Every patch that doesn't have a LFG tool is costing you players

[Bazouk]

Actually, it is ninja'ing.

 

The mods on that armor are items also, so instead of one piece of gear you are actaully rolling for 4 pieces of gear, the gear and the three mods.

 

When 100% of the gear is usable by one class and only 25% usable by the other class, then the one that benefits teh most fromt eh gear should CLEARLY get the loot.

 

that's your opinion. but when the button lets me click, and i can legitimately call upgrade, i'm clicking the button.

[AHierophant]

So you won't have any issue continuing to manually invite people from that massive pool of potential group mates, which a LFG tool does not prevent you from doing, and will not be impacted in the slightest then.

 

What was your argument against the tool again?

 

Never had one, unless the tool spanned servers. Which I stated right away.

 

My warning from the LFG tool is that it will continue the dependence on the finder to create the group. If the tool is simply a centralized "area" to find members, then fine. But if it's a click-button join-group no-think then people start treating their fellows like dispensed NPCs with personalities because the essential human cooperation needed to form a group was eliminated. Then it moves on to the "no one speaks, ever" to the trolling, stealing, and harassment endemic in WoW.

 

If you de-humanize the teammates, then they won't be given the same considerations as before.

[Emeda]

I've already had multiple instances of people being idiots for loot rolls. Last night I had a marauder roll need on a slotted chest with cunning. Another run had a sage rolling need on a str saber that pissed off the Jedi knight in the group.

 

People can be just as thoughtless or stupid whether the group is formed via chat or LFD.

 

But without a LFD tool his reputation of doing that will either prevent him from finding a group again or stop him from doing it. A LFD tool will not.

 

If you hold the players accountable and have the players build a reputation on their servers then the jerks and ninjas will be weeded out and not be able to get a group to do those things. To allow the game to auto form groups just allows players to continue being jerks and ninjas with zero accountability (expecially cross server)

[bltzkrieg]

The patch that implements a WoW-style LFD they lose at least 1 sub and I'm sure many more than just one.

 

Do you often make statements that you can't corroberate. Your still here aren't you?????

[XOrionX]

that's your opinion. but when the button lets me click, and i can legitimately call upgrade, i'm clicking the button.

 

Yah, you are one of those.

 

Easily the most hated player type in the MMORPG genre.

 

 

And no, it is not an opinion, it is fact. 4/4 of the items are usuable by one class, and only 1/4 items are usable by the other. Hard to call that an opinion, it's basic math. =)

Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX

[Emeda]

that's your opinion. but when the button lets me click, and i can legitimately call upgrade, i'm clicking the button.

 

And you sir a a perfect reason why LFD should never be added. Hey one of my companions can use that so I am rolling on it a screw anyone else in the group that needs it for his actual toon. I wouldnt want you to be in my group and I dont think 95% of the other players would either but LFD would force us to group with you.

[Moricthian]

Never had one, unless the tool spanned servers. Which I stated right away.

 

My warning from the LFG tool is that it will continue the dependence on the finder to create the group. If the tool is simply a centralized "area" to find members, then fine. But if it's a click-button join-group no-think then people start treating their fellows like dispensed NPCs with personalities because the essential human cooperation needed to form a group was eliminated. Then it moves on to the "no one speaks, ever" to the trolling, stealing, and harassment endemic in WoW.

 

If you de-humanize the teammates, then they won't be given the same considerations as before.

 

The PvP que should just be expanded to included flashpoints and heroic quests. Does this kind of stuff happen in warzones? Occasionally but not nearly to the apocolyptic community destroying levels you say.

 

Anti-LFD people - please stop using dramatic end of the world rhetoric when arguing against a LFD tool. Our PvP que has already proven you false.

[grueber]

you have no one but BW to blame for that. medium armor is fair game to anyone that can wear medium armor FOR THE SIMPLE FACT that is can be altered. if i could have altered it and turned it into an upgrade, i would have rolled need as well. that is not ninja.

