Dual-spec Coming and no changing advanced classes!

[Raelstrom]

Dual Spec is coming and it is only a matter of time. Pretty exciting.

 

I for one am all for this idea, I'm just hoping people stop complaining that they can't change their advanced class. It just doesn't make sense whether there is a story or not involved, if you want to change to the other advanced class make a new guy!

 

Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon.

 

From this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-10th-2012 <-- read it

 

Here is another post on it http://1stvideogame.com/?p=2504

 

I have a serious issue with the changing of AC. Thank you for keeping that out of the game.

[Lexster]

Bottom line:

 

If they're gonna say that the two advanced classes are essentially two different classes, and that's the reason why they are philosophically opposed to switching advanced classes...

 

then I'm gonna say : "Why on earth do I have the same class quests/story for two different classes"?

 

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.... or should I say, can't have my money and slap me too.

 

Some people pay extra for that slap. Just sayin.

[BuckyCameron]

Does dual spec mean I can be a Jedi Guardian, and Sentinal?

[DarthKhaos]

People are ALWAYS gonna complain about something. That include the thing they asked for when they get it.

[chaosdefined]

Does dual spec mean I can be a Jedi Guardian, and Sentinal?

 

Sadly not, it just means if you want to switch your talent tree you don't have to constantly pay to do so.

 

I honestly wish they'd bring in Dual-Speccing for Advanced Class choices. I think it's a terribly poor game philosophy to limit your choices.

 

I mean, for example, say like me you rolled an inquisitor and for Advanced Class you though, hmm Assassin sounds fun, kinda like a rogue! Then you get all the way to near top level and discover ok so, pure dps kinda sucks, everyone needs a healer. So you're left with the choice of stick it out as pure dps or reroll your character from scratch.

 

At least in WoW I can dual-spec my character to be DPS/Healer for whatever is needed.

 

And before I'm told "you could have chosen scorcerer and then you'd get to be a healer or dps." what's the point in having the Assassin spec then?

[MajikMyst]

Does dual spec mean I can be a Jedi Guardian, and Sentinal?

 

No.. It means you can reset your talent tree and respec.. But you will still be a Guardian or Sentinel..

 

There will be NO AC switching.. Your AC is your class and will remain so..

[Sanquind]

LOL! News of dual spec coming is out now, and already people are complaining about AC dual speccing! *** guys? Stop being so effing entitled! You get what you want, but it's not good enough and you want even more? Ugh...

[Siorac]

Sadly not, it just means if you want to switch your talent tree you don't have to constantly pay to do so.

 

I honestly wish they'd bring in Dual-Speccing for Advanced Class choices. I think it's a terribly poor game philosophy to limit your choices.

 

I mean, for example, say like me you rolled an inquisitor and for Advanced Class you though, hmm Assassin sounds fun, kinda like a rogue! Then you get all the way to near top level and discover ok so, pure dps kinda sucks, everyone needs a healer. So you're left with the choice of stick it out as pure dps or reroll your character from scratch.

 

At least in WoW I can dual-spec my character to be DPS/Healer for whatever is needed.

 

And before I'm told "you could have chosen scorcerer and then you'd get to be a healer or dps." what's the point in having the Assassin spec then?

 

Why have classes and advanced classes at all then? I suggest they should allow base class switching as well. Why not?

 

An Assassin/Shadow plays nothing like a Sorcerer/Sage. A Sentinel/Marauder even uses a different resource than a Guardian/Juggernaut and different armor type as well. A Scoundrel/Operative is NOTHING like a Gunslinger/Sniper.

 

Advanced classes are basically separate classes. Not all WoW classes can choose between all three roles (DPS/healer/Tank) as far as I'm aware. Can Rogues tank? Nope (they can't, right?) So if you find out a Rogue isn't for you, do you demand to be able to switch to a Paladin or Warrior? After all, it's "terrible design philosophy to limit your choices".

 

Shadows/Assassins can't heal. They can tank or DPS. They play nothing like Sages/Sorcerers who can heal or DPS. No one person will be able to fill all three roles with a respec and that's how it should be.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Siorac

[Mamono]

I agree...

 

Dual Spec Change: Good

Advanced Class Change: Bad

 

...glad to hear that.

 

I have to disagree.

That is because I like to heal and tank more then I like to do DPS.

If I could have healing and tanking spec I would be forever happy. But no. There are no classes that has healing and tanking spec in one spesialisation.

 

And no, I wont reroll. 95% of everything you do on the new character have you alredy done on the 1st character. There is NO change, execpt from taht 1 "small" class quest line.

I dont like the story in this game. I dont care much for the story at all. IMO It could have been left out.

What I care about is to play with my friends and guild mates. That is what counts for me.

 

 

Advanced classes are basically separate classes. Not all WoW classes can choose between DPS/healer/Tank role as far as I'm aware. Can Rogues tank? Nope (they can't, right?) So if you find out a Rogue isn't for you, do you demand to be able to switch to a Paladin or Warrior? After all, it's "terrible design philosophy to limit your choices".

 

Shadows/Assassins can't heal. They can tank or DPS. They play nothing like Sages/Sorcerers who can heal or DPS. No one person will be able to fill all three roles with a respec and that's how it should be.

 

 

I suggest you take a look at Rift. They have "only" 4 classes in the whole game too. 3 of them can tank, 3 of them can heal, all 4 of them can dps, and you can have 5 different specs.

But then again, you don’t have only 3 talent trees, you have 8 to choose from (you can only use 3 of the trees at one time though).

That is one thing I found really cool about Rift, that you could "build" your own tanking/healing/dps spec that fit you and your game style. The system is really nice.

The talent system and multi spec system makes the MMO part of the game much more flowing and flexible.

 

As SWToR is now it is on a standstill and flexibility does not exist.

Calling a free respec ones a week for flexible is like asphalt for calling concrete hard.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Mamono

[Mamono]

Editet..... Edited February 20, 2012 by Mamono

[chaosdefined]

Why have classes and advanced classes at all then? I suggest they should allow base class switching as well. Why not?

 

An Assassin/Shadow plays nothing like a Sorcerer/Sage. A Sentinel/Marauder even uses a different resource than a Guardian/Juggernaut and different armor type as well. A Scoundrel/Operative is NOTHING like a Gunslinger/Sniper.

 

Advanced classes are basically separate classes. Not all WoW classes can choose between all three roles (DPS/healer/Tank) as far as I'm aware. Can Rogues tank? Nope (they can't, right?) So if you find out a Rogue isn't for you, do you demand to be able to switch to a Paladin or Warrior? After all, it's "terrible design philosophy to limit your choices".

 

Shadows/Assassins can't heal. They can tank or DPS. They play nothing like Sages/Sorcerers who can heal or DPS. No one person will be able to fill all three roles with a respec and that's how it should be.

 

As the person above this comment has said, currently there are no Tank/Healer classes in the game which means if you enjoy Tanking and Healing you'll have to roll two seperate characters and level them up.

 

Is tanking on an Assassin actually viable? I've yet to see one in a flashpoint?

[MajikMyst]

Why have classes and advanced classes at all then? I suggest they should allow base class switching as well. Why not?

 

The biggest reason why is actually quite simple..

 

Why have a class or a spec at all?? If we can change our class or spec at will whenever we want.. Why have a class or a spec.. At that point it would just be easier to give us all the same Assualt cannon, saber wielding, smuggler, with all the same talents.. Then there would be nothing to change..

 

Swapping AC's or class is actually a very bad idea.. People level one character, one class to level 50.. Why should they be allowed to change to another without having to level it to 50?? All this dual speccing is totally going to ruin this game.. It ruined WOW.. When Mists of Pandera comes out.. There won't be talent trees anymore.. That is right.. No more talent trees.. Dual speccing ruined that game as far as talent trees go.. What is the point of having them when you could preset at least 2 of the three trees?? Every class basically became a two branch talent tree character.. Instead of three branches..

 

In people's quest for ease and convenience, they forgot what an MMO actually was.. Nothing in an MMO should be easy or convenient.. People should have to roll another character if they want to play a different class.. I have no issue with the skill mentor as it is set up now.. That allows people to play with their specs and try new things.. But still make it very costly for people to use as a dual spec mechanism..

 

There should be no dual speccing and no AS swapping.. People need to earn their characters.. They need to level every one.. They also need to learn to be happy with the specs they choose..

[MajikMyst]

I suggest you take a look at Rift.

 

Just a small FYI.. This is not Rift.. It doesn't matter how they do it in Rift.. Rift could have flying elephant creatures with pink bows.. Doesn't mean this game needs them too..

 

No to dual speccing and no to AC swapping..

[chaosdefined]

Just a small FYI.. This is not Rift.. It doesn't matter how they do it in Rift.. Rift could have flying elephant creatures with pink bows.. Doesn't mean this game needs them too..

 

No to dual speccing and no to AC swapping..

 

You fail at understanding marketing then.

 

When you have a product, you want it to succeed, so you look at the current market and see what is working and why. You then take those ideas and incorporate them into your own product to ensure maximum market success.

 

Sticking the mindset of "no change, no flexibility" and not looking to other games for inspiration is just stupidity.

 

We're not saying allow us to change from a Sith Marauder to a Bounty Hunter whenever we want. We're asking that we be able to switch between Healing and Tanking for when required.

[Siorac]

I suggest you take a look at Rift. They have "only" 4 classes in the whole game too. 3 of them can tank, 3 of them can heal, all 4 of them can dps, and you can have 5 different specs.

But then again, you don’t have only 3 talent trees, you have 8 to choose from (you can only use 3 of the trees at one time though).

That is one thing I found really cool about Rift, that you could "build" your own tanking/healing/dps spec that fit you and your game style. The system is really nice.

The talent system and multi spec system makes the MMO part of the game much more flowing and flexible.

 

As SWToR is now it is on a standstill and flexibility does not exist.

Calling a free respec ones a week for flexible is like asphalt for calling concrete hard.

 

Now you're asking for an entire redesign of the game. The debate isn't about whether a flexible class system is the way to go or not. The question is whether Advanced Class switching makes sense in the context of THIS game. And it doesn't, not one bit. From a roleplaying perspective (which gets shat on by every single MMORPG these days, this one being the only credible exception) even respeccing is iffy, to say the least.

 

And evidently, Bioware wanted you to reroll if you enjoy tanking and healing at the same time. They put all that voice acting and story in the game at enormous cost, they're meant to be seen and enjoyed. That's how it is in this game; if you don't like that, you don't like one of the fundamental design concepts of it; in which case, you could try another MMO. Rift is still going strong. This game is very alt-friendly; if you only want ONE character and want to play ALL roles with that one, you have to look for another game.

[Rollcageuk]

With reagrds to AC respeccing the aruguement is simple.

 

you want to beable to swap between a Jedi Sentinel and a Guardian. 2 completely different classes with different skills, abilities, and armour. but you want to to be able to swap freely with one character.

 

So using that arguement, I should be able to respec with lvl 50 sentinel as a sage or a shadow. Why not, whay can I change from sentinel to guardian but not sentinel to sage? what in fact is the big difference?

and then why not smuggler respec or trooper?

So basically all I need is one imperial and one republic char and I can play all classes?!?!?

 

infact I've also seen posts asking for the abilityt o change sides, so in the whole game, I charascter and I can play everything..job done!!

 

If you want an easy street game, where you don't actually have to do....anything, go play something else, it's obvious that MMO's are not for you, so just leave, uninstall and those of us that know what the point of the game is will carry on.

 

idiots

[Mamono]

Now you're asking for an entire redesign of the game. The debate isn't about whether a flexible class system is the way to go or not. The question is whether Advanced Class switching makes sense in the context of THIS game. And it doesn't, not one bit. From a roleplaying perspective (which gets shat on by every single MMORPG these days, this one being the only credible exception) even respeccing is iffy, to say the least.

 

And evidently, Bioware wanted you to reroll if you enjoy tanking and healing at the same time. They put all that voice acting and story in the game at enormous cost, they're meant to be seen and enjoyed. That's how it is in this game; if you don't like that, you don't like one of the fundamental design concepts of it; in which case, you could try another MMO. Rift is still going strong. This game is very alt-friendly; if you only want ONE character and want to play ALL roles with that one, you have to look for another game.

 

I would not mind rerolling, if LvLing up again was not so god damne painfull, boring.

Going trougn it 1ns is find and OK, but again? No way in hell. You have no chance to do something new. No where to go. Just to do the same exact missions over and over again.

It is the WORST way of LvLing ever. Doing the same missions over and over again. Why would I want to do that?

 

Knowing that I will not see anything new makes me not want to reroll. Their so called "LvLing experiance" is only experianced 1 time. The next time is like waching a bad movie a 2nd time. Just in slow motion.

[MajikMyst]

You fail at understanding marketing then.

 

When you have a product, you want it to succeed, so you look at the current market and see what is working and why. You then take those ideas and incorporate them into your own product to ensure maximum market success.

 

Sticking the mindset of "no change, no flexibility" and not looking to other games for inspiration is just stupidity.

 

We're not saying allow us to change from a Sith Marauder to a Bounty Hunter whenever we want. We're asking that we be able to switch between Healing and Tanking for when required.

 

I know a lot about marketing.. Can you explain how that applies to this discussion?? Can you explain why you are not looking at the effects of Dual speccing is having on WOW?? WOW has losing subscriptions right now.. Over 2 million since shortly before the release of Cataclysm.. Why will there no longer be talent trees..

 

If one company does something and it doesn't have a positive impact on the community as a whole and contributed to a loss in customers.. Why on earth would another company want to make the same mistake??

 

Nobody said anything about sticking to the mindset of no change.. Please quote where that statement was made?? I don't recall anyone in this thread or Bioware making that comment except you..

 

You need to read this thread again.. Some people are asking for an our right character change.. There is no character in the game that can do both heal and tank for a reason.. Market analsys says that more people want those to be on seperate classes.. Having both healing and tanking on the same class can cause an inbalance in other classes being made.. Everyone will make the healing tank class.. Yes, in WOW.. The most popular classes were druids and Paladins.. There is a reason that tanks and healers can't be the same class..

 

So much for marketing eh??

[MajikMyst]

I would not mind rerolling, if LvLing up again was not so gosh darne painfull, boring.

 

How is it any different than any other MMO?? You are still going to be doing countless duplicate quests in WOW.. Reguardless of what class you are.. From 58-85 will be nothing but duplicate quests.. All Outland quests are the same.. All Northren, and Cataclysm quests are the same.. So don't act like it is such a chore to level in this game Vs. any other.. Every MMO has duplicate quests..

 

Besides, what do you think dailies are?? Did you not do any dailies?? You act like doing quests over and over is something new and limited to this game?? You are completely wrong.. WOW proved that people will do the same quests over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.. I remember doing dailies on 4 characters.. Having to do the same dailies 4 times a day.. I guess you never played WOW did you?? Or any other MMO that has dailies??

Edited February 20, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Mamono]

I know a lot about marketing.. Can you explain how that applies to this discussion?? Can you explain why you are not looking at the effects of Dual speccing is having on WOW?? WOW has losing subscriptions right now.. Over 2 million since shortly before the release of Cataclysm.. Why will there no longer be talent trees..

 

If one company does something and it doesn't have a positive impact on the community as a whole and contributed to a loss in customers.. Why on earth would another company want to make the same mistake??

 

Nobody said anything about sticking to the mindset of no change.. Please quote where that statement was made?? I don't recall anyone in this thread or Bioware making that comment except you..

 

You need to read this thread again.. Some people are asking for an our right character change.. There is no character in the game that can do both heal and tank for a reason.. Market analsys says that more people want those to be on seperate classes.. Having both healing and tanking on the same class can cause an inbalance in other classes being made.. Everyone will make the healing tank class.. Yes, in WOW.. The most popular classes were druids and Paladins.. There is a reason that tanks and healers can't be the same class..

 

So much for marketing eh??

 

Again you are talking nonsens. Just empty words. You have no idea what is wrong with WoW. Non what so ever.

 

If dual-spec was the reason WoW is doing "bad" this days, then WoW should not have gotten out of vanilla at all.

 

Please stop posting nonsens like this because you dont know what you are talking about.

 

Dual-spec will help SWToR to be more flexible and help the players to enjoy the game more. Dual-spec should have been in the game at release.

For your info, dual-spec was in the Beta, but did not work so it was removed.

 

To bad for you that dual-spec is coming.

[Mamono]

How is it any different than any other MMO?? You are still going to be doing countless duplicate quests in WOW.. Reguardless of what class you are.. From 58-85 will be nothing but duplicate quests.. All Outland quests are the same.. All Northren, and Cataclysm quests are the same.. So don't act like it is such a chore to level in this game Vs. any other.. Every MMO has duplicate quests..

 

In WoW you can choose between minimum 2 different areas/lines to follow.

In SWToR you have to follow 1 line all the way to the end no matter what class you pick. Only the 1st 10 LvLs is different. Well, to a degree.

What they have done later on I give a flying F about. SWToR did the wrong thing by making ONLY 1 line to follow. And then brag about how much they build up around LvLing and rerolling.

 

SWToR is supposed to be the most "innovative" MMO when it comes to LvLing and rerolling. How innovative is having only 1 line trough the whole game?

[Siorac]

I would not mind rerolling, if LvLing up again was not so gosh darne painfull, boring.

Going trougn it 1ns is find and OK, but again? No way in hell. You have no chance to do something new. No where to go. Just to do the same exact missions over and over again.

It is the WORST way of LvLing ever. Doing the same missions over and over again. Why would I want to do that?

 

Knowing that I will not see anything new makes me not want to reroll. Their so called "LvLing experiance" is only experianced 1 time. The next time is like waching a bad movie a 2nd time. Just in slow motion.

 

But that is your very subjective opinion about the leveling experience (that you find it horribly boring) which does not justify Advanced Class switching. The whole system should be completely re-designed to make that viable. And by that I mean they would have to remove ACs entirely and only leave the talent trees. I don't want that, you probably do.

[Akirator]

Again you are talking nonsens. Just empty words. You have no idea what is wrong with WoW. Non what so ever.

 

If dual-spec was the reason WoW is doing "bad" this days, then WoW should not have gotten out of vanilla at all.

 

Please stop posting nonsens like this because you dont know what you are talking about.

 

Dual-spec will help SWToR to be more flexible and help the players to enjoy the game more. Dual-spec should have been in the game at release.

For your info, dual-spec was in the Beta, but did not work so it was removed.

 

To bad for you that dual-spec is coming.

 

Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

"should not have gotten out of vanilla"? You do realize dual-spec was introduced in patch 3.1 which was after wrath released. And when did the subs start coming down from their high, thats right, in WRATH.

 

Not saying dual-spec itself hurt wow, but it was part of the whole "making the game easier" that you yourself admitted was hurting wow.

[Mamono]

But that is your very subjective opinion about the leveling experience (that you find it horribly boring) which does not justify Advanced Class switching. The whole system should be completely re-designed to make that viable. And by that I mean they would have to remove ACs entirely and only leave the talent trees. I don't want that, you probably do.

 

How do you know that? Do you have some inside infomation and knowledge about how they made the system?

 

But I guess it will not come atm. In a year or two maybe, but not now. My words are written to blind readers atm. But remember what i say now that in a few years Advanced Class will be of the past.

[MajikMyst]

Again you are talking nonsens. Just empty words. You have no idea what is wrong with WoW. Non what so ever. .

 

The words are empty because you don't want to acknowlege their accuracy.. That is the simple truth.

 

I have played WOW since Vanilla.. The differences between vanilla and BC are pretty minor.. 40 man raids were shrunk to 25 man.. Other than that.. Not much worth mentionion.. Other than all the new stuff.. BC is arguably their best expansion.. Players specialized in what they did and were good at it.. People were in guilds to play and do raids.. Raids took time and effort to play.. I remember doing Kara for the first time.. Took about 3 months or so.. SSC and BT took much longer..

 

Lich King comes out.. Dual speccing is released.. Raides are nerfed due to the drop in player skill.. LFG is released, and small guilds and less established guilds start having recruiting issues.. People start using LFG more than guilds for groups.. People are rewarded for using the LFG system and given a PUG pet.. By the end of Lich King and about 4 months before Cata, My guild merged with about 6 smaller guilds who would have otherwise disbanded..

 

Cata essentially put the nail in the coffin for many.. People hoped it would fix many of these issues.. It didn't.. Heroics were way to long to do.. For BC and LK the standard number of bosses was 3 maybe 4 bosses for a heroic.. Cata introduced some that had 6 to 9 bosses in a heroic.. Again, quality of player had deminished again due to pugs.. There was no longer a sense of playing as a team.. People were there for the loot and if you wiped more than 4 times, some people would leave to look for another group.. Usually the tank or healer.. Nobody wanted to learn bosses.. If this was happening for a heroic?? Why even attempt a raid?? The day that Deathwing was released.. My old guild one shot him.. Yes.. They one shot Deathwing.. It took us about 5 to 6 months just to get to LK.. Took us about a month to actually kill him and get our titles.. This was before the Cata nerf..

 

So don't tell me what I do or don't know.. I know exactly what killed WOW..

 

Dual speccing certianly contributed to it.. But yes, there were some other issues..

 

But hey, these are just empty words and I am just a fanboi right?? Still, you have yet to actually make a point..

Edited February 20, 2012 by MajikMyst