5k crits, and the myth sorcs don't have burst.

[_Minmaxer_]

(Hi. I hope my English will be good enough, please excuse any mistakes ^^)

 

_Minmaxer_, I'm pretty interrested in your tree build. But there are some things I would like to ask.

 

First, considering the damage output, I think the "hybrid sorcerer" is clearly one of the best. I've played hybrid for a month, it's very dependant on gear, but efficient. But concerning the burst ... OK, with recklessness, wrath-chain lightning then death field and shock (double shock is possible), the target won't have to suffer for long. But did you consider the burst capability of lightning barrage ?

 

Well, it's not easy to use, as it's a proc, and a rare one (wrath will often proc quickly after 1 or 2 FL, but lightning barrage is not so reliable). You need a crit on one dot, but recklessness don't work on dots. The solution is to prepare by putting 2 or 3 dots on differents, uninteresting targets, then attack your target. You need preparation, but it's highly efficient, giving 1 ou 2 FL (if you're quick enough) at 50% alacrity, and a nearly garanted Wrath proc at the end.

 

 

Second, with such a build, do you happen to be low on force ? I wanted to try a similar build, but I feared I would be out of Force at some point, having only Electric induction, Reserve & Sith Efficacy. I like Lightning Efflusion, but this skill is too expensive to take in a 3-hybrid build.

 

 

Third, did you consider Empty body ? I guessed empty body would be more efficient with the hot, but Lucidity allows you to cast reliable Dark Infusion. So, how do you manage your heals ? Do you prefers to use Resurgence and slowly recover you heath while you keep attacking, or do you use Resurgence only to proc and cast a fast Dark Infusion ?

Your English is good, no concerns there.

 

I tried lightning barrage but it seemed too random, and tab dotting is hardly an efficient use of set-up time. As I mentioned earlier affliction just feels week. Other specs make it far more viable. It also makes all those players immune to full duration whirlwind. I definitely prefer force lightning (good damage) to proc wrath.

 

Force management is not free in this spec...you actually have to manage it. You can't spam bubble on everyone, but you can use it as needed. I often use consumption before grabbing a green buff, or grabbing a few seconds of Seethe if I feel myself getting low. Killing people quickly also means you drop combat quickly. The only time I go completely out of force are 3-5minute fights where I am dpsing and healing with absolutely no break.

 

I would take empty body if there were not better choices at that level of the tree. 75% reduced setback and 10% more damage are better in my opinion. For healing I put a hot on myself when hurt, or allies at 80% as I run past. If I'm low on force, allies don't get extra hots. If I'm kitting I will use Resurgence on CD to keep myself topped off, even if the hot portion is still ticking. Dark Infusion I almost exclusive cast out of LoS of enemies, the only time I consider casting it otherwise is with the force bending buff or when not targeted and healing allies.

[Anelyn]

The heck you talking about?!?

 

Patch notes on Deathfield: Death Field: Heals the caster for 1% of maximum health for each target struck. This healing effect can no longer crit and no longer consumes Recklessness charges.

 

The *healing* effect can no longer crit, the damage portion is unchanged.

 

Odd that my DF never heals for 1% per target hit, but always same amount. I can use DF with no target and I get 174 hp back. I can use DF with 3 targets and get same 1x 174 hp back. This is with full madness (31) and all health improvement talents in tree.

[Anelyn]

Also a quick note, Creeping Terror is not a stun, but imobilize / root effect which doesn't add to resolve (tested it earier in several WZs) the target continues their action like casting shooting w/e during the root but they cannot move (best counter for force speed ). And it deals 1st tick of dmg when applied which is a nice thing.

 

What I don't like and probably this needs further testing (out of $$$ to respec again now), I went full lightning to try TB (and is crap), then before going back madness I checked my dot portion dmg of CD without the extra 2 seconds from talent. Same dmg displayed on tooltip after increasing duration by 2s to 8s total. Bugged tooltip or dmg is same but spread over longer duration, meaning smaller ticks? If that's the case I can't see a good reason to pick exsanguinate from lightning which would add 2 ticks to affliction if dmg stay same.... Any input? Thanks.

[Nenyx]

I tried lightning barrage but it seemed too random, and tab dotting is hardly an efficient use of set-up time. As I mentioned earlier affliction just feels week. Other specs make it far more viable. It also makes all those players immune to full duration whirlwind. I definitely prefer force lightning (good damage) to proc wrath.

 

Force management is not free in this spec...you actually have to manage it. You can't spam bubble on everyone, but you can use it as needed. I often use consumption before grabbing a green buff, or grabbing a few seconds of Seethe if I feel myself getting low. Killing people quickly also means you drop combat quickly. The only time I go completely out of force are 3-5minute fights where I am dpsing and healing with absolutely no break.

 

I would take empty body if there were not better choices at that level of the tree. 75% reduced setback and 10% more damage are better in my opinion. For healing I put a hot on myself when hurt, or allies at 80% as I run past. If I'm low on force, allies don't get extra hots. If I'm kitting I will use Resurgence on CD to keep myself topped off, even if the hot portion is still ticking. Dark Infusion I almost exclusive cast out of LoS of enemies, the only time I consider casting it otherwise is with the force bending buff or when not targeted and healing allies.

 

True, lightning barrage IS random. Very efficient IMHO when you're lucky enough to have the proc when you need it, simply useless when you don't ... I often use enemies like tanks, stealths, to put some dots on them. I know some of them will be targeted by pickups anyway, so wirldwind on them is out of question, and on stealths it's a double benefit. Don't know if it's a glich, but you can often cast FL twice with a buff, and sometimes have another proc very soon and recast FL twice, dealing a considerable amount of damages. It seems the "only one proc out of 10 seconds" applys to the buff proc, and not to the use of the buff, so that if you wait for 6-7s after the proc before casting FL, you may have another proc soon after the 10s elapsed - so just after your 2nd FL finished.

 

Affliction doesn't feel weak in a hybrid build, affliction IS weak What's the point of spending 1,5s (GCD) to do 1440 damage on 15s when you can spend 1,5s (half channeling) doing immediately 1350 damages with FL ? (These are my tooltips' values with a sith warrior's buff). The only benefits we gain, hybrids, are 1. counter stealth/vanish, 2. deal damages while moving, 3.

 

OK for Force management. I guess it's more strategy to do, you simply have to know when you can fight and when you need to recover a little.

 

Thanks for your reply. May I ask you how you consider your character, with this build, when fighting another classes ? Who are easy targets, who are really dangerous ?

 

 

@Anelyn

I tried exsanguinate. In fact, the tooltip is bugged. Each rank in exsanguinate gives you another tick. Each tick deals the same damages as before, so you're essentialy gainning damages, that is, if your affliction stays over 15s on the same target. So exsanguinate works as intended, but not the tooltip.

Didn't tested it for crushing damage, but I guess it's the same.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Nenyx

[Raideen]

Also a quick note, Creeping Terror is not a stun, but imobilize / root effect which doesn't add to resolve (tested it earier in several WZs) the target continues their action like casting shooting w/e during the root but they cannot move (best counter for force speed ). And it deals 1st tick of dmg when applied which is a nice thing.

 

What I don't like and probably this needs further testing (out of $$$ to respec again now), I went full lightning to try TB (and is crap), then before going back madness I checked my dot portion dmg of CD without the extra 2 seconds from talent. Same dmg displayed on tooltip after increasing duration by 2s to 8s total. Bugged tooltip or dmg is same but spread over longer duration, meaning smaller ticks? If that's the case I can't see a good reason to pick exsanguinate from lightning which would add 2 ticks to affliction if dmg stay same.... Any input? Thanks.

 

 

you increase the time of affliction for its ability to keep people off the door or capping a node in civil war

[projeKte]

I use http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201G0bZrs0MdMzZcrzRsMz.1 instead and I never run out of force and can spam every / any skill I have non stop. With the right gear it's so OP it's not even funny. I broke 430-450k dmg and 50+ kills with less than 10 deaths pugging in losses and wins. I often see crits of 4.5k+ on CL. I've seen heal crits for 5.1k as well.

[_Minmaxer_]

Thanks for your reply. May I ask you how you consider your character, with this build, when fighting another classes ? Who are easy targets, who are really dangerous ?

 

I'm not afraid to go up against any class 1v1. Any loss can be generally be attributed to some mistake on my part. Lack of wrath procs can sometimes happen, but you can't really attribute a loss to that. What really makes the difference player skill. I will walk all over any unskilled player, but a good player that knows their respective class will always be a good fight. I prefer to target lighter armor classes because I noticed a significant damage difference when attacking them. The most dangerous are melee classes whose snare I can't purge.

 

I use http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201G0bZrs0MdMzZcrzRsMz.1 instead and I never run out of force and can spam every / any skill I have non stop. With the right gear it's so OP it's not even funny. I broke 430-450k dmg and 50+ kills with less than 10 deaths pugging in losses and wins. I often see crits of 4.5k+ on CL. I've seen heal crits for 5.1k as well.

 

I'll take far superior healing and managing force myself over a lackluster root and having to include affliction in my rotation. My Dark Infusion crits as high as 5.4-5.6 with trauma (I don't pop buffs with the debuff off). I consider 3 deaths a horrible game on my part and as I primarily solo queue I don't really know the love of having a dedicated guard or healbot. Whenever I do receive guard or heals I pretty much feel unkillable.

[dollarfiveo]

rofl lackluster root? how is a 5 second aoe root lackluster on a 20 second cd.

 

and "manage my force myself" ?????? that doesn't really make any sense. managing force=doing less than you could if you had more force.

[_Minmaxer_]

rofl lackluster root? how is a 5 second aoe root lackluster on a 20 second cd.

 

and "manage my force myself" ?????? that doesn't really make any sense. managing force=doing less than you could if you had more force.

 

The root is only 2 seconds if any damage is dealt, and it is lackluster compared to having an instant heal that procs a decrease in cast time of our main heal. Is the root useless no? But if you are already split into 3 trees than there are better things to do with the talent points.

 

Manage force myself = using my abilities such that I maximize what I get out of every force point I spend instead of relying on a 50% chance of a 30% to reduce the cost of my next two abilities. One method breeds awareness, the other breeds laziness. Which is better?

[Nenyx]

I'm not afraid to go up against any class 1v1. Any loss can be generally be attributed to some mistake on my part. Lack of wrath procs can sometimes happen, but you can't really attribute a loss to that. What really makes the difference player skill. I will walk all over any unskilled player, but a good player that knows their respective class will always be a good fight. I prefer to target lighter armor classes because I noticed a significant damage difference when attacking them. The most dangerous are melee classes whose snare I can't purge.

.

 

Well, of course. We do mainly energetic (all lightning attacks) and internal (dots) damages. Some attacks do cinetic, but we don't use them for their damages anyway.

 

And energetic damages ARE reduced by armor. So if you're attacking a tank in tank stance, you can easily face more than 50% damage reduction. Force lightning and chain lightning are both energetic ... Try going with a tank sith warrior ^^

[projeKte]

He's the same guy I see hiding behind a pillar 'managing his force' while I'm out healing allies, bubbling teammates, and destroying the other team. Keep 'managing that force' bro! Makes you a real team asset ... not.

 

P.s. I rarely use affliction unless I get bored ... It's just there to get to effusion in the spec.

Edited February 7, 2012 by projeKte

[dollarfiveo]

He's the same guy I see hiding behind a pillar 'managing his force' while I'm out healing allies, bubbling teammates, and destroying the other team. Keep 'managing that force' bro! Makes you a real team asset ... not.

 

pretty much. and it's not like it's that hard to just... not do damage to people once you knock them back

[projeKte]

pretty much. and it's not like it's that hard to just... not do damage to people once you knock them back

 

Lol, so true. I tried the specs where I was 'managing my force' ... I was essentially doing less damage and healing. If you want to make yourself less useful, by all means go for it.

[pinkfreudHC]

Affliction is great, don't see why you guys wouldn't use it.

 

DoTs prevent capping for the entire duration. Affliction lets you shut down an entire team of cappers for a long time.

[dollarfiveo]

also lightning barrage is some of the strongest burst we have

[Nenyx]

Affliction is great, don't see why you guys wouldn't use it.

 

DoTs prevent capping for the entire duration. Affliction lets you shut down an entire team of cappers for a long time.

 

Well ... Affliction is good for tactics, but bad for damages (hybrid sorcerer - not true for x/31/y nor x/y/31)

[Anelyn]

More thoughts:

 

Just did a row of WZs at 41, as full madness (31 pt). Is amazing. Burst is a bit rng outside of recklesness / power trinket and exp andrenal. But the dmg is very solid. I went 1v1 versus different classes and specs lvl 40+ peeps. Healers who pillar and cleanse are not worth your time (yes you can kill them, but you waste time around pillar instead of helping your team and nuke them when they come out to heal).

 

Anything else dies, you just need to play to your class strength. Don't stay out in middle duking it out with a merc or sniper even if you interrupt merc TM spam, you don't have the armor / defenses to outdmg them in a short spawn of time, use los, stun, interrupts, knockback. Melee: easiest to deal with, no matter spec. Between force slow, knockback, CT root and pillars, they can never get you. I had rage marauders / juggs never landing a smash on me or dealing any dmg outside of jugg saber throw, and their charge dmg. Assassin? Piece of cake, force them to vanish, pop them out with DF or force storm, keep dots up, make sure to have stun CT up for their sprint, and they will never get within 10m to use their snare or ranged abilities (unless you let them in order to knock them). Same with operatives.

 

Other sorcs: if they are lightning, don't let them turret you in open, nor cast thundering blast (or cleanse yourself of affliction in middle of their cast). If they are hybrid, cleanse their dots and keep them snared, pressure them, abuse the root on CT for los to heal or dot and pop back etc.

 

I really love the spec. 3 internal dmg dealing abilities, 2 being dots which you can keep on more than 1 target if so you desire, good battlefield control (hi instant WW on ball carrier when he is on fire platform, so as soon as fire hits, he's stunned 2 more secs etc ).

 

Never had force problems, I make 7 medals easy in all games without trying, I play for team / objectives always.

[_Minmaxer_]

Affliction is great, don't see why you guys wouldn't use it.

 

DoTs prevent capping for the entire duration. Affliction lets you shut down an entire team of cappers for a long time.

 

Affliction has its applications, and I use it a lot, but not as a dps skill in a hybrid . Only takes one sage (can another healer spec to remove force abilities?) to purge the dot and allow for capping.

 

As for my contribution to the team? I actually just afk warzones so I can theorycraft on the forums. I could post a couple screenshots of scoreboards, but that doesn't really mean a lot. (Though I am proud of my 13 medal game). Maybe some people from my server will stumble upon this thread and defend my team play, but it doesn't really matter to me. I just put this thread out here so people could see a different way to play the class, what they do with that is up to them.

[Karkais]

At the very least I expect wrath to be given the "This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds" treatment. I don't think they are to the point of adjusting skill position in trees yet.

 

Well I love playing the hybrid spec, but in my opinion the problems are:

 

- the toptier powers arent strong enough

- Lightning tree doesnt really feel at all great without wrath from madness. The cast times just feel too hideous.

 

Its like the the trees are designed to be made hybrid. Being exclusively one tree doesnt offer enough benefits, bioware should buff the toptier stuff of the trees to make them more lucrative. Creeping terror just looks way too weak.

[dollarfiveo]

if you have lightning barrage, which you should, affliction should be up just about all the time

[Anelyn]

Well I love playing the hybrid spec, but in my opinion the problems are:

 

- the toptier powers arent strong enough

- Lightning tree doesnt really feel at all great without wrath from madness. The cast times just feel too hideous.

 

Its like the the trees are designed to be made hybrid. Being exclusively one tree doesnt offer enough benefits, bioware should buff the toptier stuff of the trees to make them more lucrative. Creeping terror just looks way too weak.

 

CT is great, every 9s you get a 2s root that doesn't break on dmg, which deals internal dmg and is boosted by deathmark and 30% crit dmg.

 

Keep in mind madness is about high sustained dmg / pressure not burst.

[_Minmaxer_]

For those wanting pics.

 

Do I help my team? Some people think so:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/screenshot2012020721100.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/screenshot2012020720222.jpg/

 

5k damage:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/screenshot2012020520080.jpg/

[Lasti]

hmm kk pre 1.1?

[_Minmaxer_]

hmm kk pre 1.1?

 

Nope all recent, the 5k hit was from Feb 5th, the other two are from Feb 7th.

[Bialaska]

I'm personally using this hybrid:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201hZfc0MdRrZcMcRsMz.1

 

Running out of force is a thing of the past. I don't think I've ever been below 95% force in that spec, it's just crazy efficient.

 

I start the fight by using Affliction. Sure the damage of affliction is horrible, but it is done to trigger lightning barrage. Follow up with a death field. Then start unleashing your full power using force lightning, shock and chain lightning and when wrath is procced and cl is on cooldown, crushing darkness.

 

I have focused a lot on the critical rating to get this working, having around 35% critical chance, so more or less all my powers are cast with lightning effusion (half cost) and force lightning gives 6 force each tick of damage.