Why does SWTOR and all MMOs follow the faction pattern?

[Mantiszz]

I think SWTOR, with the ablity to change dark/light affiliation could have been the first 'big' game to remove the idea of factions altogether.

 

You could have had everyone starting in the same area for their class and progress through the game together. It would have doubled the number of people you can group with, would have stopped the number of times people have rolled one side just to be with friends/guilds.

 

You could have then chosen light/dark side (or neutral) which would have opened up more quests/gear/mounts/planets. Everyone can group up and join guilds together but maybe dark/light people have debuffs when healing/guarding each other.

 

What are peoples thought on this, as faction balance is a key issue on either game start or at some point in the game. Do we really need it?

[Llaera]

It wouldn't have really worked very well for a Star Wars MMO. I mean, unless literally everyone is playing Republic side with the Empire as the enemy NPCs, which would likely turn off a lot of players.

 

That said, it would've been rather interesting to have had a neutral faction for Bounty Hunters and Smugglers that would warrant them quests from both sides. They'd be able to decide whether to just chase credits, or whether they liked one side's agenda better than the other, add potential for acting as a double-agent between the two sides, etc. It would've added a lot of complicated coding, however.

[DarthFreki]

because everyone wants a good vs evil definition for sides. but you won't get what you want in many games though i can share a few that will come close: Everquest and Everquest II. still have good and evil factions.. just have the ability to start where you want in the good/evil places.

 

Darth Freki

[Abanoth]

Yeah the faction system bugs me too because it completely rips up the star wars universe. "300 hundred years after KOTOR a bunch of Sith, Mandalorians and Space Brits herp-derped their way out of nowhere and started messing stuff up. They really love Huttball."

 

Why did we even need a sith Empire? The Republic became the Empire at the end of the prequels so it's like we're playing a story where Vader and the Emperor said, "eh, we're never gonna stamp out this Rebellion, in fact the only people we can beat are ourselves, let's hop in a time machine and do just that."

 

If there had to be a two faction system (and there always must be because WoW did it) they could have made it two factions within the republic fighting it out that would let players decide which side they were on via lightside/darkside choices.

 

In regards to that, I'd rather play my villain toons for the Hutts than the Empire. After playing through some sith class storylines, I'm really not that impressed with this batch. "Ok, it's time to murder your superior but it's gotta look like an accident because the *new* Sith are forbidden from killing each other." To hell with that. The Dark Lords on Korriban must be spinning in their tombs right now.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Abanoth

[PibbyPib]

That's actually a really cool idea. One giant community until you join a PvP warzone or make some sort of official split somewhere down the line.

[Abanoth]

One giant community until you join a PvP warzone or make some sort of official split somewhere down the line.

 

Funny thing about warzones is that the same-faction matchups that BW plans to extend to all of them besides Huttball totally proves how useless and detrimental a two-sided MMO is. Empire play each other because they're overpopulated and at times I've even been matched against other Republic a few times (nothing like seeing a fellow guild member hacking at you with a lightsaber).

Edited February 6, 2012 by Abanoth

[Idali]

You know, thats how SWG did it.

You started out as neutral and later you could join a faction, reb or imp. And if you where unhappy with it defect to the other side as well.

[Zirithil]

I think SWTOR, with the ablity to change dark/light affiliation could have been the first 'big' game to remove the idea of factions altogether.

 

You could have had everyone starting in the same area for their class and progress through the game together. It would have doubled the number of people you can group with, would have stopped the number of times people have rolled one side just to be with friends/guilds.

 

You could have then chosen light/dark side (or neutral) which would have opened up more quests/gear/mounts/planets. Everyone can group up and join guilds together but maybe dark/light people have debuffs when healing/guarding each other.

 

What are peoples thought on this, as faction balance is a key issue on either game start or at some point in the game. Do we really need it?

 

I am going to say what I usually say: This is not an original game at all. It's not just about the factions, it' about the whole game; they could've created some unique and lovely but they were simply too lazy or too money hungry to stray from the "generic path".

[jontyld]

I'll admit every MMO does not need to follow the 2 faction model, but this one did.

[gregordunbar]

I think SWTOR, with the ablity to change dark/light affiliation could have been the first 'big' game to remove the idea of factions altogether.

 

Or, you could learn more about MMORPGs and find out you are wrong.

 

Lineage 1, first game ever to have not only more than 1 million but over 3 million players, no factions.

 

Atlantica Online, no factions had several million players at its peak.

 

Guild Wars...haha, no factions.

 

Runes of Magic, no factions over 4 million players at its peak.

 

There have been plenty of games with no factions, its not a new idea, even the first true 3D MMORPGs, Meridian 59 Ultima Online did not have factions, the first non 3D MMOs like The Realm and even NWNO back in 1991 did not have factions... It would not in any way make sense for a story about a war having all players start on the same world and same side.

 

A real first would be for a game with two sides like this to allow players to switch sides.

