Bodyguard Mercs need a slight buff.

[StuGameNew]

I am only 50 of a week and a half, but I have to say I feel pretty effective as a healer. AOE heals aren't as good as sorc, but that is fine. Not every class can do everything as well as all other classes, for good reasons.

 

I am only running hard mode FP's, and normal mode EV and karagas palace, but I have found myself a great tank healer. You can buff them 10% armor, 10% damage, and a 5% healing received just yourself, and you can keep that up most of the time, greatly reducing his/her damage.

 

When I need to raid heal, I just pop supercharged gas and my trinkets and fire off 3-4 healing scans and with another healer helping the raid is usually topped off.

 

I would love a buff as much as the next guy, but I do think we are good healers already. You may night hit as high Healing numbers on a PvP game as a sorc, but that is hardly a reason to change anything.

[TempestasSilva]

Not skewed. There isnt this huge discrpancy. I could dble the healing of any sorc on a tank.

I'll humor you and agree that you can heal double as much single target as a Sorc. Probably only under SCG, but whatever.

 

Now please go re-read the quoted portion of the OP and tell me how that is anywhere near only double. Or come up with your own calculations to refute the numbers there.

 

Then factor in the bubbles that allow damage avoidance, an interrupt, a battle rez, extrication, a better healing resource mechanic, etc.

 

If you don't see a big discrepancy, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And again...I am not having a problem in PVE. I am not asking for huge buffs, nor am I asking for Sorc to be nerfed. Just close the gap a bit out of fairness. Did I really ask for that much?

 

Just because I heal fine as is does not mean I couldn't be better.

[midnyt]

Lets try not to get off track by responding to close minded haters. If they don't have anything constructive to say than just bash and troll just ignore them. They have no numbers to prove their hate anyway.

 

Let's just get your personal numbers/computations up so we have more solid evidence on this issue.

 

Again, we are not asking to be at par with Sorcs in terms of raid/AoE healing but we want to have some sort of effective raid healing and not just a buff applier (which is what Kolto Missile is at the moment).

Edited February 7, 2012 by midnyt

[DukSaber]

I'll humor you and agree that you can heal double as much single target as a Sorc. Probably only under SCG, but whatever.

 

Now please go re-read the quoted portion of the OP and tell me how that is anywhere near only double. Or come up with your own calculations to refute the numbers there.

 

Then factor in the bubbles that allow damage avoidance, an interrupt, a battle rez, extrication, a better healing resource mechanic, etc.

 

If you don't see a big discrepancy, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

And again...I am not having a problem in PVE. I am not asking for huge buffs, nor am I asking for Sorc to be nerfed. Just close the gap a bit out of fairness. Did I really ask for that much?

 

Just because I heal fine as is does not mean I couldn't be better.

 

 

So you basically want all the abilities of a sorc with tank heals. lol. I think that the more differences among the classes the better. The more bioware listens to players like you, the more stale the game will become.

[midnyt]

So you basically want all the abilities of a sorc with tank heals. lol. I think that the more differences among the classes the better. The more bioware listens to players like you, the more stale the game will become.

 

You're obviously not reading nor even trying to understand what we are trying to point out here. We are not asking for Sorc heals. We just want some effective raid/AoE healing. Something we can actually call an AoE heal and not just a buff applier with a sprinkle of healing done.

 

If you have nothing constructive to say whether its for or against the topic then troll another thread please. Thanks.

Edited February 7, 2012 by midnyt

[TempestasSilva]

Lets try not to get off track by responding to close minded haters. If they don't have anything constructive to say than just bash and troll just ignore them. They have no numbers to prove their hate anyway.

 

Sorry, I don't meant to feed the trolls, I just keep getting sucked in. I think that if I keep trying, they will actually become part of a dialog. My thinking is obviously Flawed.

[midnyt]

To also bring burst healing talk into the discussion, I'm going to start testing for that as well. I'll try and post those numbers as soon as I can get our Sorc healer online to do some testing.

 

If you can do your own tests and post them here it would help us a lot. Try and do tests with a Sorc that has the same or similar gear as you.

