Healers = Alpha Class

[mandrillagon]

I realize that healers are dealing with a 30% healing reduction in PvP, but when I can double stun a Jedi Consular in a fire pit in Huttball and they can pop their bubble and heal through and somehow survive me, the fire and anything else and keep going, HPS in is heavily outweighing DPS out.

 

 

I have to admit I just hop through the acid and bubble/walk or sprint through fire as a healer. Unless we are focused down by 2 or more people there is no stopping a hybrid sorc/sage healer. We are the Gods in PvP and even more so in PvE.

 

All that being said not everyone wants to be a healer just because they are immortal. Some people like variety so there will always be a few different classes in a warzone match other than sorc/sage.

[Ashes_Arizona]

Being a healer means, uhh, that you heal damage. You cannot out-heal a good spike by yourself, but you can, and should, be able to heal for a steady amount for a lengthy period of time. You say a healer is bad if they can't do a 2v1? I say a DPS is bad if they can't kill a healer 1v1, and especially more than that.

 

 

Some of the longest fights I've ever had in various MMOs have been while I was a healer or I was fighting one. That's how its always been and that's how it really should be.

 

Focus on someone that isn't a healer so they have to heal the other person. Use your interrupts, knockbacks and stuns. A Sorc/Sage has, iirc, one instant-cast heal, which is a measly HoT. Every class has a knockback of some kind, at least one stun, and an interrupt. Use them to your advantage and stop trying to nerf other classes because you find it difficult to kill a class meant to be your counter.

 

Okay if Healers counter DPS, what counters healers? Cause I was pretty sure it was DPS that countered healers. Right now the only thing I've seen that can put down a healer is a heavy focus fire on them. Or a concealment spec gets the drop on them and puts them down long enough for other people to gangpile them while their helpless.

 

I'm not sure healers are supposed to be elite bosses. I'm fine with them being survivable but I really feel in most cases they're too survivable and the oddest thing is its not the heavy armor healers that have the most survivability.

[Ashes_Arizona]

I have to admit I just hop through the acid and bubble/walk or sprint through fire as a healer. Unless we are focused down by 2 or more people there is no stopping a hybrid sorc/sage healer. We are the Gods in PvP and even more so in PvE.

 

All that being said not everyone wants to be a healer just because they are immortal. Some people like variety so there will always be a few different classes in a warzone match other than sorc/sage.

 

See? I'm not insane. I literally PvP all day I see guys like this all the time.

[Bnol]

No actually its not balanced and I'm not just saying that cause I think I should be able to kill everyone I see.

 

Proper class balance design requires each class to have points of failure.

 

I have points of failure. Eventually my CD's will be locked, my migitation CD's will have been used I'll have thrown down carbonite spray, electro-dart and put out every bit of DPS I've got and I've blown my hail mary heal pack and thats it, I'm going to die. Theres no avoiding it unless I get lucky and get to healing spawn....which any smart player won't let me do.

 

And thats 1 vs 1, it can happen, it has happened, sometimes on the winning side, sometimes I lose.

 

Now, take that 1 vs 1 situation and make the other person a healer. Their points of failure, while there are at a much higher eventual threshold than mine. Because simple facts are the more HP you can keep, the higher a chance you have to win the fight.

 

So you're basically saying a healer should be able to kill a DPS class, because the healer's HPS can completely negate the DPS of the DPS class, while pushing the DPS class past its point of failure threshold.

 

Thats not balance. Thats Healers > DPS classes. And > Tank classes as well. With a possible stalemate at Healer vs Healer, and perhaps having to run away, really fast with either force run or throwing down an 8 second flashbomb in the case of the scoundrel/IA and getting out of dodge, in the case of a surprise attack from a Concealment IA or Scrapper Smug.

 

One class > all other classes isn't balance.

 

You keep coming back to a 1v1 scenario, the game isn't balanced around 1v1. When you get into 1v1 you have rock/paper/scissor situations. Yes in this game healers are not such easy targets 1v1 and they can fight back, especially if they have a hybrid spec.

