Dee-Jay Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Until Resilience was introduced into the world of Warcraft, PvP and PvE gear had coexisted with the same ruleset and were equally viable in very situation. PvP and PvE merely presented 2 progressions paths towards the same goal. However since "The Burning Crusade" it's become a more or less accepted rule that PvP and PvE gear have to exist under different, exclusive rulesets. I ask......why? PvPers will complain "I don't want Dragonslayers to have an advantage over me in PvP". But I ask, "isn't the fact that you PvP a lot and thus have superior class knowledge and PvP expertise enough of an advantage? After all, this is your chosen field of excellence?" PvEers will complain "We took months to acquire our gear. PvP gearing is sooo much easier..." But that just depends on the PvP progression system. Here's the gist of it. 1. PvP and PvE gear don't have to be separate. They can have the same stats and the same "value". 2. The key to a fair system is to make both equally hard to obtain...ergo equally exclusive. And this was where most systems in the past fell short. Typically, one progression system was much easier, less RNG dependent and less dependent on other players than the other, making it a far more popular way of attaining gear. But there is a solution. Because here's the problem: Say you have 3 extreme types of players, the hardcore PvP/PvE and the player who dabbles in both. Bear in mind, almost all players partake in some form of PvE while most players dabble in PvP at least occasionally. Each player plays the game for 4 hours each day. -The hardcore PvPler will progress at a steady rate. His gear improvements make him the top of his area. -The hardcore PvEler too will progress at a steady rate. His gear improvements make him top-notch in his area. -The mixer, who plays just as much as the other two, cannot excel in either area of the game, because he splits his time between both PvP and PvE. Why does this arbitrary separation exist? If both progression paths were equally challenging, shouldn't it be possible to abandon this distinction between PvP and PvE gear? Once patch 1.2 introduces rated Warzones we have a perfect tool for such a system. If Bioware's internal metrics show that 5% of all raiders raid Nightmare instances, then why not simply say the top 5% of the rated Warzone players have access to the same gear as the raiders have? Both parties worked hard t attain their status and both are equally exclusive. Does it really matter what path they took to get there? I don't believe it does. Allow us to progress our character in a way that suits our play-style instead of forcing us down one of two progression systems. PS: For those arguing about burst damage and numbers, those are just that, numbers. They can be changed, altered an adapted easily to follow new design paradigms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Wut? both paths equally as challenging, and how do you intend to measure the challenge of a human vs a.i. and a human vs a human in a hotkey mmo.. give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 People are claiming that high level pve gear has some traits that equalize it to pvp gear. I think its misinformation but... if it is not then that is actually kinda cool. different kinds of pvp play style create a sort of faction and or role in PvP... Subtle effects are sublime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangsoo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes they do need to be seperate, otherwise we would have raiders jumping into pvp with nothing more to do and vice versa. Earning 2 sets makes for a far fairer and more absorbing game. Less whine and more grind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Until Resilience was introduced into the world of Warcraft, PvP and PvE gear had coexisted with the same ruleset and were equally viable in very situation. PvP and PvE merely presented 2 progressions paths towards the same goal. I stopped reading here, as you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Rank 12-14 gear was a joke compared to BWL/AQ gear, and about on par with MC gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jargonaut Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I agree with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Until Resilience was introduced into the world of Warcraft, PvP and PvE gear had coexisted with the same ruleset and were equally viable in very situation. No, they weren't. My guild had BW Lair on farm, and AQ on farm when THAT came out. We CRUSHED people in PvP. It wasn't even funny. The gear wasn't even CLOSE to being close... Thanks for saving me the 90 seconds it would have taken to read your post. Edited February 8, 2012 by AntoniusDelitan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 No, they weren't. My guild had BW Lair on farm, and AQ on farm when THAT came out. We CRUSHED people in PvP. It wasn't even funny. The gear wasn't even CLOSE to being close... Thanks for saving me the 90 seconds it would have taken to read your post. Well then you might have actually understood my point. You earned your superior gear via your preferred form of progression. Gratz to you. You then used this gear in a PvP situation to your advantage. Working as intended. But you won, because you were good at PvP. There seems to be this sentiment hammered into people's minds that you have to be either a PvE or a PvP hero. This does not have to be the case as long as.... ...BOTH PROGRESSIONS PATHS ARE EQUALLY EXCLUSIVE. I really need to emphasize that part. Most people who fail to understand my point are still getting hooked on their old WoW mentality where one progression path was typically much easier and accessible to progress though (mostly PvP since BC). Imagine Rataka gear in SWTOR was only accessible to the top ~5% of PvP players as well as the top ~5% of raiders. How would this be an unfair situation? Surely the PvP heroes would win in a PvP situation since that's their chosen field of expertise while the Dragonslayers would win in their respective field, because that's their area of expertise. The separation between PvP and PvE progression is arbitrary and only exists because of WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Discussion is old, SWTOR is not going to be "innovating" outside the WoW formula. If that bugs you, probably best to just move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomroark Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 In short: The majority of accessible and good gear should be player crafted. This requires a fun and engaging crafting system, which Bioware failed to implement. The very rare, or at least much harder to obtain gear should be acquired from raiding or PvPing. This gear should have comparable stats, perhaps different looks. Or even better... tokens that you can turn in to a vendor to acquire the gear pieces you want. PvP gear should not be obtainable from Warzones/BGs/Arenas. These should be left out of the game completely since they get old and boring fast. Open World PvP that is objective based should be implemented. When players die, they drop tokens, x amount of tokens will allow you to turn them in to vendors. EQ2 had a similar system that worked fantastic. It had amazing World PvP in its prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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