Militum Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Bioware would be remiss to not include player generated content as the game evolves. Patience padawans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Timeline: following the destruction of the Death Star in Episode IV: A New Hope, but before the beginning of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. (I know those movies and its story!) A timeline they didn't actually follow considering in that time line Jedi were rare if not almost hidden, yet you saw jedi running around in numbers more than in the movie. Tor's timeline shows Jedi/Sith in plain sight so it acually makes more sense to see Jedi/Sith than it ever did in SWG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 i would like to compare SW:TOR to a game, that has the same IP: Star Wars Galaxies - an Empire divided, and i hope i will come to a conclusion which results in the question: "Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, some better features and a bigger and free world?" I'm sorry friend. It seems that you've put some time into this, but really, who cares? I am playing this game. I am enjoying this game very, very much. I do not care about SWG, WoW, or anything else. I do not care to waste my time comparing, nit picking, living my life within anyone of them. In fact, I feel sorry for those that seem to have an inability to just enjoy playing a game for a game, but must nit pick and nit pick nonsense issues that are both a waste of time and mean nothing. Its a game. It is put out for my entertainment after a long day of challenges. It plays well, its fun, therefore I enjoy it. I do not care if Chubaka's hair is parted on the wrong side and does not match exactly with the movie. Its fun, and no random individual posting on the internet is going to change my opinion or play time. That's as honest and straight forward an opinion as I can give about these types of posts. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 A timeline they didn't actually follow considering in that time line Jedi were rare if not almost hidden, yet you saw jedi running around in numbers more than in the movie. Well there were no Jedi in SWG initally, but players wanted them so badly, that they put them in then repeatively make it easier to become one, eventually having a Jedi class from the off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 SW:G -- Player cities/houses - YES Decorate your ship/house space - YES /sleep, and watch your toon go to sleep - YES (How the eff is TOR the only MMO in history that doesnt have this??) Customize your toon's appearance - YES So, so, so lame that these basic SIMPLE things can't and won't be added to SWTOR. Like I stated, nit-picky, worthless nonsense issues that mean nothing in the scheme of things. I'm guessing that some of these people would refuse a free home because the doorbell button shines white instead of yellow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kufa Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Like I stated, nit-picky, worthless nonsense issues that mean nothing in the scheme of things. I'm guessing that some of these people would refuse a free home because the doorbell button shines white instead of yellow..... It's rather a case of your new house not having a door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choloe Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I played SWG for the full 8-years, so I can say that I have a good idea of what SWG is, was, and what TOR could have been. But, I will say that comparing these games is like complaining your apple does not taste like an orange! ITEM: Highest subscription numbers: 300.000 SOE never released subscription information, even to this day. So these numbers are irrelevant, and completely pulled out of the air by who knows who. It is only guestimated what their high/low was... ITEM: Not having met all the requirements of the fanbase, 2 years after release, the game was completely overhauled, the process took nearly 2 years. The result was NOT welcomed by the community. INCORRECT! The problem was SOE saw how much money WoW was making, and tried to make World of Star Wars, rather listening to the community, SOE and LucasArts hired an outside firm and conducted "Focus Groups" of MMO players that LucasArts admitted: A. Did not want to read so much, which is what SWG had a lot of. B. Did not want to figure out the profession/skill system because it was too confusing. C. Could not be a Jedi out of the box. So, they created the NGE... A system that when it was being tested - the ENTIRE COMMUNITY screamed to kill the project! That was ignored by SOE/LucasArts and the game suffered for it. ITEM: Planets: More than 10 planets... Big in size and free in travel. The big and free places were used to build houses and create [cities]. Not at launch. And although players could create housing, etc. The first cities did not start springing up until weeks after. Kashyyyk was added in "Rage of the Wookiees", Mustafar