 

You gave an example where you had a 5-min long 2v2 stalemate at a node in which you were fighting 2 healing capable classes. You stated that you could not output meaningful dps, which I take to mean they were CCing/LoSing/Interrupting, doing everything to survive because that is their job, to hold the node. They had a built in advantage of not having to kill you. That has more to do with the objective of Alderaan than it does to the strength of healers.

[Ashes_Arizona]

You keep coming back to a 1v1 scenario, the game isn't balanced around 1v1. When you get into 1v1 you have rock/paper/scissor situations. Yes in this game healers are not such easy targets 1v1 and they can fight back, especially if they have a hybrid spec.

 

You gave an example where you had a 5-min long 2v2 stalemate at a node in which you were fighting 2 healing capable classes. You stated that you could not output meaningful dps, which I take to mean they were CCing/LoSing/Interrupting, doing everything to survive because that is their job, to hold the node. They had a built in advantage of not having to kill you. That has more to do with the objective of Alderaan than it does to the strength of healers.

 

Nope pretty much all they were doing was healing, while alternately trying to kill the sorceror I was with but there was no way they were going to kill him. Hes pretty much immortal.

 

They did not CC, they did not interrupt. They ran around variably doing minor DPS and healing each other and thats pretty much it.

 

Yanno if it went down like you said it did I might have less issue with it cause it would at least mean they got the same amount of carpal tunnel from the situation I did, but in most part all they did was hit their heal buttons and move around.

 

Reason I know they weren't CCing is cause I didn't have to break CC once, nor did I need to use Hydraulic Overrides at all.

 

One class of ability stalemated that fight entirely. To be honest I probably didn't even need to show up cause the Sorcerer could have probably stood there healing himself while DoTing them and they'd have to have healed themselves and it would have been a big three way hit the heal button stalemate even without me involved.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ashes_Arizona

[vrok-]

See? I'm not insane. I literally PvP all day I see guys like this all the time.

Yeah but that's not even close to the ridiculousness of what you were claiming. I do all that on both my commando healer and my guardian tank equally well all the time, and without the benefit of sprint/bubble.

Edited February 8, 2012 by vrok-

[Laoi]

Dont mind this one. The operatives used the same excuse pre-nerf. " I only killed you in under 5 seconds in a single stun cause you are a terrible player". LOL. Get real. Sorcs/Sage and Healers make TOR PVP a joke. A joke on everyone who doesn't roll one of these.

 

from a shadow pov i dont see the problem. maybe u need to learn how/when to drop ur burst. when to cc. how to make use of resolve(when it actually works for once, rare stuff i know:D) but seriously i dont see how ppl can whine about sages in this regard. if any healer is hard to take down its commando/merc, best armor out of all healers, shield that makes them impossible to interupt/set back.

[Kalantris]

Nope pretty much all they were doing was healing, while alternately trying to kill the sorceror I was with but there was no way they were going to kill him. Hes pretty much immortal.

 

They did not CC, they did not interrupt. They ran around variably doing minor DPS and healing each other and thats pretty much it.

 

Yanno if it went down like you said it did I might have less issue with it cause it would at least mean they got the same amount of carpal tunnel from the situation I did, but in most part all they did was hit their heal buttons and move around.

 

Reason I know they weren't CCing is cause I didn't have to break CC once, nor did I need to use Hydraulic Overrides at all.

 

One class of ability stalemated that fight entirely. To be honest I probably didn't even need to show up cause the Sorcerer could have probably stood there healing himself while DoTing them and they'd have to have healed themselves and it would have been a big three way hit the heal button stalemate even without me involved.

 

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. We had a fight like that (me on a hybrid sage, a friend playing a trooper) against a mirror (sorc healing spec, BH healing spec). We killed the sorc in around... 1,5 seconds. I doubledoted him while my friend was hurting the BH a little bit, then fired up my procs and we both switched to sorc. I hit him for 2,5k (project) + 3,8k (wave) + 3,2k (balance) in 1,5s, the commando did the rest (grav + sticky + instant) and he was toast. Full to null in 1,5s. Sustained damage can be outhealed easily. Make sure you do burst and you coordinate it. No healer can survive that.

