most impressive."

 

Luke didn't cower when he saw vader with his red lightsaber and run like most other peopel would do at this time nor did he backpedal or backaway -

"Obi-Wan has taught you well, you have controlled your fear."

 

Still doesn't make him a threat or a strong enemy to vader + he is his son of course he is gonna commend him on his accomplishments.

 

Still though need to remember, by that duel Luke had only a short time of training. So the fact that he didn't get floored into the ground seconds after the duel started showed that he could hold his own well. At least until out of the carbonite chamber.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[BrandonSM]

Still though need to remember, by that duel Luke had only a short time of training. So the fact that he didn't get floored into the ground seconds after the duel started showed that he could hold his own well. At least until out of the carbonite chamber.

 

Vader wasn't trying. In fact, he was trying to not hurt Luke. This was the first time he had ever seen Luke and, it was only shortly before did he learn of Luke's existence.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Vader wasn't trying. In fact, he was trying to not hurt Luke. This was the first time he had ever seen Luke and, it was only shortly before did he learn of Luke's existence.

 

Yes...but they still fought did they not? So Vader wasn't trying, however Luke was good enough to the point where he wasn't bested by Vader who wasn't trying at least until later in the duel.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[BrandonSM]

Yes...but they still fought did they not? So Vader wasn't trying, however Luke was good enough to the point where he wasn't bested by Vader who wasn't trying at least until later in the duel.

 

He wasn't trying at all. In fact, both times they dueled he wasn't trying.

 

Luke even stated later on, if Vader wanted to, he could have easily killed Luke.

[crazysam]

Yoda, Vader was a shell of himself physically after his fight with Obi Wan, and those injuries really reduced his force powers as well. He wasn't the "golden child" anymore. He didn't have the knowledge of the force that Yoda gained in his 900+ years as well. As a cyborg, he was barely able to maintain a fight with Luke, who's training was quite short-lived to be honest.

 

Even a Vader with the physical abilities and force power of Anakin with his full knowledge he gained of the dark side I think would not come out well. Remember when it came to the lightsaber Obi Wan vs. Vader clearly ended in favor of Obi, and that was Vader at his best with one.

 

So if Yoda > Obi Wan

and Obi Wan > Vader

then Yoda > Vader in my opinion and I doubt it would be even close. Yoda vs. Young Vader before his injuries or vs. older weakened Vader post-injury.

 

Unless we put them both in starfighters and sent them after each other that is.

 

Actually your wrong!

 

Vador was weaker at first but became even more powerfull than he was as anakin. Read Dark Lord: The Rise of Dark Vader and youll know!

[Wolfninjajedi]

He wasn't trying at all. In fact, both times they dueled he wasn't trying.

 

Luke even stated later on, if Vader wanted to, he could have easily killed Luke.

 

Ya ya blah blah I got that, I GOT THAT. My whole point however here is, Luke in ESB still fought against Vader with little training and was very brief no matter if Vader was trying or not, able to hold his own until later he got floored.

[BrandonSM]

Ya ya blah blah I got that, I GOT THAT. My whole point however here is, Luke in ESB still fought against Vader with little training and was very brief no matter if Vader was trying or not, able to hold his own until later he got floored.

 

I don't consider him holding his own against Vader matter that much if Vader wasn't even trying.

[NasherUK]

Well, if you compared jedi training to real martial arts. The most experienced will usually come out on top of someone who is just naturally good, up to a point. Someone less experienced will know how to defend (it's the first thing you learn), but will have a weak attack. Yoda had 100s of years of experience vs Vaders few years, Yoda would have kicked the crap out of him given the chance.

[DeutschGamer]

Post-Mustafar Vader vs. AotC/RotS Yoda in my opinion of course would yield a very close fight in all regards, it would also depend on the location they are fighting in.

 

Yoda had considerable mobility but with age his stamina was lowered, Vader had less mobility but was more or less considered a walking juggernaut of destruction. The battle would be decided in the first few minutes as Yoda would have his leaps and speed going while Vader would be put on the defensive because of his lack of movement. If he could outlast Yoda he would have him cornered, and my thoughts seem to lean toward Vader winning.

 

However, Yoda was a master of the force where his lightsaber skill ended. If he put all he had into the fight, again depending on the environment, I think he could win.

 

I'm not a serious lore freak, so perhaps my thinking is flawed. Oh well, just my opinion.

[BrandonSM]

Why do people bump?

[October]

Yoda. Yoda was Sidious' equal, and Vader couldn't even amount to Sidious' brute strength without help, due to his prostetics. Yoda on the other hand could.