was added in "The Trials Of Obi-Wan" - And, it was not as fun as you would think running from the Nym's Starport on Lok, to our city in the lower western part of the map - but I loved that I could do it without seeing a stupid "Exhaustion Zone" and having no clue where the zone begins/ends! ITEM: Races: Bothans, Human, Rodians, Zabrak, Trandoshan, Mon Calamari, Twi´lek, Wookies,... The starting races: Bothan, Human, Mon Calamari, Rodian, Trandoshan, Twi'lek, Wookiee, Zabrak Added in "Jump to Lightspeed" Ithorian, Sullustan I will agree that the race selections are limited in TOR, but they are not that bad - however Wookiee, Bothan, and Ithorian should have been choices! ITEM(S): Single- and multi-passenger ground vehicles and starships Player-run virtual economy (99%) An extensive set of emotes, moods, and associated animations The ability for players to place bounties on opponents that participate in PVP Dynamic resource spawns on planets needed for complex crafting Using creatures as mounts This was said already, but most of the above was not in-game at launch, many of them were just prior to the NGE. But, again, I will agree that this game could have been served better with adding some, if not all of these features - but, I will defend BioWare and say that the game is new - I'll give them time to add more of the above... HOWEVER, the crafting system in TOR, although a pain in the butt at times, I feel is more balanced! Random resources caused massive problems and quality control issues for crafters; structures traders that created homes did not suffer from those flaws, but armor, weapons, medical and food (when it was worth playing those classes), and droid crafters suffered greatly on some servers. Sadly, I like knowing that my ENHANCEMENTS are the same as the next guy's, only my prices are better. ITEM: Timeline: No clue, whats that supposed to do with Star Wars 1-6 Nothing at all! We are 3,000+ before the events of the Rebellion Era. Again, reading is an amazing thing. Please take the time to read KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC or THE OLD REPUBLIC comics, or the books REVAN, or DECEIVED. I'm not trying to be insulting there, but if you are unaware of this games timeline, then taking the time to read about it would serve you well. ITEM: While TOR is called SW:TOR, it has nothing to do with Star Wars the way most (not all) know it. You are in the minority, here. This feels like Star Wars to me - and the ONLY reason I am playing this game is because it is STAR WARS! To keep this post constructive I will leave it now.... Edited February 10, 2012 by Choloe NGE Information added - lost train of thought. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxconway Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello, i would like to compare SW:TOR to a game, that has the same IP: Star Wars Galaxies - an Empire divided, and i hope i will come to a conclusion which results in the question: "Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, some better features and a bigger and free world?" Lets start with the facts: SWG was released 06/2003. 1 year before WoW. more than 8 years before SW:TOR SWG was sold 1million times. Highest subscription numbers: 300.000 Not having met all the requirements of the fanbase, 2 years after release, the game was completely overhauled, the process took nearly 2 years. The result was NOT welcomed by the community. SW:TOR was released 12/2012 8 years after WoW. more than 9 years after SW:G SWTOr was sold more than 1 million times. It has more than 1 million subscribers. Not having met 100% the requirements of the fanbase, complete overhaul is not realistic and wont help, see SW:G. SWG: Planets: More than 10 planets, such as Tatooine, Kashyyyk, Corellia, Dantooine, Yava IV, Naboo, ... Big in size and free in travel. The big and free places were used to build houses and create citys. Races: Bothans, Human, Rodians, Zabrak, Trandoshan, Mon Calamari, Twi´lek, Wookies,... Timeline: following the destruction of the Death Star in Episode IV: A New Hope, but before the beginning of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. (I know those movies and its story!) other features: Single- and multi-passenger ground vehicles and starships Player-run virtual economy (99%) An extensive set of emotes, moods, and associated animations The ability for players to place bounties on opponents that participate in PVP Dynamic resource spawns on planets needed for complex crafting Using creatures as mounts ground vehicles added what 9 months after launch? Creature mounts [and player cities] added what, 5months after launch? Starships added in expac 14 months after launch Player bounties added years later Timeline had no effect on the game, see the giant force user villiage on Dathomir with its magic wall and all the Jedi spawned from the hologrind/villiage grind. SWG was the worst MMO I ever played. I remember when everyone had a cowardly guerrek and SWG was called Pet Wars. I remember waiting for at the bus stop to travel around Dantooine, that was very star wars. Lets not forget the mind numbing grind of leveling your skills. [This only applies to the few people you didn't just bot there way through.] I remember the broken PvP, the buffs breaking what little PvE there was. Nothing like grouping up with a dozen people to get the Enraged Rancor missions to spawn so you could then go and solo your spawn points. SWG was a great game for people who wanted to Role Play. The character creation was robust for its time, and there wasn't an actual game to get in their way. People who enjoyed crafting rather than engaging in any form of combat also had a great game. If you wanted to play the sims in Star Wars, the home decoration was untouchable. But the combat professions were totally unbalanced and the combat gameplay was just junk. Add a group of devs that over "corrected" everything and tried to rebalance their game will still adding unfinished features and the first year was not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti_Bodies Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello, i would like to compare SW:TOR to a game, that has the same IP: Star Wars Galaxies - an Empire divided, and i hope i will come to a conclusion which results in the question: "Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, some better features and a bigger and free world?" 1. Your comparison is nothing new, and offers no insight. 2. SWG had more open worlds and more features - this is fact. They had 8 years post release to develope and work on it. I'm surprised you didn't say it had less bugs too. 3. The one point you could make is that it felt more Star Wars, which I understand, especially since the time period of SWTOR isn't nearly as memorable as SWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TokyoZeplin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 At the time it came out, and for several years into the future, SWG had some truly next-gen features, some of which have almost never been seen again. It certainly had it flaws - it was unpolished as heck, felt grindish, and much more. However, it was still a damned good game. Much of what SWG offered, is still what people are asking for in new MMO's today, some even calling it "next gen features". Bounties, player cities, player NPC's, player driven economy, open world, no levels, no "real" classes (or rather, you could pick and choose what you wanted to a great degree), a HUGE amount of emotes and animations, all these things are still being asked for today, and SWG had them 8 years ago. Still, did I enjoy the game? For a short time yes, and then it failed. Sadly, it was a game with amazing features, that just wasn't "complete/polished" enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Um... SWTOR has a HUGE amount of Star Wars feel to it. I never played SW-G, but I don't get where anyone could say that this doesn't feel like a Star Wars game. Virtually every component used is a Star Wars reference. Everything from the planets, the classes, the factions, the weapons.... I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's rather a case of your new house not having a door. So you would pass up a free quarter million dollar home for the price of a five hundred dollar door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 apples oranges theme park vs sandbox two different games two ideas, nothing to compare and who really cares, swg dead and gone, sandbox games are fun but do not apeal to the masses, if so wow would be a sandbox and every game after that would be a sandbox, dead horse here move along nothing to see.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackardin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Um... SWTOR has a HUGE amount of Star Wars feel to it. I never played SW-G, but I don't get where anyone could say that this doesn't feel like a Star Wars game. Virtually every component used is a Star Wars reference. Everything from the planets, the classes, the factions, the weapons.... I don't get it. You are clearly not bringing things down to the minute enough detail. I'll bet that you are one of those trouble makers that take a game at face value, enjoy it for the fun and entertainment it brings, and never spend any time nit picking it apart! Trouble maker! ;p ....and yeah, I don't get it either. I'm having a ball. My whole guild is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nytak Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I could be mistaken, but SWG went out of service a couple months ago... Kinda pointless to compare TOR to a game that you can't even play anymore. Just sayin.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riotus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well thats just like, your opinion, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choloe Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So you would pass up a free quarter million dollar home for the price of a five hundred dollar door? I would! Do you have any idea what the properity taxes in New York/New Jersey is on a $250k house! Almost $8k per year! And, a $250k home in NY/NJ would be somewhere I would be too close to an area where I would not feel safe for myself or my family - or, is in the middle of nowhere without electricity, sewage or anything else 'civilized'. (Yes, I'm over-exaggerating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello, i would like to compare SW:TOR to a game, that has the same IP: Star Wars Galaxies - an Empire divided, and i hope i will come to a conclusion which results in the question: "Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, some better features and a bigger and free world?" Lets start with the facts: SWG was released 06/2003. 1 year before WoW. more than 8 years before SW:TOR SWG was sold 1million times. Highest subscription numbers: 300.000 Not having met all the requirements of the fanbase, 2 years after release, the game was completely overhauled, the process took nearly 2 years. The result was NOT welcomed by the community. SW:TOR was released 12/2012 8 years after WoW. more than 9 years after SW:G SWTOr was sold more than 1 million times. It has more than 1 million subscribers. Not having met 100% the requirements of the fanbase, complete overhaul is not realistic and wont help, see SW:G. SWG: Planets: More than 10 planets, such as Tatooine, Kashyyyk, Corellia, Dantooine, Yava IV, Naboo, ... Big in size and free in travel. The big and free places were used to build houses and create citys. Races: Bothans, Human, Rodians, Zabrak, Trandoshan, Mon Calamari, Twi´lek, Wookies,... Timeline: following the destruction of the Death Star in Episode IV: A New Hope, but before the beginning of Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. (I know those movies and its story!) other features: Single- and multi-passenger ground vehicles and starships Player-run virtual economy (99%) An extensive set of emotes, moods, and associated animations The ability for players to place bounties on opponents that participate in PVP Dynamic resource spawns on planets needed for complex crafting Using creatures as mounts SWTOR: Planets: Hoth, Nar Shadda, Coruscant, Tatooine, Alderaan, etc Big in "Size" but not free in travel. The big and free places are not uesd to build stuff or create cities. Races: Humans, Twilek, Sith, Cyborg, Human 2, Human 3, Human 4 Timeline: No clue, whats that supposed to do with Star Wars 1-6 other features: Warzones full voice dialoges area looting companions STAR WARS FEELING While TOR is called SW:TOR, it has nothing to do with Star Wars the way most (not all) know it. Most people watched Episode 1-6, they didnt read any Novels, Books, Comics, Lores, etc. SW:TOR is supposed to play in a differen time, i get this. Yet it uses everything we know from 1-6: Bountyhunters that look like boba fett, Troopers that look like the Clones, Fake Droids that look like C3PO and alot more stuff. While they try to create their own game, they still used all the good features of star wars 1-6, just so people feel familiar with a few things atleast, and can say: "yo dude, i play star wars" instead of "yo dude, i play The old republic" This is just a small comparison of undeniable facts, as i dont want it turn into a fight about what is true and what not. So here is my question: Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, some better features and a bigger and free world? How can this be, when there already WAS a sucessfull Star wars MMorpg? (yes, 1 million sales / 300k subscribers as BIG SUCCESS, it would be today the same, if it wasnt for WoW to draw peoples attention to MMORPG) Was it easier 9 years ago for the DEVS of SW:G to create more and better races? Was it easier 9 years ago for the DEVS of SW:G to create better worlds with more choices? Was it easier 9 years ago for the DEVS of SW:G to create all those other features that are undeniably good? SWTOR has a lot of good features, this is undeniable too. But it could have been so much better and really "Star Wars", with just a little inspiration of Star Wars Galaxies and the possibility they had 9 years ago, but EA/Bioware obviously dont have in *********** 2011. Um dude the prequals are WAAAYYY AWAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufix Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hello, "Why had SW:G more Star Wars feeling, i'm happy i'm not alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esquire Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) SWG (NGE for the last 6 years) - Leveling was looked at as a necessary evil. The community basicly stated that the game began at 90. Had some very nice features at end game, even if it was repetitive. Gave some reasoning for going back and grinding things you had done before. (rare drops, heroics, even junk loot for 35s) Housing, citys, crafting, and deco 2nd to none. Only draw-back to housing was server loading times. Even on a T1 line, it took sometimes minutes to load my bunker with 1400 items in it. Best thing about SWG was player choice. Don't