 

By the way no healer is able to survive the fire pits on Huttball. They hit for 3,2k/s. If I were to guess the mentioned healer was next to the pit, but shown inside due to desynchronization.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

Edited February 8, 2012 by Kalantris

[Orangerascal]

A tank complaining they can't out dps a healer *shocker* ....

 

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This just in ... the sky is blue.

 

 

P.S. When I'm dps specced I can't kill an equivalently geared healer either. That's when I call for backup. This game is not balanced for 1v1, and your job as a tank is not to kill the healer but to control the fight.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Tenndou]

Dont mind this one. The operatives used the same excuse pre-nerf. " I only killed you in under 5 seconds in a single stun cause you are a terrible player". LOL. Get real. Sorcs/Sage and Healers make TOR PVP a joke. A joke on everyone who doesn't roll one of these.

 

ye makes sense everyone should role healer so u can heal others to death.

 

fighting healers u actually notice which dps can actually play its class and who is facerolling on his keyboard being a ranged class thats enough to kill melees sorc sage healers are overpowered the other 2 are fine, commando has to stand and cast with the 10 million knockback stuns and interrupts in the game its not hard to control him, and scroundel healer is also fairly easily killable if u focus him

Edited February 8, 2012 by Tenndou

[Zootskyqua]

You keep coming back to a 1v1 scenario, the game isn't balanced around 1v1. When you get into 1v1 you have rock/paper/scissor situations. Yes in this game healers are not such easy targets 1v1 and they can fight back, especially if they have a hybrid spec.

 

You gave an example where you had a 5-min long 2v2 stalemate at a node in which you were fighting 2 healing capable classes. You stated that you could not output meaningful dps, which I take to mean they were CCing/LoSing/Interrupting, doing everything to survive because that is their job, to hold the node. They had a built in advantage of not having to kill you. That has more to do with the objective of Alderaan than it does to the strength of healers.

 

BINGO! Someone gets it. Why so many cry over 1v1 fights is beyond me. These games are built around TEAMS.

 

So many games have been ruined over these people whining, its sickening.

[Sinvx]

I solo healers, just saying.

[Avindra]

I'm not really someone that calls for individual class nerfs, I mean theres stuff I think its farked but I learn to deal with it.

 

Grav Round/Tracer Missile? Some people complain about that, I know how to deal with it, my interrupts and CC's can deal with people that use this one button wonder.

 

Assassins and Shadows I can generally deal with too. It can go either way. Guardians and Juggs can be hard to take down but I can get them down if I use my CD's right. Smugs and IA's that aren't heal spec'd I can deal with 50/50 sometimes they win if they get me when my hold breaker is on CD, sometimes I get them.

 

What I'm basically saying here is that its like....almost all the non-healing classes I feel like I'm on 50/50 footing with, and it can go either way depending on skill and luck and thats cool. But I just cannot put down a healer, Carbonite Spray, Quell, Electro-Dart....welp I'm on CD's...Quell again, welp, they healed and I get to start over.

 

You may have problems downing a healer but I bet they dont kill you either.

[Delion]

Healers have to be able to survive in any 1v1 situation, or else they have their own L2P issues. They aren't ever going to burn anybody down. By even engaging a healer you're essentially taking them out of the fight though, because they have to stop supporting their team and focus on keeping themselves alive.

 

A good healer is just like any other good class that can beat you/give you a good run for your money in pvp. Their victory is different though: staying alive.

 

As a Sage healer, I can tell you there are two classes that just absolutely ruin my day: IA: operatives who get the drop on me and SW: marauders who seem just impossible to get away from. Anything else I can pretty much bubble/heal/yawn through, but again, I'm unable to help my team in anyway.

[Falkonwing]

I solo healers, just saying.

qft!

