Bazouk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 That's great, but an entirely seperate issue and completely irrelevant to my post. it's perfectly relevant. you're on one of the four servers where an lfd tool isn't needed. the rest of us aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Guiscard Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Even if it was just a server-wide tool as opposed to an entire galaxy wide one...that would be an improvement. As it is now, I've just completely given up on doing Flashpoints, which sucks. But I have a busy RL and not a lot of recreational time, I play the game to have fun, not to stand around the Imperial Fleet spamming /1 and guild chat trying to herd people together for a group - I can't remember the last time I could get a group together in under 45 minutes on a FP higher than Athiss. One of the drawbacks on being on an underpopulated server I suppose, but still not any less frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorchess Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You're oversimplifying the issue. You need 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS. Not only that, you need a persont to fill these roles that are withint he level range of the flashpoint. That cuts the available pool down to 10-20 Out of that number you need to find 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS. On top of that you need to find people who are willing to do the flashpoint. That limits the pool of players even more. Let's say (which is often the case considering what people have reported on these boards numerous times) there are no tanks on the fleet LFG a group. At this point you can fly to level appropriate worlds and see if questing tanks or interested. Or you can just continue to quest or que for PvP as getting a group together takes so much more work and effort yet the return of fun is about the same as PvP and questing. People, understandibly, don't bother. You make good points. But I am a tank myself and usually play with a healer buddy. Even then it takes us a long while before we find 2 dps. And that's at level 50, where questing is only a minor issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 OK, rather then beat each other over and over with odd body parts and insults, lets do some strawman compromise idea generation. So here is a strawman for a compromise solution to the passion on both sides (I'm not married to the idea, I'm just trying to think and discuss constructively): A compromise solution would be for Bioware to 1) select a subset of the servers and declare them to be cross server LFD enabled. If you want cross server LFD, you play on these servers only. Only these servers are wired for cross-server. You want the feature, you roll on these servers. 2) Don't penalize a level 50 player having to re-roll, allow players a one time (one time only, one way, no take backs so think before you leap) character transfer to a server in the declared subset. 3) phase it in over some reasonable period of time, so as to mitigate silly thoughtless server jumpers who will then regret the move and open ticket after ticket pleading to "take back their mistake". 4) charge a nominal fee for the ability to make the one time move, as that will encourage people to think before they leap. You put $$ in the equation and suddenly people start to be more thoughtful and cautious about their choices. It gives those that simply must have the feaure the option. It preserves communities that do not want to be exposed to the negative consequences of cross server LFD. It puts the burden of move and use on those that actually say they want it, and leaves others unimpacted. It separates the two camps and gets them off of each others throats. Personally, I would suggest they use the chronically light load servers, as this will help solve a populations distribution problem as well. AND it develops the mechanics to support character moves (under very restricted circumstances, a la WoW, NOT the Rift free for all mess). In addiiton, Bioware can adjust servers over time to meet population demands of the "two camps" in the population. Personally, I think the cross sever LFD sement will be the smaller population and will suffer higher subscriber attrition, for several reasons that are characteristic of the demographic. Contribute/add please....... that makes way too much sense. never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 it's perfectly relevant. you're on one of the four servers where an lfd tool isn't needed. the rest of us aren't Search "server merg" or search "server transfer". You seem to be in the wrong thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 1. I agree with you. You got my point...good. So you admit bringing up a bunch of qq of how people were mean to you in WOW dosen't actually have anything to do with whether or not LFG is a good idea? 2. True, but you have yet to prove why it isn't good. Though the fact that is optional means you have very little to lose if you they put one in. 3. So we've established that jerks alone isn't a good enough reason to stop an LFG tool. What are some of the other negatives? 4. That didn't make any sense. I don't like to sit around the fleet forming groups/whispering strangers...true. I don't think I should have to do it...true. I am advocating for a system that would allow me to skip this woeful process. Are you saying I should have to do this? Why? Make your case. 5. I wasn't actually making an argument as to why LFG is a good idea. I was simply pointing out that your evidence doesn't logically lead to your conclusion. Having bad personal experience means you shouldn't use a LFG tool. It doesn't mean nobody should. That's all I'm saying. You've already admitted this anyway (see point 1) 1- I agree with you, although why you attack the person you initially quoted for doing the same thing is a mystery. I don't recall saying anything about WoW at all in my post... 2- Neither have you. All I have ever heard from the pro-LFD contingent is "you don't have to, so its A-OK!", "it doesn't affect you, so its A-OK!" or "i don't like it and things I don't like should be removed so its A-OK!". None of those arguments have anything to do on the actual merits of the feature. The last argument you hear is "you want to play the game, and this let's you play more faster, so its A-OK!". Sadly, this ignores all of the things you skip in order to run more faster... 