Has Bioware already lost the PvP base?

[NinjaScroll]

If you enjoy warzones and Ilum "for what it is", I'm not talking about you.

 

If you think "lol PvE > PvP", I'm not talking about you.

 

If you're an admittedly casual player who only "dabbles" in pvp, I'm not talking about you.

 

I'm talking about the people who, at cap, are playing a given MMO for the pvp content. I can't help but feel, after reading these forums and talking to people from various pvp guilds on my server that it's pretty much already a wash for PvP in this game.

 

The common sentiments from those conversations?

-A Loss of faith in the PvP team for issues ranging from clunky combat, Ilum being lame/buggy, gear RNG, etc...really, it's all been covered extensively on these forums before.

 

What I'm more concerned with is what will the repercussions of this arguably abysmal pvp development be going forward and is it "correctable"?

 

I think the most obvious answer is: competition releases before Gabe and his team are able to address the lion's share of problems with pvp and it's utter lack of content. I think we're looking at TERA and GW2 siphoning most, if not all of the pvp base away from ToR and a chunk from WoW.

 

There's no telling how large a drop in subs ToR will experience after these games release but I do believe it'll be very noticeable. People have been complaining about empty feeling servers and faction imbalance now...but just wait until ToR has new, legit competition. Some servers will be utter ghost towns. I think server mergers are imminent.

 

PvP forum activity will die down too, probably drastically. The people who so passionately cared about Star Wars and MMO pvp will probably be gone...because SWTOR can't live off it's IP forever. It needs to deliver something interesting and original...which brings me to my next point.

 

There is nothing innovative about ToR besides it's extensive V.O. and class stories. These all end at cap though, so ToR loses its greatest strength once players hit 50. After that it's pretty much a WoW clone done poorly.

 

I don't mean to sell the leveling experience short by any means, it's the best of any MMO I've played...but it's obvious too much time and money went into quests many players are just space baring through (besides class quests) and not enough of polished, well developed endgame content (both pvp and pve-wise).

 

Also, the game engine is kind of horrible. I doubt we'll ever see largscale, non lagfest pvp. It's gotten better but I doubt it'll improve by much. Very poor engine choice.

 

I already know the contraian arguments to a lot of my points.

"WoW released with far less at launch!"

"PvP is a mini-game in ToR!"

 

But those are easy to refute. ToR released late 2011, not 2004. The standards are higher and the MMO climate is very different. The second point is often presented by PvE players who could care less about PvP but let me assure you: That is not the official stance Gabe and his PvP are taking. If they were to publicly say that, they'd lose subs in droves. It may be so internally for whatever reason, but publicly pvp is as much as a priority as pve. I mean...not really. But they have to say that kind of stuff and consider that audience.

 

Personally speaking, I think too much of the design in ToR compromises any hope that PvP will seriously improve or that is was ever a serious consideration in development. Why?

 

-Three warzones at release compared to how many flashpoints, endgame ops and fully voiced class/sidequests.

 

-Design intentionally detrimental to world pvp. Factions are split horribly when they finally meet on Tatooine and only meet with any kind of regularity on Voss (in my experience). On top of that, flash points are located in each factions respective fleet instead of inside the game world(s), making empty planets feel that much emptier...I won't even take Ilum to task.

 

For the few dedicated PvPers I know still subscribed the March patch is make or break, do or die for their re-subscriptions. Unfortunately the only pvp content we know of is an unrevealed Warzone (I don't have any faith that it'll be awesome at this point).

 

Maybe Ranked WZs

Maybe another tier of gear.

Maybe a better gearing system.

Maybe a less crappy Ilum.

 

Compare all those maybes to the PvE content being released and...well yea.

 

I know the general argument: PvPers are a niche crowd and casual PvE players are where the $$ is at. I'm not denying that...but there is definitely a massive audience that enjoys pvp thanks in large part to World of Warcraft and the pvpers it's ranked arena system spawned. That base (and it's money) is ripe for the taking...but it feels like the PvP team has gone out of it's way to say:

 

"No PvPers, we really don't give a **** about your preferred play-style or making quality content for you."

