How to stop leavers in warzones without a stupid penalty

[skyflash]

I am for penalties for leaving wz's(but think it should penalize chronic desterers). But on point i definitely agree with OP to make the dailies based on objectives and indiviual performance flexible to your role. It would incentize better play all round not only by emphasizing the very things that win wz's but on an individual level learning how to use your player role to maximum benefit to your team.

 

The only people that think it's a good idea to not motivate people to win a game by demanding it in the daily quest are the people that only require T3 bags and need to win games for it.

 

And these players are the really bad players... they have the problem that the medals they get for losing are worthless for them, and as they lose most matches (we arent talking about the good PvPers here) they do not get anything most of the time except a timeloss.

 

So what these players are trying to do here is making it very easy for them to get better gear by zerging in Warzones.

 

The OP is a player that does not care about winning warzones, or even about other players, at all, he only wants the easiest way to get his T3 gear, and that is of course by ignoring the game and zerging for max damage and max heal.

 

And now he wants to be rewarded for zerging, too. As if his playstyle wouldn't be bad enough.

 

Luckily Bioware was smart enough to base the daily quests on winning games, so these people are sorted out.

 

Thanks Bioware!

 

And to really FIX the PvP rewards, we only really have the two options stated here over and over again:

 

1. A debuff that restricts reentry so people cant join another BG for X minutes

 

or

 

2. Make BGs stick to the player, so that as long as the BG is running, people can not join a different BG (this also fixes the issue of D/C and you cant get back into your BG that was almost won)

 

Two options, really... Bioware needs to make a pick.

 

And dont worry, Bioware will never ever remove the win condition from the dailys and give in to the wanna-be-T3 crybabies.

Edited February 11, 2012 by skyflash

[Scalare]

no really, the real problem is randoms getting queued with premades.

 

qft..

Edited February 11, 2012 by Scalare

[Briljin]

or make people who leave get a deserter debuff like in wow. People may not like some of wow's solutions to problems but there is a reason they are #1 in mmo's.

 

That would only work if you bring in the rest of the system. A strong anti AFK policy, a vote kick, the ability to queue only for new games and the ability to rejoin an on going WZ if you DC or crash.

[skyflash]

That would only work if you bring in the rest of the system. A strong anti AFK policy, a vote kick, the ability to queue only for new games and the ability to rejoin an on going WZ if you DC or crash.

 

Yes, but this will have to be fixed anyway, so I have good hopes.

[Jaib]

pvp participation should be incentivised rather than creating a state of punishment for non-participation. Both have the same results but one will allow you to get the carrot (win or lose), where the other will cause frustration. As we're already in a state of frustration from poor team play I'd prefer to see things take a turn for the better rather than worse.

 

If you think queues are bad now, wait till regular pvp'ers are in a holding 'time out' status and add that time to your existing queue. People will not stay when there is nothing to gain and if we look at the comparison (valor and 30 comms vs daily completion, more valor and 100 comms) it is easy in the current warzone game state to see the benifit of dropping from a terrible team.

 

I'm in agreement with the OP, incentives will keep people in the game far better than punishment, it also neatly gets around the problem of people AFK/leeching as it promotes participation so well.

[Caranel]

I posted on another thread:

 

For some people, like myself, I really dont like Huttball, but I love the 2 other instances: the 3-cannon defend and the Ship seige/defend.

The problem is you cannot queue for a specific instance -- its very random. And once you load, its the only time you can exit that instance. I only leave huttball. For the other 2, I stay whether I am at the very beginning of the instance or at the very end, winning or losing.

 

I just really dont like Huttball. And I dont want to stay and waste my limited online time playing something I dont like.

 

If there will be a way to queue for a specific PVP instance, it may help cases like mine

[Jimdor]

I can agree that having people leave your Warzone is annoying. The worst is when they queue back up, and end up back in your Warzone only to leave again.

 

BUT, before they start throwing deserter debuffs around, they need to fix a few things.

