Malice_Nihilim Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So the ONE class in the game that could care less about crit dmg ( Sorc/Sage ) is now even stronger, as they have sick dmg without the need for a single crit above 2k as is.... accept it isn't a nerf if you actually read it instead of whine about it, so whatever. I think the kids needs to go to bed early, they are getting crabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimhand Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 bioware has nothing to do with baldurs gate. that was black isle. dont give them credit they dont deserve. James Ohlen was the lead developer on that game. And it was most certainly BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrosX Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) is it really a nerf? -- Crit Size % = 50 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( SurgeRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.11 ) ) ---Crit Chance % = 5 + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( PrimaryStat / max(Level,20) ) / 2.5 ) ) + 30 * ( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.3 ) )^( ( CritRating / max(Level,20) ) / 0.45 ) ) If they are bringing THIS coefficient more in line with the rest (at least that is what i understand from the patch notes) that is actually a buff, not a nerf. At least if i did math correctly. I didn't see any real numbers/formulas from the Devs, but from what I understand they are 1)making it so that you need more points of surge to get 1 point in crit size 2)adding diminishing returns Depending on how much surge it will take to get 1 point of crit size AND on what kind of diminishing returns we're talking about, this could be a minor/mid nerf that mostly affects those who stack surge past 80% (but I doubt it) or those who stack surge and use crit/surge relic, or it could be a massive nerf where, say, if right now with all the surge stuff you have your crit size is +30%, post patch (with the same gear) it will be say +15%. It would be a massive nerf for pure dps classes that normally stack crit and surge (then power). We won't just lose damage, we might have to re-mod all our gear. Edit: I was actually reading the patch notes again.. the first part is not clear to me Surge rating has been re-balanced. It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings Depending on how the other damage ratings work, compared to surge, it might be that surge will stack higher before cap if you stack surge mods post-patch, however the per point damage contribution has still been reduced by 10%, so I still don't see how this could actually be a boost. Edited February 10, 2012 by AndrosX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marinus_ Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Wow, this was a fun read Biowareftw. Let's tally it up here. +4 for the sheer volume of misinformation +1 for preaching it like you believe it (you would have to be oblivious to actually believe it) +1 for accusing others of things you are doing in the same thread +1 for persistence +1 for visual aids +1 for accusing people of things that you have no way of knowing about, then saying "check" after each one. Looks like a solid 9/10. I would recommend this troll to a friend. The one you missed was swearing. Could have used some more of it in a good troll. For extra credit, take some shots at me too! Edited February 10, 2012 by Marinus_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The benefit of alacrity isn't anything the same as the equivalent in another MMO game, I benefited from haste on my priest in WoW years ago but was easily out of mana often. I have a couple pieces of alacrity on my operative (enough to go from a 2.0 cast to a 1.9 cast) but I sure as hell wouldn't stack it though since the gain is too small, operatives need a lot of surge to actually do damage because their non-crit damage is laughable. I'm one of those that hopes sage/sorc hybrids gets fixed, every single sorc in my guild has been doing it, too bad I can't bear to level my sorc up, it's the most boring class to play atm. Edited February 10, 2012 by Sookster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) So the ONE class in the game that could care less about crit dmg ( Sorc/Sage ) is now even stronger, as they have sick dmg without the need for a single crit above 2k as is.... Oh no every buff or nerf seems to faovur the sorc?? how is this making the sorc stronger? they are crit dependent go make up some more ****. its going to hurt all the DPS classes the same. But keep peddling your sorc OP BS Edited February 10, 2012 by da_krall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bejita Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) are you high? sorcs force lightning does pitiful damage without surge criting, the talents in the madness tree add 10% crit and you have a 60% crit ability you can use on force lightning to make it do respectable damage, sorcs pretty much rely on surge crit for even half the damage of the other dps classes the class this doesnt hurt quite as much are the high consistent damage classes like merc, all they need to do is crit but not really crit that hard Edited February 10, 2012 by Bejita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livein Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So the ONE class in the game that could care less about crit dmg ( Sorc/Sage ) is now even stronger, as they have sick dmg without the need for a single crit above 2k as is.... I'm valor lvl 61 sorc (playing 0/13/28 and 0/15/26 with EB) and I STACK SURGE (88% multipier). Surge is far superior stat to alacrity (useless) and crit (not that good after soft cap - I'm around 32% now). And so most dps sorcs ends up stacking surge. The only better stats are WP and Endurance, because primary stats doesn't have DR. Bottom line dude, you have no idea bout playing sorcerer and just QQ cause you get owned few times. Surge nerf will hit alot classes, sorcs/sages included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Wonder what will happen to my Jugg.. Sitting at 111% surge right now, talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crummosh Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 There's really no correct way to combat the "Sorcs/Sages are