Help me be a better Shadow.

[Kitru]

alacritty is equivelnt to haste bottom line . by the way my feelings are not hurt just giving accurate information and not conjecture, again one day on a spec doesnt make one an expert . Infact I do not consider anyone to be an "expert" on such a new class and game.

 

As I have said time and time before, alacrity has *no* effect on anything except for a cast bar. Stating that you're giving accurate information when you're not doing anything of the kind is less than worthless since, rather than having people that are uninformed, you're making sure that people are *misinformed*. Your preconceived notions about stats may be accurate for *other* games where the given stats behave in a different manner, but when the stats operate in a fundamentally different way (namely, by not affecting the GCD or anything that else that benefits those that don't cast), those preconceived notions and ideas of how the given stats operate are worthless.

 

The fact that you encourage people to experiment when it's pretty obvious that, even if you *do* experiment, you're not able to actually draw accurate conclusions (as evidenced by your fundamentally flawed interpretation of alacrity that you would have realized if you had actually experimented with it), is laudable, but the entire point of asking for information from other people is to benefit from the experimentation and analysis that other people have already done. Encouraging experimentation and analysis are all well and good, but experimenting with something that someone else has already done so with only serves to verify the given information. There's no point in *everyone* experimenting with stats when there are already a number of people that have done the given experimentation and analysis and come to the conclusions that people want, namely what the appropriate prioritization is.

 

Secondly, the game has been out for a month and a half now and was in beta for a *long* time before that. That's more than enough time for any number of people to have learned the ins-and-outs of the class and the game, especially when the game was designed with simplicity in mind (if you don't understand this, you *really* have no idea about the underlying mechanics of the game). The fact that you have no clue what you're talking about has no bearing on whether *other* people do, especially when you aren't even able to follow through on your own advice (which, if you actually paid attention, those of us that are giving the accurate advice *have* done and been verified independently). The knowledge base of this game is *huge*. It's your own fault for not realizing it's there.

[eldisper]

edit support is now handaling Edited February 8, 2012 by eldisper
removed wording , suppoty is handaling

[eldisper]

this is the definition of alacritty per bioware reduces the time needed to activate or chanel abilities, so they can be executed more quickly.

some additional thoughts posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaVolpex

the point is, you are capped by energy/force/ammo/whatever your resource is

 

all allacrity does is allow you to cast your spells faster, and thus, run out of energy faster, but in the end, it does not increase your healing/damage because you will have done the exact same amount of damage as without alacrity given that you will run out of energy faster but casting the same amount of spells as without alacrity....get it?

 

 

TLDR: alacrity wont help anyone until it also increases energy regeneration rates and/or reduces global cooldown

 

It certainly does increase your HPS and DPS with certain classes. Just because you don't understand basic combat mechanics doesn't mean it's broken or not working.

Edited February 8, 2012 by eldisper

[eldisper]

harrasment reported enough.

[Natuli]

this is the definition of alacritty per bioware reduces the time needed to activate or chanel abilities, so they can be executed more quickly.

some additional thoughts posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaVolpex

the point is, you are capped by energy/force/ammo/whatever your resource is

 

all allacrity does is allow you to cast your spells faster, and thus, run out of energy faster, but in the end, it does not increase your healing/damage because you will have done the exact same amount of damage as without alacrity given that you will run out of energy faster but casting the same amount of spells as without alacrity....get it?

 

 

TLDR: alacrity wont help anyone until it also increases energy regeneration rates and/or reduces global cooldown

 

It certainly does increase your HPS and DPS with certain classes. Just because you don't understand basic combat mechanics doesn't mean it's broken or not working.

That quote is completely accurate. It reduces activation time and it reduces channel time.

However it does not affect the global cooldown. Each instant cast ability (let's say double strike) takes a certain amount of time to activate which is the global cooldown.

 

Now let's take a ability with activation time (since we don't have any worth mentioning let's take revive) This ability shows it's effect after a certain period of time. For revive 10 secs i believe

 

An ability with a channeled effect is TK it takes a certain amount of time to do the ability and the effect is noticeable during the "activation phase".

