Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Ethern]

A cross-server tool is not the fix-all for all issues. People think it's some kind of magic solution that will fix everything. It's not. It can fix some issues, but it will not fix others.

 

If the problem is lack of healers/tanks across all servers, then it will not help at all. If the problem is lack of tanks on one server, and surplus of tanks on another, then it would help. So it depends what issue they want to fix.

 

I would prefer BW starts simple. Implement a simple LFG tool with some functions, and then add functions AS NEEDED. Adding a bunch of functions randomly in the hope to fix something can break more things than intended...

The trinity related problems are for another topic. The dual speccing that is announced will help to adress that...partially.

 

The main goal for the cross server LFG tool is to increase the reachable pool of players. Its effects will particularly be noticed on low population servers. I honestly think that the tool will work magically for that issue.

[Jagax]

Basically lfg tools are for lazy gits who can't be bothered to make enough friends on a server to group up with regularly.

Those and the annoying people who generally behave like jerks who want it because they won't have to bother about any sort of reputation since the LFG-tool will automatically get them a group.

[MajikMyst]

Actually in wow /ignore does work cross server!

 

Unless it has been changed.. No.. It does not work cross server because people on different servers can have the same name.. They might have made it so people can ignore by their real ID, but I doubt it.. That would require getting someone's email address without them knowing and without their permission..

 

So.. I'm sorry.. /ignore does not work cross server in WOW..

[Ethern]

Basically lfg tools are for lazy gits who can't be bothered to make enough friends on a server to group up with regularly.

Those and the annoying people who generally behave like jerks who want it because they won't have to bother about any sort of reputation since the LFG-tool will automatically get them a group.

That's not a constructive opinion. That's an insult. Where are the mods?

[MajikMyst]

Cross-server dungeon finder should be their TOP priority along with the bug fixes for HM's and Operations.

It should cover the entry level Operations too.

 

The end-game situation is seriously bad currently.

 

An LFG system isn't going to do anything to fix the end game situation.. Believe it or not, there is still a lot of people that haven't reached 50 yet.. So end game is suffering because not everyone reaches 50 at the same time..

 

An LFG system has it's own bad side that some people seem quick to ignore.. There is no meaningful way to take care of Ninja looters.. It was so bad in WOW that it almost made grouping in that manner a complete waste of time.. Unless you were one of the few that was graced with good roll luck.. I hated it when some moron would need on something and then disconnected the second they won.. They knew what they were doing.. But it didn't matter they were on a different server.. At least people on your own server can be held accountable.. Word gets out that you are a ninja looter and nobody wants to group with you.. That is accountability..

 

Finding groups is still an issue for some people.. At least in WOW, tanks got groups almost instantly, healers were 10 to 20 minutes tops, and DPS could still take up to 2 hours or more.. So for DPS what is the point?? It never took me 2 hours to find a group or put one together as DPS by spamming trade chat.. I also had better control over the types of healers or tanks I got.. You lose that control with the LFG system.. So it has it's draw backs..

 

In some ways it creates more problems than it is worth.. No.. It should not be a priority.. If it is never added, this game won't suffer much.. I find it odd that people want so much customization in this game, but want absolutely none when it comes to who they run with and the types of characters they want in their groups.. That makes no sense to me.. I would prefer to run with people on my server.. I can keep track as to who is ok to run with and who isn't..

 

Server population?? Well?? Remember all those threads you all started about the server queues?? This is what happens when you can't just wait it out and let things settle down.. Now there are to many servers up.. Hopefully Bioware can merge a few or allow server changes to allow people the freedom to move.. It could also help faction balance on a few servers..

 

The LFG system already in the game works just fine.. People just need to learn how to use it.. Or more accurately, use it period..

[Ethern]

An LFG system isn't going to do anything to fix the end game situation.. Believe it or not, there is still a lot of people that haven't reached 50 yet.. So end game is suffering because not everyone reaches 50 at the same time..

Today it's endgame? When the majority will be level 50, guess which level brackets are going to suffer? A cross server LFG tool is needed constantly.

 

An LFG system has it's own bad side that some people seem quick to ignore.. There is no meaningful way to take care of Ninja looters.. It was so bad in WOW that it almost made grouping in that manner a complete waste of time.. Unless you were one of the few that was graced with good roll luck.. I hated it when some moron would need on something and then disconnected the second they won.. They knew what they were doing.. But it didn't matter they were on a different server.. At least people on your own server can be held accountable.. Word gets out that you are a ninja looter and nobody wants to group with you.. That is accountability..

There are easy fixes. Go read the first page. In addition, you have to grey out the rolling on items that yoru character can't wear among many others.

 

Finding groups is still an issue for some people.. At least in WOW, tanks got groups almost instantly, healers were 10 to 20 minutes tops, and DPS could still take up to 2 hours or more.. So for DPS what is the point?? It never took me 2 hours to find a group or put one together as DPS by spamming trade chat.. I also had better control over the types of healers or tanks I got.. You lose that control with the LFG system.. So it has it's draw backs..

That's a trinity related problem. Different fruits, different topics.

 

In some ways it creates more problems than it is worth.. No.. It should not be a priority.. If it is never added, this game won't suffer much.. I find it odd that people want so much customization in this game, but want absolutely none when it comes to who they run with and the types of characters they want in their groups.. That makes no sense to me.. I would prefer to run with people on my server.. I can keep track as to who is ok to run with and who isn't..

It only creates the problems you made up. Since you have zero proofs, we all know how credible this LFG tool = the pandora box stance is.

 

Server population?? Well?? Remember all those threads you all started about the server queues?? This is what happens when you can't just wait it out and let things settle down.. Now there are to many servers up.. Hopefully Bioware can merge a few or allow server changes to allow people the freedom to move.. It could also help faction balance on a few servers..

Free transfers are announced. That won't solve the problem for people who have weird schedules, play at odd hours, etc. That's so reductive.

 

The LFG system already in the game works just fine.. People just need to learn how to use it.. Or more accurately, use it period..

Nonsense. The current LFG work so fine that everybody uses it, and that zero threads asking for a cross server LFG tool have been created. Oh wait...

[MajikMyst]

Today it's endgame? When the majority will be level 50, guess which level brackets are going to suffer? A cross server LFG tool is needed constantly..

 

And the point to this statement is?? Or are we all just going to have to take your word for it??

 

WOW has an LFG system and I believe it has had a negative impact on the community.. It certianly didn't fix anything for everyone..

 

It only creates the problems you made up. Since you have zero proofs, we all know how credible this LFG tool = the pandora box stance is.

 

Exactly what are you talking about that I made up?? You may think you know, but there is a lot of people in these LFG threads that played WOW are concerned about the same issues I am.. You talk about proof, yet offer none of your own.. Do us all a favor and just speak for yourself and what you know..

 

I like many other have played WOW for years.. The LFG system they had wasn't all that and a bag of chips.. It certianly wasn't the holy grails of fixing servers and creating groups.. That is just the facts of the situation..

 

You most certianly do not have to agree.. That doesn't however make my post wrong..

Edited February 11, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Ethern]

And the point to this statement is?? Or are we all just going to have to take your word for??

 

WOW has an LFG system and I believe it has had a negative impact on the community.. It certianly didn't fix anything for everyone..

I return you your statement. Do we have to take your word for it that the LFG has a negative impact on the community? When it has been proven thousands times that it is complete BS?

 

The point of mine is that when a server is mature and the majority of players is level 50, the low levels will struggle to find groups. The cross server LFG will help them.

 

Exactly what are you talking about that I made up?? You may think you know, but there is a lot of people in these LFG threads that played WOW are concerned about the same issues I am.. You talk about proof, yet offer none of your own.. Do us all a favor and just speak for yourself and what you know..

 

I like many other have played WOW for years.. The LFG system they had wasn't all that and a bag of chips.. It certianly wasn't the holy grails of fixing servers and creating groups.. That is just the facts of the situation..

There are many players who have played WoW and other MMOs, experienced a LFG and claim the contrary of what you say.

Since you claim that the LFG has negative impacts, the burden of proofs is yours. I don't make such blank statements, I have nothing to prove. L2 argue.

 

You most certianly do not have to agree.. That doesn't however make my post wrong..

Your post is wrong since deprived of any objective argumentation.

 

And finally I take it that you can't respond on the other points... Thanks for playing.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ethern

[MajikMyst]

I return you your statement. Do we have to take your word for it that the LFG has a negative impact on the community?

 

You started this proof thing.. If you can't live with your own cooking then stay out of the kitchen..

 

As I said, feel free to read other posts in this one and other threads on this topic.. I am not the only one that feels this way.. You are however the only one demanding proof from those around you, but unwilling to back your claims with at least simple logic..

[Ethern]

You started this proof thing.. If you can't live with your own cooking then stay out of the kitchen..

 

As I said, feel free to read other posts in this one and other threads on this topic.. I am not the only one that feels this way.. You are however the only one demanding proof from those around you, but unwilling to back your claims with at least simple logic..

You claim that the LFG has negative impacts. I make zero claims. The burden of proof lies on you. That's simple logic.

Either you demonstrate those negative impacts, either your statement has zero value.

[Sendrel]

Unless it has been changed.. No.. It does not work cross server because people on different servers can have the same name.. They might have made it so people can ignore by their real ID, but I doubt it.. That would require getting someone's email address without them knowing and without their permission..

 

So.. I'm sorry.. /ignore does not work cross server in WOW..

 

Ignore absolutely works cross server. It ignores playername@server. Its worked that way since its inception.

[Nitewolfe]

Unless it has been changed.. No.. It does not work cross server because people on different servers can have the same name.. They might have made it so people can ignore by their real ID, but I doubt it.. That would require getting someone's email address without them knowing and without their permission..

 

So.. I'm sorry.. /ignore does not work cross server in WOW..

 

I just checked /ignore works fine cross server in wow. It has worked just fine in wow for a long time now way before cata.

I highly suspect user error if its not working for you. /ignore <playername>@<server name>

[MaddenMan]

I haven't chimed in on this topic yet so I will. Yes this game needs a Looking for Flashpoint finder no doubt. However playing on Keller's Void with AIE is a LFF in itself - still however sometimes it takes 30-45 mins to get a group of 4 to run something - which imo a LFF system would help "plug the party member hole".

[BlueSkittles]

I haven't heard anything official since the design phase comment. But today I found another bone in a podcast transcript of an interview with Stephen Reid:

 

Quote:

Simon – Any plans for an LFG tool?

SR: Definitely being looked at including cross-server Flashpoint tool. Definitely wanting to do.

 

Source: http://toroz.com.au/2012/02/stephen-reid-qa-summary-transcript/

 

Holy **** amazing find Nep!!! Just wondering if "Definitely wanting to do." just means about adding a new LFG tool or "definitely" wanting to have cross-server.

 

Holy **** /thread

 

Thanks for the message Touch!

 

I definitely won't stop on this thread until we get an official announcement that they are 100% creating a cross-server tool. But each of these little hints from devs are freaking amazing. Feels like all of our effort might actually be paying off and the devs might actually be listening. (That and they're actually playing their own game in real world conditions in which finding an actual group for a Flashpoint is a freaking pain in the ***)

Edited February 11, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[BlueSkittles]

Actually listened to the podcast and the quote wasn't quite correct, here is closer to what Stephen said:

 

"There's definitely some improvements going in on the looking for group side and along the term there are other thoughts about potentially, for example, cross server flashpoint finder or something similar. So it's being looked at. Definitely something we want to do.

 

I think, speaking very personally, I quite like to see, those LFG messages scrolling across. Shows you there are other people on the server and shows you that there are people willing to get together and team up. But we know there are ways that we can improve that and that's something that's being looked at for sure."

 

So not really a "we're definitely going to be adding cross-server". Just more like, again, we're looking into it. ******. And don't like how Stephen "likes seeing" the LFG messages. Kinda out of touch about WHY we see so many *********** LFG messages.

Edited February 11, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[Meldwyn]

He said a lot, to say nothing... "looking in to" = "taking under advisement" Might put it in, might not...

 

They are playing with words so as to appease both crowds. Unfortunately for them, one crowd is going to get smaller and smaller as time goes by without one!

