Zarthorn Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It seems this thread is full of doom and gloom, how we got gutted, etc... But I really don't get it...nor do I understand where people are coming from either. My Scoundrel is still Scrapper spec, still able to solo most even con 2 man heroics and the occasional 4 man, I'm still a huge threat in PvP and usually work with friends to get the most out of my target elimination attempts. Prior to my Scoundrel, I played a Guardian to 50 and geared out in Champ, only gave up playing my Guardian because quite simply, Guardians are nothing more than a handicapped Vanguard if they try to tank (this is well known and they cannot even tank certain Operations bosses because they are very melee unfriendly) But yea, still enjoying my Scoundrel, still doing well for myself in PvE and PvP and still happy to call it my favorite class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darreke Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I still like my class... even tho i rerolled sawbone cause we needed an ops healer. And i have to say i'm doing a rocking job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I like my Scoundrel, I just find the massive disparity with ranged DPS classes very frustrating at times. I don't want to pretend that there aren't issues; I hope that by talking about the issues we're more likely to get a fix eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coximo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 First off let me just say that I typically avoid these boards as a whole because I do enjoy my class. These people confuse me with their attitudes. I have both an Operative and a Scoundrel and this "nerf" is simply not as big a deal as these forums would have you believe. Yeah, you lost some burst, but it was too high before and it needed to be fixed. Yes, you lost some sustained DPS. However, not one of these crying *** school boys has any numbers to back up their claims regarding the severity of this loss. There is no combat log and everything you're seeing here is based on player perception, "feel" if you will. Any comparisons between other classes is based on an even muddier subjective perception. Until you give me cold hard numbers, you can kiss the deepest darkest part of my rectum. Personally, I'm still killing plenty of people in PVP and my guild's runs are still successful with me doing DPS. And please, claim that I am being carried by superior guild mates and rest soundly knowing that I cannot provide any hard data to back up any rebuttal, you tool. The largest majority of Operatives and Scoundrels who enjoy their class are not wasting time competing with this wave of ignorant mob rage. Rabble, Rabble, Rabble, you gaggle of blithering goons. The class still rocks. Don't believe the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedijinchu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I only have a scoundrel as my toon. I'm lvl 32 n though I play pvp on occasion I love my class. I'm still playing with my tree build though so far i definitely am doing scrapper tree. I didn't pick this class for kicks of damage but I pick it cuz Han Solo is too damn smooth just like my toon. Being a smuggler is about being smart and picking ur battles. I have fought sorcerers but only with a partner or 2. It is what it is for now; maybe there b fix in the future. I'm not going to drop my toon. Just got to be a smarter player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exittium Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It seems this thread is full of doom and gloom, how we got gutted, etc... But I really don't get it...nor do I understand where people are coming from either. My Scoundrel is still Scrapper spec, still able to solo most even con 2 man heroics and the occasional 4 man, I'm still a huge threat in PvP and usually work with friends to get the most out of my target elimination attempts. Prior to my Scoundrel, I played a Guardian to 50 and geared out in Champ, only gave up playing my Guardian because quite simply, Guardians are nothing more than a handicapped Vanguard if they try to tank (this is well known and they cannot even tank certain Operations bosses because they are very melee unfriendly) But yea, still enjoying my Scoundrel, still doing well for myself in PvE and PvP and still happy to call it my favorite class. I'm loving mine, im dirfty fighting if u know what your doing in it.. it can be a blast, and just as effective as ooh say a watchman spec'd sentinel and I think its very very underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binafus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I love my Scoundrel I can own pretty much anyone 1v1. If you can't you just need to learn to play better. We are way more powerful any any other class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm loving mine, im dirfty fighting if u know what your doing in it.. it can be a blast, and just as effective as ooh say a watchman spec'd sentinel and I think its very very underrated. I think most people expected the WoW Rogue and being able to run around out of stealth stunlocking everything to death. What they actually got was the DaoC Infiltrator, insanely good at taking out marked targets, reliant on getting the opener to get the job done. Being that I used to play a RR10 Infiltrator, I absolutely fell in love with the class for giving me that feeling back and knowing... Death for a wannabie Palpatine is only a Shoot first away xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I love my Scoundrel I can own pretty much anyone 1v1. If you can't you just need to