Sammojo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They basically have to weigh up differences between... 1. PvP and PvE gear, and 2. Undergeared lvl 50's and PvP geared lvl 50's If they close the gap between freshly levelled, undergeared lvl 50's and the PvP geared lvl 50's (which is only sensibly achieved by nerfing PvP gear), then they will reduce the effectiveness of PvP gear in comparison to PvE gear (which is what most PvPers are complaining about). Conversely, if they close the gap between PvP and PvE gear (by buffing PvP gear), then they increase the gap between freshly levelled, undergeared lvl 50's and the PvP geared lvl 50's. The most complete solution to this would be to nerf high-end PvP gear (to close the gap) AND nerf PvE gear by even more (so that PvP gear is more effective in PvP then PvE gear). This means they would have to change the difficulties of every PvE encounter, which is unreasonable to expect. Tl;dr: You can't have your cake and eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzou Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 then all of sudden u are playing WOW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Solo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) It is sad to listen to all of you. Why does a MMO like SWTOR need to become a Pi**ing Contest about equipment in the end? This is really dissapointing. I had hopes for SWTOR to be different. Why do you have to do the same thing over and over again just to get some self-afirmation from "ruling" others that dont? Why is it that casual gamers are talked down on? Its this some nazi master race ideology? And are PvP ers more Ueber than PvEers or is it the other way round? Are "casual gamers" scum to trod on? (Note, this rant stems fron two years occasionally reading threads here, not all is based on this one.) At the beginning the designers from BW were strictly against any kind of WoW like endgame. I dont know what brought them to implementing this, but its raids, rare drops and Battlemaster Gear all over again. It seems to be the choiciest carrot for keeping people paying a monthly fee and replaying the same game over and over. But when enough people have the carrot it gets stale, and bragging about it is no more fun. Then another carrot is added, for which people would have to repeat some other treadmill a hundred times, and all the work they have done before is for naught. For this to work, the "endgame equip" needs to be so good, that competing against somebody who went through this treadmill with "average gear" is a hopeless endeavor. In the end this ruins the fun for those who simply lack the patience and time for the grind. And still, you are complaining it is not good enough? Wouldnt it be far more satisfying if all PvPers had the same equipment in all WZs? Wouldnt it be more satisfying to win on an even playing field? Edited February 7, 2012 by Cpt_Solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The whole pvp gear race is what has ruined this game. I don't care if the raid master or the battle master has more stats. When a new 50 joins a WZ with an average of 12k HP then sees his mirror class with 18.5k HP who takes 30% less damage and deals 30%(15%from expertise but remember its a multiplyer on defence rating and other base stats) more and is expected to put up a challenge I laugh. The comparisons you are making just prove this is Gear v Gear not P v P. You mean when a new 50 who just got done facerolling low levels hits 50, he might actually have to grind for a week for some gear to make him competitive. That's real hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Solo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You mean when a new 50 who just got done facerolling low levels hits 50, he might actually have to grind for a week for some gear to make him competitive. That's real hard. No, its simply boring. And its a week for somebody lacking a RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If this is true I am very sad, the PVE in this game is a giant CC snoozefest and ill agree with other that once i get pvp gear if im getting facerolled by people in pve gear I am gone. To all the QQ about grinding for pvp gear, you got your way so what are you gonna cry about now? Its all in the sig.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 We have a reality here that TOR is a gear based MMO, that will not change so it does not help talking about what ifs. The question is simple and it revolves around what BW said: BW is talking about gear strength regarding PvP for new 50's. But new 50's will also go up against people in x2 PvE + x2 PvP gear. My question: Will you BW look at PvE gear strength when it is used in PvP? Because I am a million percent sure they will not nurf PvE items! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Welcome to mmo's, please exit the QQ bus. Wrong. Last time I looked it was a game, not a gear grinding job. Please exit yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Bring on Guild wars 2, where the pvp is all about skill and gear doesn't matter at all. Equal playing field, how it should be. The only people crying about gear are the ones who need it because they are that much of a bad player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 IT IS A GAME ITS AN MMO GAME INTENDED TO BE PLAYED FOR MONTHS/YEARS NOT WEEKS! I am sorry but if I pay my sub for a year and you pay it for 2 months there should be a discernable difference in our power in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 IT IS A GAME ITS AN MMO GAME INTENDED TO BE PLAYED FOR MONTHS/YEARS NOT WEEKS! I am sorry but if I pay my sub for a year and you pay it for 2 months there should be a discernable difference in our power in game. No, there shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Bring on Guild wars 2, where the pvp is all about skill and gear