golfwang Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Indeed. And PvP with a purpose died in 2004 with the release of WoW. Minigames don't cut it. You can make them as creative as you like, but too many players either don't care about the objectives, don't want to bother or don't understand. the objectives People quit out of them if they are losing or not getting their way. Premades farm them with the end result no-one has any fun. Arenas are ok for a segement of the PvP crowd, but many don't like them. True PvP action is not minigames but realm vs realm PvP, open world PvP and Daoc-style non-instanced Battleground PvP, or better still a mix of all of these. The sooner more games get away from the "let's bolt on some PvP minigames to a PVE game" mentality, the more likely they are to retain players who like PvP. GW2 looks to be heading in the right direction, I just hope they stay on course. Oh and I'm mostly playing SWTOR for the PVE, but nevertheless I'd love to see Bioware implement a better PvP system here because I'd be much more likely to play the game long term once I've exhausted the PVE content. I think you're being way too melodramatic...pvp with a purpose didn't die with WoW. Like them or not, Arenas were a pretty pure form of competition. The system was imperfect but many players played for the sole purpose of competing with others. Don't believe me? Look at the tournament realms which were hugely popular and spawned a pvp base clamoring for it to be officially released properly alongside WoW. "True pvp." Is competition for it's own sake. That can take many forms. Edited February 9, 2012 by golfwang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awthtem Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Time to implement cross server battles for both WZs AND Ilum... there's just not enough follks to make it interesting on a regular basis. And what to do about population imbalance? Make Ilum instanced, where players are queued based on current popultation - its the only way to make it fair. Whether you are rep or imp doesn't matter - if you're severely outnumbered who in their right mind is going to just GIVE people valor/com's???? They need to find a way to make it balanced ALL THE TIME... otherwise, it's pointless. And I don't mean balance gear/ability, I mean #s of players. Going 10 vs 12 is one thing, going 10 vs 50 is a whole different ballpark, and that is usually the case. The forums are littered w/instances of this, usually in favor of Imps. It was bad before, not it's just pointless. I gotta jump on my alt now b/c there is literally nothing to do WORTHWHILE. Yea, I can go do some other quests, and maybe Heroics/HMs, but why ? What does my character gain from it ? I might get a little fun out of it, but we all know that's not what most folks are shooting for. They're there to make their character better by getting better gear. Luckily they fixed the whole 'random item' from bags thing - I applaud BW for that, but what good is it if the missions involved for getting those bags is boinked (minus WZs of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucioon Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am not here to hate on Bioware or SWTOR, its just that for the PVP community, every time there is a patch, something in PVP breaks. Bioware actually acknowledge this time that Ilum kills weren't updating, weren't giving Valor, wasn't doing what they intended. Every patch, just look at the notes, First it was the Ilum patch 1.1, then it was the Warzone wins not updating ( still doesn't update) , then Ilum becomes an slide show where lag was minimal becomes unstable after a small patch, then its the dreaded Kills not registering anymore ( supposedly fixed with the hotfix this morning) Not to mention all the current hacks and Exploits that is one Google search away from day one of launch to today still hasn't been fixed in PVP. Its not that the PVP player base are against Bioware and its game, its just that they are literally destroying its own game, killing its own PVP player bases. I know its a new game, but you really shouldn't destroy the only working portion of the PVP with every patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benets Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I guess they know what's wrong (or at least I HOPE they know what's wrong) but i think they do not know how to fix it or don't want. Some things not that hard. Resolve, crap, need to change it, reduce the cooldown of the abilities that free you from cc, or put diminish return. Ilum need to be all changed. I already did some threads about it. Meanwhile the game is how it is, i pratically stopped play it. Dont like to play pvp to get root all the time, and cc and slow. Need to be dynamic. See the posts here: Slow Resolve system Thread My Ilum Map Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Bioware has ONE chance to save PvP: Rated Warzones. If those are crap then all the Pure/Hardcore PvPers are done. I know that's the only reason I'm sticking around. Ilum changes would be nice, but let's face it, we've known from the start that it's a PoS and that World PvP in this game is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkiree Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Still here...playing until GW2 (or until I get hooked up with my beta invite )...or if anyone has a better suggestion than swtor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Still here...playing until GW2 (or until I get hooked up with my beta invite )...or if anyone has a better suggestion than swtor Nope, that's exactly what I'm doing there are pretty much no better options unless you want to go back to World of Failcraft ./hi5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkiree Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Nope, that's exactly what I'm doing there are pretty much no better options unless you want to go back to World of Failcraft ./hi5 Yea I haven't done WoW since 2007 (I think) It's funny....guildies and I were talking about this last night too... No where to go...but...SWTOR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Yea I haven't done WoW since 2007 (I think) It's funny....guildies and I were talking about this last night too... No where to go...but...SWTOR!!! Indeed. The lack of originality in MMOs atm is almost painful. Skyrim with multiplayer mods > all WoW clone MMOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulaufein Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Even if GW2 only gets its PvP half-right, it will still be the best PvP on the market - it is after all a PvP centric game and this premisse alone is a guarantee that no other MMO offers. Every single MMO will have a chunk of its PvP player base leaving for GW2. PvPers are kind off sick of being considered a minority when in fact, they are not. Its just convenient for devs to pass that message along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Even if GW2 only gets its PvP half-right, it will still be the best PvP on the market - it is after all a PvP centric game and this premisse alone is a guarantee that no other MMO offers. Every single MMO will have a chunk of its PvP player base leaving for GW2. PvPers are kind off sick of being considered a minority when in fact, they are not. Its just convenient for devs to pass that message along. Dunno if I would call it PvP centric, its PvE is amazing too, just not as talked about by PvPers. But it was definitely made with Hardcore PvPers in mind (FINALLY), unlike SWTOR, WoW or any other MMO after DAoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfwang Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Indeed. The lack of originality in MMOs atm is almost painful. Skyrim with multiplayer mods > all WoW clone MMOs Is that really happening? I don't know what it'd do with all my time if Skyrim actually got multiplayer mods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Is that really happening? I don't know what it'd do with all my time if Skyrim actually got multiplayer mods... They are indeed on the way afaik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 They have lost me! I am a avid PvP fan and was looking forward to some real PvP, even some e-sport (that they said they wanted to have...) but have been utterly dissappointed! I've gone from barely having the time/energy to sit through the hours and hours for the dailies to not even bothering with that any more. And since the latest Ilum failpatch I've seen a huge decline in PvP on my server. No one is on ilum and 50 queues are up to 15-20 min from about 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokai Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Yup, pretty much. For pvp ive decided to cave in to peer pressure & try TERA on release as i promised them if they tried swtor i'll follow. From what ive seen theres no factions thus no faction imbalance, higher skill cap. PVP already seems brighter. Edited February 9, 2012 by Kodokai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Is that really happening? I don't know what it'd do with all my time if Skyrim actually got multiplayer mods... Can't do much right now. Just log in and chat. But yeah, the possibilities... What I like the most is that Bethesda often takes the best mods from previous games and sticks them into the next game. If someone makes a working multiplayer mod, is there hope Bethesda might build it into their next game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hett Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Can't do much right now. Just log in and chat. But yeah, the possibilities... I've a TS server for my guild, so I don't even have to bother paying a subs to continue to chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuusouRumba Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 oh hi you wanna know something not so quick person? thats the Highest retention of any MMO out, um ever... ya it hurts when your made to look that moronic... Warhammer was gaining subs for its first three months of life, it wasn't losing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyree Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm talking about the people who, at cap, are playing a given MMO for the pvp content. Where are those people to begin with? Wouldn't they be off playing DOTA, League of Legends, WoW Arena or still playing DAoC? It didn't take more than a bit of cursory digging around the net to figure out the PvP in this game would not be what hardcore PvPers are looking for so why would they have ever started playing this game is the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Here is the truth about the PvP-base in this game: Has BioWare lost subscriptions from the "PvP-base"? Relatively few have quit, because no matter who you are, you have to agree that TOR is pretty well balanced (besides gear gap) and offers "better than the rest" PvP. Has BioWare lost the "PvP-base's" confidence? Absolutely. Expect a large drop in the PvP-base when other MMO's come out where they will try the PvP in them. Will they be gone for good? Only if the PvP in the other game they try is more enjoyable. Edited February 9, 2012 by Kryptorchid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokai Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Warhammer was gaining subs for its first three months of life, it wasn't losing them. Lol'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Here is the truth about the PvP-base in this game: Has BioWare lost subscriptions from the "PvP-base"? Relatively few have quit, because no matter who you are, you have to agree that TOR is pretty well balanced (besides gear gap) and offers "better than the rest" PvP. Has BioWare lost the "PvP-base's" confidence? Absolutely. Expect a large drop in the PvP-base when other MMO's come out where they will try the PvP in them. Will they be gone for good? Only is the PvP in the other game they try is more enjoyable. "better than the rest"? Have you played other MMOs? Other games have more than 3 generic WZs and have better PvP devs, not to mention better engines. This game is not, and never will be, friendly towards hardcore PvPers. It's filler until other games come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhands Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Bioware did not design the game for PvP. Maybe that will change in the future but it will probably be too little too late. Only having 2 factions is a serious flaw for good open world pvp and I don't see that changing any time soon. Those of us that decided to actually play the game haven't given up yet but we definitely are looking forward to GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nschlan Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Bioware did not design the game for PvP. Maybe that will change in the future but it will probably be too little too late. Only having 2 factions is a serious flaw for good open world pvp and I don't see that changing any time soon. Those of us that decided to actually play the game haven't given up yet but we definitely are looking forward to GW2. I agree it's not a PvP game but they did state that the Open World would be "amazing" and that there would be enough to interest the hardcore PvPers. At worst I expected decent PvP but what we got was a cluster****. And it's not like the endgame PvE is any good either, it's crap too. But oh well. GW2 is only a couple months away hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 A) The only reason this game ever had the "hardcore" PvP player base is that they're the flakiest player base on earth. Essentially trolling from game to game looking for the perfect MMO, never finding it and posting doom & gloom on the forums until moving on to another game. GW2 and Tera will be no different, most importantly because no matter how hardcore these guys are they aren't interested in PvP with Risk, what about Mortal Online? What about Darkfall? B) There are obviously a good number of people who enjoy PvP in this game, perhaps they do not fall into your definition, but perhaps your definition is too narrow. C) It is not that PvPers are a niche crowd, its that PvP players are an eclectic and hard to nail down crowd full of self-important folks who assume they speak for everyone. You might have had something useful to say if not followed immediately by the standard "game is going down in flames" nonsense. Look forward to c/ping your original post into the forums of every new MMO in the coming months and years. Particularly if you keep going to MMOs on release, the "this is release" argument is a valid one. Sorry but if you don't like it stick to games that have been out for years, they will be past the initial bumps and you'll only have monthly tweaks to your favorite class to ***** about on the PvP forums. Note: I love PvP, it is my main activity in this game. SWTOR's systems have flaws... every "Jesus 2.0 MMO" that comes out in the next few years is going to have flaws too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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