Buff them all vs nerf the one

[lunabaguna]

I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this subject. I hear a lot of:

 

Don't nerf us, buff all them.

 

In regards to something like the op nerf, where crits could essentially one shot people, how would you like to see other classes buffed to fix the problem? Keep in mind, saying something like "buff everyones hp or armor" gives rise to a damage nerf to every other class. Please discuss, I'd like to hear cogent ideas on the mentality of nerf vs buff.

[Traumahawk]

I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this subject. I hear a lot of:

 

Don't nerf us, buff all them.

 

In regards to something like the op nerf, where crits could essentially one shot people, how would you like to see other classes buffed to fix the problem? Keep in mind, saying something like "buff everyones hp or armor" gives rise to a damage nerf to every other class. Please discuss, I'd like to hear cogent ideas on the mentality of nerf vs buff.

 

I would like to see PvP in its current form removed from the game (and some sort of separate system put in its place). This cycle will be endless as not even the so-called "gaming gods" at Blizzard can get the see-saw under control.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Traumahawk

[lunabaguna]

I would like to see PvP in its current form removed from the game (and some sort of separate system put in its place). This cycle will be endless as not even the so-called "gaming gods" at Blizzard can get the see-saw under control.

 

What would this system be? How would it compare with pvp? What kind of system would please you?

[Perhilion]

What would this system be? How would it compare with pvp? What kind of system would please you?

 

Hutt Ball is balanced since you are playing against your own faction.

[Elbrop]

"Buff them all" is never the answer. It's the gaming equivalent of saying print more money to fix the economy.

[Tahana]

What would this system be? How would it compare with pvp? What kind of system would please you?

 

Rift was onto it when they created a pvp specific soul. However IMO they need to have two separate trees (exactly the same as far as abilities, placements and cost) but perform differently. That way when corrections have to be made they are made to the platform that they are designed.

 

I've gotten a lot of 'hate' comments on this, because of the I'm on a pvp server why should I have to suffer and I'm out farming mats and fighting npc's etc. But in reality it would be the only system that would guarantee that you wouldn't get a PVE nerf for a PVP issue.

[Dee-Jay]

Nerfing is almost always the better choice from a game-design point of view.

 

Players already "buff" themselves constantly by acquiring new gear and improving their play. Nobody gets weaker as they progress.

 

This leads to a subtle but steady power-creep over time which also makes a lot of content easier without having to nerf it.

 

Adding extra buffs to this already constant power-creep can result is some game-breaking developments. Occasional nerfs don't have this effect and actually help to retain the power-creep ever so slightly.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[IIII-IIII-IIII]

I don't have the answer but I know there isn't a solution as trying to find one generally just causes more headache. As soon as you buff/nerf one...it's downhill from there.

 

PvP and it's effect on PvE is like spoiled milk in the fridge. It once was good but now it just stinks.

Edited February 11, 2012 by IIII-IIII-IIII

[Stublybeaver]

Personally I tihnk the PvP system right now is pretty boring. I've also found Blizzard's PvP set up pretty much the same boring grind. I am hopeful that they revise it and set it up more like DAoC, which is so the type of pvp I've enjoyed the most. One the subjects of nerfs. It seems that more times then not what ends up happening is if a game nerfs a class its usual into the dirt and making them not a viable class to play till they "fix" the class. If they would just buff everyone still wouldn't fix the rnadom bomb drops that could occassionaly happen. Maybe a small nerf and small buff in another area, so that it doesn't totally make an ability useless but the player has to put in a little more effort for their damage/support

[lunabaguna]

Rift was onto it when they created a pvp specific soul. However IMO they need to have two separate trees (exactly the same as far as abilities, placements and cost) but perform differently. That way when corrections have to be made they are made to the platform that they are designed.

 

I've gotten a lot of 'hate' comments on this, because of the I'm on a pvp server why should I have to suffer and I'm out farming mats and fighting npc's etc. But in reality it would be the only system that would guarantee that you wouldn't get a PVE nerf for a PVP issue.

 

I've actually thought a lot about this idea. I would love to see an mmo that has it coded in that x skill checks if player, if so, it does y damage. This way they can adjust damage and whatnot specifically for pvp without affecting pve.

[JustTed]

I would like to see PvP in its current form removed from the game (and some sort of separate system put in its place). This cycle will be endless as not even the so-called "gaming gods" at Blizzard can get the see-saw under control.

 

Yeah, you just can't balance PvP in a game this complex. It's being shoehorned into a genre it doesn't belong in because people demand it.

[TMar]

I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this subject. I hear a lot of:

 

Don't nerf us, buff all them.

 

In regards to something like the op nerf, where crits could essentially one shot people, how would you like to see other classes buffed to fix the problem? Keep in mind, saying something like "buff everyones hp or armor" gives rise to a damage nerf to every other class. Please discuss, I'd like to hear cogent ideas on the mentality of nerf vs buff.

 

They nerf things when they start performing outside of what was intended. This is why "buff the others" doesn't work, everyone else is working as intended. All the nerfs so far have been called for because burst was out of control for some, so instead of taking someone from 100% to 0% in the course of a stun and half they now wait to find 80% and take them to 0%.