feel like PVP? PVE. Don't feel exactly like PVP, PVE, or just killing stuff tonight? Craft, player support, of just hang out and socialize. Vent/TS was needed in SWG and TOR leaves a little bit to be desired on that front. My vent server always has some1 in a movie that can not hear and asks the person talking to re-say the last message. However, vent in flashbacks is still as needed and used in TOR as in SWG. Choice in character creation and races were right up there with Cryptic who prides itself on options with the same (best thing, period, about STO) SWTOR - Leveling done via thempark extreemly well. (Altho with so many side quests it can get really busy and even confusing at times) Endgame, worry-some. If a game is so dependant on actual scripted content, can player retention be? Can developers keep up with the unsatiable demands for more and more content? Even in SWG, when devs would add content, such as this, players would be on the forums asking when is the next patch the same exact day that the new content came out. That's due to development that takes devs weeks to get out, some players will blow thru this in minutes. To be honest, I can see where some of this (SWG's sandbox) and some of that (TOR's themepark) would make a very well put together game. However knowing the limitations of SWG (such as the loading times for citys and housing in the main worlds and the citys taking up spawn spots expecialy for mission terms) maybe instanced housing/citys on a "sandbox" world at end game might surfice for all concerned. Something like AoC tried with it's player ran keeps/citys. (Several instances of the same world that the player would screen to). Deco items, also, never threw combat/PVP balance off but they were wanted even by players who didn't collect/deco as they could be sold for much credits. A way to put something new in a game for players that doesn't OP 1 prof or the other. For me, keep TOR's themepark the way it is, add some sandbox to the end game for player retention, and add a boat-load of content to TOR's crafting. Re-do the character creator in TOR for diversity and add a few wanted SW races for player toons and you would have the best of both worlds and ev1 keeps what they liked/like about SWG and TOR. Edited February 10, 2012 by Esquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm telling ya, it's like chocolate (SWG) and Peanut Butter (SWTOR) put them together and bam great MMO I just don't think Bioware understand what a sandbox MMO is, if you research back you'll find lots of quotes from Bioware Dev's saying how they put in some sandbox elements in the game, but I've yet to find any of them... Everything about this game is 100% theme park, even Illum with the big tanks and walkers that don't move yet shoot back and forth at each other but do no damage, it's like something you would see on a Universal Studios tour... It's mega theme park... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Leveling in favor of SWTOR, endgame in favor of SWG. Leveling in favor of SWTOR? I guess that is true if you to be controlled on what you can kill to earn xp and where you can get xp and who you can play with while you get the xp. Limiting areas in an MMO is a good thing? I just dont see how putting a number next to players names has any point except to seperate players from playing in an MMO. SWG leveling was so much better than SWTOR if you wanted to play with other people and thats what MMO's are about playing with other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulthaw Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Well I loved SWG, it gave me some of the best moments I've had playing online. It also gave me the worst ones, I only had 1 holocron to unlock and three professions to master when they changed the system (not the NGE, the "spend your points here in this stupid village" system). I loved the crafting and I definitely would love to see something similar here, but I know is not going to happen. Why? Because one of the SWG bases was that you "changed the wolrd"; a player city here, a moisture farm there. I think they should try to improve the system so is really useful and it becomes funnier. SW:TOR has a lot of things to do, but the base is solid enough to receive some good updates (player housing? Instanced buildings, kind of what you have in Puzzle Pirates) But, let's wait first until they finish the fixes... we'll worry about updates after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Oh ye gods, another SWG QQ post? *groan* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I played SWG. B) They started you fighting, like Wamprats, when really, you wanted to go off fighting Stormtroopers. I was killing rancors in my first hour of logging into the game. Yeah its so much better that as level 10 i can beat a jedi master isnt it. Much more realistic. Or how about level 50 grunts give you a harder fight than jedi masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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