How to stop leavers in warzones without a stupid penalty

[Cebby]

I would enjoy participation based rewards. Problem is, people dont just quit to save time.

 

How many of these kids are trying hard so they can get back to their chores?

 

I pvp get my wins (from winning) usually quickly unless its especially steep competition. (curse you Malice!) Then i keep pvp'ing all night long.. hey, its fun.

 

What prevents people from quitting when dailies are complete.

[Talkative]

OP's ideas have merit. Not saying implement nao, just that if I have 2 hours to get my **** done, and I get queued into fail teams in WZ, I'm going to stop queuing for WZs and just get the other stuff done.

[skyflash]

I constantly top the boards AND am the #1 objective oriented person on my team.

 

Yes in your own mind you are the biggest and greatest, and in the world in your head your idea is great and works perfectly.

 

Sadly, you will never see it happen in reality because everyone but you and your teenage friends knows its not a working game mechanic.

 

Now go off and grind wins for your T3 like you should so you can cancel your sub soon.

[Aethyrprime]

OP's ideas have merit. Not saying implement nao, just that if I have 2 hours to get my **** done, and I get queued into fail teams in WZ, I'm going to stop queuing for WZs and just get the other stuff done.

 

Thanks. People complain about a problem with leaving. I point out the cause of the problem and they try to defame my character with personal attacks and innuendos, don't worry as an adult they are merely some added anecdotal comedy a midst the many pages of support. I'll be here for the long haul on fighting to change the system to be one that rewards a person for working to help their team vs their argument to keep a socialist communistic welfare form of afkers get credit for dailies off my hard work type system that we have now.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[Zlashie]

Just make leaving impossible.

 

If you log back in, you will be in the same BG until it ends.

 

If you AFK, you get nothing.

 

If you are AFK / offline when the BG ends you get a 15 mins ban from BGs (logged in time)

 

Players will not be queued into games that are running.

 

If the team runs out of people, they lose.

 

That way leavers have to either log in a twink or go AFK, neither will help their main to become better.

 

"FFS, we have two people in the group standing still and we cant get rid of them"

 

"oh damn... I DCed right before the match ended and got 15min ban from the game. F'ck this game"

 

"Ok we are definitly going to loose. Im just going to AFK. Il make a sandwitch while the 15min pass".

 

three examples to why your idea is horrible

[Gonewild]

I like the idea of participants being rewarded based on participation. I'm visualizing a similar reward system as Battlefield 3, where player's actions ingame earn them points, medals and ultimately exp. toward the player's progression.

 

I fully support a valor penalty subtracted from the deserter's pool.

[Boshlord]

or make people who leave get a deserter debuff like in wow. People may not like some of wow's solutions to problems but there is a reason they are #1 in mmo's.

 

deserter debuff that lasts an hour of in game time each time a person leaves a wz, and make leaving a trackable stat so when someone has left enough times they lose the ability to queue up for wz for a month or more. if after a month they leave again, their character is banned from queueing for wz.

 

That's a great way to lose subscriptions let's force people to play with baddies or lose out on what they are intrested in... if the happens ill instantly unsub and I don't even. Leave often

[skyflash]

useless trolling

 

Yeah whatever.

 

You will see that we get the deserter debuff soon, which makes that idea way better than your idea.

 

Then you can cry, whine, unsub, whatever pleases you.

[Aethyrprime]

I like the idea of participants being rewarded based on participation. I'm visualizing a similar reward system as Battlefield 3, where player's actions ingame earn them points, medals and ultimately exp. toward the player's progression.

 

I fully support a valor penalty subtracted from the deserter's pool.

 

Yep, If the daily system was fixed there would be so few deserters by comparison even I wouldn't care if it existed.

 

Yeah whatever.

 

You will see that we get the deserter debuff soon, which makes that idea way better than your idea.

 

Then you can cry, whine, unsub, whatever pleases you.

 

You can't have it both ways. Either helping your team win is good or doing nothing to help your team win other than taking up a slot is good. It is black and white.

 

My suggestion is two fold, 1 part (the main part) is objective based capturing points, scoring or aiding someone who does counts toward your progression, with the added bonus of doing enough damage, healing and protecting during the matches for either a bonus reward or as part of the main quest. The very things you SHOULD be doing to help your team win.

 

Everything you said has no logical nor factual basis. You are defending your right to afk in the warzone and still get credit. There is no grey area here. Either you are supporting the afkers ability to get as much credit as the person who is scoring and capping, or you are not.

