Is Obi-Wan Kenobi guilty of assisting the New Empire ruled by Sidious?

[tomhoffman]

I was rewatching episode 3 and i just noticed something. Controlling and keeping Vader/Anakin alive was a critical part in Sidious's plan to restore the Sith Empire. However, in the final battle, Obi-Wan simply spared Anakin because he did not have the guts to kill him. Don't get me wrong, i play both Empire and Rep. in SW:TOR and Obi is my favorite character, but i still think he unwillingly assisted the New Empire. What do you guys/gals think?

[smartalectwo]

Well, him and literally everyone else in the Republic hierarchy, Jedi Order and Seperatist movement.

[Fyurii]

Vader only survived because of Sidious.

In fact, had Yoda been a match for Sidious, Anakin would have died on Mustufar!

Not only that, but many more Jedi would have survived The Purge, Alderaan would still be a planet instead of a new asteroid field....

 

That's one Infinities series I'd love to read. What if Yoda didn't fail to defeat Emperor Palpatine!

[tomhoffman]

Well yes, but he KNEW that if he's keeping Anakin alive, the Empire WILL succeed.

[Strangiato]

The only one to blame is Anakin. He made his own choice. No one else made it for him.

[Erevan_Kindelar]

Obi-Wan was still attached to the idea that Qui-Gon was right about Ani, and that he was the one who would bring balance to the Force... which he eventually did 20 years later, I guess. Better late than never.

 

So was Obi-Wan being a sentimental fool for leaving Ani alive, sort of? Or was he emotionally attached to his Padawan?

Or was he just leaving the boy there to die slowly, and without anticipating that Sidious might retrieve what was left of Ani and treat his wounds?

[tomhoffman]

Well, i think he did it because he felt that Sidious would save Ani's life, and he just did not have the heart to kill his apprentice/brother/friend.

[DarthMarcin]

Obi-Wan was arrogant and reckless pre- and post-Jedi wipe. All that crap about "certain point of view". He was the worst Jedi master ever. It was his fault that Anakin became Vader.

I'm 100% sure that the story would be much different if Qui-Gonn had trained Anakin.

Edited February 8, 2012 by DarthMarcin

[TheTurniipKing]

I was rewatching episode 3 and i just noticed something. Controlling and keeping Vader/Anakin alive was a critical part in Sidious's plan to restore the Sith Empire. However, in the final battle, Obi-Wan simply spared Anakin because he did not have the guts to kill him. Don't get me wrong, i play both Empire and Rep. in SW:TOR and Obi is my favorite character, but i still think he unwillingly assisted the New Empire. What do you guys/gals think?

Actually, by horrifically crippling Anakin rather than killing him, Obi-wan sowed the seeds of the dissent between Sidious and Vader that would eventually drive Anakin back to redemption.

 

See, even crippled, Vader was too strong an asset to be ignored. But Sidious wanted a new apprentice who could wield force lightning, which Vader, in his life support suit, no longer could.

 

So it creates the circumstance where neither Sidious not Vader truly want Luke dead. Both want him as their apprentice, and this is what kept Luke alive when many times over he should simply have been dead.

Edited February 8, 2012 by TheTurniipKing

[deusBAAL]

"Balance to the Force" is really funny to me. In a time where he lightside rules, the top Jedis are after "Balance of the Force"... does this sound suicidial to anyone else, too?

 

Now in SWTOR, with Sith and Jedi being equally strong, we are playing in a time period with the "Force at Balance"

[TheTurniipKing]

"Balance to the Force" is really funny to me. In a time where he lightside rules, the top Jedis are after "Balance of the Force"... does this sound suicidial to anyone else, too?

 

Now in SWTOR, with Sith and Jedi being equally strong, we are playing in a time period with the "Force at Balance"

Depends on how you consider the Force: It's a fairly common belief among Jedi that light-side use is natural state of the Force (which the Sith disrupt) rather than an equal and opposite reaction to the Sith.