[MajikMyst]

You claim that the LFG has negative impacts. I make zero claims. The burden of proof lies on you. That's simple logic.

Either you demonstrate those negative impacts, either your statement has zero value.

 

Oh looky!!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=293015

 

Enjoy the read!!

[MajikMyst]

I just checked /ignore works fine cross server in wow. It has worked just fine in wow for a long time now way before cata.

I highly suspect user error if its not working for you. /ignore <playername>@<server name>

 

I am glad it works now.. It didn't always work as I did try it a number of times during Lich King's prime.. So it hasn't always worked.. I also doubt that someone who has played that game for 4 years is going to have issues with /ignore.. You are simply wrong..

 

And you just proved you were wrong in your own post..

 

/ignore is different from /ignore <playername>@<server name>

 

When was the second command added?? Have a nice day..

 

Past changes Edit

 

Patch 3.3.0 (2009-12-08): The amount of characters a person can ignore has been increased to 50. In addition, players on other realms can be placed on the Ignore list.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ignore

 

So much for it always being there eh?? Again, have a nice day..

Edited February 11, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Umbral]

When they implement the cross-server LFG tool, myself, and 8 guild members that have quit playing because of the pain it is finding groups will be re-subscribing. Not having one in the game at release was the single biggest mistake Bioware made with SWTOR.

 

We won't re-sub until it's in the game though. Too many empty promises already made from Bioware.

[MajikMyst]

Ignore absolutely works cross server. It ignores playername@server. Its worked that way since its inception.

 

That isn't /ignore now is it??

 

And it didn't always work which is my point!! I am totally and 100% correct.. It was added in patch 3.3 as per above.. So it wasn't always in the game.. Which means it didn't always work..

 

AS I said, unless it has been changed.. Which nobody seems to have read.. If it has been changed.. Fine.. But don't make like it has always been that way.. Some of us have played WOW since raids were with 40 peeps.. Yes it is true.. Raids actually used 40 peeps at one point..

[BlueSkittles]

That isn't /ignore now is it??

 

And it didn't always work which is my point!! I am totally and 100% correct.. It was added in patch 3.3 as per above.. So it wasn't always in the game.. Which means it didn't always work..

 

AS I said, unless it has been changed.. Which nobody seems to have read.. If it has been changed.. Fine.. But don't make like it has always been that way.. Some of us have played WOW since raids were with 40 peeps.. Yes it is true.. Raids actually used 40 peeps at one point..

 

And since the LFD tool didn't become cross-server until that exact same patch, you are 100% wrong. I'm sure the other posters were saying that cross-server /ignore has always been there for cross-server LFD, not always in the history of the universe. And who needed a cross-server /ignore if there was not a cross-server LFD tool? Maybe for battlegrounds but that is not the subject of this thread.

 

http://www.wowpedia.org/Looking_for_group#History

 

And that other thread you linked is full of other people like you saying community is going to die, with absolutely no proof that WoW's LFD killed it, nor that a potential LFF will kill SWTOR's.

 

Edit to add: Why the **** am I addressing the trolls. Oh yeah, I am so *********** bored without being able to run Flashpoints, that I have to sit on these boards and defend a system that has revolutionized WoW and is being added to other modern MMO's. /endrant /ignore-trolls-again

Edited February 11, 2012 by BlueSkittles

[darkcerb]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Ignore

 

So much for it always being there eh?? Again, have a nice day..

 

But now it is...now it's the new standard.

 

Do you live in a dream world where each game is completely isolated from each other?

 

Where games never change and never learn from one another?

 

Your arguments against a lfg tool are void the moment it's an optional service.

 

The community you speak of just doesn't exist on a server level anymore if it ever did and as an mmo player from eq to now with almost everything in between I've yet to see it.

 

It's always been in your guild and mind.

 

As for immersion another common argument I ask you, what is so immersing about hours of spamming a lfg channel on a pretty version of a lobby screen when you could be qued and talking about anything you want or do anything you want?

 

And no the 10 mins of walking through identical hallways to get to an instance doesn't make you or the game better.

[Hoghren]

Just spent 2 hours to get a 4th player :\ no one around and the group disbanned /ragequit

[Ethern]

Oh looky!!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=293015

 

Enjoy the read!!

This thread compiles feelings and not facts. If you had read both iterations of this thread, you would have know that those feelings are mainly due to other factors other than the LFG tool.

That the tool increased the pool of the players and thus the profiles, including the ones not wanting to go on a facebook chat session, and only doing the FP.

 

1- someone linked that the numbers of subscribers actually increased after the LFG implementation.

 

2- a tool that concerns the recruitment phase for the PvE group content cannot destroy a community comprised of

- solo PvEers

- PvPers

- group PvEers not using the tool

- crafters

- explorers

- RP'ers

- etc

 

3- The tool does not disable:

- the chat spam

- the whispering

- the emotes

- etc

So L2 socialize outside of group content. If your socialization is deteriorating, it's because you are too lazy to interact with people without being grouped with them in the first place.

Besides socialization is not required or mandatory to do a mere flashpoint.

 

4- the lack of LFD tool makes low population servers a nightmare to form groups on.

 

5- Do we need to continue, or you and others will stay firm on their childish stance wanting that the LFG tool is bad and destroys everything?

[Lerthan]

This thread compiles feelings and not facts. If you had read both iterations of this thread, you would have know that those feelings are mainly due to other factors other than the LFG tool.

That the tool increased the pool of the players and thus the profiles, including the ones not wanting to go on a facebook chat session, and only doing the FP.

 

1- someone linked that the numbers of subscribers actually increased after the LFG implementation.

 

2- a tool that concerns the recruitment phase for the PvE group content cannot destroy a community comprised of

- solo PvEers

- PvPers

- group PvEers not using the tool

- crafters

- explorers

- RP'ers

- etc

 

3- The tool does not disable:

- the chat spam

- the whispering

- the emotes

- etc

So L2 socialize outside of group content. If your socialization is deteriorating, it's because you are too lazy to interact with people without being grouped with them in the first place.

Besides socialization is not required or mandatory to do a mere flashpoint.

 

4- the lack of LFD tool makes low population servers a nightmare to form groups on.

 

5- Do we need to continue, or you and others will stay firm on their childish stance wanting that the LFG tool is bad and destroys everything?

 

To point 5, are you going to continue to argue and fight with these folks instead of actually working to create a system that resolves the issues they bring up while still getting an LFG tool that works?

 

The other thing is, a Cross-server LFG tool in no way resolves the other issues that an LFG tool needs to.

 

You will still have to spam chat to get groups for heroics and operations.

 

You will be forced to group with players you don't want to. Even if you ignore them, you may not have to talk to them but they are still allowed to grouped with you.

 

Fostering an environment where D-Bag play is encouraged due to the lack of consequences for such play.

 

Lack of other means for players to put together groups that don't want to use the random LFG tool.

 

Can there be a system that address all these factors while still providing the functionality that the Random LFG tool does? Why yes yes there can.

 

 

Two systems, one that randomly throws folks together. This system needs to take into account player choice by either A. Allowing players at the end of the instance to say I want to group with this guy again or no I don't. If you say no I don't then you are not grouped with that player anymore. (aka the /ignore but now it works cross server as well) or by showing the players who they are being grouped with and allowing the option to either opt out of the group or Majority rules vote kick the other player. ( I prefer option A personally)

 

System 2, works hand in hand with system 1. A system where you can select the flashpoints/operations/heroics on planets that you want to run and the role you fill. You are then placed in an LFG channel and you can see the others on the list and form your groups this way. It allows the players that don't want to use the Random system something else to use. It allows you to put together groups for the heroics on the planets. It gives the new players a chance to interact in a group setting with the other players and make those contacts they will need to get into the guild that fits them. This system can also work cross server as well btw at least for the Flashpoints.

 

Both systems working together provides a variety of effects. First and foremost the population is allowed to govern its self. If 90% of the population does not want to group with a player now there not forced to. This encourages players to not be D-Bags as there is a consequence if they are. It allows those who do not want to use the random system another tool to use other then spamming chat and sitting in fleet for hours trying to put together a group. It provides that much needed way to form groups for things other then flashpoints.

 

 

That system right there resolves the issues that players are bringing up, while still providing everything that the LFG tools need to.