 

Thanks I'll start rolling need based on the fact I can "wear" it even if the major stats are completely useless and I would have to reslot 2-3 of the mods to make it useful. Sure the 3 other members in my group may think I'm a ***** but hey I can equip it it's fair game according to you. Remind me never to group with you.

 

Unlike you I actually will stop rolling need if I have already won a piece on a FP run and someone in the group could use a drop. It's called courtesy.

Edited February 7, 2012 by grueber

[Bazouk]

And you sir a a perfect reason why LFD should never be added. Hey one of my companions can use that so I am rolling on it a screw anyone else in the group that needs it for his actual toon. I wouldnt want you to be in my group and I dont think 95% of the other players would either but LFD would force us to group with you.

 

nah i don't roll on comp gear. but if i can make an upgrade out of something that I can use, i'm going to do it. that's why I'm in the dungeon. for upgrades.

[XOrionX]

And you sir a a perfect reason why LFD should never be added. Hey one of my companions can use that so I am rolling on it a screw anyone else in the group that needs it for his actual toon. I wouldnt want you to be in my group and I dont think 95% of the other players would either but LFD would force us to group with you.

 

And let's be honest, he/she is the type of person that would be insta-kicked out of most groups. Let him/her continue with that frame of mind, it will only hurt them in the long run.

 

This type of behavior is exactly what angered me about LFD tools, some jerk comes in ninja's the epic and the quits group without finishing the dungeon.

Edited February 7, 2012 by XOrionX

[Varghjerta]

Never had one, unless the tool spanned servers. Which I stated right away.

 

My warning from the LFG tool is that it will continue the dependence on the finder to create the group. If the tool is simply a centralized "area" to find members, then fine. But if it's a click-button join-group no-think then people start treating their fellows like dispensed NPCs with personalities because the essential human cooperation needed to form a group was eliminated. Then it moves on to the "no one speaks, ever" to the trolling, stealing, and harassment endemic in WoW.

 

If you de-humanize the teammates, then they won't be given the same considerations as before.

 

Actually i would also compare the "LFG " debate auto or not like this

 

GAME

 

 

You gain a level on one character by pressing a button

 

But on another character you must do some more things to get that level

 

But now You can play a game betting on just that level

 

Which do you personally feel you would be most careful on?

 

And that will alway aswell inflict behavior patterns on most individs doing the dungeon

Risk vs reward

[Erevan_Kindelar]

The patch that implements a WoW-style LFD they lose at least 1 sub and I'm sure many more than just one.

 

Make that <Current Number>+1

 

Empire and Republic player here, I have no difficulty finding groups for any content I want to run. I would not even know how long the "normal" waiting time for groups is, because if I ever have to ask for a group, I get one within seconds, and usually I am getting whispers from friends and friends of friends asking if I want to run a FP or Heroic content.

 

I am not going to suggest that all people in the "I want a LFD tool or I will throw my toys out of the pram" ************ club are incompetent players who have a reputation that makes their server communities hate them or /ignore them, because I know that is not the case for all of them.

 

But as someone who is sociable in groups, makes sure that everyone knows what they are doing and runs organised PUGs, I know that 99% of my group invites come from people I have grouped with before and friended, or people that those have friended.

[AceOfHertz]

I would support an LFD tool if at the end of each dungeon the participants were given the option to rate each player.

 

After the ratings were done, an average would be taken and then inputted into a database. If a player's rating fell below a certain threshold (an average of the last 15 - 20 dungeons), they would only be paired with players of that same threshold.

 

This way, the players who really want to work together and do well together will assign decent ratings to other players who do the same, and jokers and people leaving early will receive poor ratings.

 

This way, even if you go cross-server, you're still looking at people who want to do well so that they don't end up in a group of people who are all out for their own devices.

 

Other than the above option, I'm ok with the current setup.

[Bazouk]

Thanks I'll start rolling need based on the fact I can "wear" it even if the major stats are completely useless and I would have to reslot 2-3 of the mods to make it useful. Sure the 3 other members in my group may think I'm a ***** but hey I can equip it it's fair game according to you. Remind me never to group with you.

 

Unlike you I actually will stop rolling need if I have already one a price on a FP run and someone in the group could use a drop. It's called courtesy.

 

if it's a purple and i cant change the major armor stat (cunning/aim w/e) then obviously i would not roll on it. i'm only talking about orange gear that i could COMPLETELY re-mod.

[TeoHTime]

The LFD debate within the MMO community is almost as heated as the gay marriage vs anti-gay marriage debate in RL. XD

 

 

The Forum Debate is heated, because of a minority of single issue lobbyists who have to make themselves heard whenever the topic pops up.

 

How do i know it's a minority? Easy - because if most of the community did not want to use a LFG tool, then there would be no reason to complain about its introduction.

 

A LFG tool forces nothing on the playerbase, it's an optional method of forming a group, ideally used to fill the gaps in a party after you manually invite your friends and known players currently available for the content. If people don't use the tool, the game doesn't change. If the majority of the community doesn't want to use a LFG tool, then they simply don't use it, and we're back where we started.

 

The reason there is heated opposition to it, is precisely because these crusaders know that most people will use it. They'll use it because most people don't infact like sitting in Fleet spamming the general chat and whispering everyone from a /who list one at a time for hours before finally giving up on actually playing the game and logging off. It's precisely because the majority do want this feature, that it will have an impact on the game and change the way SWTOR is played.

 

Specifically, it'll have the impact of encouraging people to actually group and play the game together, instead of just standing around and talking about it. Since this little bunch of housewives are violently opposed to the idea of people being able to play the game, they will fight it tooth and nail, and so you have this thread.

Edited February 7, 2012 by TeoHTime

[Eldrenath]

Add me to the list of players opposed to LFD, ESPECIALLY a cross-server LFD tool.

 

It simply heightens too many gamers' inclinations to be elitist jerkwads. Especially since cross-server, it doesn't matter if you behave like a complete tool, you're not damaging your name. That same guy in a server-only group might police his behavior a little if he knows he might not get a group next time because his name is mud on the server he plays on.

 

Players won't use the existing LFG tools. Those mad at BioWare should be mad at the players as well. Too many players want it too easy to find groups. While I'm not opposed to that per se, I am vehemently opposed to the environment that LFD creates. I played Rift, and the LFD tool created an absolute awful environment and completely killed ANY social level of the game. I hated it, and I very much hope it is NOT implemented here.

[Telendria]

But without a LFD tool his reputation of doing that will either prevent him from finding a group again or stop him from doing it. A LFD tool will not.

 

If you hold the players accountable and have the players build a reputation on their servers then the jerks and ninjas will be weeded out and not be able to get a group to do those things. To allow the game to auto form groups just allows players to continue being jerks and ninjas with zero accountability (expecially cross server)

 

that is simply not true.

 

you can report him on trade channel, votekick him and ignore him, everyone else who reads the chat can do the same, and LFG tool doesnt group you up with people on ignore

[Yuuj]

Ad Hominem. Please disregard.

 

The statement you quoted is actually entirely accurate. While I wasn't specifically pointing out an actual person, the type of person I detailed would benefit the most from the LFG tool being adding.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Yuuj

[Lulzbot]

Judging by your avatar and sig, you play Empire, so I don't think you are qualified to discuss the difficulty for Republic players to form groups.

 

I play republic and I have no problem finding groups. Hell, I even formed a PUG for EV HM! lol

[AHierophant]

The PvP que should just be expanded to included flashpoints and heroic quests. Does this kind of stuff happen in warzones? Occasionally but not nearly to the apocolyptic community destroying levels you say.

 

Anti-LFD people - please stop using dramatic end of the world rhetoric when arguing against a LFD tool. Our PvP que has already proven you false.

 

LFD: A dungeon tool to find group across multiple servers.

PvP queue: A PvP warzone queue to a find a group on one server.

 

A tool for one server, a tool for many servers.

 

At least pretend you're not really that obtuse.