[Mantiszz]

Or, you could learn more about MMORPGs and find out you are wrong.

 

Lineage 1, first game ever to have not only more than 1 million but over 3 million players, no factions.

 

Atlantica Online, no factions had several million players at its peak.

 

Guild Wars...haha, no factions.

 

Runes of Magic, no factions over 4 million players at its peak.

 

There have been plenty of games with no factions, its not a new idea, even the first true 3D MMORPGs, Meridian 59 Ultima Online did not have factions, the first non 3D MMOs like The Realm and even NWNO back in 1991 did not have factions... It would not in any way make sense for a story about a war having all players start on the same world and same side.

 

A real first would be for a game with two sides like this to allow players to switch sides.

 

Well you get 10/10 for you point, but 1/10 for it actually meaning anything. Firstly the numbers for NA/Europe are well below that and secondly, they are all free to play.

 

Why can;t you start in the same areas, there is no difference between bounty hunter and trooper except one joined the army, the other probably enlisted and had basic training and then went killing people for money.

 

Maybe your dark/light side choices could have decided which one you were.

 

This was prompted by the fact that there is actually no real reason to roll either side on this game other than looks/preferences/storyline and that wouldn't be affected by a single faction or two.

 

Noting also that in rift you can now join the enemy side in warfronts to reduce Q's.

 

The only issue you'd need to resolve is open world PVP, but even then, apart from sporadic ganking and zerging there is none in games at the moment.

[gregordunbar]

Well you get 10/10 for you point, but 1/10 for it actually meaning anything. Firstly the numbers for NA/Europe are well below that and secondly, they are all free to play.

 

Why can;t you start in the same areas, there is no difference between bounty hunter and trooper except one joined the army, the other probably enlisted and had basic training and then went killing people for money.

 

Maybe your dark/light side choices could have decided which one you were.

 

This was prompted by the fact that there is actually no real reason to roll either side on this game other than looks/preferences/storyline and that wouldn't be affected by a single faction or two.

 

Noting also that in rift you can now join the enemy side in warfronts to reduce Q's.

 

The only issue you'd need to resolve is open world PVP, but even then, apart from sporadic ganking and zerging there is none in games at the moment.

 

In other words you are going to dismiss anything anyone says that does not fall in line with your thinking. There is no point to your thread then because you even ignored the fix to one of your issues.

 

Continue talking to yourself, cause that is all you are really doing here.

[Riotus]

Yeah the faction system bugs me too because it completely rips up the star wars universe. "300 hundred years after KOTOR a bunch of Sith, Mandalorians and Space Brits herp-derped their way out of nowhere and started messing stuff up. They really love Huttball."

 

Why did we even need a sith Empire? The Republic became the Empire at the end of the prequels so it's like we're playing a story where Vader and the Emperor said, "eh, we're never gonna stamp out this Rebellion, in fact the only people we can beat are ourselves, let's hop in a time machine and do just that."

 

If there had to be a two faction system (and there always must be because WoW did it) they could have made it two factions within the republic fighting it out that would let players decide which side they were on via lightside/darkside choices.

 

In regards to that, I'd rather play my villain toons for the Hutts than the Empire. After playing through some sith class storylines, I'm really not that impressed with this batch. "Ok, it's time to murder your superior but it's gotta look like an accident because the *new* Sith are forbidden from killing each other." To hell with that. The Dark Lords on Korriban must be spinning in their tombs right now.

 

I find your lack of knowledge distrubing.

 

Read the revan book. all your questions about the sith empire will be answered.

[Zannis]

World PvP is why. The only way you could get rid of factions would be to release an MMO that has no PvP, only co-op play modes. Major developers won't do this since they're trying to bag as many customers as possible. It's always possible an indie developer might decide to try and target a niche PvE market provided it hasn't been done already. Edited February 6, 2012 by Zannis

[RocketbootsMOFO]

I am going to say what I usually say: This is not an original game at all. It's not just about the factions, it' about the whole game; they could've created some unique and lovely but they were simply too lazy or too money hungry to stray from the "generic path".

 

They tried 'new and original' with SWG if you recall. It fell into the average category of 200k subs. They wanted more and tried to create what SWTOR is now. They now have the game they always wanted. Good on them, let's see if it lasts 8 years.

 

People/gamers don't seem to be interested in new and original. They want the same pre-packaged crap since WoW. Evidently it works.

 

I personally think it will kill the genre, but who listens to people like me? Eventually the concept of raids will become stale, endgame will hold no interest, and the entire idea will die. If no more new and original ideas are implemented, the genre may die.

[Soshla]

World PvP is why. The only way you could get rid of factions would be to release an MMO that has no PvP, only co-op play modes. Major developers won't do this since they're trying to bag as many customers as possible. It's always possible an indie developer might decide to try and target a niche PvE market provided it hasn't been done already.

World PvP is a joke in most MMOs and it's a joke in SWTOR. Almost all endgame PvP is instanced, and the factions are purposely kept apart from each other in leveling zones.

 

I'd love to see a defect skill, how many NPC characters have done it?

[MGriffith]

A real first would be for a game with two sides like this to allow players to switch sides.

 

Nope.

 

Everquest 2 already has that. As does City of Heroes.

[SithZigg]

On paper, it sounds like a brilliant idea, until you actually stop and think about it. Logistically speaking, this would be a nightmare; since the devs would have no idea in which direction you would be taking your character, every Voice Actor would have to do a VO for every single quest. Not only would it be a lot of work for the people doing the recording and editing, but it would put a strain on the Voice Actors as well.

 

And think about this story wise; would either group just let you flippantly go to the other side, right after you just did a mission for them? You just got the "Lord" title for your Sith, and now you switching sides. Your character has become *insert prestigious Imperial/Republic* title, but you decide to leave. The stories (even the player made ones) would be trivial and meaningless. Stories require structure, and there is no structure with this "go where ever you want" idea.

[Pengatron]

but they were simply too lazy or too money hungry to stray from the "generic path".

 

The "generic path", as you call it, is the "safe" investment of development funds. Game companies that do "non standard" stuff most times will not survive (a few will, mostly independent groups, not the big name developers like BW). When you spend 200 million on building a game, the investors want some reasonable assurance they will have return on their investment.

 

Going "out of the mainstream" is too risky for such a large investment.

[Rakugo]

I think SWTOR, with the ablity to change dark/light affiliation could have been the first 'big' game to remove the idea of factions altogether.

 

You could have had everyone starting in the same area for their class and progress through the game together. It would have doubled the number of people you can group with, would have stopped the number of times people have rolled one side just to be with friends/guilds.

 

You could have then chosen light/dark side (or neutral) which would have opened up more quests/gear/mounts/planets. Everyone can group up and join guilds together but maybe dark/light people have debuffs when healing/guarding each other.

 

What are peoples thought on this, as faction balance is a key issue on either game start or at some point in the game. Do we really need it?

 

Becuz their allready were two factions before in all. Like They said They havE been thinking bout factions change when sith Goes light but That means witling two stories per class and was too much form them so noo not gone happen and i dont see THE problem here.

 

And of u didnt notice in novels and movies à force sensitive starts out either at THE jedi or sith acedemy so what neutral?

 

 

Way did we even need a sith Empire? The Republic became the Empire at the end of the prequels so it's like we're playing a story where Vader and the Emperor said, "eh, we're never gonna stamp out this Rebellion, in fact the only people we can beat are ourselves, let's hop in a time machine and do just that."

 

If there had to be a two faction system (and there always must be because WoW did it) they could have made it two factions within the republic fighting it out that would let players decide which side they were on via lightside/darkside choices.

 

.

 

Wth are u talking about? Bcuz wow did in? Dude star wars had factions in THE moties, before THE moties, before wow existed, and this is 3000 or 300 years before THE star wars ww know. Factions in novel alter movie before movie so dont spil your mouth so easily

 

Read Some novels before you. Say stuff

Edited February 6, 2012 by Rakugo

[gregordunbar]

Nope.

 

Everquest 2 already has that. As does City of Heroes.

 

Everquest 2 does not have factions, it has racial islands and cities, which is not the same since each city has a section for each race so faction has zero bearing at all in the overall story. but you are correct about City of Heroes, I forgot about being able to go villian/hero.

[BlownSi]

SWG really did this aspect right. As it has already been stated here, everyone started out neutral. You were able to sign up with one faction or another, and earn points to rank up within that faction. If you weren't happy with your current faction, you could defect.

 

This worked because their were, at the time the game was released, not jedi/sith player characters, so any profession could go either way. Currently, all classes in the game, besides jedi and sith could technically fall to either faction. Would be an interesting concept to hash out.

[gregordunbar]

SWG really did this aspect right. As it has already been stated here, everyone started out neutral. You were able to sign up with one faction or another, and earn points to rank up within that faction. If you weren't happy with your current faction, you could defect.

 

This worked because their were, at the time the game was released, not jedi/sith player characters, so any profession could go either way. Currently, all classes in the game, besides jedi and sith could technically fall to either faction. Would be an interesting concept to hash out.

 

It worked with SWG because of the stories timeline. In this story there is a clear boundry between the classes with only smuggler being the class that could fall into the grey area, bounty hunters were clearly on the side of the side in the story and all the other classes are faction based. Wouldnt make sense for a level 1 Republic trooper going to the sith.

 

The real option we need is to be able to switch sides down the road, but it would have to be after class quest completion to work and I would be all for it. Its the only way for it to make sense storywise...would really blow to switch sides yet have a class questline as is.

[Meldwyn]

I think factions make sense, but why only two?

 

Trade federation anyone? Could have had a few factions and Light/Dark with options to choose another path as you progress... oh, the possibilities.