[DukSaber]

You're obviously not reading nor even trying to understand what we are trying to point out here. We are not asking for Sorc heals. We just want some effective raid/AoE healing. Something we can actually call an AoE heal and not just a buff applier with a sprinkle of healing done.

 

If you have nothing constructive to say whether its for or against the topic then troll another thread please. Thanks.

 

 

I was being pretty constructive....maybe you are just looking for everyone to agree with you? If you put a post on a board, you should expect there will be people that disagree. I think our single target with a 4-piece is so strong that we dont need a big aoe buff. I like that they are totally different in terms of aoe healing. It should be like that.

[midnyt]

I was being pretty constructive....maybe you are just looking for everyone to agree with you? If you put a post on a board, you should expect there will be people that disagree.

 

I'm looking for evidence and facts, not just opinions on whether something was "intended" or "the way it should be". Opinion != Facts.

 

I think our single target with a 4-piece is so strong that we dont need a big aoe buff. I like that they are totally different in terms of aoe healing. It should be like that.

 

But that is where there is an issue; the difference in burst/single-target healing between a Sorc and a Merc is miniscule compared to the difference in AoE/multi-target healing.

 

I'll be testing and posting some burst healing numbers to better show the difference Sorc and Merc healing.

[Cortjester]

Hey lets turn this into wow! Lets make all the classes exactly the same for pvp and screw the pve aspect.

 

Different classes do different things for a reason. Bodyguards are SINGLE TARGET healers. If you play the class correctly you can easily out heal any other class on a single target and never run out of resources.

 

If you dont like the way bodyguards play in pvp then go arsenal like every other BH and dominate people with butt rockets.

 

Dev's please dont turn this into wow. You have a great thing going with pve. Please dont ruin it.

[DukSaber]

I'm looking for evidence and facts, not just opinions on whether something was "intended" or "the way it should be". Opinion != Facts.

 

 

 

But that is where there is an issue; the difference in burst/single-target healing between a Sorc and a Merc is miniscule compared to the difference in AoE/multi-target healing.

 

I'll be testing and posting some burst healing numbers to better show the difference Sorc and Merc healing.

 

 

lol dont bother unless you have the gear. I got a feeling you dont. The only change id like to see is to make kolto missle a smart ability. Meaning that it will hit 3 targets with the lowest health. This would cut down on overhealing and would make the ability much more effective in raids. We do not need a buff to the ability though.

If you have the gear, you will see that kolto missle hits 3 people for around 1k. The upside is that each one can crit so ive seen plenty go off over 1500. Alot of time 1 of the 3 will crit, so you get 2 heals close to 1k and 1 heal for around 1500. Thats not insignificant for an aoe heal on a tank healer. For me,,i dont get why you need something more.

[gorstram]

lol dont bother unless you have the gear. I got a feeling you dont. The only change id like to see is to make kolto missle a smart ability. Meaning that it will hit 3 targets with the lowest health. This would cut down on overhealing and would make the ability much more effective in raids. We do not need a buff to the ability though.

If you have the gear, you will see that kolto missle hits 3 people for around 1k. The upside is that each one can crit so ive seen plenty go off over 1500. Alot of time 1 of the 3 will crit, so you get 2 heals close to 1k and 1 heal for around 1500. Thats not insignificant for an aoe heal on a tank healer. For me,,i dont get why you need something more.

 

Kolto missile = chain heal... I like it. Give this man a cupie doll. I would take this in a freakin' heart beat. But getting the coding in for something like this when half of the fixes they implement don't even work is going to damned near impossible.

 

This should be put on the parking lot for future consideration.

[midnyt]

lol dont bother unless you have the gear. I got a feeling you dont. The only change id like to see is to make kolto missle a smart ability. Meaning that it will hit 3 targets with the lowest health. This would cut down on overhealing and would make the ability much more effective in raids. We do not need a buff to the ability though.

If you have the gear, you will see that kolto missle hits 3 people for around 1k. The upside is that each one can crit so ive seen plenty go off over 1500. Alot of time 1 of the 3 will crit, so you get 2 heals close to 1k and 1 heal for around 1500. Thats not insignificant for an aoe heal on a tank healer. For me,,i dont get why you need something more.

 

Your Kolto Missile heals for 1k? and go a little above 1500 on crits? And you say I don't have gear. You're a comedian sir. My Kolto Missiles hit for 1.8k minimum and up to 2.5k-3.1k on crits. Go away troll.

[midnyt]

Kolto missile = chain heal... I like it. Give this man a cupie doll. I would take this in a freakin' heart beat. But getting the coding in for something like this when half of the fixes they implement don't even work is going to damned near impossible.

 

This should be put on the parking lot for future consideration.

 

Chain Heal (when properly geared) is a 1.0-1.5sec cast no CD (it's spammable) heal that hits 3-4 targets (when glyphed) with a smart healing mechanic. And even though the healing done is reduced per bounce the initial heal is so high (up to as high as a Healing Wave) that the reduced healing on the bounces is still a decent heal.

 

Kolto Missile is a instant cast 6 sec CD heal that hits 3 targets and does an average healing done of a non-crit Healing Scan. Even if you add a smart healing mechanic to it, it only potentially heals up to 3 people. That's 3 people every 6 seconds.

 

The mechanics of both heals may be similar but they are far apart in their effectiveness.

[Dartagon]

You're obviously not reading nor even trying to understand what we are trying to point out here. We are not asking for Sorc heals. We just want some effective raid/AoE healing. Something we can actually call an AoE heal and not just a buff applier with a sprinkle of healing done.

 

If you have nothing constructive to say whether its for or against the topic then troll another thread please. Thanks.

 

I think our AoE heal does exactly what its intended to do. Heal the Melee party in an OP. If you are using it for any other reason...bonus.

[germil]

I think our AoE heal does exactly what its intended to do. Heal the Melee party in an OP. If you are using it for any other reason...bonus.

 

Are you working for BW? You seem to have a good insight regarding design goals.

 

Anyway, the amount healed by sorc AOE is way off what other healer can produce. Small differences are fine and cool, but rigth know I don't see how one can see this as close to balanced.

 

It would have a meaning if sorc were not able to tank heal (outdated niche concept), but they can, and doing it they are less penalized by under-pressure heal phase.

[DomingoDarkrage]

Sorcs are great AE healers. Their AE hits a lot more targets and heals for more. We all know this already. If you want great AE heals, be a sorc. If you want to survive a bit of damage, be a mercenary. If you give mercs a much improved AE heal, then why would anyone want to be a healing sorc other than for hutball?

 

The differences between each healing class is what allows the usefulness of having diversity in a raid. Do you want 3 sorcs in your raid? Sure, there would be a lot of puddles down. But there would never be +10% absoption on your tank when the boss frenzies, nor the hots of a operative.

 

I only have problems healing in a flashpoints when my groupmates stand in fire, dont move out of the way, or do not gain aggro. I only have problems in an OP when the members stand in fire, don't more out of the way, or do not gain aggro. I'd like Kolto missile to hit more people, and heal for more, but i use kolto missile more for the added benifits rather than the small heal.

[Majo_NDM]

Im merc healer and I agree that we need better aoe heal ability.

On HM FPs its ok, good enought, if u r fast and u know how to manage heat its no problem to keep party members alive.

 

But when we talk about raids where many bosses have huge and many aoe abilities its super hard to heal as a merc healer. Accually raiding without sorc healer in group is sometimes impossible - hardmode operations. Our kolto has small area effect, on raids ppl are split, bosses are BIG and its even impossible many times to heal tank + dps on boss backs useing kolto... Ppl are runing, escapes boss aoes, and malee attacks... Kolto casting time is long, we shoot and ups... 1 ppl get heal for aprox 1200... not those I wanted... someone died... ups wipe because of me...

 

My rideing group have me as a merc healer and operativ healer. We all overgear normal mode but on fights like with anihilator droid in EV its extreamly hard to keep ppl alive.