One good DD is enough to down a healer, if you can't get it done alone, get someone to assist you. If you can't kill a healer with 2 DDs, he's beeing protected by a tank or you failed miserable.

 

Except for Merc/Commando, Healers are squishy.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Falkonwing

[tangsoo]

hah ,not being funny here but im a Sorc healer with almost full BM gear and if I get double stunned in fire then im dead unless someone else heals me or pulls me out.

 

Maybe you just had a bad dream!

[Ainew]

Yes I'm BM ranked and I'm a bad.

 

Listen I don't like the idea of nerfing anything or any class, I enjoy good balanced PvP, my major issue and complaint has been expertise, which I think is stupid cause it just artificially makes things more difficult to eventually plateau out right back where everyone started before it was introduced.

 

But this is not a case of OMGIRSUKMUSNERFCRY, healers are insanely overpowered. Trooper healers? Not so much, they can be tough, but Sages and Sorc's, Operatives and Scoundrel's are really far more problematic.

 

I watched a IA Operative Healer literally walk a huttball from the ramp to the goal line, through a lit fire pit, being stunned and CC'd left and right (Which is why I couldn't grapple them down to the pit cause their resolve bar was full white constantly) with an entire team beating on it and it still scored the goal and had time to dance half a jig before dying.

 

You can't tell me thats right.

 

 

"i'm a battlemaster I can't be bad LOLNERDS"

 

So your problem with healers is they have a resolve bar which works when your team randomly throws stuns out.Plenty of other dps have no problem with killing healers or at least making them unable to heal anyone else which basically removes them and you from the game.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Ainew

[-sasori]

I'm not really someone that calls for individual class nerfs, I mean theres stuff I think its farked but I learn to deal with it.

 

Grav Round/Tracer Missile? Some people complain about that, I know how to deal with it, my interrupts and CC's can deal with people that use this one button wonder.

 

Assassins and Shadows I can generally deal with too. It can go either way. Guardians and Juggs can be hard to take down but I can get them down if I use my CD's right. Smugs and IA's that aren't heal spec'd I can deal with 50/50 sometimes they win if they get me when my hold breaker is on CD, sometimes I get them.

 

What I'm basically saying here is that its like....almost all the non-healing classes I feel like I'm on 50/50 footing with, and it can go either way depending on skill and luck and thats cool. But I just cannot put down a healer, Carbonite Spray, Quell, Electro-Dart....welp I'm on CD's...Quell again, welp, they healed and I get to start over.

 

You don't want to call out a nerf for classes, so you'd rather call out a nerf for a CLASSROLE?

 

Seriously all i see you complaining about is a Force Healer Classes.

 

Healers are currently the Omega Class.

You can't outheal Marauders. Especially with shockfrozen water exploit they wear you down. You can't do much against interrupt spamming with three healing skills which two have a huge cooldown.

 

We are canon fooder 1vs1 against DD specs. Stims, defense cooldowns and medpacks / Water heal pure DDs for more than one full hp bar. Basically we healers need to wear down 35k to 40k HP while dealing 500 to 1400 damage occasionally, because we HEAL ourselfs and need our resources for that.

 

 

If you can't down a healer you are either.

 

 

A. Outgeared

B. Don't use your burst and cc the right way.

 

A healer "heals" right? If you would bother to watch what HE heals and look at the class skills you should get an idea when to interrupt. This game even SHOWS you what i do cast.

[Shroudveil]

also this doesn't apply to operative/scoundrel healers

 

we have a complete lack of survivability compared to sorcs/mercs (sages/commandos).

 

so don't go blindly nerfing "healing done" but if you want to nerf healers nerf the survivability of those 2.

[SicNNasty]

I kill healers for breakfast.

 

The only time I don't get a healer alone is if he is guarded and healed else where.

 

1. Know when to interupt!

2. Know when to lie down the spike dammage!

3. If your a marauder: use your healing debuff.

 

If you still can't kill thm or are not a marauder, call a marauder friend to do the work for you!

[gtdead]

Even as a marauder it's not easy to solo a good sorc. It's not really about interrupts or keeping deadly on them, but sometimes my position doesnt register and I'm knocked back to somewhere that makes the fight reset. I'm staying on healers like a bear to the honey and usually I kill them, but a good and a bit lucky sorc/sage, naa, it will take me about 5 mins. It's supposed to be that way tho. A healer should be able to survive. Although sometimes there are these amusing situations where 2 healers just heal each other when I try to chase them away from the fight, thinking they are so pro kitting a noob battlemaster, and spam laugh at me, only to see me buffstacked 2shotting them after a while.

[Tristine]

Inrcedible stupid. Just go play a healer and have fun being the first to be focused. Everyone and their dog will try to kill you unless the enemy team is full of idiots (which is quite often the case...). Against premades or ppl that know how to play, a healer (without guard) is dead in 10 seconds flat.

[der_mawel]

i play dd and must say that healers are truly underpowered. a healer should not only be able to heal up against one dd, he shpuld be able heal easily up against one dd. this is fa from reality as a normal heal hits for 2k having a csttime of 2,5s. with my sentinel i always kill a healer, it may take long but evetually they have no chance against dps. its just stupid.

 

this is not only bad for healers but also dumbs down the gameplay as for most classes focused dmg is not neccesary to kill healed enemies. if there is focused dmg its pointless to heal because the dmg of two full dds is very very far from helable by one healer and often not healable for two healers due to dmg spikes and cc.

 

the 30% debuff has to be removed. why is it there anyway?

[PhoenixMatrix]

i play dd and must say that healers are truly underpowered. a healer should not only be able to heal up against one dd, he shpuld be able heal easily up against one dd. this is fa from reality as a normal heal hits for 2k having a csttime of 2,5s. with my sentinel i always kill a healer, it may take long but evetually they have no chance against dps. its just stupid.

 

this is not only bad for healers but also dumbs down the gameplay as for most classes focused dmg is not neccesary to kill healed enemies. if there is focused dmg its pointless to heal because the dmg of two full dds is very very far from helable by one healer and often not healable for two healers due to dmg spikes and cc.

 

the 30% debuff has to be removed. why is it there anyway?

 

 

I have only lost a single huttball game in the last 3 weeks or so. Won like 40 or something? Why? Because 1 healer can keep a well geared tank alive almost perpetually in pvp with 8 people wailing on him. If they turn around and go for the healer instead, guard + mass taunt means they're not killing them anytime soon, especially if its a commando/merc or to a lesser extent a scoudrel/operative. Remove that 30% debuff and tanks will never die.

 

And thats even though tanks are pretty "gimped" in PvP vs PvE because of how defense rating and shield barely ever proc. And even if we forget about tanks, trooper/BH healers would literally never die if they didnt have the debuff.

[navotjr]

I am a full healer, and if a team does not focus me, then I am alpha:)....I know immediately at first interaction the team skill level of whom we are playing against.

 

Team 1: The teams i like.....I heal unattended the whole first node without getting hit once. If I do it is a random player, who should not be able to kill me 1 v1 quickly anyways.

 

Team 2: I come up to node slightly out of LOS....and the main tanks skips the node, jumps on my head, two main dps follow suit and start dps, and I get interupts any time available to them. I then have two things happen, my team if I am not solo queing will address and try to give me time to escape, or the pug group ignores me and I die.

 

So, I am not alpha by anymeans.........the other team makes me invinceable, or they make the game challenging and tough, cause i am the objective at the node, not the node itself.

 

I have no problem giving this info out, cause in all my years of healing, it doesnt matter what I say, some people dont see the objective in game, to kill healers first, others do.

 

So in short, the opponent dictates whether I am unkillable, or whether I can be dealt with. If you expect to kill a healer by yourself that is unfair. Much like it would be unfair if I could kill a tank by myself.

 

True balance in any pvp setting cannot be attained, cause balance of classes only occurs when other people know how to deal with them. No class is unbeatable with team effort, if team is not aware of how to accomplish, that is their fault, not imbalance.