 

First: Speeder Bikes in Alderaan not spawning. This happens all the time to me. I've read it happening to other people. I can't tell you how many warzones i've been kicked out of while waiting for the bikes to spawn. I should not be given a deserter debuff for this. I'm trying to pvp, but due to a bug/glitch, i can't.

 

Second: The "AFK" debuff (leaving the safe zone) starts when my load screen starts. By the time my load screen is done, i have about 10 seconds to get out of the safe zone. Which sucks when you run up and hit the shield, and realize you're gonna get kicked out. The debuff shouldn't start until i actually load in.

 

otherwise, i'm all for a penalty for leaving a warzone. Just make sure the person leaving the warzone deserves it.

[Darthwilcu]

Until they fix the problem that has many players being removed from the wz before they can even get in this cannot be addressed.

 

As of right now you are kicked from wz's if you do not leave the protected area within 60 seconds.

 

Many of us are experiencing 50-60 second load times.....so by the time we start to have the ability to move, we are ejected to the fleet due to inactivity....giving us a penalty for deserting on top of that would have people rage quitting this game faster than you could believe.

[Aethyrprime]

pvp participation should be incentivised rather than creating a state of punishment for non-participation. Both have the same results but one will allow you to get the carrot (win or lose), where the other will cause frustration. As we're already in a state of frustration from poor team play I'd prefer to see things take a turn for the better rather than worse.

 

If you think queues are bad now, wait till regular pvp'ers are in a holding 'time out' status and add that time to your existing queue. People will not stay when there is nothing to gain and if we look at the comparison (valor and 30 comms vs daily completion, more valor and 100 comms) it is easy in the current warzone game state to see the benifit of dropping from a terrible team.

 

I'm in agreement with the OP, incentives will keep people in the game far better than punishment, it also neatly gets around the problem of people AFK/leeching as it promotes participation so well.

 

Exactly. Many people who support the penalty concept don't understand pvp and probably are so terrible at it that they deal with leavers on a regular basis. If they had any skill at pvp their team mates wouldn't abandon them. I know teams I stay on don't abandon me. I don't have any issue with leavers because I don't experience the same problems as them.

 

Skill overrides the need to leave. I would not be surprised to learn that most of the people who support the penalty method are the very same people that any real pvper would facepalm if ever teamed with.

[maradigamer]

I've been leaving because my team won't try, leaving me and maybe one or two others to get slaughtered whenever we get near an objective. It was so frustrating that leaving was the kindest thing to do. The less kind option was telling my team exactly what I thought of them.

 

But now I realize that no matter how the games seem to be designed, team deathmatch is what really gets rewarded. I consistently get more medals for far less effort in losing games when I just give up and go farm kills. I don't like it, it goes against my competitive nature, but hell, why fight it? It's how the system was clearly designed, at least in the 10-49 bracket. Winning has less worth than a good, long farming session.

 

Of course, if I'm the one getting farmed, why feel any obligation to stay in the match? No one cares about winning, so why should I care about the other side and their precious medals?

[cdstephen]

The only people who wouldn't want more rewards and incentives for being in a PvP match are those who are so bad that they wouldn't be able to complete them.

[McFribble]

Exactly. Many people who support the penalty concept don't understand pvp and probably are so terrible at it that they deal with leavers on a regular basis. If they had any skill at pvp their team mates wouldn't abandon them. I know teams I stay on don't abandon me. I don't have any issue with leavers because I don't experience the same problems as them.

 

Skill overrides the need to leave. I would not be surprised to learn that most of the people who support the penalty method are the very same people that any real pvper would facepalm if ever teamed with.

 

Replace the word "skill" with "gear" in your post, and you would be correct (since 80% of the game is based around gear). It seems the people who leave in WZ's are just looking for a quick win to get on with their day. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. If you're looking for a quick win, form a group and ROFLstomp the other team. If you can't form a group, suffer like the rest of us with pugs. If you don't have the time in the day to finish your dailies with 3 characters, either focus on one character or stop playing MMO's (they are SUPPOSED to be time shanks).