fine" opinion.. Most that have a Sorc/Sage may be incapable of viewing the class from a third party perspective. Those that don't have a Sorc/Sage may not understand that OP doesn't mean godly. Sorcs/Sages aren't OP in one particular way. They do everything TOO well. They have too much utility, too much damage potential, too much support.. They don't need to be hammered, they need be toned down.. Either everything needs to be toned down, or they need to take a moderate hit in a specific field. When ONE thing is too loud, you don't make everything else just as loud................... So the argument that everything else needs to be brought UP is moot. The argument that Sorcs/Sages are OP is moot. They aren't. But they are too much. Undeniably: Either Sorcs/Sages have something that causes 90% of the skilled player base to play them, or they require less skill to be decent at. Either way it makes them too much. I welcome arguments, they're healthy. Flaming/Whining/Insulting simply conveys your desperation. Kind of like how half of the republic players think they're underpowered..... 90% of the problems on republic side are opinions: 1) A ship isn't as cool looking 2) A story isn't as awesome 3) A planet isn't as fun 4) An animation isn't as leet 5) Gear doesn't look as amazing (ftr: I PERSONALLY prefer the way Assault Cannons look/animate..) Here is what they built that off of: Due to the physics in the game, certain abilities that have lobbing animations happen slower. Which reaches a target quicker, a mortar or a rocket? It's likely that this will be fixed, but this is also a very logical effect.... Players rarely ever stop to think that even though Mortars are slower, you're not flying in the air painting a target all over yourself...... Who likes to interrupt Death From Above? How many of those times did you not have the player using it targetted originally? There are other things similar to DFA/MS. There are also things that have disadvantaged on the Empire. Apparently players just don't see them... One prime example is Merc.. Who has ever seen/gotten the bug where you're firing/being fired upon forever..... Not only is the bug annoying and SEEMINGLY doesn't actually cause anything bad... but it does HAPPEN from something bad... The next time it happens to you either as the Merc or being fire upon by the Merc make sure to watch the Merc. There is also the case of the rather annoying Ravage Repeat.... If this is a shared bug, I haven't heard many republic player complain about it....... There's also the defensive animation taking priority... That may have FINALLY been fixed in one of these 'responsiveness' patches.... But it's pretty easy to miss the fact that you can't actually hit any abilities while the defend animation is playing... It takes priority, GCD or not. Last but not least: 68.3% of all statistics are wrong.. Just like that statistic.. In other words all of this data is an estimate.. All of this data is based off of what I have encountered, seen, heard, and talked about. All of it is subject to my personal bias. Forever yours, Zamm Killed by and Killer of Sorcs/Sages. I would trade all healing spell on a dps sorc for more burst but I bet people would complain anyway. The problem of this game and all mmo is the community not the game. People on forums just cry about what other classes have. Too me this game seems pretty balanced in pvp, at least more balanced than wow. With every class you have a fair chance 1 vs 1 and have some kind of utility in group. Sorcs/sages may have over the top utilty in group but they don't shine 1 vs 1. In wow you have some classes / specs that dominates 1 vs 1 and in group utility, for example, mages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowVamp Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 socs are not OP there are some that are well played though... don't let skilled players get you down grasshopper.... L2P daniel son because spamming force lightening with no cool down is skill haha, i have one too XD its lulzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajic Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I hate to tell you this but anyone not stacking haste/alacrity on any caster in any MMO? Is an idiot. The faster you cast your channel the more procs you get. Dots tick faster. Oh yeah...heals cast faster as well. Since they are the only hybrid that can offheal worth a damn? Yeah... You have no idea what your talking about and dots tick faster what? lol please reread the description of alacrity. As a sage crit/surge is better because full alacrity only increases your heal by .2 seconds while full surge /crit increases your heals by 2k+. So its .2 seconds time reduction for a 4k heal vs 6-7k heal with full surge crity. It might be different for other classes but its not for sages. ps. just read your other posts sorry for even responding didnt know u were trying to troll. Edited February 10, 2012 by trajic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowflab Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 It's a nerf to basically everyone, but the DPS Light-Armored Assassins/Shadows got the biggest nerf of it. I completely agree. After this weeks dark charge and induction nerf, its starting to feel a bit like overkill. I never really saw people complain about assassins/shadows as it was, now bw is just killing those ACs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekaula Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Wonder what will happen to my Jugg.. Sitting at 111% surge right now, talented. 110 force surge is still around 200 surge, which I think was a ways away from its original DR. Does anyone know if this already happened or not? Half the people talk like its already implemented and I dont see a change. Edited February 10, 2012 by unclekaula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JillAthena Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Surge increases crit of HEALS too. All classes and all specs are affected by this. You will not see a 10% reduction in your crit damage or heals, this does not seem too big of a deal. Looks like fights will be a bit longer is all. I bet in a week most people wont even care. People who are complaining are just big number queens who think that seeing a big number flash on their screen makes them good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The only issue I have with the surge change is that it, with the change to biochem and buff-stacking should have occured before any class rebalancing was done. These broken game elements were the reason underlying many aspects of people's PvP whining and certainly was tied directly to complaints about Smuggler/Agent hax. Great change to the game, just poor order of operations imo. Edited February 10, 2012 by SWImara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daex Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The only issue I have with the surge change is that it, with the change to biochem and buff-stacking should have occured before any class rebalancing was done. These broken game elements were the reason underlying many aspects of people's PvP whining and certainly was tied directly to complaints about Smuggler/Agent hax. Great change to the game, just poor order of operations imo. I disagree with respect. I think operatives/scoundrels can still rock people unless they are caught in stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidank Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 So a mod just closed my thread where I posted this, and redirected me here... so I guess I'll post it here to add a little bit of substance to this. So there are two main ways to see how badly a class will be effected by this surge nerf The biggest is if they have a lot of abilities that have an increased critical % from talents, and the second is how good their crit modifier is, as these modifiers (EX: 30% increased critical dmg on backblast) Don't DR with surge, and therefore make surge a better stat for you overall. So I'll list off a few of the abilities so you can see which popular pvp dps classes will be effected the most by the nerfs. Sorcerers: Hybrid: 10% crit for force lightning & lightning strike through disintegration Madness: The 10% from disintegration & 30% crit dmg bonus on death field & Dots Mercenaries: Gunnery: 30% crit dmg bonus on Unload & Heatseeker, 3-9% crit on everything Assassins: Deception: 50% dmg bonus on shock & discharge effects, 30% dmg bonus on maul, 3% crit on charge mastery Powertechs: Pyrotech: 30% dmg bonus on fiery stuff, 6% crit on everything 12% crit on fire attacks Operatives: Scrapper: 30% dmg bonus on backstab, hidden strike, & acid blade, 22% crit on backstab & hidden blade, 6% crit on everything Snipers: Blank for now, Would be awesome If a sniper told me how he/she is effected. Marauders: Annihilation: 21% crit on bleeds, 30% dmg bonus on bleeds, 100% crit on bleeds from w/e the marauder version of zen is, 6% crit on everything Juggernauts: Rage: 30% dmg bonus on all force attacks, 100% crit on smash after charging Please fill me in on anything I left out, because this is really just off of torhead and I could be ignoring a lot of sutff, or any specs that I left out (Generally because I don't see them that often) and I'll update this. But just from what I've seen, this surge nerf seems like it's hardly going to effect sorcerers, especially hybrid sorcerers, while having a pretty major effect on both types of sith warriors, and operatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfone Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Aidank thanks for posting this. If correct then what a joke. I have rerolled to a Sorc and its stupid ezmode. Shield/CC/Speed/Heal/Good dmg. If I am ever in trouble its so easy to cc and just run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 OP can't handle getting hit by a lighting attack that hits him for 500 per tick. The Q_Q graphics make him cry. He simply doesnt notice the 5k+ crits other classes do because of their lacklustre animations. Sounds about right, he's not complaining about Anni Marauders stacking DoT's on him that heal the attacker, then finishing it off with a big Crit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Edit: I was actually reading the patch notes again.. the first part is not clear to me Depending on how the other damage ratings work, compared to surge, it might be that surge will stack higher before cap if you stack surge mods post-patch, however the per point damage contribution has still been reduced by 10%, so I still don't see how this could actually be a boost. If the cap increase with the changes is 25% then a 10% reduction is still a 15% increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Aidank thanks for posting this. If correct then what a joke. I have rerolled to a Sorc and its stupid ezmode. Shield/CC/Speed/Heal/Good dmg. If I am ever in trouble its so easy to cc and just run away. Let us know when you get to the 50 bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalmeseReb Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 My understanding is they were just nerfing the actual stat surge. Not critical damage modifier. SO for example, my focus guardian gets 30% extra crit force damage multiplier. that 30% would remain added on, but they are going to nerf the ~20% base surge I get from my gear by 10%. So my final crit dmg multiplier would be 98% vs 100%... oooohhhh no! the skyyy is falling! Stack more power vs surge and it will even out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Hahaha I love all the crying about crazy impossible damage and how things are going to be before they even happen. GG OP you made me laugh. Edited February 12, 2012 by Kelticfury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvercgull Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Wrong ! BH's will gain from this only. Sorcs > Sages...so lets nerf both so republic has less players than an already devastatingly disparity in population balances. I hope they systematically focus on devastating nerfs with constant vigilance. AND... I hope they never fix snipers/gunslingers but let the class die off....OP anyway. I HOPE THEY NERF PULLS, FORCE SPEED, FORCE LEAPS and why not just in case healing also! I HOPE THEY NERF THE FLEET BASES...to big for no good reasons THEY NEED TO NERF......Sentinels...WAYYY OP flying under the radar. I hope they buff BM Gear toooooo weak I hope this game has %33 the population a year from now Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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