Close Quarters Talent: Why The Hate?

[mrHaterade]

I see a lot of folks saying that Close Quarters is a waste of points, but I just don't get it. An interrupt that does decent damage and generates three rage. How can bringing that into melee range be considered a waste of points?

[Kibaken]

For PvE it's almost necessary so you don't have to run out on smaller hit-box bosses.

 

For PvP it's meh since they're going to be trying to kite you anyway, but putting one point in helps alleviate having close the gap more than you have to.

[Tumri]

I find it's fairly useful as a second interrupt in PvE. It's worthless as a Rage generator even talented(Do NOT use the 31/10/0 spec) so I sort of hate the talent outside of the interrupting though. If only we had something good to take instead..

[Blaaat]

It's worthless as a Rage generator even talented(Do NOT use the 31/10/0 spec) .

err not really? It's your second best rage generator ability? It's not reliable though you can't use it every boss fight as you have the safe the ability for the right moment (knockbacks)

[Hellion_X]

I find it's fairly useful as a second interrupt in PvE. It's worthless as a Rage generator even talented(Do NOT use the 31/10/0 spec) so I sort of hate the talent outside of the interrupting though. If only we had something good to take instead..

 

Lol??? Sarcasm or just ignorant? It is an amazing rage generator, especially talented. I can't afford the points for Enraged Charge otherwise I would. It has so much synergy with other talents in Annihilation tree that you would be crazy not to get it.

[Tumri]

It gives 4 rage talented yes. The problem is spamming 2x Assault is more efficient because of the difference in damage. You spend 2 rage to use Vicious Slash and the difference between that and Assault is about the same as the difference between Force Charge and Assault.

 

2x Assault = 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Force Charge

 

Except with Assault you get 2 extra rage left over in comparison to the VS+FC. I'm too tired/sleepy ATM to do the math out here but I posted about it on sithwarrior.com in the Annihilation compendium. Force Charge isn't worth using over additional Assaults in a sustained DPS fight.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Tumri

[Hellion_X]

It gives 4 rage talented yes. The problem is spamming 2x Assault is more efficient because of the difference in damage. You spend 2 rage to use Vicious Slash and the difference between that and Assault is about the same as the difference between Force Charge and Assault.

 

2x Assault = 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Force Charge

 

Except with Assault you get 2 extra rage left over in comparison to the VS+FC. I'm too lazy to do the math out here but I posted about it on sithwarrior.com in the Annihilation compendium. Force Charge isn't worth using over additional Assaults in a sustained DPS fight.

 

In PvE I would agree with you, but I'm strictly talking about PvP, probably should have mentioned that. Close Quarters is not that great in PvE, I really see no use in it for PvE purposes since trash is trash and all the boss fights that knock you back are greater than 10m. I personally only put 1 point in it since that is all you need.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Hellion_X

[Xerain]

For PvE it's almost necessary so you don't have to run out on smaller hit-box bosses.

 

For PvP it's meh since they're going to be trying to kite you anyway, but putting one point in helps alleviate having close the gap more than you have to.

 

it's meh for pvp? it's wonderful to generate points against any other pure melee class including assassins and it's another interrupt against op healers. also great against merc/commando healers for the samething.

[Blaaat]

It gives 4 rage talented yes. The problem is spamming 2x Assault is more efficient because of the difference in damage. You spend 2 rage to use Vicious Slash and the difference between that and Assault is about the same as the difference between Force Charge and Assault.

Except 2x assault takes 2 GCD (3s) while Force Charge only takes 1.5s.

 

And while 2x Assault = 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Force Charge maybe true damage wise but not rage wise not I find the comparison very limiting and you're also that ignoring Slash builds Fury and it has a chance to reset the CD of Rupture. Furthermore during a Charge I can immediately use Deadly Saber while with Assault it takes me twice as long to get to that point. Or if I have 1 rage I can use Charge followed by Annihilate and again with 2xAssault it takes me twice as long to get to that point... Until we get damage meter I truly wonder if using Charge is a DPS loss or basically not as efficient.

[EasymodeX]

Vicious Slash cost 3 rage, you sure you know your Marauder stuff?...

 

BEST POST OF THE WEEK RIGHT HERE.

 

YEAH!11

 

 

 

For the OP:

 

1/2 close quarters is essential for PvP. 2/2 is optional.

 

The talent is variable for PvE. I recommend 1/2 anyways.

[Hoseman]

For PvE it's almost necessary so you don't have to run out on smaller hit-box bosses.

 

For PvP it's meh since they're going to be trying to kite you anyway, but putting one point in helps alleviate having close the gap more than you have to.

 

So ive cleared everything, and i dont see where a boss's hitbox has been an issue for me...

[HBninjaX]

um, close quarters is an essential

 

it's an extra interrupt on command

 

if you want to actually kill a competent healer then you should consider picking it up

[atreyuz]

close quarters is essential in a PvP Anni spec.

 

But you need only 1/2 (2/2 is for people who dont want to run back a little, while the GCD is in effect)

Edited February 10, 2012 by atreyuz

[Tumri]

Except 2x assault takes 2 GCD (3s) while Force Charge only takes 1.5s.

 

And while 2x Assault = 1x Vicious Slash + 1x Force Charge maybe true damage wise but not rage wise not I find the comparison very limiting and you're also that ignoring Slash builds Fury and it has a chance to reset the CD of Rupture. Furthermore during a Charge I can immediately use Deadly Saber while with Assault it takes me twice as long to get to that point. Or if I have 1 rage I can use Charge followed by Annihilate and again with 2xAssault it takes me twice as long to get to that point... Until we get damage meter I truly wonder if using Charge is a DPS loss or basically not as efficient.

 

2x Assault: 4 rage

 

1x VS + 1x FC: 2 rage

 

 

The net result is still that 2x Assault averages out to around the same damage while giving 2 extra rage.

 

 

You could keep going and say...

 

2x Assault 1x VS: 2 rage

 

and ~equal damage to...

 

2x VS + 1x FC: 0 rage

 

 

Basically it's not worth using it as a rage builder in a PvE sustained DPS rotation.

[Ultratron]

I see a lot of folks saying that Close Quarters is a waste of points, but I just don't get it. An interrupt that does decent damage and generates three rage. How can bringing that into melee range be considered a waste of points?

 

 

For PvP having 2 points is a total waste because if you're using your 1 gap closer on a target that is in melee range, you're doing it wrong. 1 point is useful for people trying to deadzone you but 2 is just wrong.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ultratron

[mrHaterade]

For PvP having 2 points is a total waste because if you're using your 1 gap closer on a target that is in melee range, you're doing it wrong.

Howso? It's not just a gap closer, it's also a rage building, damage dealing interrupt.

 

I was Carnage for so long that I never got to get it, but I loved Obliterate when I dabbled in Rage. I've seen lots of posts calling it a waste of talent points, however, when I went Annihilation I just had to give it a shot since Obliterate kinda spoiled me. I actually find Close Quarters to be be better than Obliterate because of the additional interrupt and the fact that it has no minimum range limit. It's too bad Enraged Charged isn't a tier 2.

Edited February 10, 2012 by mrHaterade

[Ultratron]

Howso? It's not just a gap closer, it's also a rage building, damage dealing interrupt.

 

I was Carnage for so long that I never got to get it, but I loved Obliterate when I dabbled in Rage. I've seen lots of posts calling it a waste of talent points, however, when I went Annihilation I just had to give it a shot since Obliterate kinda spoiled me. I actually find Close Quarters to be be better than Obliterate because of the additional interrupt and the fact that it has no minimum range limit. It's too bad Enraged Charged isn't a tier 2.

 

 

 

Because, as stated prior in this thread, you generate more rage with assault so it's pointless to use it for that. If you use it at melee range (for some reason) you are going to get cc'ed and kited off.

 

The only reason what so ever to ever use a melee range charge is for an emergency interrupt, and even then it probably would not be worth losing your only gap closer.

 

Long story short, like I said before, if you're using charge in melee range for PvP, you're doing it wrong. 1 point is good enough.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ultratron

[EasymodeX]

You should be using charge to interrupt in PvP. Just make sure you time it right and that their knockbacks are down, or that your back is too a wall, etc. Or do it anyways, eat a KB, and Camo back for the next interrupt. Etc.

 

Key is that to interrupt in PvP, you should have sufficient time to get 5' range, since you have to wait on the GCD to use the charge anyways.

[HBninjaX]

like easymodeX said force camo is also a gap closer, provided you're not rooted from the KB. also anni specs get the luxury of having force leap on a shorter CD

[mrHaterade]

You should be using charge to interrupt in PvP. Just make sure you time it right and that their knockbacks are down, or that your back is too a wall, etc. Or do it anyways, eat a KB, and Camo back for the next interrupt. Etc.