[Scrobes]

*cough*

 

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Importance_of_Search_Comments

[iSkynet]

LFG tool that is already in, works fine. IF people learn to use it and not SPAM the general with LFG messages.

 

The tool as it is allows you to search every planet and everyone that has flagged himself for a group. Problem here is this: people are not yet 50, people have better stuff to do (at least for a little while), people just don't want to play PvE just yet... and this is understandable for me, because a 50ish player with green armor is not gonna get far...

 

Play some PvP or finish daily quests, and simply wait for it. PvE will happen en-mass but after everything is said and done I believe.

 

PvE needs balls and equips, it is not for the weak. Plus it take much more time...

[Amyiss]

And let's be honest, he/she is the type of person that would be insta-kicked out of most groups. Let him/her continue with that frame of mind, it will only hurt them in the long run.

 

This type of behavior is exactly what angered me about LFD tools, some jerk comes in ninja's the epic and the quits group without finishing the dungeon.

 

It doesn't matter if you kick them after the fact though, does it? I mean. The pretty pixels are GONE.

 

To be fair, this happened in WoW long before LFD was invented, but the massive difference is in Vanilla, a ninja would get you a black mark on the server, and now, saying someone ninjaed gets you loled at in General chat.

 

I'm not even sure why anyone bothers ninjaing in WoW anyway, when you can form a pug and tell them 'if x drops I get it'. Oh man, Death's Verdict. Good times.

[Bazouk]

Add me to the list of players opposed to LFD, ESPECIALLY a cross-server LFD tool.

 

It simply heightens too many gamers' inclinations to be elitist jerkwads. Especially since cross-server, it doesn't matter if you behave like a complete tool, you're not damaging your name. That same guy in a server-only group might police his behavior a little if he knows he might not get a group next time because his name is mud on the server he plays on.

 

Players won't use the existing LFG tools. Those mad at BioWare should be mad at the players as well. Too many players want it too easy to find groups. While I'm not opposed to that per se, I am vehemently opposed to the environment that LFD creates. I played Rift, and the LFD tool created an absolute awful environment and completely killed ANY social level of the game. I hated it, and I very much hope it is NOT implemented here.

 

you can not stop an elitist jerkwad from making his presence felt. you can only punish the majority of players by removing as many mediums as you can which the elitist jerkwad is using. unfortunately, the reduction of mediums for the elitist jerkwad to use means that the elitist jerkwad will be even more in your face on the few remaining mediums he has left to do it.

[Andryah]

rift didn't lose anyone because of LFD. they lost almost everyone because they had to re-learn their toons nearly every single patch.

 

Actually there were two fatal mistakes by Trion that promoted the hemoraging of players, primarily by destroying server community integrity. Both were implemented in response to player whines.

 

1) cross server LFD. It enabled unrestricted douche baggery because there is no server rep to worry about, which spoils it for sincere users, and the community as a whole.

 

2) free server moves for characters every week. It enabled guilds to server hop to collect server firsts and to flex their bad behaviors on a community and then leave. Pretty much enabled individual douche bags to do the same by server hopping to scrub away a name with a bad rep and then come back to a server with a new name and begin bad behavior all over again.

 

Now, in a perfect MMO world, where everyone behaves with at lease semi-normal social responsibility and behaviors, the above is not an issue. But this isn't fantasy land, as much as the pro LFD people want us to think it is.

 

The MMO world community is far from perfect (in fact it's getting worse every year IMO) and when you put systems in place the enable/encourage negative sociopathic behaviors on others with zero real consequences, you get a distasteful result that drives many good players away from a game.

 

A very tight, server only LFD would probably not cause any social harm as it does little to degrade accountability for a character. Rep gets around, and they get ignored. But let's be honest, this is not what the pro-LFD people want. They want full cross server LFD to give them maximum ease of access to other players for a group without having to apply any social or intersocial activity or accountability. But for every responsible person that would use such a system honorably, you likely have at least one that will use it to turbo-charge their douche bag behaviors.