 

Well...I get the feeling none of us will a problem moving on to GW2 or TERA when they release...but I'll always be a little disappointed at what coulda been, because at the end of the day I'm a huge Star Wars fan...and I know a lot of my fellow pvpers are too.

 

I just feel like the base has already been lost and sub hemorrhage is coming. Not to say this game won't be sucessful without the pvp base...it's just a shame it's looking like thats how things are going to play out.

 

TL;DR: ToR finna flop for pvp nerds.

 

yet another "I'm so hardcore mate" PvP QQ about SWTOR and how bad it is...

Really man, no one will miss you!

We're even willing to kiss your *** goodbye for you if that can help you **** faster.

[golfwang]

yet another "I'm so hardcore mate" PvP QQ about SWTOR and how bad it is...

Really man, no one will miss you!

We're even willing to kiss your *** goodbye for you if that can help you **** faster.

 

I think you missed the first few lines of my original post. It has nothing to do with hardcore and everything to do with endgame focus. Casual players who just pvp are pvpers, and are just as deserving of quality content and balance as hardcore pvpers and hardcorve pvers.

 

You do realize that by not engaging in open discussion and honest criticism of ToR you're only hurting it.

 

ToR is going to compete with Mists of Pandaria, Guild Wars 2 and TERA this year. If you (and other players) think servers are feeling empty now, just you wait.

Edited February 9, 2012 by golfwang

[Norsalith]

PvP with a purpose was born with DAoC in 2001, October, the same date it has been released.

I never played DAoC so comparing notes to it would have been moronic. I could have also brought up the PvP UO. Though it was there, in terms of "purpose" it was lacking. It was used mainly for RP and looting another player after a few hours of dragon hunting.

 

The point, however, was that the game everyone keeps wanting SWToR to be did not start out as flawless as everyone seems to have deluded themselves into thinking. On top of that the one feature everyone wanted (PvP) had no purpose in this "all mighty game" until half a year later and even then it was some time until Battlegrounds were implemented.

 

The only thing World of Warcraft had as an advantage was the fact that MMOs were still fairly limited. It was the same thing that enabled people to deal with the crap that annoyed them in EverQuest and Ultima Online. (Or, most of you have short attention spans.)

 

Each person who claims WoW's launch wasn't nearly this bad... you show your ignorance. If you cannot remember the loot lag, or 'emergency maintenance' which lasted days at a time there is an issue. And the problem persisted prior to launch during beta. So... Please tell me again how ToR's launch was horrible compared to World of Warcraft and how it is a bad game because after three months you complain that they will not give you both bug fixes and new content right now.

 

-Note-

"You" is generalized and not really intended towards any one person(s)

-End Note-

[MaxiO]

Lets get this strait.

 

 

PvP with a purpose was introduced in World of Warcraft on 2005-05-05.

World of Warcraft launched on 2004-11-23.

 

World's most successful MMO realises PVP is important, correctly focuses a lot of resources on it.

 

So 6 months -after- a game comes out (that is designed around faction A vs faction B) purposeful PvP comes into play. By purposeful, I mean you gained something other than a malicious giggle from killing someone.

 

This is a game, the primary 'purpose' is to provide entertainment. During the first 6 months of WoW world PvP was rife due to zones designed to bring players of both factions together. The enjoyment of PvP should not solely rely on the rewards gained from time spent.

 

Star Wars The Old Republic was launched on 2011-12-20 (sorry, pre-order perk doesn't count) and had a purposeful PvP system in place.

 

Replace 'purposeful' with 'lacklustre' and I'd agree with you.

 

Both started with bugs. One, even after 7 years, is still so unbalanced (PvP wise) that it isn't worth complaining about anymore.

 

Both started with bugs, but one has had a 7 year head-start. You're basically admitting that BW/EA have knowingly released a buggy game and are now charging their customers while dangling a carrot on a stick to the tune of 'it'll get better in the future, honest!'.