 

Key is that to interrupt in PvP, you should have sufficient time to get 5' range, since you have to wait on the GCD to use the charge anyways.

I see the point of just spending one tp on it, but more often than not I find I have to be quick on my interrupts, either because I'm on the gcd like you say, or didn't notice someone was casting something with all the chaos. Add roots and snares to the mix and one doesn't always have time to walk backwards fifteen feet (it's 10-30 meter range on Force Charge minus 5 - 10 meters, not feet).

 

Anyway, at least I'm getting the full story now instead of just, "CQ is crap, dude, don't waste the points." Btw, in WoW wasn't the rage increasing talent for Charge tier 1? <hint/>

[Ultratron]

I see the point of just spending one tp on it, but more often than not I find I have to be quick on my interrupts, either because I'm on the gcd like you say, or didn't notice someone was casting something with all the chaos. Add roots and snares to the mix and one doesn't always have time to walk backwards fifteen feet (it's 10-30 meter range on Force Charge minus 5 - 10 meters, not feet).

 

Anyway, at least I'm getting the full story now instead of just, "CQ is crap, dude, don't waste the points." Btw, in WoW wasn't the rage increasing talent for Charge tier 1? <hint/>

 

 

Also remember that, unlike WoW interrupts aren't nearly as important in this game. In SWTOR interrupts don't lock out schools and besides a tracer spammer locking out a single ability for a brief period isn't going to stop anyone from doing what they are doing because they always have a backup ability.

 

The only situation I could see it being beneficial in PvP to waste your charge in melee range is if you just interrupted a healers first heal and he's charging up his big heal afterwards and if you interrupt that big heal you'll get a kill from it. That being said you can use that extra 1 talent point to lower the cd on your main interrupt + obfuscate, and Obfuscate is just too strong.

[Zoah]

LOL wow if people think this is a bad talent they must think subjugation is bad too. Ever wonder why you're having problems with healers?

[nonumbers]

Close Quarters is a requirement for PvP, if you PvP as a team player since one of the things you want to do first is take out healers, surprisingly healers heal and force charge is an interrupt... also healers have more then one heal and we only have 4 abilities that can break/interrupt a move but only 1 of them locks the move out (and only for 4 seconds). These interrupts are.

 

Force Charge, CD: 12 seconds, generates rage

Disruption, CD: 8 seconds (6 seconds with spec), locks the move for 4 seconds, costs 1 rage.

Intimidating Roar, CD: 1 minute, an AoE sleep for 6 seconds, costs 1 rage.

Force Choke, CD: 1 minute (50 seconds with spec), channeled stun/damage effect that generates 1 rage each damage tick.

 

In other words the only two interrupt we have with a small/useful CD for interrupting healers are Force Charge and Disruption. Fact is that Marauders can lock a healer down, we have to focus more on it and thus won't be performing as well damage wise as well as being more vulnerable ourselves for it but we can do it. We also have the benefit here that force charge generates rage, that is very useful since we can also place bloody saber on it to inflict poison damage too.

 

We also can do this in PvE, I've had to act as a disrupter on Sorno before since that guy has heals and is one part of an ops boss duo.

Edited February 10, 2012 by nonumbers

[Ultratron]

Ya.... use that melee range force charge to interrupt a healer with a brain... and then break your keyboard when he knocks you back and kites you for the next 12 seconds spamming instant casts on everyone.

 

Then complete the cycle by coming to the forums and QQing about how easily you are kited.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ultratron

[EasymodeX]

I see the point of just spending one tp on it, but more often than not ...

 

Yes, it's highly subjective. My original Anni spec (while leveling) had 1/2. When I spec'd into Anni later on, I ran 2/2 for quite some time. When I recently respec'd back to Annihilation, I returned to 1/2.

 

The consideration here is the "last N points in your Anni tree". There are a lot of optional talents -- the damage reduction on Camo which can be 1/2 or 2/2, Hemorrhage which used to be a 1/3 talent, is now a 2/3 or 3/3 talent. The snare on Rupture is recommended, but strictly optional.

 

If you can shave off 1 point from Close Quarters, you can toss that into Camo 1/2, or Defensive Roll, or Hemo 3/3, etc.