 

The worst thing about MMO communities are the few loud people who feel they are entitled to win every single thing they set foot in, and can't stand it when things don't work in their personal favor. From my experience, these kind of people are the ones who generally leave WZ's when the other team starts winning. Can't stand having to win a TEAM GAME with TEAM EFFORT, then maybe you should try out to Call of Duty.

 

I would love to see a WZ timer implemented to quitters, so long as Bioware fixed most of the bugs that have been brought up already.

 

(Waits to be called "stupid" and how I apparently have no "reading comprehension" for not agreeing.)

[ducksmyth]

They need to fix the warzones so that a comeback is possible.

 

If you lose side turrets you'll never get them back.

If they blow up one door in Voidstar the games over.

 

Huttball is 90% class composition that determines victory. Some classes are just garbage in that map. It has the same problem that WoW does with WSG.

The only thing keeping it going is that sorcs are everywhere so generally you dont get teams with no good huttball classes. Imagine the hell it would be to get an all sniper team.

 

Only huttball has the possiblility of turning a set back into victory. The others require the other side to screw up massively to lose.

DOTs, travel distance and respawn times are just not tuned right for 2 out of 3 of the maps.

 

Till then ill continue to port out.

Edited February 11, 2012 by ducksmyth

[Aethyrprime]

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support the OP which is a "MERIT BASED PROGRESSION" and those against the OP who support the notion of a "PRESENCE BASED PROGRESSION". Do not be fooled by any attempts by these so called "Pro-penalty" people to convince you that some how merely being present in a round from start to finish is more deserving of rewards or rather shows more skill than a person who consistently aids their team by capturing objectives and performing adequately at their desired role for their advanced class in a warzone which by indirect or direct correlation should in fact help their team to win. These same people are likely the ones who wish to be carried by their team or are simply afking in corners and don't want to lose the ability to do so. They've provided no arguement to the contrary.

 

It's pretty black and white there. Either you support the notion of merit = reward or you support the notion of presence = reward. There is no other valid arguments which have been presented in the last what 14 pages?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[Aethyrprime]

The only people who wouldn't want more rewards and incentives for being in a PvP match are those who are so bad that they wouldn't be able to complete them.

 

Exactly!

[Apocalypse-]

It's pretty black and white there. Either you support the notion of merit = reward or you support the notion of presence = reward. There is no other valid arguments which have been presented in the last what 14 pages?

 

No, it's not black and white. Simply doing damage/healing other people doesn't mean you're helping your team. If you're chasing all over the match and do 500k damage but because you spent the whole time running around rather than focusing on the objective, you did very little real help for your team. Similarly, a healer that is just spam AoE healing to get the high healing numbers isn't really helping their team.

 

And if you change it to Objective score, you just have people run to the side nodes at Alderaan and sit there til the match ends.

 

If you actually paid any attention while getting your battlemaster, you'd know all of what I just said. Rewarding individual "merit" as you've defined it would only encourage people to go for the quest objectives, which could not be in-line with the warzone objectives due to design of the game.

 

Spectacular leaderboard stats =/= the full story. Now, it's fully possible for you to be the MVP on your team while still topping the boards, it's just significantly easier to top the boards while ignoring your team's needs.

[Aethyrprime]

Furthermore, gear progression is a personal journey, not a faction journey like land control world pvp. There is no bonus for your side to win. Just you. That is the exact opposite of how a personal form of progression should work.

 

It is also the reason you do not have quests in World of Warcraft, Anarchy Online, Warhammer, LoL or any other that I can think of where the gear acquisition is directly dependent on team performance.

 

You get gear from honor in WoW, which gets a boost from a victory but a good player will still get as much if not more even without a win than the side that wins. If you are going to use these other games as a baseline for why a penalty should exist you also have to take in to consideration how their progression system works. Again, you can't have it both ways. All factors must be considered or else the argument is moot.