3- Removes community from groups. Removes accountability from groups. Takes the MMO out of MMORPG. Yes they are other players, other players you will never see again. It would be simpler and make more sense to have SWTOR put in NPC mercenaries you can hire...since LFD groups are essentially the same. 4- For something that didn't make sense, you explained it rather well. If you find the process of finding groups "woeful", perhaps games were group finding is important aren't your cup of tea... 5- Again, I never said I had a bad personal experience... Look, I'm not saying that the current method of finding groups is good because its not. However, to turn it into an auto queue for what amounts to essentially NPCs is not the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm not asking for macros. I'm demanding them. Another entitlist. Every post in this thread by you has been you demanding or feeling entitled to something. You have to be a developers absolute worst nightmare. In fact, I am willing to wager that most companies would love to just not have your money at the chance to not hear your demanding tirades. =) Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I agree with the OP. Not so much as an ultimatum as just a statement of fact. You're never going to convince a passionate pro lfd guy that he is better off without it and he doesen't care if you're worse off with it.C'mon, be honest with yourself and everyone else. You're NOT worse off with an LFG tool and you know it. With an LFG tool, you can use it to find groups or you can group manually from your flist or whatever. You have options and are still free to play the game the way you want. Without it, you have spam on a cluttered local channel and players who aren't having fun. How does having an option, an additional alternative towards your end, HURT you? That's just not plausible. Another entitlist. Every post in this thread by you has been you demanding or feeling entitled to something. You have to be a developers absolute worst nightmare. In fact, I am willing to wager that most companies would love to just not have your money at the cahnce to not hear your demanding tirades.That said, the game needs macro support. Edited February 7, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorchess Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 it's perfectly relevant. you're on one of the four servers where an lfd tool isn't needed. the rest of us aren't I'm not even talking about the LFD tool in particular. I'm just wondering why so little people are interested in flashpoints as it is. Please read more carefully in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopbounce Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I've concluded all the people advocating AGAINST a LFG tool must be trying to sabotage the game or something. I love the game in this current state, but c'mon. Why wouldn't you have a server-wide LFG tool? (that is better than the current one) 1) I (and many others) are not talking about a cross-server LFG system. I believe there are many reasons against THAT 2) I don't understand how it limits your social options. The original LFG system, when implemented in WoW, actually caused out guild to do dungeons together much more often. (rather than waiting for that 1 last person to go...) 3) Spamming in general is bad and should be limited... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 it's perfectly relevant. you're on one of the four servers where an lfd tool isn't needed. the rest of us aren't Four servers is a drastic overstatement. Saturday, 75% of the servers were at HEAVY or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moricthian Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 OK, rather then beat each other over and over with odd body parts and insults, lets do some strawman compromise idea generation. So here is a strawman for a compromise solution to the passion on both sides (I'm not married to the idea, I'm just trying to think and discuss constructively): A compromise solution would be for Bioware to 1) select a subset of the servers and declare them to be cross server LFD enabled. If you want cross server LFD, you play on these servers only. Only these servers are wired for cross-server. You want the feature, you roll on these servers. 2) Don't penalize a level 50 player having to re-roll, allow players a one time (one time only, one way, no take backs so think before you leap) character transfer to a server in the declared subset. 3) phase it in over some reasonable period of time, so as to mitigate silly thoughtless server jumpers who will then regret the move and open ticket after ticket pleading to "take back their mistake". 