 

Now DS doesn't benefit from alcrity one bit. Revive and TK do. Now if you have allot of channeled or activation abilities alcrity becomes useful (as far as no ammo/energy/force regen is taken into account) Seeing as there are no bread and butter activation or channeled abilities in our arsenal the stat becomes almost useless.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Natuli

[eldisper]

I am not really sure why alacritty has become a sore spot other then to nit pick ,not by you but others that support is handling. I simply put up a order of stats by importance for dps. they are as follow willpower,endurance(found on gear) with dps will power was listed 1st as it should have a higher amount then endurance and those two stats are the mainstay of the gear choices for (in this case) jedi shadow, followed by power,forcepower,alacritty,crit - I listed crit as last simply because I have not seen any theory crafting on crit. I did recommend in earlier post same thread that crit should be experimented with perhaps by putting it before force power , as forcepower and alacrity support crit. the more spells you can cast usually the higher chance of a crit but on this new game I am not sure and gave my recomendations. That is all.not sure why others feel they are exempt from offering helpfull advice. Edited February 8, 2012 by eldisper

[-Jedi-Logan-]

OP asked for an answer and reposted in page 2 that he had been helped, at this point you are perpetuating a cycle that all-in-all Kitru is likely to win. Just saying. Good information though, tried to block out all the random chatter so I don't stack stuff that does absolutely nothing for me though.

[eldisper]

op said was helped on 1st page after my post before the other persons, enough presumption and continuance of this thread. I am purposely not mentioning names as I do not want to engage in a flame war

[Timberley]

Indeed I have. I have been helped enormously by this. I have swopped several mods around, replaced some of my crit enhancements (not all though) with those that favour power (though not at the expense of willpower), and adopted Powerr's suggestion of incorporating Force Breach into my rotation immediately after Project (with 2x Circling Shadows buff on the Project). I have noticed an overall increase in my damage capability, using the somewhat shaky numbers that appear during PvE combat. Not masses, but enough that comparable level 'silvers' take the equivalent number of hits to kill as 'regulars' did when I used with different mods and had a slightly different rotation.

 

My thanks to all in the Shadow community for their contributions when it comes to changing my kit/mod slots, despite the lack of combat logs to back up said statements. I will perform some experimentation as well, to see what works best for my playstyle.

 

Tim

Edited February 8, 2012 by Timberley

[Reii]

I am not really sure why alacritty has become a sore spot other then to nit pick ,not by you but others that support is handling. I simply put up a order of stats by importance for dps. they are as follow willpower,endurance(found on gear) with dps will power was listed 1st as it should have a higher amount then endurance and those two stats are the mainstay of the gear choices for (in this case) jedi shadow, followed by power,forcepower,alacritty,crit - I listed crit as last simply because I have not seen any theory crafting on crit. I did recommend in earlier post same thread that crit should be experimented with perhaps by putting it before force power , as forcepower and alacrity support crit. the more spells you can cast usually the higher chance of a crit but on this new game I am not sure and gave my recomendations. That is all.not sure why others feel they are exempt from offering helpfull advice.

 

I find it really funny that you feel you are being harassed when you are simply being corrected for providing the wrong information.

 

It is pretty easy to see via logical thinking that Crit is superior to Alacrity and that Alacrity itself as a stat is near worthless for SHADOWS - which is what the discussion is about. Do any of us on the Shadow forums here care how much Alacrity is worth as a stat across the board? No. Especially when the forum, poster, and question are directed at Shadows.

 

If you even understand the class at all it should also be painfully obvious that we benefit from crit in most specs. Infiltration provides +30% crit damage for ShadowStrike and +50% crit damage for Project and Surge. Balance provides +30% crit damage for dots and FiB, and force strike previously triggered off of crits. Its like the skill tree is -telling- you that hey, we need crit.

 

No one replying to you has been rude or anywhere near trolling. If you are taking offense at their corrections then you really need to open up or you are going to have a terrible time working together with others as a team in any game, real life job or relationship.

[Sentry]

I have swopped several mods around, replaced some of my crit enhancements (not all though) with those that favour power (though not at the expense of willpower)Tim

I'm not sure how useful it will be to try stacking power AND crit/surge. Honestly, I would just stick with one and stack it exclusively. Personally, as a balance shadow, I stack crit and surge but either option works.

[eldisper]

prove that I am giving wrong info. I find it funny you think people are correcting me when it is them kitru that should take correction. I do not apreciate that you think my work ethic ia wrong

- not to mention it is off topic

 

 

I find it really funny that you feel you are being harassed when you are simply being corrected for providing the wrong information.

 

It is pretty easy to see via logical thinking that Crit is superior to Alacrity and that Alacrity itself as a stat is near worthless for SHADOWS - which is what the discussion is about. Do any of us on the Shadow forums here care how much Alacrity is worth as a stat across the board? No. Especially when the forum, poster, and question are directed at Shadows.

 

If you even understand the class at all it should also be painfully obvious that we benefit from crit in most specs. Infiltration provides +30% crit damage for ShadowStrike and +50% crit damage for Project and Surge. Balance provides +30% crit damage for dots and FiB, and force strike previously triggered off of crits. Its like the skill tree is -telling- you that hey, we need crit.

 

No one replying to you has been rude or anywhere near trolling. If you are taking offense at their corrections then you really need to open up or you are going to have a terrible time working together with others as a team in any game, real life job or relationship.

[Reii]

It is on topic because posters like Kitru and myself do not want the original poster to be misled by your inaccurate statements about stat priorities.

 

If you still think alacrity is worthwhile stat for a Shadow even after several posts from various people correcting you and explaining why it isn't then go ahead and continue thinking that. It is only to your detriment. I'm sure the OP has received enough sound advice to be able to make his own judgement on whose advice is proper or not.

[Kitru]

prove that I am giving wrong info.

 

You have repeatedly stated that Alacrity is just like haste and that's more valuable than crit. This is explicitly wrong. Alacrity only affects cast bars and, as such, is useless to DPS Shadows since they don't ever use cast bars. The game even explicitly states that it only affects cast time. How about you try and prove *yourself* correct, rather than forcing everyone to prove you wrong simply because you insist on hiding behind your own fundamentally flawed view of reality.

[eldisper]

It is on topic because posters like Kitru and myself do not want the original poster to be misled by your inaccurate statements about stat priorities.

 

If you still think alacrity is worthwhile stat for a Shadow even after several posts from various people correcting you and explaining why it isn't then go ahead and continue thinking that. It is only to your detriment. I'm sure the OP has received enough sound advice to be able to make his own judgement on whose advice is proper or not.

 

its off topic because my work ethic has nothing to do with swtor, Also you are wrong in the information you are posting.

[eldisper]

Indeed I have. I have been helped enormously by this. I have swopped several mods around, replaced some of my crit enhancements (not all though) with those that favour power (though not at the expense of willpower), and adopted Powerr's suggestion of incorporating Force Breach into my rotation immediately after Project (with 2x Circling Shadows buff on the Project). I have noticed an overall increase in my damage capability, using the somewhat shaky numbers that appear during PvE combat. Not masses, but enough that comparable level 'silvers' take the equivalent number of hits to kill as 'regulars' did when I used with different mods and had a slightly different rotation.

 

My thanks to all in the Shadow community for their contributions when it comes to changing my kit/mod slots, despite the lack of combat logs to back up said statements. I will perform some experimentation as well, to see what works best for my playstyle.

 

Tim

 

this is the op post , no where does he say he is not satisfied with my answer

[Warclaymore]

Sumarizing: Willpower should be your first stat as it gives you "all". Power is good as it gives you raw damage. If you have some auto-crit mechanics (Particle Acceleration), then I'd go Surge all the way. If you don't, I think the common numbers are ~30 Crit ~75 Surge. Endurance...it will come naturally as every mod you get will have endurance. If you go DPS, you should take the willpower>endurance ones.

[Cancrizans]

this is the op post , no where does he say he is not satisfied with my answer

 

But I don't understand what you are getting at. Even your own definition of alacrity proves it is only useful for shortening the time it takes to CAST spells. Therefore it is completely useless to DPS Shadows. What is so difficult to understand about this?

 

It is nothing like melee haste in WoW, it is a caster-only stat.

[BaolJax]

Where do u put the accuracy in that priority order for dps shadow?

 

Do u stack it until 100% or simply forgot it like alacrity?

[Solosus]

Just wanted to point out that there was no need to belittle someone by telling them they don't know what they talking about, everything in your post was accurate from what i can tell and i completely agree with what you wrote, but you invited a defensive response by insulting the poster about his misconception with the value of alacrity.

 

Not everyone here has had access to exhausted testing done on alacrity and its effect on GCD, it does in fact affect GCD but only sudsequent to a cast time ability, it has zero effect on instant cast and does not lower the GCD during use of instant casts, so therefore yes, its a useless stat for shadows to use.

 

Bioware has not helped with this either, their descriptions are vague at best and people confused alacrity with haste in use in other games. There was even a post trying to explain that alacrity lowers the animation time of animation intensive abilities, something no doubt mistaken with Aion's haste stats and how they were implemented in that game.

[MidasTyrany]

I just wanted to say thank you for the information found in this thread . Im new to the shadow and it is unlike the other two 50s i have played (bounty hunter , Sorc) on almost every level ... it can be very confusing at times and this was exactly the information that I was looking for .

 

As far as the misinformation goes ... I just now happened onto this thread and have read it through and I agree that the information from one particular poster looks to be quite inaccurate as far as Alacrity goes and thats okay , were all learning as we go ... to the other posters though with experience your posts have proved to be quite helpful and much appreciated .

 

On a side note I really didnt see any attacks towards anyone but it seemed that you were being very defensive to the point of inspiring that behavior from others . I keep an open mind ... there have been many times where things that I have thought have been proven wrong and I accept that I was wrong when information is provided that proves me otherwise . It is a hard character attribute to have I know ... I can certainly be bull headed at times but in the very least I do credit you for attempting to share your information in the first place as there may have been others with the same point of view as you and now they too can see how it is the wrong way of thinking .

 

In conclusion thank you all for your hard work and contributions to the community and Im sorry for the wall of text

[Dejected]

This thread necro made me lulz so hard. I especially liked eldispar refusing to accept the mass advice that alacrity had no effect on the global cooldown, and going (akin to a child with their fingers in their ears) LALALA IT MAKES YOU ATTACK FASTER LALALA QUOTE FROM BIOWARE LALALA IM RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG!

 

Good lulz were had. Thanks much

[Daiyukie]

Lets talk more about mods on dps you should rarely if ever go for crit as it is just a proc, you want sustained dps which power,and forcepower will give you, alacritty or (haste) is always rated above crit as it gives you a steady stream of damage and more chances to proc crit.

My order of priority stands true also there is no battle log at this moment so theory crafting should be disregarded at this point.

"As to the OP, if xxxxx says something about shadow tanks I just do it (not kidding). He knows math stuff. MATH STUFF!"

There is little math since there is no battle logs all is just conjecture.

Ok in regard to itemization for dps I will always pick willpower,endurance (they are on gear),followed by power then forcepower then alacritty with crit being the last for sustanined dps. [...]

Lol @ alacrity for melee class, and talking about force power and endurance in stat priority. You're funny.

[Daiyukie]

Where do u put the accuracy in that priority order for dps shadow?

 

Do u stack it until 100% or simply forgot it like alacrity?

"Stacking" accuracy would be bad, but you do want to aim for 100% melee accuracy, yes. Helps a little versus tanks, but you should prioritize your force powers when you see tanks and their defensive cooldowns. I often have a shadow strike proc up and choose to Project < Breach < TKT instead of trying to land the shadow strike on say a tank Jugg. Just click on Shinarika's Armory link in her sig to check out a pure-damage setup and what stats you'd need for it.

[WoruulKeei]

Just adding what I know from pve experience as I don't pvp very much. Alacrity doesn't do anything for instant cast abilities, and even Bioware said it was a pretty badly designed stat and they were looking at possibly changing it, and sadly I don't remember exactly where I read this and I am not going to go searching for it right now. Endurance is useful for staying alive but is a stat you get a lot of anyways and if you are focused on dps for pve the amount you get on your gear should be more than enough for you to survive granted you have a good healer, good tank, and you are smart enough to avoid things that need be avoided. Personally I am infiltration dps and have leveled with that build. With the various bonuses we get to crit damage for many of our attacks I stack crit pretty high, but it is not something you want to stack forever since it gets to a point where it won't be worth it. Surge is good to get around 75%, if you include the base 50%, in my opinion but is the stat hit hardest with diminishing returns. For pve mobs have a 10% defense so you want to get your accuracy to 100%. The way that works is it shows your standard attacks accuracy and special attacks have a 10% bonus on top of that, so your really 110% - 10% defense = no attacks missed. With surge and accuracy good you want to start getting your power up as well so you have better normal attacks which also means they crit harder. As you progress pve you want to try and balance these somewhat, for example I haven't been doing an operations yet so my accuracy is only 99% and my surge is only around 73%, including base 50%. As you progress you get more stats out of your gear so these small shortages will be taken care of. My crit rating is something short of 500, once I hit that I will start simply stacking as much power as I can to normalize my damage. This is all for the secondary stats of course, willpower should always be stacked over power if possible. With a consular buff the damage difference is only .02 per point favoring power, but willpower of course buffs your crit chance. With 1.2 out make sure you get your companions to max affection, those extra bonuses stack on top of your stats and are unaffected by diminishing returns, they are simply straight bonuses.

 

Also as for the earlier comment about saving force breach for after project, that is great in pvp and can be nice in pve, but in pve you don't have to worry as much about holding off one of your better attacks to wait for project. There isn't a reason you need to save all that up for one quick blow. In pvp its to catch the enemy off guard and to do tons of damage before he can react, in pve you are just losing time on force breach since it has a cd you are extending by not using it as soon as its up. For pve only reason to hold off on force breach is if you are fighting a near dead minor add and you want to save it for a stronger enemy or if you are about to use force potency. Also almost all builds will have the talent that buffs your melee crit chance when you get a force crit, say both your attacks crit... so you just blew up a huge amount of the enemy health bar, but you never got any use of the buff from the first attack. Not saying to hold off on them if you are ready to use both, but always waiting for both to be up to use force breach is a waste.

 

Now I'll just link where I got a lot of my stat information, http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/attachment.php?aid=292

And credit to the forum thread that got me to those, http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=157437&highlight=crit+diminishing+return

Edited May 29, 2012 by WoruulKeei