ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How exactly do you source living experiance?? Give me a break?? Why don't you source driving to work?? Or going to the park?? You can call it opinion if you want.. Good that we have your blessing, since that's what it is... Why else would they get rid of them because dual speccing rendered them useless?? Simplify balance. Blizzard has been on the "make it simpler and we might actually be able to balance it" strat for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I just don't get why people can't understand that your advanced class is your CLASS post level 10.Because it isn't My class is still consular after level 10. I still go through the consular storyline. I still get all of the consular abilities. I get additional special abilities for my first specialization (Shadow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) As for "no specs" you see that little part at the side of the talents that says "Specialisation." that's actually the big word for Spec, incase you didn't know. Click on a 'spec' and oh look...specific skills pertaining to that specialisation. The ability to pick one of 3 skills every what? 10 levels or so really makes me feel like I am a specialist in something. I support AC change, It is pretty dumb not to have it, telling me my trooper cant put on some heavy armor and a smaller gun to do battle. But I can share Assault tree among AC's, and will be able to jump from my Gunnery to Medic soon? Who levels two Troopers? or two of any class? Ya I could, but wow talk about wasting time on the same story/class missions,planets. Time better spent on a new class. Make AC change 1mil creds or somthing. It is only a matter of time til it is in. Devs ideas change as the $$ & game moves forward. And this is where you're playing the game wrong. We all know the classes are mirrored. So You play a commando on one character and a Power Tech on another. You get to experience the different AC AND a different class story. Hell you even get to experience a whole bunch of different quests. Me? I went the who shabang. On Empire: Power Tech Sorcerer Operative Marauder On Republic: Commando Shadow Gunslinger Guardian That way I get to experience the game mechanic of each AC AND experience each Class Story. It's a win/win. Edited February 21, 2012 by DarthKhaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazirus- Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Now it's looking like lucasarts smartly ejected from the project, rather than EA buying them out to retain full control over the IP. hahahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Simplify balance. Blizzard has been on the "make it simpler and we might actually be able to balance it" strat for a while. I am glad we agree.. It started with dual speccing shortly after Lich King was released.. We can see where WOW is now.. FACT: Wow is losing subscriptions.. You can blame that on whatever you want.. But since dual speccing.. WOW hasn't been going in the right direction.. FACT: Nobody has desputed or proven that what I said is incorrect.. FACT: My opininions are sound and based on logic.. Unless someone else comes up with their own view, pointing out that someone else's is opinion does not make those views automatically wrong.. Nor does it make you correct.. Especially when you haven't even stated a view yet and explained why you have that view.. Dual speccing contributed in the down fall of WOW.. FACT: There will be no talent trees when the Pandas are released.. (Link was provided in earlier post.) I am glad that AC switching will never happen.. I would also prefer than dual speccing didn't happen either.. I think the easy and convenient crowed are trying to ruin yet another game.. Let's hope that Bioware can learn from the mistakes of Blizzard.. Where ever you put the blame.. I think everyone can agree that Bioware needs to learn from the mistakes of Blizzard.. Edited February 21, 2012 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I find it funny reading some of these posts. you do all know that an MMO is in it's very core a time sink. Everything takes time, whether it be questiong, raiding, rep building, gear hoarding(and in the case of TOR, travelling). If you all want easy street gaming then you are really are playing the wrong genre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I am glad we agree.. It started with dual speccing shortly after Lich King was released.. We can see here WOW is now.. FACT: Wow is losing subscriptions.. You can blame that on whatever you want.. But since dual speccing.. WOW hasn't been going in the right direction.. If you're blaming dual spec, that's a clear post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. FACT: My opininions are sound and based on logic.. No, they're not sound, and the only logic involved is fallacious logic, in fact. I am glad that AC switching will never happen.. That's conjecture, at best. We know it's not planned for now. We don't know that it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 you do all know that an MMO is in it's very core a time sink. Everything takes time, whether it be questiong, raiding, rep building, gear hoarding(and in the case of TOR, travelling).No, actually time sinks specifically refer to unfun time that does not do anything meaningful in the context of the game. having to re-level another character through the exact same storyline to get the game play of the other spec's that aren't available under my primary spec (Shadow) is a time sink. Most of the other things you mention are not time sinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 WOW did a good job for being the first multimillion western MMO ever made.fixed. and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, actually time sinks specifically refer to unfun time that does not do anything meaningful in the context of the game. having to re-level another character through the exact same storyline to get the game play of the other spec's that aren't available under my primary spec (Shadow) is a time sink. Most of the other things you mention are not time sinks. Don't level with the exact same storyline. Roll a Sorcerer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyus Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) god they should have just called your starting class "pre-classes" and your advanced class "Classes" so that people could get that what you become at level 10 is a whole completely seperate class. Dual specs are fine with me, great to have a dedicated pvp build and pve. Edited February 21, 2012 by Kyus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Quote: Most of the other things you mention are not time sinks. ------ hmm...they are all time sinks. This is a game, the entire playing of it is a time sink. What BW do is try to devise more and repeated ways for you to spend that time in game. Questing is a time sink crafting is a time sink raiding is a time sink pvp is a time sink It is all a time sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 rift... Rift let you select from 8 skill trees. Those are not classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Don't level with the exact same storyline. Roll a Sorcerer.a sorcerer isn't a sage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Well, in that case, WoW's system is stupid and I hope they won't copy it. And you still can't change from being a Druid to being a Mage?I don't want to change from a druid to a mage. I want to change from a Jedi consular who's specialized as a shadow to a Jedi consular who's specialized as a sage. Also, is there a WoW