Alot people forget that this game is new...

[Shingara]

Let's change "would not" to "should not" as I had originally typed but decided to change, shall we

 

Bioware said many times in interviews that they wanted TOR to break the mold for MMOs and get past the whole "kill 10 x" grind. Never happened. And I think it's fair to expect a game in 2012 by a AAA developer to be superior to a game released in 2004.

 

Thats true to a point, the bonus quests are kill x things but normally they are kill x things that are in the way of what your quest is, but 2012 aint over yet and all you have todo is look at whats coming to see what we have now will be radically different to what we have at the end of 2012. no ?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Abruptum]

Thats true to a point, the bonus quests are kill x things but normally they are kill x things that are in the way of what your quest is, but 2012 aint over yet and all you have todo is look at whats coming to see what we have now will be radically different to what we have at the end of 2012. no ?

 

Release is what matters. It's no good to say "hey guys, the game will have twice as many features as any other MMO when the new update comes out December 2012". Do you see why it's disappointing to hear the developer say how it's going to be wildly different and then find out it's not when you finally get to play it?

 

And kill x things to get to kill y is just padding. Doesn't really do anything new, no?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Abruptum

[Uruare]

Pretexting on a grand scale or rookie mistakes in abundance?

 

The world...may never know.

[Palenen]

Comparing something to something else is simply someone's opinion which is not warranted or needed. The issue remains that people cannot post without their opinions. Such as mine.

 

I only played WoW from it's release and about 4 months into it. The features WoW had on it's release are in TOR except character animating while your talking in chat or typing those 'hooked' words to a animation. Those and character animations were Fantastic! The sandbox world running from one end of the continent to the other was fantastic too. You did have your ships to load on to the other continent which was accepted. TOR has planets but some of them seem fairly small but you can run everywhere. The issue that I have seen is not being able to run to the other factions side. If those walls were taken down or adjusted, would be better. Exploring is another major factor into mmo's.

 

IF social things were placed into game such as gambling mini games (may not happen due to kids and teens) Character customizations and colors such as visual outfits that allow us to retain our armors and gear. Automatic animated characters, sitting down in chairs, perhaps even clicking on a npc that does nothing but gives you a 'move along' verbal message or saying of some sort. Things that bring the world alive.

 

I am no sure if it will come or not. I have not rushed to the top. In fact when I hit mid 30's with the Jugg, I rolled a Marauder to see the difference. However, I am a bit concerned for I don't care to run pvp over and over and over and over and over.

[Zannis]

Even so, with BW starting fresh in this genre, they managed to copy every detail - down to their very flaws - from the rest of the MMO genre. Making this "just another MMO". There's a good reason why people are saying "If you've played one, you've played them all."

 

Class storylines were one step in the correct direction. Ultimately, it was only one step. In my opinion, way too early for launch. It shouldn't have been just one step, it should have been a running start.

 

Oh - and yes you do compare with other MMO's and other games. Would you give a new car company some slack just because it's their first year producing cars, and their model didnt pass the Encap safety test? No, you don't. You still compare that company with other companies that have been producing cars for the bigger part of the last century.

Games have come a long way since pong. And cars too.

 

My point exactly. You don't compare new products to those released 7 years ago. You compare them to the products that are on the market today.

 

I agree that patience is required, but comparing this game's launch to WoW's launch is a flawed argument. There are some things that should have absolutely been in game at launch, such as a combat log and server transfers. Did Bioware really believe that each of it's servers would have a robust and evenly balanced population out of the gate?

 

Server transfers also tie into character copies on the PTS. There is a reason most of the patches on the PTS are released after only a week. Very few players are testing, and I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to level a new character to 50 just to play test the game. They don't even offer the option for pre-rolled characters.

[Vodalus]

This is what is wrong with the gaming community today. All of the sudden, it has become a sin to try to do things differently, or try to focus on 90% of the game instead of the 10% which is end game content.

 

EVERY MMO does not need EVERY single feature of EVERY other MMO to be successful.

 

Seriously, it is like people want WoW with lightsabers.

 

I don't end game. Seriously, I don't. You don't know what you are talking about. I couldn't care less about end game, personally. I do, however, know that my play-style is not the only play style and that this, or any big-budget MMO, cannot survive on a single play-style customer base. For that reason, I do think end game content is important. But that is not what I, or most people here, are complaining about.

 

Here, want a simple example: a fraking search feature in the market. That's right, something so simple and universal and they can't even implement that properly.

 

How about companions returning from crew skills not closing your maximum of 2 open and unmovable windows?