 

I think its unfair that raiding without sorc healer (as It could be separate class - tanks, dps', healers, sorc healers) is so hard.

 

My personal opinion/idea is that operativs aoe heal should be better or have better hot effect and merc kolto missle should heal 4 party members, less instant heal but with long hot effect.

 

 

Its funny we have no combat log and dps/heal meters. If we had those Im sure numbers could be like 4:1 for sorc healers and than noone would want us - merc healers in party (on normal 8s for sure).

[midnyt]

To all the recent replies, I find you all have one thing that you clearly misunderstand regarding the whole purpose or goal of this thread.

 

We are not looking to be at par with Sorcs as to make them obsolete. We are also not looking for a BIG buff to AoE healing. It clearly states on the threat title that we merely looking for a SLIGHT buff to our effective AoE healing.

 

We'd be happy with an additional target or two for Kolto Missile for starters.

 

The option would be to increase our single-target healing to widen the gap between merc single-target and sorc single-target healing because, currently, that gap compared to the gap between merc AoE and sorc AoE healing is miniscule.

[TempestasSilva]

The option would be to increase our single-target healing to widen the gap between merc single-target and sorc single-target healing because, currently, that gap compared to the gap between merc AoE and sorc AoE healing is miniscule.

 

I don't like this option, because:

1) I don't want to "nerf" anyone.

2) I would hate to see Sorcs start having trouble healing flahpoints and such because their single target healing was reduced.

 

 

And I totally understand your intent and will reiterate:

 

WE ARE NOT ASKING TO AOE HEAL LIKE SORCs.

 

WE ARE NOT SAYING BHs ARE BROKEN.

 

 

Just simply make our AoE a *little" better. Maybe even make Rapid scan do 50% splash healing of 2 or 3 targets w/in 10meters while in SCG.

 

I still like just making KM a smart heal, too.

 

And I think we need a utility buff. I won't reiterate my whole argument, but not having an in-combat rez alone is retarded. Its simply punishing Mercs in FPs as in OPs there is likely someone else that can (hopefully not the one needing rezzed lol)

 

Same with not having an interrupt. Lame.

 

Do I feel I can't heal without these changes? nope. I heal fine. But I pay my $$ per month just like the other healing classes, why do I get less for it?

 

 

BTW: I love our resident troll. He makes me laugh. He argues facts with opinions. Finally, he offers a fact and its fail (My gear is cruddy and my KM crits for over 2k). Then he posts saying we should have a smart component to our AOE heal which is what we were asking for and he was arguing against.

Then he makes a counter thread that BH is fine and nothing needs to be fixed and later starts arguing that we are broken, lack burst healing, and he hasn't gotten into groups because hes a Merc Healer and no one wants them.

WOW LOL LOL LOL

Edited February 8, 2012 by TempestasSilva

[midnyt]

Yup, I saw his recent post as well. Fail troll is fail troll. Personally, I haven't had trouble getting into any group or any trouble out-healing any encounter. It's all about knowing where the burst points are and when to time an overheat then use Vent Heat.

 

Anyway, the buff to our burst healing that I was referring to was #2 & #3 in my opening post. We need Kolto Residue to do a bit more extra healing and our Kolto Shell to do actual heals not just pats in the back to whoever we cast it on and at the same time not give us aggro (it gives us aggro whenever a mob hits the person we cast it on).

 

Personally, I don't mind not having an interrupt or a battle rez because it saves us a GCDs that we need to keep up our consistent burst healing on the tank/ops. It would be cool to have them but not currently a necessity. It also gives the other members of the party something important to do other than pew pew LOL.

 

 

1) Increase Kolto Missile healing done by 10-20% and max number of targets to 4 or 5.

 

2) Increase Kolto Residue effect from 5% to 10%.

 

3) Increase healing done by Kolto Shell by 50-70%.

 

Edited February 9, 2012 by midnyt

[Moosimoo]

I only read the first page, but here are my thoughts.