 

Any game (GW2 perhaps?) that comes out this year with a polished engine and a focus on PvP will roast TOR's chestnuts and consume them with glee.

 

Seems to me like most of you 'hard core' PvPers are just crying because you rushed to the top and now have nothing to do until fixes/additions come into play. (If coding this game were as easy as 1-2-3 I'm sure we'd have had many fixes/changes already. If you can do it faster/more effective then pray tell apply to work for them and prove it.)

 

Wait, you're telling me that customers weren't supposed to play the game? What you consider 'rushing' is the normal consumption rate for a vast number of MMO players. I'm sorry if your limited viewpoint can't accept that there are people out there who are different to yourself, but blaming the players for already clearing all content - PvP and PvE alike - is a pretty naive stance to take.

 

1. "Ranked PvP"

Only if disconnecting AND ditching a match for any reason counts against you big time. Ranked anything makes people crude at best and I'd rather not see the string of insults and scuttlebutt that plagued World of Warcraft battlegrounds and made it unpleasant. Not to mention something in place to deal with dead weight. (I've already run into fools who refused to help their team because they had guild mates on the other team.)

 

Until they fix the myriad number of bugs that cause you to unwillingly leave a WZ, any form of deserter punishment is simply unacceptable. Yes, it's annoying when people leave. But many are the times that a superior replacement joins the WZ and helps you turn things around.

 

2. New tiers

....The game has only been out for a short time. Development (good development) takes a little more time than that. Especially if you want them to be able to fix the problems you cry about. I've no idea what you think coding a game entitles, or why you think testing a code is capable of being flawless... but you should probably smack that thought out of your head right now.

 

And yet many of the complaints are aimed at things that are very simple to fix. The RNG loot system for PvP was clearly a mistake that created an unbalanced playing field which they're only just beginning to rectify. That they've retained the RNG system for BM bags is, frankly, baffling.

 

3. Dedicated PvPers

You know, if they would stop whining and /quiting... it would be more productive for the evolution of the PvP in SWToR. Instead of being vehement about particular problems (gathering data and reporting it consistently) they cry about it, threaten to leave, and then do so when the problem isn't fixed the next day.

 

How wrong you are. A significant number of serious PvPers are sitting on the fence, waiting to see what 1.2 will bring. They may not be posting on the forums, but mostly this is because they realise the futility of trying to have any form of discussion here.

 

"Shed more tears, my young apprentice."

 

Step down from your pedestal for a moment and take a good look at a little thing we call 'reality'.

 

As I said, coding takes time. Figuring out what to code takes even more time. By this I mean figuring out how to put something in without affecting something else. Fine, they managed to put in a new tier (and you "Dedicated PvPers" then complain that it looks bland or common place even though you wanted it 'now') but for some reason the item ID on the Jedi Knight gloves decides to go wonky on a call string and it shows up for Korriban Commendations...

 

They've had several years and an abundance of feedback from beta, all of which seems to have been largely wasted. What you seem to be suggesting is that we should all cancel our subs until they get their act together and make the game as it should be.

 

Case and point:

Coding takes time. More time than you "Dedicated PvPers" seem capable of waiting. Learn some patience already.

 

We exercised patience during the many years between announcement (leak) and game launch.

 

We exercised patience as we waited for our beta invites, hoping we'd get a chance to help with the production of this eagerly-anticipated game.

 

We exercised patience as our feedback was largely ignored during beta, and hundreds of problems were left unsolved which still remain today.

 

We exercised patience while waiting for our EGA invites, many of us twiddling our thumbs whilst our friends who ordered later than we did were playing the game and rubbing our noses in it.

 

We exercised patience for 2 months while we gave yet more feedback to the developers, only for them to prioritise a meaningless nerf to Legacy EXP gains in the last patch.

 

The well of patience is beginning to run dry, friend.

[TheRFC]

Simply adding pvp content isn't enough at this point though it'd be a massive step forward.

 

If this game released with three flash-points (norm and hardmode total) and one operation at cap, pve players would be up in arms.