 

How about scaleable and movable UI elements since, you know, there is more than 1 monitor on the market with more than 1 seating configuration and desk arrangement and more than 1 identical visual capability among all of the players.

 

Do I need to go on? Take off your rose-colored glasses and actually look at what people are complaining about. These things don't bother you? Great. I'm glad. But just because they don't bother you does not mean the issues don't exist or that they are not stupid and lazy omissions from a game released in 2012 (and don't even try to get technical about 2 weeks left of 2011 here).

[Zannis]

PS when have bioware ever come out and professed anything about what this game should have compared to anything ?, its only the playerbase doing that.

 

So you're saying you never compare anything that you own to other products? Or is this lack of comparison specific just to video games?

[Shingara]

Release is what matters. It's no good to say "hey guys, the game will have twice as many features as any other MMO when the new update comes out December 2012". Do you see why it's disappointing to hear the developer say how it's going to be wildly different and then find out it's not when you finally get to play it?

 

And kill x things to get to kill y is just padding. Doesn't really do anything new, no?

 

Why are you even trying to suggest quantity has anything todo with quality ?

 

And this game is exactly how i expected it tobe, i played the beta, everyone who pre ordered played the beta. Anyone thinking that Whilst in the beta there would be 17 new huge things added to the game without being tested mear weeks later at release were only expecting to much.

 

We have space, pvp, warzones, a pvp match type not seen before, usuable planets, a usable combat system, the best rpg element i have ever seen within an mmo before amongst the other things within the game. People not liking them doesnt change the fact that they are there. Neither does it change what has been stated to come in 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 or 1.5.

 

I dont see anywhere that it states on this site, from the devs or on the box that says its anything but what is here. do you ?

[Abruptum]

EDIT: Double post Edited February 13, 2012 by Abruptum

[Shingara]

So you're saying you never compare anything that you own to other products? Or is this lack of comparison specific just to video games?

 

Im saying that when i buy something i compare it to something like it, if i buy a tv i compare it to the tv at the side of it, I also read what the tv has, if it has what i want i buy it. I dont buy a tv and expect the people who make it to come to my house later and say hi we thought that you might want this in 3d so we are going to upgrade it for you.

[Abruptum]

Why are you even trying to suggest quantity has anything todo with quality ?

 

And this game is exactly how i expected it tobe, i played the beta, everyone who pre ordered played the beta. Anyone thinking that Whilst in the beta there would be 17 new huge things added to the game without being tested mear weeks later at release were only expecting to much.

 

We have space, pvp, warzones, a pvp match type not seen before, usuable planets, a usable combat system, the best rpg element i have ever seen within an mmo before amongst the other things within the game. People not liking them doesnt change the fact that they are there. Neither does it change what has been stated to come in 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 or 1.5.

 

I dont see anywhere that it states on this site, from the devs or on the box that says its anything but what is here. do you ?

 

My post was to the contrary of quantity, so read through it again. Most of the features in this game are slightly tweaked versions of the same features in other MMOs that came out years and years ago. I'm not saying I'm not getting my money's worth, it's simply a damn shame they didn't do anything overly fresh like they said they were in early developer diaries.

 

Do I need to go on? Take off your rose-colored glasses and actually look at what people are complaining about. These things don't bother you? Great. I'm glad. But just because they don't bother you does not mean the issues don't exist or that they are not stupid and lazy omissions from a game released in 2012 (and don't even try to get technical about 2 weeks left of 2011 here).

 

It's almost as if the features we expect aren't simple features that make the game pleasant and more enjoyable to play. We're not asking for Bioware to add Tauren and dragon mounts, we just want up-to-date technical features. It feels like I've bought a 2012 model car that ends up coming without air conditioning and electronic windows and then being told I'm expecting too much.

[Knewt]

you can not compare years of development to a new game, besides the DEV's never claimed to be a wow killer or anything else, no new game made by anyone is going to launch with the same level of devlepment as a game that has been out for years, where do people get this these crazy ideas.. this is a /facepalm moment

So compare it to Rift. SWTOR is missing almost all of the customization options Rift had at launch. BW spent so much time and effort on the leveling experience (which is fantastic) that they ran out of time to add the features people expect when they get to max level.

[Shingara]

My post was to the contrary of quantity, so read through it again. Most of the features in this game are slightly tweaked versions of the same features in other MMOs that came out years and years ago. I'm not saying I'm not getting my money's worth, it's simply a damn shame they didn't do anything overly fresh like they said they were in early developer diaries.