 

I am for penalties for leaving wz's(but think it should penalize chronic desterers). But on point i definitely agree with OP to make the dailies based on objectives and indiviual performance flexible to your role. It would incentize better play all round not only by emphasizing the very things that win wz's but on an individual level learning how to use your player role to maximum benefit to your team.

 

Exactly, That's the beauty of it. There really would be almost no "problem" with leavers as there is today if my suggestion were put in place. Heck if they did what I am suggesting and fixed the disconnect/reconnect to the same warzone issue then by all means I would have nothing against a penalty for habitual leavers. Without those being addressed it is pointless however to penalize a person for leaving because it will make bitterness toward a flawed system become hatred which in turn will hurt Biowares bottom line as people get fed up with the progression system and leave.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[Apocalypse-]

You can't have it both ways. Either helping your team win is good or doing nothing to help your team win other than taking up a slot is good. It is black and white.

 

My suggestion is two fold, 1 part (the main part) is objective based capturing points, scoring or aiding someone who does counts toward your progression, with the added bonus of doing enough damage, healing and protecting during the matches for either a bonus reward or as part of the main quest. The very things you SHOULD be doing to help your team win.

 

Everything you said has no logical nor factual basis. You are defending your right to afk in the warzone and still get credit. There is no grey area here. Either you are supporting the afkers ability to get as much credit as the person who is scoring and capping, or you are not.

 

The very idea that a merit based system is easier to exploit or "Trade" than a win based one is also very naive. It is easier and faster to sit and do nothing to let the other side win than it is to get medals while accomplishing objectives to get the same credit. To attempt to argue otherwise is a fools errand.

 

I love how anyone who isn't kissing your feet is "defending their right to afk in a warzone". I'm halfway through rank 63 in full BM gear and I've AFK'd only once in a warzone the entire time and that was due to something I couldn't control. Also, "letting the other side win" doesn't accomplish anything in the current system. In your system, sitting at a node on Alderaan counts towards your daily completion... I see your system as being more afk-friendly... if sitting at the node out of combat at Alderaan DOESN'T count, and winning doesn't count, how do you keep people defending a node that isn't being attacked? So you're either encouraging AFKing or you're encouraging throwing the game, to attempt to argue otherwise is a fool's errand.

 

 

I constantly top the boards AND am the #1 objective oriented person on my team. The two contrary to popular belief are not diametrically opposed. They are parallel in most cases. Will there always be people who are off farming damage, heals, medals? Sure but they won't be completing their quests unless they are doing it within the vicinity of an objective and actually participating in the objectives themselves.

 

I also love how you skipped the entirety of the last paragraph of my post, but if you want to go there, I am typically highest damage in the match with highest objective on team, but typically those around me on both teams with high damage numbers are very low on objective score. There's a reason "chasing medals" is typically frowned upon, the easiest way to do it usually involves ignoring the objectives. However, with an organized team in Huttball, my damage numbers (and by extension healing as a Sentinel) are rather pathetic because I'm doing nothing but ball running.

 

Your system encourages individual performance OVER team performance, and that is absolutely terrible for MMO PvP. At the end of the game, whether your team won or lost is the final measure of how your team performed (except for ties in Voidstar... wth is with that...), so that's what needs to count towards progression.

 

Want to stop leavers? Put in a lockout timer, or put in a failure condition to the quests. Don't turn PvP into a epeen leaderboard zerg.

[Valkyyri]

That is BW's fault for making TOR pvp nothing but a 15 min at a time minigame.

 

Now that you mentioned this i would like to see time limit removal from Huttball atleast, just make it so only way to end it is to make those 6 goals and it would work because there is already anti-turtling mechanism so no endless fragging form facerolll team if that happens.

[Valkyyri]

What they could do is make medals based off each warzones objectives. So winning for the missions AND farming medals are the same goal.

 

Totally agree. I still dont understand why defusing or planting bomb doesnt even give objective points? Planted all 3 doors and got 0 points in the end seriously is that intended?