 

PS, I won't be cancelling my sub when I get all my stuff on my main, I have 3 characters and about to start a 4th, my guild raids, pvps, and does things together.. I have high hopes of a land control pvp system (you know "real pvp" not this minigame nonsense) being added in the future. I have tons of friends playing as well as opposing faction adversaries who are all old farts like me and have been gaming together for about 10 - 11 years from Anarchy-Online (I'm 33), who are just joining the game still.. No I'll be here for the long haul, which is why I want the progression system fixed.

 

Furthermore, once again you fall back on your lame "Quit" angle to your argument which I've already pointed out is both bad to suggest another player do for any reason and not likely to be the case for me despite.

 

Let's examine your stance vs my stance one more time. You will forever be remembered if remembered at all as being the guy who said "accomplishing objectives is bad for progression, let's let afkers get full credit for just being there!". In stark contrast to my view that personal progression should be based on personal effort. I am quite pleased with my legacy. Are you?

 

I see you finally figured out how to give a thread 1 star. Congrats. I wondered how many pages it would take you to figure out that feature.

 

Let's see what the most recent post says about your marvelous plans for world afk troll domination?

 

 

"FFS, we have two people in the group standing still and we cant get rid of them"

 

"oh damn... I DCed right before the match ended and got 15min ban from the game. F'ck this game"

 

"Ok we are definitly going to loose. Im just going to AFK. Il make a sandwitch while the 15min pass".

 

three examples to why your idea is horrible

Shall I go back another page for more?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[Rheeling]

They should just make an "extra credit" pool essentially. Lower the amount of comms/valor you get for the warzone being completed win/lose, and give each player a daily pool of "extra" comms and valor.

 

Each time a player completes a warzone, they receive the "extra" rewards, which would boost the warzone gains back to about where they are now, and the extra is taken from their daily pool.

 

Each time a player leaves a warzone, they lose a portion of the bonus in the pool, and the loss increases exponentially (like the respec fee).

 

By making the deduction expnonential, we can allow the pool to be large enough for those who do a LOT of warzones each day to not feel penalized, yet actually penalize those who consistently leave.

 

The only problem that I currently see with this system is that there would have to be a way to distinguish actual "leavers" from those who got disconnected, bugged, or crashed. And I'm sure a bypass would be to just Alt+F4, and I don't know if there could be a way to counter-code that.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Rheeling

[Aethyrprime]

The only problem that I currently see with this system is that there would have to be a way to distinguish actual "leavers" with those who got disconnected, bugged, or crashed. And I'm sure a bypass would be to just Alt+F4, and I don't know if there could be a way to counter-code that.

 

I work in game design for a living btw. It is not possible to detect an illegitimate disconnect from a legitimate disconnect as I've pointed out before. I can easily unplug my Ethernet / wireless modem power plug or connection cable to simulate a disconnect without any fancy tools or what not. Alt-tab + kill process also is the same as a crash/disconnect. They all shows as "No more communication from the client" to a server.

 

It is an easily exploited system and ripe for abuse. I won't comment on the rest of what you posted because it's just horrible concept with a game that has as many bugs as this one does as it penalizes players who are genuinely not trying to leave a game much more than those who do.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[Rheeling]

I work in game design for a living btw. It is not possible to detect an illegitimate disconnect from a legitimate disconnect as I've pointed out before. I can easily unplug my Ethernet / wireless modem power plug or connection cable to simulate a disconnect without any fancy tools or what not. Alt-tab + kill process also is the same as a crash/disconnect. They all shows as "No more communication from the client" to a server.

 

It is an easily exploited system and ripe for abuse.

 

I kind of feared that. Well that's unfortunate.

[skyflash]

I know that feature, but I did not give you one star. That would be too much for this thread anway. Also, I wouldn't even waste my time. I am just writing here cause I am waiting for PvP to open.

 

And you are funny - in a sad way.

 

Anyway, I am fine.. I know my idea works, cause its being used by a lot of MMO games out there. And I know yours doesn't.. also, its not used anywhere, guess why.

 

So I win. Twice.

[Aethyrprime]

I kind of feared that. Well that's unfortunate.

 

It's one of the factors I've taken in to consideration before I posted the suggestion I did. I am tired of carrying afkers to victories or sticking around for a team that's farming medals rather than accomplishing objectives. Armed with the knowlege of how system designs work I proposed a system which encourages player participation in objectives and actively engaging in pvp like behavior to progress rather than a punishment system for no reason which just hurts the innocent guy who would never leave on purpose.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Trineda
removed inflammatory statement

[Hexxin]

This is prolly near the bottom of the list considering PvP is completly broken in almost every aspect. The real problem is they have been ignoring almost every issue brought to attention since launch, and they don't really seem to care or plan to do anything about it.

[BadNewzzz]

How about this punishment, for every person that leave BW have to fix an exploit or bug.

It is there the biggest problem is and it is there we should start fixing this game.

[Starbuckx]

Link gear to commendations instead of quest completion.

Allow commendations and valor to be generated during the game for kills or objectives and bonus applied at the end.

[skyflash]

So you invented that stuff about working for a game company, hu? Or why no names of games?

 

Anyway, yeah you are wrong.

I won't read you my posts again, maybe reading them twice will help you comprehend.

 

Ok as I am a nice guy you get a summary:

 

- First we are fixing all the PvP bugs like the AFK timer, matchmaking and equipment > skill

- Then we are going to punish you leavers with a nice penalty or disable leaving and thus turn you to AFKers.

- Then we gonna punish the AFKers the same way with progressive penalties.

- Last we will make sure you need wins AND objectives to get gear and slow down the rate for T3 so people unsub later.

- Fixed.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[Tyrias]

I actually quite like the ideas presented in the OP. The concept that if I try my best (regardless of the team I am saddled with) I am making progress towards my daily quest, coupled with the fact that progress towards your daily is actually helpful in winning war zones is a very good way to entice people to play more and grind less.

 

There are a few drawbacks, however. Firstly, class balance is... less than perfect. A DPS Sage, because of their crazy AoE skills, can rack up damage for the bonus very quickly compared to other classes with limited/no AoE. Also, AoE is a great way to prevent capping a strategic point, so that would also aid them in this.

 

Also, DPS specced players will have a harder time completeing their dailies, as Guarding/healing ball carriers, while healers can still participate in killing opposing team ball carriers. Also, DPS make pretty poor Ball carriers themselve, because of lack of survivability in many cases.

 

However, despite the minor flaws this is by far the most well thought out suggestion to cross the forums (that I've read, I could have missed some things) and is a vast improvement on what we have now.

[Smashbrother]

Stop trying to treat symptoms instead of the real problems! It's a really easy fix!

 

Examples:

 

Daily/weekly Warzone quests:

Complete x objectives in a warzone or be nearby a team mate when they accomplish the task such as capturing a point or scoring for your team.

(ie., prevent x objectives from being completed, carry ball across goal line, heal the ball carrier, protect the ball carrier, interrupt a bomb being planted, interrupt a site being captured, get a killing blow on a ball carrier, capture x objectives or assist someone who is.)

 

And Complete one of the following (BONUS?):

Deal x damage to other players in warzones.

or

Heal x amount to other players in warzones.

or

Stop x amount of damage from team mates with protection.

 

x == a number sufficiently high enough to warrent at least 3 games being played to accomplish the quest objectives.

 

{Edit}

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support the OP which is a "MERIT BASED PROGRESSION" and those against the OP who support the notion of a "PRESENCE BASED PROGRESSION". Do not be fooled by any attempts by these so called "Pro-penalty" people to convince you that some how merely being present in a round from start to finish is more deserving of rewards or rather shows more skill than a person who consistently aids their team by capturing objectives and performing adequately at their desired role for their advanced class in a warzone which by indirect or direct correlation should in fact be helping their team to win. These same people are likely the ones who wish to be carried by their team or are simply afking in corners and don't want to lose the ability to do so. They've provided no arguement to the contrary.

 

It's pretty black and white there. Either you support the notion of merit = reward or you support the notion of presence = reward. There is no other valid arguments which have been presented in the what 14 pages?

{/EDIT}

 

Make dailies/weeklies based on a combination of individual performance and goal accomplishing rather than relying on your team to not be clueless to score wins. I am fed up with carrying afkers and the clueless to victories while they sit in a corner. As it stands now, it is futile to stay with a team that you know will lose because your team mates don't know what PvP is all about who to attack or how to accomplish objectives, especially after you have collected all of your commentations BM gear ONLY wins matter to get the rest.

 

Even requiring all of these would make my time spent doing dailies/weeklies worth it to not leave my team as my individual performance is almost always in the top 3 for each category depending on what class I am playing on. Usually I am #1 in what ever main role I'm trying to fill, damage on dps, healing on healer, protection on a tank, I am normally voted MVP no matter what class/spec I play because I am 100% goal focused and always doing all I can to help my side win.

 

Those who argue for penalties don't take in to consideration the fact (or are doing this perhaps) that you can easily afk and still get your 3 wins if you are lucky. Make dailies based off skill rather than luck!

 

Leave the commendations/valor bonuses for team performance as it is (win/loss) and remove the ridiculous requirement to win a warzone match to accomplish a daily/weekly quest.

 

Another poster suggested:

 

Another solution would be to just change the daily mechanics though to include an option for playing x number of games total OR 3 wins. (However this is kind of a welfare solution, which I'm not that keen on.. but it would be better than what we have now)

 

PS. Those of you who are not leavers should ask a person who does leave since they themselves are not leaving they probably don't understand the psychology of someone who does:

 

1. Why do people leave warzones?

 

For extra credit you can try this one on for size too:

 

2. Why do people care about winning or losing when the difference in terms of valor/commendations/xp/money is hardly noticeable between a win and a loss?

 

 

 

 

1. Because they need x wins to complete their daily/weekly

2. Because they need x wins to complete their daily/weekly

 

 

 

Even if you make dailies based on objectives and not winning, people will still leave if their side is losing. Why? Because the losing team will not accomplish as much objectives as the winning team. People will still leave early in the game if their side starts to lose, in the hopes of getting into a game where they will win.

[Tyrias]

- Then we gonna punish the AFKers the same way with progressive penalties.

 

What happens when people who would leave, but now can't, and then would afk, but now can't instead do the bare mininum to stay in the match and not get penalised. They might fight a little bit. Or "guard" ledges and chokepoints.

 

How do you decide whether a person is bad at playing, or just deliberately under-performing?

 

Unless there is some magical way to determine these things, you will never be able to implement systems that "punish" the people that you zealously feel require punishment, without punishing people who don't deserve it.

[dartanisc]

People with tons of damage and heal are usually not the valuable players in the BG.

 

Fpr example, if you do the right thing in Hut, you wil never ever end up with much damage / heal and almost without medals.

 

If you perform well, you help bring the ball to the goal line, defend the ball carrier, decurse him and heal him.

 

IF I see someone with 300000 damage, I know he sucks ***, cause he must have been zerging.

 

Not true. As a sniper I get 7 medals constantly. This is because I understand my role. Which is, in this particular game mode to provide cover by killing those that attempt to hinder and or kill my teams ball carrier. In terms of offense, it is to kill the enemy ball carrier and or his healers/support. Doing these things results in dealing ALOT of dmg.

[skyflash]

How do you decide whether a person is bad at playing, or just deliberately under-performing?

Unless there is some magical way to determine these things, you will never be able to implement systems that "punish" the people that you zealously feel require punishment, without punishing people who don't deserve it.

 

Standard issue AFK voting, like in all the other games out there.

 

Also, you should realize that there will always be false positives, collateral damage is to be expected and accepted.

 

Last, we do not need to fix ALL leaving and AFKing, we only need to fix the permanent group jumping that takes place right now and the behaviour of certain people. There will always be botter and AFK leecher, and while with AFK voting you can catch most of them, some will use 3rd party software, and those will only be caught by gamemasters, like other cheaters.

 

I would also mix in different other AFK detection mechanisms like behaviour detection, but they are just icing on the cake.

 

Players that leave a group one time cause they hate it are not inherently bad for the game, leaving a group 10 times in a row and joining a new group and leaving again is very bad, however. Thats what needs fixing.

 

The OP changes will not fix anything, it will only make the equipment easier to get, and then when everyone has his T3 equipment the same leaving problems start again.

 

One question for the OP:

 

What is the incentive to stay in a losing group after you have full T3 and dont need valor, comms and daily quests anymore?

 

Hope you see the failure of your logic, but I dont count on it, really.

[skyflash]

In terms of offense, it is to kill the enemy ball carrier and or his healers/support. Doing these things results in dealing ALOT of dmg.

 

No it won't.

 

ALOT of damage is gained by doing AOE damage the whole game, not by running while damaging, especially not with a sniper that needs to stay stationary.

 

Try staying in the middle, somewhere on top and shoot people the whole game without looking at the ball carrier. You will do a lot more damage, especially with zerging enemies.

[skyflash]

You forgot to answer my question:

 

What is the incentive to stay in a losing group after you have full T3 and dont need valor, comms and daily quests anymore?