 

 

I could understand where your coming from if it wasnt for the fact that they didnt just release the game and then start on patch's 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5,

Edited February 13, 2012 by Shingara

[Abruptum]

I could understand where your coming from if it wasnt far the fact that they didnt just release the game and then start on patch's 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5,

 

All were bug fixes and very minor additions (e.g different cooldown animations). It's a tiny, miniscule start.

[Shingara]

All were bug fixes and very minor additions (e.g different cooldown animations). It's a tiny, miniscule start.

 

1.1 added a new op and flashpoint, go look up what 1.2 and the rest are adding.

[Sunsoar]

People forget that this is 2012 and not 2004. Many game have come out between the success of WoW and TOR. Some are poo and some are awesome but are considered failures because they dont have the player base of WoW or are f2p. If you generally think f2p = fail, then youre uneducated in math and therefore have no valid argument with me.

 

There are standards for todays game and to not think that is absurd. TOR released with barely, BARELY, the bare minimum to hit an early launch.

 

Why release a barebones game to compete with fleshed out competition out already? Not everything can be added at launch no, but the lack of a lot of stuff missing in TORs launch is pathetic.

 

High res textures in a 2012 game missing? Check.

Broken ability delay for all of beta and 2months after launch? Check

No guild banks/poor guild UI? Check

No duel/tri/quad spec? Check

Imbalanced warzone ques? Check

Poorly designed pvp planet? Check

2months in and still poorly designed pvp planet? Check

2months in and still warzone exploiting of que system and hackets? Check

 

Other things that arent as important to me like:

 

No LFD tool? Check

No farming of rares? Check

Trivial crafting(new recipes every 2 levels? What the)? Check(this is actually semi important to me)

 

 

Many more probably, but its really dependant on preference of player.

 

I for one, after many many years of mmo gaming have standards and I had to lower them to enjoy TOR. While the over all game storywise is enjoyable there is still much to hate and be disappointed on.

 

 

Note: typos will happen as I post from my G. Nexus

[Aisar]

I don't judge a game by how old or new it is, I judge it by what it is when it is presented to me.

[Abruptum]

1.1 added a new op and flashpoint, go look up what 1.2 and the rest are adding.

 

A new OP and Flashpoint were nice, but it's more of the same. Nothing new. I won't turn my nose up at the Legacy system, it's definitely a nice addition and something quite new - but the game needs more of this, and STAT.

[DarkCarnage]

My point exactly. You don't compare new products to those released 7 years ago. You compare them to the products that are on the market today.

 

I agree that patience is required, but comparing this game's launch to WoW's launch is a flawed argument. There are some things that should have absolutely been in game at launch, such as a combat log and server transfers. Did Bioware really believe that each of it's servers would have a robust and evenly balanced population out of the gate?

 

Server transfers also tie into character copies on the PTS. There is a reason most of the patches on the PTS are released after only a week. Very few players are testing, and I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to level a new character to 50 just to play test the game. They don't even offer the option for pre-rolled characters.

 

so how they test thing for the lwoer zone then ? easiest way is to make lower lvl chars and force poeple to lvl through them to look for errros, i do not see it happen that a lvl 50 goes back to hutta,korriban or the like to see if a minor bug was fixed. I yet to see a reason why combat log are needed. i gone from 1-50 done every quest,heroic and flashpoint and never had a real issue where" geez i wish i know who doing what so i can kick someone" 99% of the time it been someone not canncleing a boss move,standing in fire set up, or just not paying attention. tonight starting my ops run to see how they doing there.

[Meldwyn]

Im saying that when i buy something i compare it to something like it, if i buy a tv i compare it to the tv at the side of it, I also read what the tv has, if it has what i want i buy it. I dont buy a tv and expect the people who make it to come to my house later and say hi we thought that you might want this in 3d so we are going to upgrade it for you.

 

LOL, you crack me up!

 

So, there should never ever ever be updates to any game you buy? You want day 1 SW with whatever they put in it then, and that's it! Right? Might work for a single player game, but an MMO?

 

Your views fail, my friend. fail!

[GalacticKegger]

So compare it to Rift. SWTOR is missing almost all of the customization options Rift had at launch. BW spent so much time and effort on the leveling experience (which is fantastic) that they ran out of time to add the features people expect when they get to max level.

Rift went after the WoW crowd with its focus on opening the game up to the modding community right out of the gate. So there was more stuff added sooner - maybe too much. Now in combination with Rift Light it's almost become a F2P shareware game. BioWare chose not to go that route and I for one am glad. Edited February 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[RobHouse]

I won't turn my nose up at the Legacy system, it's definitely a nice addition and something quite new

 

its not new, its a rehashed way of giving you something you've already had.