class that you can dual spec to be either melee or ranged? Yes. Feral druid (tank spec)Feral druid (melee dps spec)Balance druid (range caster dps spec)restoration druid (ranged healer spec) and Elemental shaman (ranged caster dps)enhancement Shaman (melee dps)restoration shaman (ranged healer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 ffxi/ffxiv I love how every time AC respec is brought up someone mentions FFXI's system which is COMPLETELY different from what people are asking for in AC respec... AC respec is essentially going from a 50 sentinel to a 50 guardian.... FFXI when you went back to your mog house and talked to the moogle you were switching your class but you were not "respecing" as each class had its individual levels since you only need one toon to level every class (which imo was amazing, your toon was yours, no rolling alts to level something else and I wish more mmo's would adopt this feature). If you were a 75 monk and wished to be a white mage, when you spoke to the moogle you would be a level 1 white mage. Leveled up to 10 then went back to your 75 monk, then later went back to your level 10 white mage. The concept is 100% completely different from a respec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't want to change from a druid to a mage. I want to change from a Jedi consular who's specialized as a shadow to a Jedi consular who's specialized as a sage. You are essentially going from a rogue like class to a mage like class... Your AC is your class... If you want to be a sage then re roll, just like if a warrior wants to be a paladin he has to re roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Rift let you select from 8 skill trees. Those are not classes. I'm pretty sure they were called classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjaven Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) god they should have just called your starting class "pre-classes" and your advanced class "Classes" so that people could get that what you become at level 10 is a whole completely seperate class. Dual specs are fine with me, great to have a dedicated pvp build and pve. Yeah, I have a feeling a lot of people are getting worked up over semantics. There's a valid point to be made, though, regarding advanced classes, storylines, and defining class abilities. I have several guildmates who love the Imperial Agent story. But, some chose an Operative and found out it didn't really click with them, while some chose Sniper and decided they didn't care for the cover system. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except they only learned this after their class actually came into its own, which comes pretty slowly. TOR is kind of slow in giving classes useful abilities it needs to actually serve a role, so oftentimes choosing to reroll is more than just replaying the 1-10 planet. And, since almost everyone ends up pretty invested in their characters story, that makes it doubly hard and frustrating to just start over. It's not impossible, but no one likes losing their progress mid-way through a satisfying RPG. Changing between advanced classes at will, however, is too much. If you find you don't like the advanced class you pick, I'd like to see some functionality to fix that. But I wouldn't want an infinitely repeatable thing like talent swaps. As far as dual specs go, I can't wait to see them, especially since some of the ops encounters like to change up the number of required tanks mid-dungeon. Bonethrasher requires zero, the bounty hunter duo takes 2, foreman takes 1, or 2 depending on gear, fabricator takes 2 and karagga takes 1, with Eternity Vault behaving similarly. It'll be nice to fill out gaps with dual spec to fit the encounters. Edited February 21, 2012 by itsjaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 FFXI handles the class system a little differently. It's somewhat akin to the mixed class system of Dungeons and Dragons. You have a main class and a secondary class. You get the full level of your main class, and half the level of your secondary class. Your growth tends to be slower than "pure" classes however, but the potential tends to be greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 You are essentially going from a rogue like class to a mage like class... No, I'm talking about respeccing from enhancement to elemental. or, more accurately, from feral (tank) to restoration. Your AC is your class... No, my class is my class. my advanced class is my first specialization. If you want to be a sage then just keep asking for it, just like if a druid tank who wants to be a druid healer he has to respec.Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 EQ2 had dual specs through AA mirors in your house before wow had a duel spec. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?!!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WoW didnt create everything in the MMO genre?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What sort of madness is this your speaking?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, I'm talking about respeccing from enhancement to elemental. or, more accurately, from feral (tank) to restoration. No, my class is my class. my advanced class is my first specialization. Fixed. Wrong on every count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wrong on every count.So, you couldn't come up with any supporting evidence, and just fall back on asserting "no no no no" while sticking your fingers in your ears? Warriors and paladins share none of the same abilities. Feral (tank) druids and restoration druids share some of the same abilities, but have some specific ones gained by their class. Shadow (tank) consulars and sage (healer) consulars share some of the same abilities, but have some specific ones gained by their class. clearly: the advance class change for a shadow tank to a sage healer is analogous to switching from feral tank spec to restoration healing spec for a druid, and is not analogous to a changing from a warrior to a paladin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So, you couldn't come up with any supporting evidence, and just fall back on asserting "no no no no" while sticking your fingers in your ears? Warriors and paladins share none of the same abilities. Feral (tank) druids and restoration druids share some of the same abilities, but have some specific ones gained by their class. Shadow (tank) consulars and sage (healer) consulars share some of the same abilities, but have some specific ones gained by their class. clearly: the advance class change for a shadow tank to a sage healer is analogous to switching from feral tank spec to restoration healing spec for a druid, and is not analogous to a changing from a warrior to a paladin.. Except it's another game, not WoW. If you want a game that is TOTALLY like WoW (even though this one is very similar in many aspects) there's an excellent option for you, it still has about 10 million subscribers etc. Google it if you want. By the way, all analogies' validity depend on where you draw the line. Both the Jedi Knight and the Jedi Consular are Jedi and use lightsabers (and training sabers and vibroswords). Why can't I switch between them? Still a firm NO to being able to switch from a stealth melee class to a ranged caster class. Even if WoW allows it. It defeats the entire point of character progression of an RPG if you can do just about anything within a single character. I know many people want MMO action games instead of RPGs but don't let them succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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