 

And in Huttball catching and throwing should give atleast small amout of objective points as it seems it doesnt give anything from those atm.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Valkyyri

[Aethyrprime]

stuff.

 

You can "claim" what ever you want it doesn't matter. As it is being afk in a corner is easier than "afking at a node" as you would probably die near a "hot spot". You can fight tooth and nail and be in denial as much as you want about defending the right to afk in a warzone but you are easily called out as supporting a welfare, no involvement required form of progression vs a merit based one. There is absolutely no footing you can gain by defending afkers as a logic behind needing a penalty for leaeving. I am doing exactly the opposite as you. I support effort vs attendance and progression based on it.

 

It really is that simple no matter how far you stick your head in the sand not one word will change that fact. You support afk progression. I don't. This hurts your feelings some how as evidenced in the venom you spew with your spin on words. I'm not hurt either way as I made this thread directly in opposition of people like you who make people like me leave games because they lack the skill to operate as a team.

 

Thanks for the support btw, I do adore you for the daily bumps!

 

 

Totally agree. I still dont understand why defusing or planting bomb doesnt even give objective points? Planted all 3 doors and got 0 points in the end seriously is that intended?

 

And in Huttball catching and throwing should give atleast small amout of objective points as it seems it doesnt give anything from those atm.

This is in it's own right a different discussion but one worth having. However, those posting in favor of penalties and against merit will simply try to claim that people would just sit around farming medals instead of trying to win.. Which is nonsense of course, I agree with you.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Aethyrprime

[MorgothQuick]

OP suggestion makes perfect sense, as a lot of players cannot complete their daily at present due to being farmed by set teams. Winning 3 WZ's should not be the daily in my opinion. Its too strict a criteria for a daily.

[rzrknight]

Just make leaving impossible.

 

If you log back in, you will be in the same BG until it ends.

 

If you AFK, you get nothing.

 

If you are AFK / offline when the BG ends you get a 15 mins ban from BGs (logged in time)

 

Players will not be queued into games that are running.

 

If the team runs out of people, they lose.

 

That way leavers have to either log in a twink or go AFK, neither will help their main to become better.

 

Mate , i saw so many ways to exploit these rules of yours , cant wait if they actually add this hehe.

[Aethyrprime]

OP suggestion makes perfect sense, as a lot of players cannot complete their daily at present due to being farmed by set teams. Winning 3 WZ's should not be the daily in my opinion. Its too strict a criteria for a daily.

 

Thanks.

[skyflash]

Mate , i saw so many ways to exploit these rules of yours , cant wait if they actually add this hehe.

 

Well you are right, but those points don't form the whole system, there are of course more details to a complete implementation. In fact, the system I stated there is very successfully used in live MMO games out there.

 

 

Bioware will do what is best for this game anyway, and creating PvP with "personal performance" as the main reason for rewarding is so dumb they won't even consider it. There is no way to have meaningful group PvP with players that have no incentive to work for the group, and anyone that ever designed and created a game knows it.

 

The OP is just a sad bunny, and the funny thing is, he will quit this game anyway after he got all his T3 gear, because he only plays for equipment. So WHY should Bioware freely hand the equipment to rank 60 players?

 

Any idiot can heal and damage over 300K in a game, I just need ONE key for it. Playing for the team and enduring a loss with the team needs to be encouraged, not zerging.

 

If Bioware is sane, they will implement a harsh penalty for leaving and AFKing, and if its only to make it much harder to obtain the T3 gear through winning games.

 

Because.... they will lose the subs of the PvPers that have all their gear and only play for equipment and not because they like PvP, because THERE IS NO INCENTIVE TO STAY SUBBED after complete T3 and rank 60.

 

Here is a neat little idea:

 

Only give out TWO bags for the current weekly, and two bags for a new weekly quest:

 

"Lose 15 warzone games without leaving a single match in between."

 

(of course winning will not make you fail, just leaving )

Edited February 12, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude