Ojas Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Modeling energy available, spent and regen rates prove that. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An2vm4yN6uebdEtvTlhTRlBMMVA4VC1wemg1NndSZGc Does not matter what you do with your rotation, +5 energy is negligible. Honestly, am I the only person who is actually noticing all the holes in operative development. No other class has a broken pvp gear piece. We have 4. Evasion = Broken Orbital Strike = Stupid skill pointless for pvp, doesn't make any good operatives rotation Infiltrate = Joke that no good operative wastes their time on. +5 Energy (X2) is a useless bonus stat that nobody would ever notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I agree with most of your points. I'm not with you on Orbital Strike. I think it's quite useful as an area-denial tool. I always use it on doors in Voidstar or the turrets in Civil War. If I pop a trinket, it also gives me the 2.5k damage medal. In fact, I would submit that our most useful set bonus may be the extra tic on Orbital Strike. I am focused on PvP, of course. I have no idea how useful it is in Ops. Edited February 10, 2012 by Oghier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinworms Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree with most of your points. I'm not with you on Orbital Strike. I think it's quite useful as an area-denial tool. I always use it on doors in Voidstar or the turrets in Civil War. If I pop a trinket, it also gives me the 2.5k damage medal. In fact, I would submit that our most useful set bonus may be the extra tic on Orbital Strike. I am focused on PvP, of course. I have no idea how useful it is in Ops. Yea Orb Strike is pretty good. Its no Death from Above, but it still has its uses. Though I think the +15% crit to backstab is better than 1 tick of orb strike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 I agree with most of your points. I'm not with you on Orbital Strike. I think it's quite useful as an area-denial tool. I always use it on doors in Voidstar or the turrets in Civil War. If I pop a trinket, it also gives me the 2.5k damage medal. In fact, I would submit that our most useful set bonus may be the extra tic on Orbital Strike. I am focused on PvP, of course. I have no idea how useful it is in Ops. +3 seconds is +1 tick which is +2k damage (if it crits) and the operative has full champ gear. That is if somebody happens to stick around that giant flashing aoe that is placed, the second the single extra blast hits. Realistically. Maybe +3 hits in a warzone if you consistently try to recast it whenever it is off cooldown. Breaks stealth and forces the operative to root himself. Not worth the effort of even bothering to cast it. Simply not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Yea Orb Strike is pretty good. Its no Death from Above, but it still has its uses. Though I think the +15% crit to backstab is better than 1 tick of orb strike... +15% crit to backstab? Pve gear. Agent: Enforcer's 2) Increases duration of Infiltrate or Smuggle by 5 seconds and evasion or dodge by 1 second 4) Increases max energy by 5 Field Medic's Suit 2) Increases healing done by Recuperative Nanotech or Kolto Cloud by 15% 4) Increase max energy by 5 Field Tech's 2) Increases the duration of Orbital Strike or XS Freightre Flyby by 3 seconds 4) Increase the range of Distraction and Takedown or Quickdraw by 5 meters BH: Combat Medic's 2) Increase the duration of Energy Shield or Reactive Shield by 3 seconds 4) Reduces the cooldown of Healing Scan or Advanced Medical Probe by 1.5 seconds and the cooldown of Emergency Scan or Bacta Infusion by 3 seconds. Combat Tech's 2) Increases the duration of Carbonize or Neural Surge by .5 seconds and reduces the cooldown of Determination or Tenacity by 15 seconds. 4) Increases the critical chance of Rocket Punch or Stockstrike by 15% Eliminator's 2) Reduces the cooldown of Jet Boost or Concussion Charge by 5 seconds 4) Increases the critical chance of Rail Shot or High Impact Bolt by 15% Supercommando's 2) Reduces the cooldown of Heat Blast and Jet Charge or Energy Blast and Storm by 1.5 seconds 4) Increases the damage dealt to players by 5% while you Guard another player Inquisitor Force-Master's 2) Reduces the cooldown of Crushing Darkness or Mind Crush by 1.5 seconds. Crushing Darkness or Mind Crush damage heal you for .5% of your max health 4) Increases range of Shock and Jolt or Project and Mind Snap by 5 meters Force-Mystic's 2) Reduces the lockout debuff duration of Static Barrier or Force Armor by 3 seconds. 4) Consumption or Noble Sacrifice restore 3% of max health over 6 seconds Stalker's 2) Increases the range of Force Slow and Jolt or Mind Snap by 5 meters 4) Increases Recklessness or Force Potency charges by 1 and reduces its cooldown by 15 seconds. Survivor's 2) Reduces cooldown of Spike or Spinning Kick by 10 seconds 4) Increases your damage dealt to players by 5% while you Guard another player. Warrior: Vindicator's 2) Intercede or Guardian Leap heals you for 8% of your total health 4) Increases all damage dealth by 10% for 5 seconds after using Force Charge or Force Leap War Leader's 2) Increase the duration of Force Choke or Force Stasis by 1 second 4) Increase your damage dealth to players by 5% while you Guard another player Weaponmaster's 2) Reduces the cooldown of Undyng Rage or Guarded by the Force by 15 seconds 4) Increases the range of Vicious Throw or Dispatch by 5 meters. In comparison. Our gear is pure trash. Edited February 10, 2012 by Ojas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oghier Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's not about the damage. It's about area-denial. Also, huge explosions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Breaks stealth and forces the operative to root himself. Not worth the effort of even bothering to cast it. Simply not worth it. Look on the bright side... If you drop it on someone waiting on the flame jets in Huttball, that's more utility than pretty much anything else you can do as an Operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoLager Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Orbital strike is worthless. The only thing orbital strike is good for is stopping people from capping a point and tab target corrsive dart is better at doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Orbital strike is worthless. The only thing orbital strike is good for is stopping people from capping a point and tab target corrsive dart is better at doing that. Exactly. Has anybody looked at that sheet I put up... It accurately models energy usage and regen for 105 energy from the sets and 100 energy normal. essentially another useless skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skrill Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Orbital strike is worthless. The only thing orbital strike is good for is stopping people from capping a point and tab target corrsive dart is better at doing that. You can't use a finite word like worthless then point out its worth. Just sayin. Orbital strike has its uses and any good operative knows that there is a time and place where they absolutely love orbital. Edited February 10, 2012 by skrill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfolne Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Orbital Strike = Stupid skill pointless for pvp, doesn't make any good operatives rotation No good pvp player of any class has a fixed rotation. If you don't know how to use orbital strike effectively, your loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selais Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm medic spec but don't use RN so I didn't bother with the medic set when it came to Rakata stuff, I went for Enforcer. Did end up getting the set bonus for 4 pieces but since getting a few armorings I've dropped down to 2 set pieces since the 15% backstab crit chance is nice. I didn't notice any difference to how I play with 5 more energy. Guess you could argue it's something for nothing but I don't really ever get down to below 60% energy so 5 extra energy does not help .. So for min-maxing anyway, if you're looking at stats on armoring for individual items (say if prioritising endurance over cunning), you'll end up with none or only the two piece set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deverin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Welcome to PalaOp = Bioware's answer to WoW Paladin. They wanted to follow in Blizzard's footsteps class balance idiocies is a good way to start. WTG BW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerikin_Loukbel Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The set with orbital strike bonus is for snipers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonepanda Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The one thing orbital strike is good for is lagging out your tank >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TebsGenius Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 What's with the hate on Orbital Strike? I use it a bunch in PvP and it's awesome... I actually prefer it in some ways to Death from Above because for whatever reason people s*** their pants when they see it appearing. It's SO good for zoning out enemies during a fight and splitting them up with those that want to dive in on your team, and those that want to retreat. It's obviously awful if you're hoping to hit people directly with it, that only happens rarely, but you can completely control an area with this one ability in group fights. If you're not using it at all the you're really doing something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 What's with the hate on Orbital Strike? I use it a bunch in PvP and it's awesome... I actually prefer it in some ways to Death from Above because for whatever reason people s*** their pants when they see it appearing. It's SO good for zoning out enemies during a fight and splitting them up with those that want to dive in on your team, and those that want to retreat. It's obviously awful if you're hoping to hit people directly with it, that only happens rarely, but you can completely control an area with this one ability in group fights. If you're not using it at all the you're really doing something wrong. I prefer orbital strike for sniper, but yes, it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 +3 seconds is +1 tick which is +2k damage (if it crits) and the operative has full champ gear. That is if somebody happens to stick around that giant flashing aoe that is placed, the second the single extra blast hits. As others have already pointed out, it's not there for damage. It's an area denial tool. You point it out yourself in this statement: no one wants to stick around where that giant flashing AoE is placed. Death from Above does better damage, sure, but it's only around for a short period of time. By the time people realize it's there, it's already done. OS, on the other hand, will keep people off an objective for longer. Realistically. Maybe +3 hits in a warzone if you consistently try to recast it whenever it is off cooldown. You don't cast it every time it's off cooldown. You cast it when you need to cast it. Breaks stealth and forces the operative to root himself. You need to figure out when it is a good time to sacrifice yourself in order for your team to gain its objectives. If breaking stealth and rooting yourself by casting Orbital Strike means keeping the other guys from putting a bomb on the door, capping a point or heading up a ramp, then do it. People are so focused on their own survival or their damage/kill stats that they lose sight of the bigger picture. Die constructively. Not worth the effort of even bothering to cast it. Simply not worth it. Responses in quote in green italics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 No other class has a broken pvp gear piece. Not quite true. There have been big discussions about the itemization of tanking set pieces, particularly for PvP. All the tanking gear are itemized with Shield and Defense, which mitigate a pretty insignificant amount of PvP damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Not quite true. There have been big discussions about the itemization of tanking set pieces, particularly for PvP. All the tanking gear are itemized with Shield and Defense, which mitigate a pretty insignificant amount of PvP damage. The exact same amount that Accuracy would decrease, IE nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamchuck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 The exact same amount that Accuracy would decrease, IE nothing. In case I didn't make it clear, I meant an insignificant portion for PvP damage from any and all classes. For operatives? Defense and Shields don't mitigate Tech or Force attacks and we start out with 100% Accuracy so any more is pointless. For snipers? They need the accuracy, plus, depending on their spec, Defense and Shields will mitigate their damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Orbital strike does have it's uses but in most part its not that great for PvP: everytime I drop one, everyone...enemies and allies alike scatter when they see the huge red circle appear. Since it has a delayed strike, it usually hits no one except for bads. Meanwhile almost all other AoEs are instant dmg on cast gaurenteeing at least one round of hits. As to our pvp set bonuses, you are right. We have the worst of the lot but that is no suprise; we are an after thought class that is the laughing stock of TOR. Judging by the myriad amounts of broken talents, weak heals, terrible itemization, and constant nerfs (surge now!) proves that no one at BW plays Agents nor cares. I think the three total responses we have gotten compared to the 70+ for sages and sorcs is proof enough if you discount everything else. Tired of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Most Operative PvP gear 2/4 and 4/4 are worthless. As a healing Op in Wzs, I dont even have the AOE hot spec'd. Going up the full healing tree doesnt make sense in pvp since KC does **** for heals and I lose out on going for improved debilitate and better stam regen. The pvp enforcer gear 2/4 is terrible as well. We are a burst damage class, give us something that helps us BURST. Not a button that is ranked third on my OH**** IM DYING list. 4/4 is pretty useless as well. This whole conversation on orbital strike is way off topic. The skill is useful sure, but it's a secondary skill used for specific instances. Conceal operatives are going to use 5-6 skills during a regular fight, and not OS. I would have liked to see one of these get a benefit. My wet dream would be some skill (not cloak) giving me a speed boost for 3-5 secs. Ultimately, it's a small but annoying problem that is indicative of the poor state of this class. Edited February 10, 2012 by Tadus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think the three total responses we have gotten compared to the 70+ for sages and sorcs is proof enough if you discount everything else. Tired of this. Is there a thread showing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) # dev posts/replies to inquisitor/counselor boards = 78 # dev posts/replies to warrior/knight boards = 43 # dev posts/replies to bh/trooper boards = 52 # dev posts/replies to agent/smuggler boards = 3 Enough said. Red headed step child class of TOR ftw! Edited February 10, 2012 by fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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