[Tickletime]

im confident bw can come up with some pretty clever pvp systems, im just hoping that its done in a reasonable time.. BW really did a lot of amazing things to RPGs in DA and ME series, after enough practice it would be nice to see some "JAW-DROPPING" pvp/pve content.. GW 2 is working on some incredible stuff, BW def gonna have to step up especially since this a paid sub

[Arodin]

I think a major reason why people say this, and the reason why I would say it, is because some of us don't PvP much and are only concerned with PvE. And every time something gets nerfed because people complain about it in PvP, the effectiveness of that class is affected in PvE even if it wasn't overpowered in PvE to begin with.

 

If the only approach to class balance is to always nerf the one class that seems most powerful, eventually the PvE gameplay gets all messed up. I don't think they would let that happen intentionally, but nerfing that one ability that is perceived as overpowered is always the easiest solution to quiet the complaints from the PvP crowd. I think we have to occasionally remind them to at least consider buffing other classes instead of always going for the easy solution.

[Pink_Saber]

 

Don't nerf us, buff all them.

 

Hey, you asked...

 

Worst. Idea. Ever.

 

Making everyone overpowered trivializes everything, and gives you a boring game where everything is faceroll-easy. It'd be a horrible idea, and no game publisher who wants people actually playing would ever do it.

[Sinemetu]

It depends. To take an example from healing, mercs/troopers are the only healers without an in-combat rez. Buff them. On the other hand, sorcs are the only healers with an aoe heal that hits infinite targets. I'd say nerf them because the other aoe heals would be clearly OP with infinite targets.

 

That is to say, "it depends."

[Gerrard_Ennui]

I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this subject. I hear a lot of:

 

Don't nerf us, buff all them.

 

In regards to something like the op nerf, where crits could essentially one shot people, how would you like to see other classes buffed to fix the problem? Keep in mind, saying something like "buff everyones hp or armor" gives rise to a damage nerf to every other class. Please discuss, I'd like to hear cogent ideas on the mentality of nerf vs buff.

I'm not a MMO dev but I have played MMOs for over a decade, and It seems like you nerf/or buff the most isolated element in a system where imbalance exists.

 

It would make sense to bring an imbalanced system into equilibrium with the fewest possible adjustments, right? If that is indeed the case, its easy to see why a single class/ability/etc is adjusted downwards, rather than the values for everything else in the game adjusted upwards.

 

If I were developing an MMO, that's what my thinking would be.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[defiantlegacy]

Nerfing one is easier than buffing all.

 

Easier is always the route they will take.

[Nempo]

Want to get this PvP thing under control? First, get rid of a PvP stat...it only ruins PvP in the long term. Seperate PvP and PvE gear based on the stats, give PvP gear more endurence/hp and give PvE gear more side stats...defense/crit/surge/alacrity/etc.

 

Want to farther fix PvP? The game should check for shield chance before crit chance, as it stands shields are marginally useful at best in PvP making all the absorbtion on PvP gear and PvE gear WORTHLESS. Crits should still get shielded against, this will solve a lot of issues with tanks aparently being squishier than they should be (yes, a DPS against a tank should die nearly every time due to essentially beating on a 10 foot thick steel wall with a twig).

 

Fix FPS rates as it would appear there are still problems in Huttball for people. Remove alacrity from activation times of objects as it is possible to stack alacrity on gear then use an alacrity stim and an alacrity relic to get a 1 sec cap on voidstar doors, this needs to end.

[Traumahawk]

im confident bw can come up with some pretty clever pvp systems, im just hoping that its done in a reasonable time.. BW really did a lot of amazing things to RPGs in DA and ME series, after enough practice it would be nice to see some "JAW-DROPPING" pvp/pve content.. GW 2 is working on some incredible stuff, BW def gonna have to step up especially since this a paid sub

 

Not sure about Bioware coming up with it... let's be honest, if the game were chock full of innovative new ways of keeping players entertained while having "meh" PvP, then I could see that happening. But as it stands, chances of Bioware creating such a system is pretty close to none.

 

However, as I've said many times, a separate system that levels, grows more powerful and is customizable outside your normal character is probably the only way. You have to quarantine PvE from PvP.

[Skoll]

It's a LOT easier to nerf one ability than it is to buff everything else. It's easier to achieve any kind of balance if you do the former. All you have to do is to gradually buff it again until it reaches a level you like. If you buff everything then you end up trivializing all content, unless you buff that too... which brings you right back to square one. Not to mention that it's a helluva lot more work.

[Varus_Praetor]

Unless BW figures out how to separate PvP and PvE so that the endless and perpetual cycle of buffs/nerfs doesn't affect my game play I'll be ditching SWTOR as soon as I get through the more interesting class stories. I bailed on WoW for the same reason. I fully understand that the "nerf bat" is part of modern MMO's, but I don't enjoy it and I'm certainly not going to pay money for the pleasure of the experience.

 

Why can't we have dual specs and a PvP tree that is ONLY useful for PvP. They can nerf/buff that to their hearts content without impacting the rest of the game. Or figure out a better way of making abilities scale differently in PvP than PvE. None of the attempts to do this have been very successful IMO.