learn to play better. We are way more powerful any any other class. I can't loose either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flegg Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I'm loving mine, im dirfty fighting if u know what your doing in it.. it can be a blast, and just as effective as ooh say a watchman spec'd sentinel and I think its very very underrated. If you roll dirty fighting why didn't you just make a sniper then you'd never have to be in melee range (don't need upper hands)? Backstab spec is still viable. However sawbones is worse than trash in PVP and dirty fighting is ostensibly far better on gunslinger/sniper than it is on scoundrel Let's also not forget the fact that the imperial equivalent of dirty kick DOES not require stopping to balance on one *********** leg. Edited February 8, 2012 by flegg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahl_Windsong Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Actually I just watched a video made by a player who plays our Empire counterpart, the operative and the way he explains this new build in the video he madem he also talks about the scoundrel as well. With this build you use the Leathality tree, a fair bit of the concealment tree, and I think it was three points into the medicine tree. The way he made this build everytime your poison crits you gain 2 energy so it is almost impossible to run out of energy. What you do is hang back and act like a sniper until someone notices you then when they come over to take out a "sniper" you show them your concealment/scrapper abilities and maybe even surprise them but at the very least you get away to continue your sniping... A very clerver hybrid build Anyway here is a link to the video and it really is worth the watch... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=246242 Edited February 8, 2012 by Rahl_Windsong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brbchores Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Luckily I didn't hit 50 until after the patch, but I'm only 279 Expertise or so, and I still rock the entire enemy team. I love the shiz outta my scoundrel (still scrapper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This thread is rich... Look - we got boned because Sorcs/Sages were complaining - and they got what they wanted because for ever Scrapper/Concealer out there, there are at least 10 Sorcs/Sages... probably more. We weren't OP - we never were. In the 1-49 range, we topped the charts if we played well... EVERY class does that on a regular basis. In the 50 bracket, if we had gear, we could own people who didn't. If we didn't have gear - we got owned, just like everyone else. The nerf was totally uncalled for. Why would we need to be nerfed, if these classes were going to be buffed anyway? I realize people like to come onto these boards and pretend like nothing is wrong, and pretend like they're just the best Players of any particular class ever, and anyone who has problems doesn't know how to play - but that just isn't the case. The fact of the matter is - we were nerfed because we were killing an obviously "underpowered" class ,which got a buff not one week later, too quickly. They should have just buffed those classes, and left the nerfs alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binafus Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Scoundrels are by far the best class Scrapper build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarthorn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 This thread is rich... Look - we got boned because Sorcs/Sages were complaining - and they got what they wanted because for ever Scrapper/Concealer out there, there are at least 10 Sorcs/Sages... probably more. We weren't OP - we never were. In the 1-49 range, we topped the charts if we played well... EVERY class does that on a regular basis. In the 50 bracket, if we had gear, we could own people who didn't. If we didn't have gear - we got owned, just like everyone else. The nerf was totally uncalled for. Why would we need to be nerfed, if these classes were going to be buffed anyway? I realize people like to come onto these boards and pretend like nothing is wrong, and pretend like they're just the best Players of any particular class ever, and anyone who has problems doesn't know how to play - but that just isn't the case. The fact of the matter is - we were nerfed because we were killing an obviously "underpowered" class ,which got a buff not one week later, too quickly. They should have just buffed those classes, and left the nerfs alone. Here's the thing.... I have been PvP'ing with my Scoundrel since early teens, winning more WZ's than losses and usually ending up with plenty of medals, plenty of objective points a good K/D ratio and usually in the top 3 damage (not too shabby for mostly single target damage) This was waaaaay before I picked up Shoot first and Flechette Round, when I got those (prepatch) I noticed myself that the abilties were a little too much. If I scored a crit Shoot first w Flechette followed by a back blast pre-patch, target was all but dead...4 medals for an opening kill in some cases (5k, 2.5k, Assassin and Killing blow medal in one go) no secrets, it was over the top. We still kill people excessively well, clothies and medium armor targets can be stunlocked to death, heavies close to...