4) charge a nominal fee for the ability to make the one time move, as that will encourage people to think before they leap. You put $$ in the equation and suddenly people start to be more thoughtful and cautious about their choices. It gives those that simply must have the feaure the option. It preserves communities that do not want to be exposed to the negative consequences of cross server LFD. It puts the burden of move and use on those that actually say they want it, and leaves others unimpacted. It separates the two camps and gets them off of each others throats. Personally, I would suggest they use the chronically light load servers, as this will help solve a populations distribution problem as well. AND it develops the mechanics to support character moves (under very restricted circumstances, a la WoW, NOT the Rift free for all mess). In addiiton, Bioware can adjust servers over time to meet population demands of the "two camps" in the population. Personally, I think the cross sever LFD sement will be the smaller population and will suffer higher subscriber attrition, for several reasons that are characteristic of the demographic. Contribute/add please....... I like this idea. Seems pretty fair. Though I would argue that they use both light and heavy servers. I don't want to switch to a lightly populated server to use an LFG tool. I still enjoy open world PvP and would rather not have to choose which feature I should be able to ejoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroshia Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 3- Removes community from groups. Removes accountability from groups. Takes the MMO out of MMORPG. Yes they are other players, other players you will never see again. It would be simpler and make more sense to have SWTOR put in NPC mercenaries you can hire...since LFD groups are essentially the same. If you can explain to me how a server specific LFD tool will do this and roll up an Empire character on Port Nowhere I will give your new character 500k Credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Search "server merg" or search "server transfer". You seem to be in the wrong thread! i'm advocating LFD. my primary reason is lack of population. i'm pretty sure it's every advocate's primary reason. the two subjects are intertwined. l2 brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 OK, rather then beat each other over and over with odd body parts and insults, lets do some strawman compromise idea generation. So here is a strawman for a compromise solution to the passion on both sides (I'm not married to the idea, I'm just trying to think and discuss constructively): A compromise solution would be for Bioware to 1) select a subset of the servers and declare them to be cross server LFD enabled. If you want cross server LFD, you play on these servers only. Only these servers are wired for cross-server. You want the feature, you roll on these servers. 2) Don't penalize a level 50 player having to re-roll, allow players a one time (one time only, one way, no take backs so think before you leap) character transfer to a server in the declared subset. 3) phase it in over some reasonable period of time, so as to mitigate silly thoughtless server jumpers who will then regret the move and open ticket after ticket pleading to "take back their mistake". 4) charge a nominal fee for the ability to make the one time move, as that will encourage people to think before they leap. You put $$ in the equation and suddenly people start to be more thoughtful and cautious about their choices. It gives those that simply must have the feaure the option. It preserves communities that do not want to be exposed to the negative consequences of cross server LFD. It puts the burden of move and use on those that actually say they want it, and leaves others unimpacted. It separates the two camps and gets them off of each others throats. Personally, I would suggest they use the chronically light load servers, as this will help solve a populations distribution problem as well. AND it develops the mechanics to support character moves (under very restricted circumstances, a la WoW, NOT the Rift free for all mess). In addiiton, Bioware can adjust servers over time to meet population demands of the "two camps" in the population. Personally, I think the cross sever LFD sement will be the smaller population and will suffer higher subscriber attrition, for several reasons that are characteristic of the demographic. Contribute/add please....... Fascinating suggestion, but ultimately a terrible idea. You can't have a feature enabled on one server and not another unless it is a declared ruleset (PvP/PvE/Etc). You also can't rely on enforcing a 'no cross server LFG tool' policy on specific servers. The real 'solution' would be to implement a cross server LFG tool on -every- server with a default "Only check from my server' option checked and allow players the freedom to switch between in server/cross server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowkai Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There is NO reason not to do an Aion style, server (not x-server) LFG tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grueber Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What a dense and completely off-base statement. My guild would be fine with or without the tool. In fact I can guarantee the majority of guilds would feel the same way. Perhaps you should make some more freinds. =) Some of us here are trying to debate the actual topic and find some common ground. But people like you keep coming in and stomping your feet like a babies who aren't getting thier way. If you want to have a constructive conversationon the topic then by all means, hang around! Don't be a tool. I've been in raiding guilds in the past. I understand that being in a guild is a time commitment. People in guilds like to group with competent players and I've been guilt-tripped enough times helping out and putting RL stuff on hold. If you want to pay my bills and handle my RL responsibilities. I'll be more than happy to chtchat and blow the breeze at leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The patch that implements a WoW-style LFD they lose at least 1 sub and I'm sure many more than just one. But gains MUCH more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Even if it was just a server-wide tool as opposed to an entire galaxy wide one...that would be an improvement. As it is now, I've just completely given up on doing Flashpoints, which sucks. But I have a busy RL and not a lot of recreational time, I play the game to have fun, not to stand around the Imperial Fleet spamming /1 and guild chat trying to herd people together for a group - I can't remember the last time I could get a group together in under 45 minutes on a FP higher than Athiss. One of the drawbacks on being on an underpopulated server I suppose, but still not any less frustrating. Have to bring in the I have a RL and am a casual player into the mix because if you do you have to be right, right? So since you dont have the time to find a group by means in the game and run a flashpoint, having the game make a group for you would then allow you to have time to run a flashpoint. That has nothing to do with being a casual or any RL issues. It all has to be about being lazy and wanting the game to do everything for you. So if the game takes 40 mins to find you a group you would have time to run the flashpoint? Then when RL hits you can just bail and you got what you wanted and now the rest of the group has to wait for someone else and that person is put into a flashpoint that is partially completed. That wouldnt make any WFT Bioware I get into a flashpoint and the boss I need loot off of is already killed posts would it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitdingo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Last night, Republic fleet on my server never goes over 60-65 players. For two hours I try to form a PUG for a hard mode flashpoint (I am a tank) with absolutely no luck. In that time I found two DPS (but not at the same time), each of who eventually gave up. How is this considered good for the game? I know people will scream that a LFG kills the community. Do you know what kills the community for than a LFG tool? People quitting the game because it is impossible to form groups to do the content. It isn't any better (probably worse actually) at lower levels also. Last week I was trying to form a group to help my brother with The Red Reaper, and we ended up having to do it with companions. Luckily I am completely overgeared for a level 45 flashpoint so we were able to do it that way. I'm sure for Imperial players finding groups is easy when there are 200+ people on your fleet, but right now it seems like the only option until they add a LFG tool for Republic players is to reroll to the more populated faction. Why would you actually want to be able to do content? Spamming LFG for hours is the fun. Think of the community you are creating by spamming LFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Everyone against this is stupid. The current LFG tool is garbage. You need a cross server tool as there are not enough players to do any content on some servers, especially lower levels. Spamming chat channels for over an hour does not support a community, I am not sure why this excuse is being used as it is a very dumb one. I can not get any HM grps unless its prime time on my server and I am a healer in full Rakata. I can't get one at all for my alt. Implement a tool or watch players leave due to the simple fact there are not enough people on one server to do 4man FP's. People like to join a Q and go about their business. Not spend an hour spamming chat. Standing on the fleet for hours spamming is not fun, and the current tool is useless. This has to be the same crowd against meters as well. I am sick of bad players wanting to play blindly and be able to hide that they are horrible at this game and wasting other peoples time. If you don't want a Q don't use it, its pretty simple. I am pretty sure the majority of players want it implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XOrionX Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Fascinating suggestion, but ultimately a terrible idea. You can't have a feature enabled on one server and not another unless it is a declared ruleset (PvP/PvE/Etc). You also can't rely on enforcing a 'no cross server LFG tool' policy on specific servers. The real 'solution' would be to implement a cross server LFG tool on -every- server with a default "Only check from my server' option checked and allow players the freedom to switch between in server/cross server. I sitll think there should be a limit to the number of LFD tool FP's a character can roll in a day. Perhaps enough to fulfill the requirements of the DAILY FP's. At which point the LFD tool goes on some sort of CD. This would encourage players to not stand in fleet all day and queue for exp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haroshia Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I'm not even talking about the LFD tool in particular. I'm just wondering why so little people are interested in flashpoints as it is. Please read more carefully in the future. Because running hardmodes is dumb as hell for getting loot at level 50. Let me break it down. Hardmode Flashpoints Take 1-3 hours to run Drop 1 piece of Tier 1.2 loot for 4 people Have some horribly over-tuned gear checks for PUGs to clear Drop very few Tier 1.1 tokens/pieces Normal Mode Operations Take 1-3 hours to run Drop 10 pieces of Tier 1.2 loot for 8 people Are MUCH easier to PUG in inferior gear with the exception of one or two fights Drop a LOT more Tier 1.1 tokens/pieces [/List] It's a no brainer. Edited February 7, 2012 by Haroshia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The real 'solution' would be to implement a cross server LFG tool on -every- server with a default "Only check from my server' option checked and allow players the freedom to switch between in server/cross server. This is NOT a compromise solution, that is the all servers = cross server LFD. The opposing objection to this is the negative impact it has on server community. It's unfair of you to ignore that objection IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 But gains MUCH more complaints and threads complaining about the LFD than there are now. Looks like you forgot to finish your statement so I finished it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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