Lightzzoutt Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Some people do it at different times. I do it right when I get 30 stacks. Is it more effective to wait till you have burn stacks on the target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaaat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It's best to pop Zen when you have 3 stacks of OS, but popping before that doesn't hurt, it simply means you have less optimized DPS. For Combat specs I believe it's best to pop Zen when you have plenty of focus, Master Strike is on CD and Precision Slash is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightzzoutt Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 So having 3 stacks of overload will increase my dps? I'll give this a shot. I didn't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnnaRei Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I usually start OS during leap, then i do zealous strike, followed either with a leg slash for pvp, or strike in pve to build more focus, then for the final stack to apply I put on cauterize. That way both dots are fully applied and I can pop my zen then. I've noticed that in pvp my targets go down faster this way, and it should be a nice dps increase for pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGsam Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Also consider if you need the healing straight away (as opposed to maximum damage output) you can pop Zen before any bleeds and spam 3 AA's and a cauterize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurntSushi Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Pop Zen whenever you can. You are pretty much going to crit most of the time anyways, the main benefit of Zen is that you are healing your party for every crit. Generally speaking as a Watchmen spec, you build centering pretty quick. So use it liberally. Also try to keep Valorous Call on CD if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwrath Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I usually start OS during leap, then i do zealous strike, followed either with a leg slash for pvp, or strike in pve to build more focus, then for the final stack to apply I put on cauterize. That way both dots are fully applied and I can pop my zen then. I've noticed that in pvp my targets go down faster this way, and it should be a nice dps increase for pve. Here's a question: does zen apply to DOTs already on the target? Or does it have to be activated before using cauterize and overload sabre for it to work? I had always assumed it was the second case. (Like in WoW where you had to get mangle on the target before rip in order to get the benefit from mangle, for those of you who can relate to that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabbok Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes it does. If you get a triple stacked Overloaded Saber on someone and hit Zen, it'll be doing buttloads more damage, so that is generally the ideal time to hit it. Other acceptable times to hit Zen are if you really need the heals, or if you've got only 1 or 2 stacks, but your target escapes you somehow, then you can hit it to increase the damage as they are fleeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFirewind Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Some people do it at different times. I do it right when I get 30 stacks. Is it more effective to wait till you have burn stacks on the target? Basically you ideally want to pop it when there are 3 stacks of overload Sabre on the target but honestly it's situational. I've popped Zen with Cauterise ticking on a low health Sniper that hit me with the knockback and ran for it since I would have one shot him with Blade Storm if I got within 10 metres. Hanging onto it is generally a bad idea since any Force spenders and kills used after are wasting your overall Centering. It doesn't make much of a difference in Watchman spec though since you will be able to semi-spam Centering spending abilities. For that reason it is actually not a bad idea to pop Inspiration or Transendence if you don't need to use Zen to finish a target or you can't get a triple OS stack onto a target. It also has the added effect of massively buffing your entire party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwrath Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes it does. If you get a triple stacked Overloaded Saber on someone and hit Zen, it'll be doing buttloads more damage, so that is generally the ideal time to hit it. Other acceptable times to hit Zen are if you really need the heals, or if you've got only 1 or 2 stacks, but your target escapes you somehow, then you can hit it to increase the damage as they are fleeing. Awesome. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblackajah Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Don't listen to these folks. This is why there are so many baddie Sentinels... so much misinformation. Zen only lasts 6 stacks, not as a duration. It doesn't matter when you pop it, so long as you can have 6 dot ticks before the zen timer runs out. Because the timer is so long, and we're doing dots constantly anyways, then it really doesn't matter when you pop it. In fact, to maximize your DPS, you should pop it whenever it's available, so long as you're attacking the target actively. (e.g. not chasing him with no dots on him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribroo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Popping it when the burns are already on the target is better because you have more time to set up a second set of burns before the 6 stacks of berzerker run out. Actually it varies from fight to fight, if you know you're about to be sent flying, hit it after the burns are on. If you're 1v1 or something, dont bother just hit it early. Edited February 8, 2012 by Caribroo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaaat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Zen only lasts 6 stacks, not as a duration.False, Zen lasts both 6 stacks and has a duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblackajah Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 False, Zen lasts both 6 stacks and has a duration. Read the whole post and you'd realize I mentioned a duration. Once again, this is why we have baddie Sentinels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeetesSixFive Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So you want OS to eat up zen with only 1 stack of OS on...hmmm...I'm not math wiz but 3 stacks of OS and THEN Zen would crit for me. Hmm Math how do work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaaat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Read the whole post and you'd realize I mentioned a duration. Once again, this is why we have baddie Sentinels. Why would a good sentinal read your entire post if it starts with a false statement about a class ability. A "baddie sentinal" would continue reading it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taproot Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you are specced correctly, you should be building up 30 stacks of centering VERY FAST. I would recommend popping it as soon as its up, every time its up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeetesSixFive Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you are specced correctly, you should be building up 30 stacks of centering VERY FAST. I would recommend popping it as soon as its up, every time its up. No no and no. Yes you build it fast but you're gonna waste Zen stacks on 1 stack of Overload saber. Wait the 2 more gcds and then pop in with cauterize up. You get mad crits leading to higher DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taproot Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 No no and no. Yes you build it fast but you're gonna waste Zen stacks on 1 stack of Overload saber. Wait the 2 more gcds and then pop in with cauterize up. You get mad crits leading to higher DPS. Doesn't matter if cauterize is up, its 6 ticks, be it OS crits or caut crits. When you are spamming moves those OS stacks will build up quickly doesn't make sense to hold of using zen. The amount of time wasted at 30 stacks of centering, waiting for the right time to pop zen, you could have already popped it and built up 10-15 more stacks of centering! It's DEFINITELY better to pop zen as soon as possible all the time (unless you are out of combat or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If you're an amazing player you can optimize your play so that you're only popping Zen with 3 stacks of OS up. Of course, nobody is that good. You're better off just popping it whenever it's up(long as you got some kind of burn on the enemy that will last the six charges). Ideally though yes it'll be at 3 stacks of OS but with all the stuff we're already keeping track of on top of any encounter mechanics you have to watch out for(or general PVP stuff which requires a lot of situational awareness as well)it can be quite difficult to manage that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebmccown Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My favorite opening combo for Zen, if you already have 30 Centering built up: Force Leap, Inspiration, Valorous Call, Zen, Rakata Relic of Forbidden Secrets, Overload Saber, Zealous Strike, Cauterize, Merciless Slash and I usually finish up with Master Strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblackajah Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Doesn't matter if cauterize is up, its 6 ticks, be it OS crits or caut crits. When you are spamming moves those OS stacks will build up quickly doesn't make sense to hold of using zen. The amount of time wasted at 30 stacks of centering, waiting for the right time to pop zen, you could have already popped it and built up 10-15 more stacks of centering! It's DEFINITELY better to pop zen as soon as possible all the time (unless you are out of combat or something). FINALLY, someone who gets it. Why is it that no one else seems to realize Zen is 6 TICKS. It doesn't MATTER if you have 1 stack of dots or 3. And it also seems I need to spell this out: OS stacks tick separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldxLady Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) FINALLY, someone who gets it. Why is it that no one else seems to realize Zen is 6 TICKS. It doesn't MATTER if you have 1 stack of dots or 3. And it also seems I need to spell this out: OS stacks tick separately. Shhh, dont tell the noobs. The more bad players we have the bigger chance it is for a buff, that will make us Godlike ;p Edited February 9, 2012 by OldxLady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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