 

I wouldn't bother arguing with the morons. I'd just have your 'I told you so, peasant' when you see them on the GW2 forums saying how bored they got of SWTOR.

 

I've posed the Q to many PvEers about how they'd feel having to play the same 3 Flashpoints over and over, one in particular 9/10 times and they just don't answer you. You get called everything and anything but they simply won't answer.

 

I'm a SW fan generally, love a decent MMO ... but the content for PvP is severely lacking. When people compare this to WoW's first few years I don't understand their logic ... surely games released now are meant to match and best their CURRENT competition, not competition from a by-gone era in the gaming spectrum.

[Nezis]

In its current state I just do not see how TOR will be able to keep PvP players when games like Tera and GW2 are more tailored for PvPers and will be coming out soon.

 

I know my entire guild is PvPers, we have had mandatory PvP attendence in past MMOs we were present for and the only reason my entire guild hasn't quit SWTOR yet is because there isn't anything for us to move to right now.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Nezis

[mordredz]

That means they've lost 20% in the game's first month and a half LOL.

 

That's entering freefall mode considering the life-span of most MMOs.

 

oh hi you wanna know something not so quick person? thats the Highest retention of any MMO out, um ever...

 

ya it hurts when your made to look that moronic...

[mordredz]

Because these companies aren't competing against each other?

 

Because this isn't a consumer driven industry?

 

Because there hasn't been a long line of WoW clones, which is what SWTOR is at cap, that have failed and flamed out?

 

Time line has everything to do with game development. In fact time moves everything forward, it's pretty much intrinsic to any kind of creative or development process. Look at early MMOs and where we are with WoW on top and all the features it debuted that have become standards of the genre.

 

I wouldn't be writing any of this if I didn't care and wasn't genuinely disappointed.

 

And it's your post that has no weight or merit because it addresses none of the legit criticisms I've raised.

 

Grats on a paragraph of dirbble again, very nice indeed...

[Waagabond]

I love Starwars and have high hopes.

 

But I have one word that is now being silently chimmering through my head....

 

Guildwars2

 

I want PVP, hardcore PVP.

 

I got what I wanted in Warhammer online.

And I dont think Wow offers this.. Arenas is nothing but about composition and less about skills. Sure I had my 2k rated in many seasons but, again..composition composition composition.

I enjoy battlegrounds, warzones.

 

Starwars is great but class balance is a big issue.

First, sorcs and sages. Then, the only real threat to them was operatives and scoundrels. Now they was nerfd since Sages and Sorcs was crying out loud.

 

It sais something when all a team needs is a full team of sages or sorcs, or maybe add in a merc or commando for dps into the mix.

You dont need anything else.

 

Overall class balance is pretty good but there are 1 or 2 classes that is so blatantly overpowered that PVP simply is not fun. Operatives and scoundrels never was, but sages and sorcs was from Beta, and Bioware did not care about player feedback.

 

Guildwars 2 will be the game most hardcore pvpers will go to.

They are aiming at Esports and being the top pvp game, apart from a great pve experience.

 

The problem in GW and GW2 is that there is no gear difference. Part of the fun is to aqquire new gear and feel powerful. But the graphics, mechanics and overall class balance makes GW2 probably the best out there for us hardcore pvpers.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Waagabond

[TheRFC]

I don't understand why PvE players are coming here and being such whiney little b*tches.

 

WE enjoy PvP, you obviously enjoy PvE. I don't tell you what you guys SHOULD like in your PvE tastes. You find raiding, etc, invigorating, we enjoy competiting against other players.

 

For those who predominantly enjoy PvP the game is limited. FACT.

 

We aren't attacking the game from the PvE stand-point, I heard that's pretty good. But as a PvPer (not hardcore, morons, just someone who enjoys PvP ....) playing the same WZs for hundred of hours (because that IS the end-game for PvP) is monotonous. That's how we get Valor which doesn't matter for a PvEer.

 

But let's get down to brass-tacks. You need us. Competitive multiplayer is where the money's at. COD isn't the biggest gaming franchise in history because people are fond of Captain Price's debenere voice actor.

 

If you agree with that or not, you're opinion is worthless the same as if you don't like the colour blue - the sky won't change its hue for you 20% drop off in the first month and a half is free-fall mode. It'd be higher if some people hadn't brought longer subs.

 

We go, your game dies, idiots So instead of coming to the PvP forums, acting like brats and pouring vitriolic flaming onto people whose wishes don't even affect you is creating even less incentive to stay ---> your game dies faster.

 

A game like this needs a LOT of subs to keep the servers up, patches coming out and content being made.

 

Think it through Idiots.

[golfwang]

I wouldn't bother arguing with the morons. I'd just have your 'I told you so, peasant' when you see them on the GW2 forums saying how bored they got of SWTOR.

 

I've posed the Q to many PvEers about how they'd feel having to play the same 3 Flashpoints over and over, one in particular 9/10 times and they just don't answer you. You get called everything and anything but they simply won't answer.

 

I'm a SW fan generally, love a decent MMO ... but the content for PvP is severely lacking. When people compare this to WoW's first few years I don't understand their logic ... surely games released now are meant to match and best their CURRENT competition, not competition from a by-gone era in the gaming spectrum.

 

Yea...I get what you're saying, I just don't want it to come to "I told you so." I still want PvP in ToR to be awesome and I think this is a discussion worth having with other players.

 

A lot of people responding are obvious fanboys/primary raiders and thats fine. I just wish one of them would address any of the things I've laid out instead of neglecting attempts at level headed discussion.

 

I mean, I just don't get why people don't won't their MMO, their new home to be the best it possibly can be. Why wouldn't you want every facet of it to be polished and well developed? Even if you never pvp at all, the ToR community at large would be healthier and better off with a stronger represented pvp base.

 

I don't think these people realize they've nothing to lose in admitting the short comings of PvP and PvE. The best possible thing you can give to the developers of a new MMO is honest feedback and criticism. Not blind loyalty.

[Finreal]

Lets get this strait.

 

3. Dedicated PvPers

You know, if they would stop whining and /quiting... it would be more productive for the evolution of the PvP in SWToR. Instead of being vehement about particular problems (gathering data and reporting it consistently) they cry about it, threaten to leave, and then do so when the problem isn't fixed the next day.

 

Case and point:

Coding takes time. More time than you "Dedicated PvPers" seem capable of waiting. Learn some patience already.

 

I'm sure there are hundreds of mathmaticians just itching to get hold of data to consistantly report but BioWare have as yet failed to provide a combat log. (PvPers can't be patient about this one as every other game in recent MMO history has launched with a combat log) Incompetence or something to hide. I suspect the latter.

 

If BioWare had done some market research they would know that PvPers don't have patience. They want a decent fight from the get go, just like PvEers want to be able to PvE from the get go. BioWare have had half a decade to get things playable.

 

The only Padowans doing the real crying are the ones watching their EA shares lose value every month. Seeing as gamers in general hate EA with a passion, this is some compensation at least.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Finreal

[golfwang]

Grats on a paragraph of dirbble again, very nice indeed...

 

Are you ever going to contribute something to this discussion?

 

You've attempted to refute nothing I've argued or criticized. I take it I have your tacit agreement on everything, then?

[TheRFC]

I love Starwars and have high hopes.

 

But I have one word that is now being silently chimmering through my head....

 

Guildwars2

 

I want PVP, hardcore PVP.

 

I got what I wanted in Warhammer online.

And I dont think Wow offers this.. Arenas is nothing but about composition and less about skills. Sure I had my 2k rated in many seasons but, again..composition composition composition.

I enjoy battlegrounds, warzones.

 

Starwars is great but class balance is a big issue.

First, sorcs and sages. Then, the only real threat to them was operatives and scoundrels. Now they was nerfd since Sages and Sorcs was crying out loud.

 

It sais something when all a team needs is a full team of sages or sorcs, or maybe add in a merc or commando for dps into the mix.

You dont need anything else.

 

Overall class balance is pretty good but there are 1 or 2 classes that is so blatantly overpowered that PVP simply is not fun. Operatives and scoundrels never was, but sages and sorcs was from Beta, and Bioware did not care about player feedback.

 

Guildwars 2 will be the game most hardcore pvpers will go to.

They are aiming at Esports and being the top pvp game, apart from a great pve experience.

 

The problem in GW and GW2 is that there is no gear difference. Part of the fun is to aqquire new gear and feel powerful. But the graphics, mechanics and overall class balance makes GW2 probably the best out there for us hardcore pvpers.

 

 

Agreed. The game looks beautiful and love the dynamic of having 3 factions.

 

Would like to see gear count for something but if the game isn't too equalised then don't mind opening a can of wrecksauce the old fashioned way

[ImURmaster]

That means they've lost 20% in the game's first month and a half LOL.

 

That's entering freefall mode considering the life-span of most MMOs.

 

Considering you don't need to sub for the first month and the fact that plenty of ppl who bought the game will not like it regardless o f PvP. Also, there was plenty of players that power leveled to 50 only to realize that subbing would be stupid because they hit 50 in 3 days and after 30 days they literally have nothing to do except grind the same content over and over for credits/commendations they won't use. Combine all that into one idea and 20% loss is pretty darn good for an MMO after the fist 30 day included play time.

 

If you chose to play this game strictly for the PvP content, you chose poorly. This game was never advertised as PvP centric. GW2 is coming, that probably your best bet. What this game does well and will only improve upon is giving options for player that want to experience PvP and PvE.

Edited February 9, 2012 by ImURmaster

[PHInnocent]

So everything comes out perfect? wait no, everything improves with time, EVERYTHING...

 

Who cares who year it is, you try writing some code and be diffrent than the rest then get back at me champ, thanks...

I'll take that as a promise and come back for one month 1st of January 2013.

[TheRFC]

I don't think these people realize they've nothing to lose in admitting the short comings of PvP and PvE. The best possible thing you can give to the developers of a new MMO is honest feedback and criticism. Not blind loyalty.

 

People are idiots, though.

 

I like to espouse the mantra that EVERYTHING and everyone has room for improvement. People are far too apathetic and content sitting in their own sweaty stew for hours battling NPCs.

 

I've never been on the PvE forums so I've no idea why we get a constant trickle-down (of usually the same losers) from there who slag off PvPers for having an opinion. Most of the threads on this forum are from disgruntled members of the PvP community about this facet of the game.

 

I'd like to hit Rank 60 Valor because I'm close but I'm growing increasingly content letting this game die in stupid-fast time because of the overall whiney element from raid-bunnies and casuals who hinder any progress or have their tongue in BW's a**.

 

If you're a PvPer on this game you just get punished.

 

I hit L50 after the 50 bracket and took a kicking for a couple of days. Casuals don't even want to do that so they've cried about the gear and now most will have a full set in a couple of days. Why has anyone else, like me, who've hit L50 after the bracket bothered to grind for the last 3 weeks when we're seeing newbies rocking equal or better gear to us on their first day? LOL

 

Insta-gratification ADHD generation.

[Waagabond]

I don't understand why PvE players are coming here and being such whiney little b*tches.

 

WE enjoy PvP, you obviously enjoy PvE. I don't tell you what you guys SHOULD like in your PvE tastes. You find raiding, etc, invigorating, we enjoy competiting against other players.

 

For those who predominantly enjoy PvP the game is limited. FACT.

 

We aren't attacking the game from the PvE stand-point, I heard that's pretty good. But as a PvPer (not hardcore, morons, just someone who enjoys PvP ....) playing the same WZs for hundred of hours (because that IS the end-game for PvP) is monotonous. That's how we get Valor which doesn't matter for a PvEer.

 

But let's get down to brass-tacks. You need us. Competitive multiplayer is where the money's at. COD isn't the biggest gaming franchise in history because people are fond of Captain Price's debenere voice actor.

 

If you agree with that or not, you're opinion is worthless the same as if you don't like the colour blue - the sky won't change its hue for you 20% drop off in the first month and a half is free-fall mode. It'd be higher if some people hadn't brought longer subs.

 

We go, your game dies, idiots So instead of coming to the PvP forums, acting like brats and pouring vitriolic flaming onto people whose wishes don't even affect you is creating even less incentive to stay ---> your game dies faster.

 

A game like this needs a LOT of subs to keep the servers up, patches coming out and content being made.

 

Think it through Idiots.

 

Im no elitist, but you are right.

 

I love PVE, or well, ok, I like it.

But I have always been into MMOs for the PVP.

 

I started with Dark Age of Camelot, the grandfather of MMO PVP.

The only game after that where PVP was great, was warhammer online, despite its flaws, bugs and some class balance issues that later got fixed, it was a great game. Today its utterly great but the players left since it took too long to fix.

They messed warhammer up due to one reason: They did NOT listen to player feedback, from active and respected PVPers. They did however listen to the general wine from casual pvp people with little to no experience.

Then again, its not easy to know who is right and wrong.

(Ended up that they invited some of our guild members to discuss warhammers future, and well, the game got to be extremly good but it was too late).

 

Bioware should invite some of the experienced PVPers among us to discuss class balance, what we like to see in competative pvp games etc.

 

But last but not least.

 

There are 2 PVpers for every PVEr out there.

 

I know you enjoy your PVE, but trust me, if there is no PVP content worth its salt, your PVE wont be there either, cause the game just shut down.

 

Bioware should focus on them both, cause PVP people also enjoy good PVE.

 

Every raiding, PVE guild I have been on in any MMO, have always consisted of high ranked pvp people. Those have been the people that cleared content first etc, due to very good team play, tactics, communication, which you apply in pvp also goes a long way in PVE.

 

I honestly like SWTOR very much. I had a lot of fun with my vanguard, now enjoying my lower level scoundrel. Its a shame it was nerfd as it was not necessary but hey.

 

They need to first fix sages and sorcs. Then they need to add more warzones and we are getting somewhere. Now we know they are adding new PVP content, but this is also what they really should focus on.

PVErs will have to wait, pvpers at this stage should be prioritized simply since there already is a ton of nice pve content, but the PVP content is similar to what WoW had during its first 2 years, which honestly was crap.

[damolawler]

I truly think that these forums would be a much better place if everyone one used the word "whining" in their posts were to go and suck on the end of a loaded shotgun.

 

Just saying.

[kirorx]

IDK. I still play, i am commited though because its starwars and i have no other choices.

 

I was looking forward to this game, a few friends of mine were as well. This would be the first time i had intended to play with people from my RL.

 

Most of them pvp. None of them are playing anymore. I am the only one still subscribing. They had various reasons for not playing but mostly its was pvp related issues and a "been here done that feeling.

[Kayden]

Why? It's pretty spot on analysis. Like over on the WoW forums, it's just another person declaring doom and gloom. People have been saying that for a long time, and will for years to come.

 

This aint WoW, this aint Blizzard.

 

Remember Aoc, WAR, Aion? they were better pvp games than SWTOR is.

 

Anyone who want to do just abit of competitive pvp, will be extremely dissapointed with this game, which is pretty much what the OP is saying.

[golfwang]

IDK. I still play, i am commited though because its starwars and i have no other choices.

 

I was looking forward to this game, a few friends of mine were as well. This would be the first time i had intended to play with people from my RL.

 

Most of them pvp. None of them are playing anymore. I am the only one still subscribing. They had various reasons for not playing but mostly its was pvp related issues and a "been here done that feeling.

 

What Bioware needs to worry about is the fact that this year, you and every other potential subscriber will have three AAA MMO titles to choose from in addition to ToR.

 

Thats pretty stiff competition for a new MMO with a disgruntled PvP base to deal with.

 

The PvE players and trolling naysayers just don't understand that failing to take this game to task for it's flaws will only hurt it when it has to actually compete. Right now ToR is the only new alternative in a stagnant market. I'm worried that they aren't capitalizing on that in respect to pve and pvp....there is simply no innovation at cap and a serious lack of pvp content/encouraging design.

 

I've no doubt your pvp friends are going to love GW2.

Edited February 9, 2012 by golfwang

[Kayden]

Considering you don't need to sub for the first month and the fact that plenty of ppl who bought the game will not like it regardless o f PvP. Also, there was plenty of players that power leveled to 50 only to realize that subbing would be stupid because they hit 50 in 3 days and after 30 days they literally have nothing to do except grind the same content over and over for credits/commendations they won't use. Combine all that into one idea and 20% loss is pretty darn good for an MMO after the fist 30 day included play time.

 

If you chose to play this game strictly for the PvP content, you chose poorly. This game was never advertised as PvP centric. GW2 is coming, that probably your best bet. What this game does well and will only improve upon is giving options for player that want to experience PvP and PvE.

 

Since when was a 20% loss of customers within the first month "pretty darn good" ?

 

Anyone who bought the game, 10 days after release or later, were on their free month when they did the "count", they'll be included even if they cancel their sub, since it'll run for the entire month.

 

 

 

The game is just terrible for pvp, I'll agree on that, I'm not even sure why they added pvp for this game, it's a timesink and anything but fun, compared to games that have gotten it somewhat on the mark (hello GW)

[Cernow]

PvP with a purpose was born with DAoC in 2001, October, the same date it has been released.

 

Indeed. And PvP with a purpose died in 2004 with the release of WoW.

 

Minigames don't cut it. You can make them as creative as you like, but too many players either don't care about the objectives, don't want to bother or don't understand. the objectives People quit out of them if they are losing or not getting their way. Premades farm them with the end result no-one has any fun.

 

Arenas are ok for a segement of the PvP crowd, but many don't like them.

 

True PvP action is not minigames but realm vs realm PvP, open world PvP and Daoc-style non-instanced Battleground PvP, or better still a mix of all of these.

 

The sooner more games get away from the "let's bolt on some PvP minigames to a PVE game" mentality, the more likely they are to retain players who like PvP.

 

GW2 looks to be heading in the right direction, I just hope they stay on course.

 

Oh and I'm mostly playing SWTOR for the PVE, but nevertheless I'd love to see Bioware implement a better PvP system here because I'd be much more likely to play the game long term once I've exhausted the PVE content.

[Princz]

This aint WoW, this aint Blizzard.

 

Remember Aoc, WAR, Aion? they were better pvp games than SWTOR is.

 

Anyone who want to do just abit of competitive pvp, will be extremely dissapointed with this game, which is pretty much what the OP is saying.

 

AoC... the best combat system game i have ever seen in an MMO...Collector edition

 

1) Broken mass pvp content, Bori and a useless game director. All pvpers left. Sad this game had the potential to be the best pvp game. No there are only 2 servers there half empty and laggy as hell. They still introduce pve dungeons and beg me to resubscribe with email offers.

 

War ... Awesome mass pvp game. Collector edition

 

1) Poor game mechanics and boooooooring play style... I left AOC because i was mad about it ... but i left WAR because of utter boredom.

 

AION... was there at launch as well... really "cute" game airborn combat. cheap *** collector edition....

 

1) I just couldnt possible grind all that XP.... They thought i was Korean or something.... (game already had 1 year success in ASIA before launch in Europe).

Now i hear things are better there and i also hear that a lot of guilds are going back there.

 

 

SWTOR? it too early to tell.... from what i hear and see thou the population decreases by the day even inside my guild.... people have just nothing to do.... I believe SWTOR gave everything too fast and has no content to make up for it. As for pvp especially.... yeah well ... if i wanted repeatable minigames i would have stayed in AOC.... The only difference there is no motivation for me to go back there, here atleast i miss couple of battlemaster pieces....

Edited February 9, 2012 by Princz