[Rayla_Felana]

Obi-Wan thought Vader was dead until he saw him on a holo-news vid, he was very surprised to learn he was still alive, plus, Jedi don't kill unarmed, from Obi-Wan's point of view, he was already dead anyway, he wasn't going to go further, and how was he to know that Yoda would fail to defeat Sidious? If I remember correctly in the novel he was surprised when he learnt Yoda had lost.

[Atsurak]

Depends on how you consider the Force: It's a fairly common belief among Jedi that light-side use is natural state of the Force (which the Sith disrupt) rather than an equal and opposite reaction to the Sith.

 

which just goes to show that choosing to interpret prophecies in a selfish way is a bad idea

 

so your there, the jedi basically rule the galaxy, there are at most 2 sith around at any one time.

and you get told 'this bloke here, he'll bring balance to the force!'

now to me, theres definitely 2 ways to interpret that. either it means 'he'll wipe out the sith, and make the force all balanced, because afterall - jedi = balance'... or it means 'he'll balance out the sides, make it so sith are equal in power to jedi'.

now personally, i think going 'obviously it means the first one, it definitely must!' is a pretty reckless and dangerous thing to do.

[Rayla_Felana]

Well, i think he did it because he felt that Sidious would save Ani's life, and he just did not have the heart to kill his apprentice/brother/friend.

 

Well you can think what you want, it is canon that he thought Vader was dead for a long time after he settled down on Tatooine, as I stated he saw on a Holo-vid in a cantina that this black suited Imperial enforcer was marching around the galaxy killing thousands, when the news reporter revealed him to be Darth Vader he was in shock.

[Rayla_Felana]

which just goes to show that choosing to interpret prophecies in a selfish way is a bad idea

 

so your there, the jedi basically rule the galaxy, there are at most 2 sith around at any one time.

and you get told 'this bloke here, he'll bring balance to the force!'

now to me, theres definitely 2 ways to interpret that. either it means 'he'll wipe out the sith, and make the force all balanced, because afterall - jedi = balance'... or it means 'he'll balance out the sides, make it so sith are equal in power to jedi'.

now personally, i think going 'obviously it means the first one, it definitely must!' is a pretty reckless and dangerous thing to do.

 

George himself described the Sith and the Dark Side as a cancer in the force, he also goes onto state that Vader brought balance to the force by killing himself and Darth Sidious.

[cadehand]

Obi-Wan was still attached to the idea that Qui-Gon was right about Ani, and that he was the one who would bring balance to the Force... which he eventually did 20 years later, I guess. Better late than never.

 

So was Obi-Wan being a sentimental fool for leaving Ani alive, sort of? Or was he emotionally attached to his Padawan?

Or was he just leaving the boy there to die slowly, and without anticipating that Sidious might retrieve what was left of Ani and treat his wounds?

 

In the novel, Obi-Wan was going to finish Anakin off, but he didn't trust the footing. He knew that if he attempted to go down the hill he would be dragged down in the lava below. He also, fled because he felt the "dark presence" of Palapatine's ship arriving and worried that meant Yoda failed and knew he was no match for Palpatine.

[dreoff]

The jedi don't kill unarmed peoples. Plus Obi loved Anakin like his brother/ or son, hard to say really. But mostly I think it's because he felt it'd be wrong to kill anakin himself. Very much the same way as batman in batman begins "I can't kill you, but I don't have to save you either."

[Kanshan]

I was rewatching episode 3 and i just noticed something. Controlling and keeping Vader/Anakin alive was a critical part in Sidious's plan to restore the Sith Empire. However, in the final battle, Obi-Wan simply spared Anakin because he did not have the guts to kill him. Don't get me wrong, i play both Empire and Rep. in SW:TOR and Obi is my favorite character, but i still think he unwillingly assisted the New Empire. What do you guys/gals think?

 

Anakin was defeated at this point, killing him would have been murder.

Jedi

Don't

Murder.

Atleast the lightside ones...

[Jorander]

I was rewatching episode 3 and i just noticed something. Controlling and keeping Vader/Anakin alive was a critical part in Sidious's plan to restore the Sith Empire. However, in the final battle, Obi-Wan simply spared Anakin because he did not have the guts to kill him. Don't get me wrong, i play both Empire and Rep. in SW:TOR and Obi is my favorite character, but i still think he unwillingly assisted the New Empire. What do you guys/gals think?

 

Well, this is kind of touched on in the RotS novelization and Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force. What it boils down to, is that he had a choice to let go of his attatchments there as the Force willed, or hang onto them. He chose to let go, as that was the time to do so. That is why he did not try to save Anakin or take him with him. As for hwy he didn't kill him, the same books touch on this as well.

 

Long and short of it, it would have been wrong of Obi-Wan to strike Anakin down while he was disabled and no longer a threat. Jedi principles and all that. It would have been a death that would not have directly protected life, which only serves and strengthens the dark side of the Force.

[Jorander]

George himself described the Sith and the Dark Side as a cancer in the force, he also goes onto state that Vader brought balance to the force by killing himself and Darth Sidious.

 

I just want to note that George specifically said that the Sith themselves in some ways act as a cancerous agent in a host body, the host body being the Sith order. The dark side was never likened to cancer by Lucas, he in fact said it was natural and necessary.

[Jorander]

Obi-Wan was arrogant and reckless pre- and post-Jedi wipe. All that crap about "certain point of view". He was the worst Jedi master ever. It was his fault that Anakin became Vader.

I'm 100% sure that the story would be much different if Qui-Gonn had trained Anakin.

 

I disagree totally. Anakin was damaged goods the moment they took him away from his mother. He had a powerful root of fear that he could never deal with. It was ultimately his own cowardice that kept him from following basic Jedi teaching about facing and understanding fear, that led him to where he was. When you look at the details of Obi-Wan's life, he is seen as what is basically the penultimate Jedi.

 

Read the RotS novelization and you will see what I am talking about, he is second only to Yoda, and perhaps ties with Mace Windu. Mace Windu certainly believed that in some respects Obi-Wan was a better Jedi than himself. Personally, knowing how Qui-Gon trains his apprenticies, I think Anakin would have been worse off. He was pretty harsh on Obi-Wan throughout his apprenticeship, and let's not forget about Qui-Gon's first padawan, that trainwreck named Xanatos. Hell, even Qui-Gon said that Obi-Wan was, "a much wiser man..."

[Dyvid]

The force works in mysteries ways....

 

IDK, if Anakin would have died on Mustafar I think the Empire would have still happens. Palpatine had already killed all the jedi and took over the Republic. He would have just found another apprentice to help root out his enemies. Don't forget, Sidious was going to get rid of Vadar and have Luke become his new apprentice.

[CptZeal]

Well yes, but he KNEW that if he's keeping Anakin alive, the Empire WILL succeed.

 

Go and rewatch that scene again. How many people do you think would go, "Oh, I'll just let him live, he's CLEARLY no where near death already and has a great chance of recovery."?

[Niconogood]

"Balance to the Force" is really funny to me. In a time where he lightside rules, the top Jedis are after "Balance of the Force"... does this sound suicidial to anyone else, too?

 

Now in SWTOR, with Sith and Jedi being equally strong, we are playing in a time period with the "Force at Balance"

 

Well, considering imps outnumber reps by 3:1 on most servers I beg to differ.

[JediArchives]

Sure, sure, but if Obi had killed Anakin, Sidious would never have been defeated. Anakin was always meant to destroy the Sith and break the Dark Side's hold on the galaxy, but Sidious, like with everything else, manipulated Anakin into diverging from his destiny.

 

So really, Obi-Wan is the savior of the universe and the coolest guy in the galaxy.