(I think this will probably change when Bioware fixes resolve and introduces diminishing returns and rightfully so). Remember, you are a fight...Finisher, not a fight starter, your job is simple: -Elimination of Healers or Soft Targets -Finishing off low hp targets and runners -Protection of back lines (guarding your healer, etc) -Melee damage target assister (if going melee train style) -Locking down potentially risky targets for focus fire (CC, interupts) You are not: -A Fight opener, that's a Tanks job -A Combat Rogue, they are in WoW -A meatshield, your mitigation is terrible Again, please realise We are Not a Tank, We are Not a Combat Rogue and We certainly don't start fights.... But we can certainly pick them and finish them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Here's the thing.... I have been PvP'ing with my Scoundrel since early teens, winning more WZ's than losses and usually ending up with plenty of medals, plenty of objective points a good K/D ratio and usually in the top 3 damage (not too shabby for mostly single target damage) This was waaaaay before I picked up Shoot first and Flechette Round, when I got those (prepatch) I noticed myself that the abilties were a little too much. If I scored a crit Shoot first w Flechette followed by a back blast pre-patch, target was all but dead...4 medals for an opening kill in some cases (5k, 2.5k, Assassin and Killing blow medal in one go) no secrets, it was over the top. We still kill people excessively well, clothies and medium armor targets can be stunlocked to death, heavies close to...(I think this will probably change when Bioware fixes resolve and introduces diminishing returns and rightfully so). Remember, you are a fight...Finisher, not a fight starter, your job is simple: -Elimination of Healers or Soft Targets -Finishing off low hp targets and runners -Protection of back lines (guarding your healer, etc) -Melee damage target assister (if going melee train style) -Locking down potentially risky targets for focus fire (CC, interupts) You are not: -A Fight opener, that's a Tanks job -A Combat Rogue, they are in WoW -A meatshield, your mitigation is terrible Again, please realise We are Not a Tank, We are Not a Combat Rogue and We certainly don't start fights.... But we can certainly pick them and finish them! I see... So... we are one trick ponies? Great! At least you admit it. Our one trick was working too well? Fine. But now our one trick is equalized to everyone else's. Cool - I'm fine with that. The difference is... they have three or four tricks - all of them eqaully normalized - all of them, we have no way to counter. Our one trick worked well to make up for the fact that we had nothing to fall back on. Our problem isn't that our trick was nerfed. Our problem is it's the only thing we had/have. We were so powerful because that's all we had. It wasn't hard to exploit it even then. The holes we have now in our offense, were present even then. The difference is, we could produce results then, whereas now... we can finish a fight that's already won? People used to fear us because they knew we could devastate them if they weren't careful. They were careful - BECAUSE of us. They had a right to fear us - because they were also afraid of the other classes just the same. Now... they just laugh at us. They do. They laugh, because our rotation strategy is easily broken (just as easy as it has always been), and once it is broken, they know we don't have a leg to stand on. All they have to do is lean. Now - I admit... you have lots of options if you do a hybrid build... but that sort of undermines the reason to even bother investing into a whole tree... don't you think? Of course, this doesn't even get into the differential that Gear provides. This exacerbates things to a phenomenal degree. I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy the fact that I play a class that my team could do without. I don't enjoy the fact that my team would rather have any other class than mine, simply because it can do anything I can do, better, and then some. I don't understand why anyone would think this is "cool" and "fun" and "balanced". It doesn't make sense. Don't mistake what I am saying... I love the class. I love the mechanics of it. But I don't love the fact that BW gutted my one trick, and then expected me to "deal with it." It's like they want the other classes to get revenge or something. Like we had anything to do with how well their sloppy design was "working better than intended." We played the class they gave us. Then they suddenly change it after months and months of Beta Testing? No. We are not and never were a "fight finisher." We were a Rogue... in the sense that we did things that changed the tide of the battle. We did the one thing that no one else could do - which is why that was ALL we could do. Now, because that function is gone, WZ's and Ilum boil down to "who has the most heals." This is the very fact of how a Trinity works. A trinity works because it supposes that all classes can die - even if they are tanks. You win, because they can die, dictated by the fact that there must be a victory achievement. And to kill the class, you need to apply a certain amount of DPS. However, in defense of that, you have Heals. We counter-balanced that. Suddenly, that is gone - and now you have an over-abundance of heals. We don't matter now, because our function has "changed" to be something that already exists and is performed better by everyone else. We achieved similar results compared to every other class before the nerf. As a group we achieved similar results to any other group. We were nerfed because people who were new to the game, didn't have the know-how and the experience to deal with it. The nerf happened in 5 weeks of research which stated the complete opposite of years of testing. Our class passed through years of design, years of alpha testing, months/years of beta testing... and suddenly, when there is a surge of over-whelming numbers of a particular class that is our design's primary target... we're broken? Please. Stop defending this bogus crap that we're supposed to be "fight finishers." If we were supposed to do that - we would have been that from the word go. We were designed to be "game changers" which facilitates and defines the word "Rogue." We did things that helped the team win in ways contrary to any other class. We were the Queens on a chess board designed to kill everything else if used correctly, so that the Knights, Rooks, Pawns, and Bishopss, could take out the King. But we could be defeated very easily if we weren't careful. We were important because of our power. Now we are unimportant, because of our lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I still like him, but took a break, and play my Vanguard for a bit now (love Harpoon), but surely will play my Smuggler alongside. Did try a few Warzones with him, and was still satisfactory. But yes, i took the Smuggler-Class for being one (still the coolest Lines) not for any Operations, Group or Warzone Role. Edited February 8, 2012 by Kheldras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Findulidas Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, the class is cool, I like it and its fine. Please roll something else already if you dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darreke Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I see... QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ I CANT INSTAGIB ANYBODY ANYMORE QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ That about it ? We aren't balanced atm, they nurfed us a little too hard, but we were OP before the nurf, something had to be done. If only the complainers and the "rouge" kids would reroll maurauder i heared they are good... then i would get some peace and quiet time in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iFruit Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 However sawbones is worse than trash in PVP Sir, that is a load of poppycock. Only very skilled Sage/Sorc outheal me on WZ, and then not more than by 10 k. Straighten your hands out or reroll Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, the class is cool, I like it and its fine. Please roll something else already if you dont. Look - I don't dislike the class. I love it. I love playing it. But that doesn't mean I don't see the holes in its design, and it doesn't mean I can't talk about them. I also love red-meat. I love to eat Rib-Eye steak. But that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the health risks involved with eating too much of it. What I don't like is the behavior toward the class, and I don't like how it has been mistreated and mishandled. And I don't like the passive emasculated behavior of defending such treatment. Rolling something else is not the answer. Debunking the myth that it is "fine" and QQing like everyone did to get it nerfed in the first place - is. At least for me. Will it resolve anything? Probably not... but at some point in time, they're going to have to buff it in some manner or another. They'll have to. And when that comes - at least I'll be able to say "I told you so." So no... I won't reroll, and I won't shut-up. Thanks attempting to imply that my point of view doesn't matter. Since we are both equally valid - I presume you acknowledge that yours doesn't either. Or maybe you don't... which technically means you're an elitist... which means you don't matter in a rational sense, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raice Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That about it ? We aren't balanced atm, they nurfed us a little too hard, but we were OP before the nurf, something had to be done. If only the complainers and the "rouge" kids would reroll maurauder i heared they are good... then i would get some peace and quiet time in here. We weren't OP. The other classes (which were the ones claiming we were OP in the first place) were UNDER-powered in some respects. How do we know this? Because they got buffed. Problem solved. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiviolence Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Sir, that is a load of poppycock. Only very skilled Sage/Sorc outheal me on WZ, and then not more than by 10 k. Straighten your hands out or reroll Sage WZ scoreboards is a terrible way to gauge the effectiveness of your class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvershadez Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'm still happy too. Though some additional utility (like sprint, knockback ...) wouldn't hurt to make us more viable in huttball or to catch up with the runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darreke Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 We weren't OP. The other classes (which were the ones claiming we were OP in the first place) were UNDER-powered in some respects. How do we know this? Because they got buffed. Problem solved. Next? lmao, did you ever tried pvping before the nurf with a certain amount of expertise gear ? We were definitly OP. Oh wait, it's normal to destroy other players in seconds in your opinion. Keep in mind that I never said other classes are balanced. Haven't tried out the scrapper build lately cause i'm buzy healing in hardmode operations, but from what i've seen in pvp it looks they toned us down nicely I still can get 3K shoot first and back blasts as a sawbone and upwards to 90-100K damage and 150-200K healing on a good match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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