 

*NEW* : unlike 90% of all RPGs on the market, mass effect will be a shooter

*NOT NEW* : instead of getting this power from lvling one char to 50, youll get this power from leveling 2 chars to 25!

[Stelakh]

People are whining for Dungeon Finders, Damage Meters, Threath meters, Healing Meters, Balanced PVP etc etc. And I understand that, cause I want those things aswell.

 

BUT stop saying that SW:ToR is a failed game because they don't have all this, while for example WoW does. WoW had NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING, of this at launch.

 

 

So let me give you abit of an insight what was available at WoW's launch.

 

It doesn't matter, nobody should care. WoW is irrelevant to development of today's newly-launched games. Why? I'll tell you.

 

The problem with this kind of "I'll just take whatever they hand me and be happy because it's a new game and WoW didn't have it" is that you have to consider things in a temporal context.

 

First things first, and let's remember it because it's important: ToR isn't as "new" as people think it is. It's had more money thrown at its development than any other game in history. It's also spent five years - five years - in development. It may be recently launched, but the game is old and spent far too much time in development to be what it is.

 

Given that, in and of itself, there's really no excuse for the way ToR launched, and no excuse for the problems it still has - except that the developer making the game was utterly inexperienced in the MMO genre (which is a shame, because BioWare made some great games).

 

Second, everyone likes to compare to WoW's early days any MMO that comes out without thinking for two seconds that the compairsons are moot and pointless.

 

The reason the comparisons are moot and pointless is simple: WoW launched and was "new" over seven years ago.

 

The only possible way that an MMO launched in 2011 can be compared to an MMO launched seven years prior is if here have been absolutely no advances in technology, imagination, and development in general.

 

In order to draw valid comparisons between WoW's launch and early days and ToR's launch and early days there must have been seven years of technological and developmental stagnation - or they must have both been in a launch state at the same point in time, (which they weren't, of course).

 

Otherwise, you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

At best, it means developers are not competent enough to develop their own games from the ground up - and I mean totally from scratch (instead of choosing to use, say, the HERO engine that wasn't really designed to handle a game like ToR the way they want it to) - or they're simply incapable of watching and learning.

 

At worst, it means developers just don't care so long as they can make a buck.

 

Which is it, I wonder?

 

Either way, please, people, stop comparing every new game that comes along to WoW.

 

The world, society, culture, and technology have moved forward in the past 7 years since WoW launched. Things standard to the MMO genre became standard over those years.

 

So start thinking about the now instead of the then. It'll improve your argument.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Stelakh

[mangarrage]

lol

 

You guys with your cars and your tv nonsense

 

The difference is you knew what the game was. Anyone who preordered played the game. You saw what it was.

How were you understanding it any differently?

 

Did you imagine that some time before last beta and release the whole game was magically going to become something different? And all of the features that you hoped for (that werent in the game or even mentioned about in any dev content) would just be there?

 

Basic functionality of the UI? are you kidding. Do you honestly exect anyone to believe that because you cant move a window from one corner to another the UI doesnt function?

 

All the features in previous mmo should automatically be in new mmos. this one topped the cake for me.

I have played a ton of mmo over the years and I do not recall any game with the quantity of garbage addon that wow produced. Taking aside act (which no game company released by the way for their game) and 2 other games I can remember that had some sort of threat meter where are all these game with all these addons?

 

The fact is you complainers are fans of wow, and thats it and you want other game to be just like it.

I dont blame you it was the easiest and most convenient game released (well it came to be, it wasnt like that until post BC) and now you think somehow they are industry standards lol

 

So go on making your car and tv and other nonsensical attempt at comparison

 

You played what you saw, if you dont like it, dont play it, if you do like do. It is really that simple

 

And finally for a few posters who I laos loled at, if you think for one second that bw thought they were going to compete with wow 2 months out of the gate you are just ridiculous and beyond reason

 

And I will give you a real comparison. I work for an auction company. The company is now 4 months old. Do you think at any point in time that we said well this year we are going to put ebay or sotheby out of business? absolutely not. Get some logic people

Edited February 13, 2012 by mangarrage

[Abruptum]

its not new, its a rehashed way of giving you something you've already had.

 

*NEW* : unlike 90% of all RPGs on the market, mass effect will be a shooter

*NOT NEW* : instead of getting this power from lvling one char to 50, youll get this power from leveling 2 chars to 25!

 

As I understand it, it gives you a bunch of bonuses to help level your new characters up much faster and will integrate a family storyline into the game. I'm guessing I'm mistaken?