 

(I am a BG with around 17% alacrity including the proc, full PvP gear, just under 1500 Aim, 30% crit and 60% surge)

 

I find that healing HM's is generally ok, just enough abilities to get the job done (in typical BH style). I do agree that our AOE healing is pretty lame though. Koltor Missile is only used for a buff and small shield, its healing is very low. I'd like more power applied to this ability.

 

Under pressure we can pop SCGC and apply very nice burst healing, but if thats not enough we're really screwed. Then again, if there is that much dmg incoming its a lost cause already.

 

Originally Posted by midnyt

 

1) Increase Kolto Missile healing done by 10-20% and max number of targets to 4 or 5.

 

2) Increase Kolto Residue effect from 5% to 10%.

 

3) Increase healing done by Kolto Shell by 50-70%.

 

/signed

Edited February 9, 2012 by Moosimoo

[Dartagon]

I only read the first page, but here are my thoughts.

 

(I am a BG with around 17% alacrity including the proc, full PvP gear, just under 1500 Aim, 30% crit and 60% surge)

 

I find that healing HM's is generally ok, just enough abilities to get the job done (in typical BH style). I do agree that our AOE healing is pretty lame though. Koltor Missile is only used for a buff and small shield, its healing is very low. I'd like more power applied to this ability.

 

Under pressure we can pop SCGC and apply very nice burst healing, but if thats not enough we're really screwed. Then again, if there is that much dmg incoming its a lost cause already.

 

 

 

/signed

 

I still don't see the need to change the bodyguard or increase its healing. I think that we are optimal in terms of balance. Right now, we can heal through any of the content on any difficulty.

 

I think the biggest problem is that people expect to heal through mechanics that either the DPS aren't avoiding or the tank isn't.

 

We bring a very strong burst heal to any party and that can't be overlooked.

 

In OPs you should be making the case that you heal the maintank + the melee. I've found that we are super effective at this role.

 

Making any of the changes described in this post would effectively make my job ridiculously easy. Already in HM FPs I hardly heal and I spend most of my time DPSing. Most fights I can, Kolto Shell, Missile and quickshots spam through the trash pulls and most bosses.

 

Again, if you are using Kolto missle to try and heal your whole ops up, you're not really seeing how the effectiveness of the missile works and you want it to be something that its not. I don't have to be a BW employee to see that.

 

I have yet to see a fight where AoE healing is even required in any of the OPs and even in the case where you want to AoE heal. The melee don't group w/ the ranged, hence why the bodyguard should be focused on the tank and the melee group.

 

To reiterate, I think we are really well tuned and balanced for the content currently released.

[TempestasSilva]

The argument you are making is like this:

You go to a bakery and two people in line in front of you each pay $3 for a slice of cake. You pay $3 for a slice of cake, but your cake comes with no frosting. Then you say, "Well, the cake still tastes good, and the frosting would make me fat, so its cool."

 

We are saying that while the cake is good, it would be better with frosting.

 

To keep on with this poor analogy:

 

Some people seem to think we are saying that all three people should have gotten yellow cake with chocolate frosting.

 

What we are really saying is its cool that the first guy got Chocolate cake with chocolate frosting, and the second guy got devilsfood cake with dark chocolate frosting, and we get carrot cake. BUT, why the hell didn't we get frosting?

[Dartagon]

The argument you are making is like this:

You go to a bakery and two people in line in front of you each pay $3 for a slice of cake. You pay $3 for a slice of cake, but your cake comes with no frosting. Then you say, "Well, the cake still tastes good, and the frosting would make me fat, so its cool."

 

We are saying that while the cake is good, it would be better with frosting.

 

To keep on with this poor analogy:

 

Some people seem to think we are saying that all three people should have gotten yellow cake with chocolate frosting.

 

What we are really saying is its cool that the first guy got Chocolate cake with chocolate frosting, and the second guy got devilsfood cake with dark chocolate frosting, and we get carrot cake. BUT, why the hell didn't we get frosting?

 

I think a better analogy is that we all paid $3 dollars. We got PIE while the other got CAKE. Then you start to wonder why the pie can't taste more like cake.