doesn't matter at all. Equal playing field, how it should be. The only people crying about gear are the ones who need it because they are that much of a bad player. Actually this point was raised in beta more than once and it is very clear BW intended this game to be gear based. I actually made a charged post in Beta calling for gear strength nurf across the board back when 50's were in the same bracket as lower levels. Thing is I don't think BW should lower the strength 'gap' of just PvP gear but also PvE gear. Edited February 7, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They never stated they will nerf PvP gear, please get your facts right. I feel that, as the whole of this thread seems to keep hinging on PVP gear being nerfed that this needs to be quoted and repeated. Don't let that stop the incessant whining though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yes Yes Yes their should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731 "...specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high." -GZ "We have no intention of forcing PvP players to do Operations and vice versa." -GZ You draw your own conclusions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQmeksP4GtY&feature=related Edited February 7, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731 "...specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high." -GZ "We have no intention of forcing PvP players to do Operations and vice versa." -GZ You draw your own conclusions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQmeksP4GtY&feature=related They have already confirmed that they are talking about the speed at which new 50's gain expertise gear and not the nerfing of current PVP gear when they say they are working on changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 No, there shouldn't. WT..... Are you a commie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 PVE gear is better over pvp gear that has expertise? Granted BH/trooper's 2 piece bonus is an unbalancing factor while the 4 piece bonus on either pve or pvp BH/trooper gear are completely meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ROFL he just wants stuff with out having to work for it, if that makes him a commie, oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They have already confirmed that they are talking about the speed at which new 50's gain expertise gear and not the nerfing of current PVP gear when they say they are working on changes. From what that quote says, they might tone down expertise, ~700 gives 15% bonus to damage/resist/healing, suppose they tone that down to 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 They have already confirmed that they are talking about the speed at which new 50's gain expertise gear and not the nerfing of current PVP gear when they say they are working on changes. Again, expertise works on diminishing returns guys, PvE gear will surpass PvP gear at high end -Nightmare / Rakata. Some set bonuses -PvE- are really powerful. So I ask again, will they reduce the strength of high end PvE gear? Because a fresh 50 going up against a group in top notch PvE gear will get slaughtered HARDER than a group in BM gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_krall Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) What happens when PvE gear gives more theoretical hit points than PvP gear as well as more 'power' either damage and/or healing at the same time? I have read at least one post detailing that Sentinel/Marauder is currently at that point. (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=256372) With the 'nurf' to PvP gear I can't help but wounder with rated PvP is this BW way of forcing PvP players into harder PvE content? As a PvP minded player if my fears materialize in the form of needing to farm Nightmare/Hard-mode PvE content it would be a big enough slap in the face to just leave and wait for another game. What are you're thoughts? ---- http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731 "...specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high." -GZ "We have no intention of forcing PvP players to do Operations and vice versa." -GZ You draw your own conclusions. Its funny there is a stat for PvP gear and yet the same rated PvE gear is better at PvP or as good. Best PvP team in the buisness.....i guess when EA gets involved quality went out the window. Edited February 7, 2012 by da_krall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) ROFL he just wants stuff with out having to work for it, if that makes him a commie, oh wait... :-) Exactly... SHEET!!!! Why not just give everyone BM gear when they hit 50. LOLZ Edited February 7, 2012 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Just need to remove the ability to wear gear without expertise in warzones period, i say again if the case is that pve gear is better than pvp gear in warzones I will quit this game. No one should be able to stand a chance against someone in battlemaster gear in any pve gear, end game or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Just need to remove the ability to wear gear without expertise in warzones period, i say again if the case is that pve gear is better than pvp gear in warzones I will quit this game. No one should be able to stand a chance against someone in battlemaster gear in any pve gear, end game or not. But thats the case today, for example here is one case explained: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=256372 It also applies to just about all classes -it being PvE gear yields higher theoretical health and more power. I hope people will go research further own class and compare BM gear with PvE gear, I think many will realize that if they truly want best optimization TODAY they need PvE gear! BW: Expertise SHOULD NOT BE ON DIMINISHING RETURNS. Edited February 7, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts