Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[PibbyPib]

The fact that the people who cry about "balance" are also the ones scrambling to get stat advantages in PvP says a lot about the cries for balance.

[iceperson]

lol at bads afraid they won't be able to 1 button spam and kill others. "I'm terrible and need the gear advantage" isn't a valid argument for the current disparity...

[jazzllanna]

The difference is huge. I have been 50 for a week and I love PvP and have been doing so since I was level 10. I was pretty confident in my ablities once I hit 50 but as soon as I got into a wz with no PvP gear I am slaughtered in about 3-4 shots.

 

I understand that there has to be a reward for putting time into pvp and I think that gear should bump you up however being a fresh 50 and not being able to do anything but die for a week until you get a bit of gear is frustrating.

 

However, many people are just hitting 50 and I think it will balance out. The gear is fairly easy to get- in 1 week I have 4 pieces- and can stand a bit more damage now but yeah getting to that point is frustrating and brutal.

[Blotter]

All players should have to PvP in a mumu and clown shoes with no added stats. Let's see how the content locust grind-addict people who managed BM gear in like 4 days like that. Player versus player where the ONLY thing that matters is player skill? I CAN'T HAZ I-WIN BUTTON? OH NOEZ!!!!!

 

And no, I'm not whining about getting a butwhoopin either. That's part of the process when you start, but if BW is noticing that there's too much of a gap and it's causing things to be too imba, then good. It SHOULD be more about skill than stats. The BM gear and epics should be a boost that gives you the edge, not turn yuo into a bull in a china shop scattering newbz before you like shattered teacups.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Blotter

[DarthFamine]

Well

 

I haven't pvped much at all, haven't even finished pve yet so perhaps I bring a unique perspective to this lively debate.

 

The gear vs the skill

 

I agree with the sentiment that skill should be the deciding factor.

I also agree with the notion that someone who has been doing it longer should have better gear and be more able to lay out the beatdown.

 

That having been said I do see something of an imbalance here in the good geared players.

can it be fixed without breaking everything? *shrugs* Probably.

 

I like the idea of a vendor that sells the pvp gear directly. perhaps instead of bags, set it so that you must attain a certain valor rank in order to access the vendor(s)

 

this would help eliminate the endless grinding, (we are all tired of huttball even me who pvp's very little) would let the truly skilled players deck themselves out.

 

and make it a little easier to get the stuff which would help the casual players some.

 

the whole open a bag and get nothing thing just annoys the hell outta me. I work 60+ hours a week with an hour commute each way and just don't have alot of time to grind. I would like a way to at least be useful in pvp. Right now I can't grind, so I cant get gear. With the gear disparity this makes me pretty much useless unless the other team feels like farming me (oh what fun!)

 

*shrugs* I'm not asking for a handout but from an objective viewpoint the current system is in fact unbalanced.

 

I hope this helps.

 

I now welcome your quit QQing and L2P comments

 

Edited February 6, 2012 by DarthFamine
typos

[Arathea]

I actually think people sorta overestimate PvP gear a bit. (Yes, I got a lot of Battlemaster gear, so feel free to ignore my input).

 

At full BM gear I think you land on 12.5% (not sure, missing 2 pieces) of extra damage and healing done, and reduced damage taken.

 

This amounts to 25%. This is quite a bit, but it's far from impossible to overcome it.

 

When me and my friends were leveling we played a bit of PvP. Before we hit 50, this was when there were level 50's with PvP gear. We never had any problem (appart from Joatel who ripped us to shreds).

 

Our healer was almost always far above anyone else in healing done, far more than 12.5% or even 25%.

Our DPS were almost always far above or at the top of DPS. And there were always DPS classes that they outdamaged by 12.5% or even 25%.

I was a tank and can't really say anything from stats. But I sure as hell never felt gimped.

 

If I play a healer-alt today around lvl 20 I can, with my 2 heals and 2 handfulls of talentpoints still outheal most other healers. How is that possible, when I don't have PvP gear?!?!

 

Yes, PvP gear gives you an advantage. But it doesn't make you god compared to non-geared players. Especially if those players have Columni or Rakata PvE gear.

[Mephismo]

IMHO PvP should never be based around Gear. It should be Skill based. Noobstomping is the dumbest thing in any game.

 

Sad to say it’s the only fun some get in these type of games.

[brownsco]

I didn't bother trying pvp at all while leveling so when I hit 50 I decided to finally try it out. Well after being put in match after match against people decked out in full pvp gear and spending the whole time dying very quickly I finally said **** it and stopped trying pvp for good. There shouldn't be such a massive imbalance like there is right now.

 

Gear is not the issue. It is that people like this that have 0 experience go in to a WZ, get their *** handed to them, and then blame it on the gear. Players in BM gear are not good because they have gear it is because they have many many hours of experience.

 

I am not saying BM makes you good but putting that much time in WZ learning the strats, knowing how to counter other classes, knowing how to get away, and all the little tricks you learn are far more important than the gear.

 

I am on the Republic side of my server and there are very few BMs but a very large number of BMs on the Imp side. We still manage to beat them the majority of the time in WZs.

[xerolegacy]

Warzones should be balanced like this:

 

Add up the total valor of all 8 players, each side should equal (or within a few levels).

 

They wouldn't need to add more brackets, just balance the valor. So if one side has all level 60 valor, they would have to go against all 60 valor.

 

EZPZ

[PibbyPib]

Gear is not the issue. It is that people like this that have 0 experience go in to a WZ, get their *** handed to them, and then blame it on the gear. Players in BM gear are not good because they have gear it is because they have many many hours of experience.

 

Then you don't care about stats on PvP gear, right?

 

I mean, if the experience of playing gives you a big edge, why should a dedicated PvPer get a statistical advantage on top of that? You're already a shark in a goldfish tank. You don't need a laser strapped to your head as well.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PibbyPib

[Jederix]

So you want a more uneven playing field in which skill is less relevant?

 

Sounds like a PvP request if I ever heard one. I am being facetious, I know, but still, isn't that what most PvPers are after, an advantage over their peers?

[brownsco]

Then you don't care about stats on PvP gear, right?

 

I mean, if the experience of playing gives you a big edge, why should ever get a statistical advantage on top of that? You're already a shark in a goldfish tank. You don't needs a laser strapped to your head.

 

I would be fine with them taking away the stats as long as we are compensated for our time with something else. Without giving rewards there would be no one joining queues.

[brownsco]

Warzones should be balanced like this:

 

Add up the total valor of all 8 players, each side should equal (or within a few levels).

 

They wouldn't need to add more brackets, just balance the valor. So if one side has all level 60 valor, they would have to go against all 60 valor.

 

EZPZ

 

Would be great if this worked but queues are not drawing from millions of players like in BF or CoD. Your queue times would be very long.

[Supercracker]

Its MMO....ITS ABOUT GETTING THE GREAT GEAR.....iF YOU WANTED TO PLAY MORTAL COMBAT THEN GO PLAY IT.

 

I like reading how guys didn't pvp until they got to 50 and the gear was the reason they got slaughtered. Whatever...you suck.

 

Doesn't take any real effert to get decent pvp gear in this game. If you dont want to take the week or two to get it then you deserve to get killed.

[brownsco]

Let's make TOR PvP Ultima Online's style, where ALL gear may be looted from the dead player's body. Wondering how many gear-based PvPers would agree with such solution. Btw we may check how viable are their arguments that "gear must be the reward"

 

UO had amazing pvp and everyone was basically on a level playing field b/c everyone used the same crafted gear but to be good you still needed to come prepared. Good players always had trapped pouches, bandages, pots, etc. UO was also very dependant on a good connection in a time when many people were still using dialup.

 

I would give my full support to a game like UO which imo was the wild west of mmos. However this generation of MMOers could never handle it. People cry about EVERYTHING these days.

[Arutassin]

Sounds like a PvP request if I ever heard one. I am being facetious, I know, but still, isn't that what most PvPers are after, an advantage over their peers?

 

NO!

 

What most people want is a fair balanced fight where the most skilled combatant comes out on top.

[Arutassin]

Its MMO....ITS ABOUT GETTING THE GREAT GEAR.....iF YOU WANTED TO PLAY MORTAL COMBAT THEN GO PLAY IT.

 

I like reading how guys didn't pvp until they got to 50 and the gear was the reason they got slaughtered. Whatever...you suck.

 

Doesn't take any real effort to get decent pvp gear in this game. If you don't want to take the week or two to get it then you deserve to get killed.

 

Yo are so wrong it hurts.

 

PvE is about gear and progression. I made an extensive post further back in this thread but I guess you didn't read past page 1 and just posted a reply?

 

It does take insane time and effort in this game to get to a point where your stats are balanced when your playing against players who know the BG better than you do and have better gear.

 

There is nothing wrong with knowing the game more (being more experienced) as this is something players can learn. Combining it with gear (players who have played longer already have experience and gear) however makes the game inaccessible to new players. Even if they do learn the game and get to a place where their skill could shine through, it doesn't get a chance to as too many players with no skill but lots of free time already have gear. It is only when the new player eventually gets to the same gear level that the two players are in a balanced environment. This however takes the new player about 3-4 times longer than the player who has been playing for some time however, as this player is playing against geared experienced players.

 

I seriously do not understand the mindset of PvPers who want PvP gear rewards. You know it stops skill showing through, destroys a games balancing, and chokes a game due to no new players joining against those who have played a long time. It makes you get cheap kills and causes entire games to fail when the imbalanc! it causes effects PvE. Yet you still want it?

 

Eventually an expansion will make your gear worthless anyway. Then what? Complain? You were here since the start and played xxx amount of PvP hours.. You DESERVE some better gear to show how long you have been here.

 

At a new expansion the rest of us don't worry about our gear becoming obsolete. We get excited about more content to play doing new stuff. Fighting new battles etc. Gear is a means to an end. The real reason to play is to enjoy playing. Not to show off your gear that MEANS NOTHING OUTSIDE THE GAME!

 

A PvP system with no PvP gear or even better yet, a balanced set of PvP gear all characters get, would benefit all. Players would have skill rewarded not gear. New players would not feel intimidated by unbeatable players who know tacs and have insane gear.

 

If you want PvP rewards make it skins for gear or titles. Vanity items to show off your success but NOT impact the gameplay mechanics.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Arutassin

[Palazious]

If there are no pvp gear set then the advantage would go to the PvE'rs in the guilds that farm the highest tier PvE armor sets.

 

I think those who are whining about the PvP gear are PvE'rs who want raid gear advantage in PvP.

 

"If" it should be based on skill and not gear and PvP gear goes away, then PvE gear shouldn't be able to be used in PvP as well.

 

Naked fighting FTW!

 

But... battlemaster geared players die too! it's not that big of a problem.

[Terrorshard]

Yo are so wrong it hurts.

 

PvE is about gear and progression. I made an extensive post further back in this thread but I guess you didn't read past page 1 and just posted a reply?

 

It does take insane time and effort in this game to get to a point where your stats are balanced when your playing against players who know the BG better than you do and have better gear.

 

There is nothing wrong with knowing the game more (being more experienced) as this is something players can learn. Combining it with gear (players who have played longer already have experience and gear) however makes the game inaccessible to new players. Even if they do learn the game and get to a place where their skill could shine through, it doesn't get a chance to as too many players with no skill but lots of free time already have gear. It is only when the new player eventually gets to the same gear level that the two players are in a balanced environment. This however takes the new player about 3-4 times longer than the player who has been playing for some time however, as this player is playing against geared experienced players.

 

I seriously do not understand the mindset of PvPers who want PvP gear rewards. You know it stops skill showing through, destroys a games balancing, and chokes a game due to no new players joining against those who have played a long time. It makes you get cheap kills and causes entire games to fail when the imbalanc! it causes effects PvE. Yet you still want it?

 

Eventually an expansion will make your gear worthless anyway. Then what? Complain? You were here since the start and played xxx amount of PvP hours.. You DESERVE some better gear to show how long you have been here.

 

At a new expansion the rest of us don't worry about our gear becoming obsolete. We get excited about more content to play doing new stuff. Fighting new battles etc. Gear is a means to an end. The real reason to play is to enjoy playing. Not to show off your gear that MEANS NOTHING OUTSIDE THE GAME!

 

A PvP system with no PvP gear or even better yet, a balanced set of PvP gear all characters get, would benefit all. Players would have skill rewarded not gear. New players would not feel intimidated by unbeatable players who know tacs and have insane gear.

 

If you want PvP rewards make it skins for gear or titles. Vanity items to show off your success but impact the gameplay mechanics.

 

The most ironic thing about it is they complain about queue times while they shy away the player base from pvp.

[ivanhedgehog]

Also, I noticed that myself and my room mate were perfectly able to hold our own in PvP as lvl 10 or 11 without a problem. Yea the higher level players with the better gear have an advantage, which they rightly deserve for putting more time, but it can be overcome.

 

But did they gain that gear by pvping against guys with top level gear like they want new 50's to? Probably not.

[Skitlz]

NO!

 

What most people want is a fair balanced fight where the most skilled combatant comes out on top.

 

Lets all battle with no gear on then? Is that fair enough for you? I dont understand what you want them to do? only way to take gear out of the mix is to take gear out of the game completely.

[Stupiddrummer]

Gear disparity in PvP was at one point the reward for being successful in PvE.

 

I mean why else do end game PvE? To get gear, to do more PvE? Well...yeah, but what then, after you've beaten all the content? You use the gear to defeat the other faction!

 

Now, albeit, you run into the same problem with this system, where all the end game players and high end raiders have all the best gear (which is fair, being that completing end game content is more so related to skill/coordination rather than time spent in game). So, to combat this, you add in PvP rewards, that may not be the best gear, but allows you to compete with what end game players are using.

 

This is how it worked in WoW - Before Arena, before resilience and before endless accumulation of honor points.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

gear disparity is a give and take. sometimes you are getting stomped by a battlemaster, and sometimes you are stomping a fresh 50 or a bad 50. other times it's a chaotic cluster and you get a good fight in. then sometimes, though it is very rare, one can use his skill around static game mechanics. line of sight, positioning, how do they work?

 

keep battlemasters something to be reckoned with. i say this as someone who got to 50 about 4 days ago.

[Silcan]

You all talk about PVP gear, why not talk some PVE gear. It should not be any gear advances in the PVE gear, only titles etc etc.

 

A fresh 50 should go raid nightmare and do hardmodes. The gear should not make u any stronger or better in PVE. It shold all be about skill and teamwork.

[Denadanier]

Imo if they were to nerf PVP equipment by lowering the effectiveness/amount of expertise gained then they would need to boost all of the other stats so that battlemaster gear is equal to the top tier raid gear. I, like many, am not interested in raiding; I play to PVP and if you want to give people who PVE an advantage in PVP that is more unfair than the situation currently. Atm if you want good PVP equipment you...PVP, if you want good PVE equip you raid, lets not mix things up...there is a grind on both sides of the game, or should because I can't be bothered gearing up in PVE be complaining because I would be a liability in nightmare raids?

 

Also to the people saying there is a 25% advantage due to 12.5% extra dmg & 12.5% less damage taken; its not even that big an advantage as its not as linear, a stunned player puts out no damage whether battlemaster or not; situation by situation you will not be to that extent worse off.

 

Not taking the above into account; to look at a simple breakdown, them taking 12.5% less damage, in effect your damage is lowered 12.5% to them and you will need to compensate; for an average of 17-18k hit points that's around an extra 2k damage in one life (healing aside) which is one extra hit for most dps classes! Now healing does introduce further disadvantages but still nothing that can't be overcome. At the same time they are doing 12.5% more damage to you so they have to hit one less hit (averaging out "hits"); not a great deal of difference now is there?

 

Higher hit points, and the other contributing factors to their damage and mitigation come from stats which you can achieve through equipment from dailies/GTN. Most of the people i see complaining on my server are still running around in greens from their 40s! The PVP stats themselves are not the major factor, they are simply there to keep a differentiation between PVE and PVP gear so that top tiers of equipment have advantages in their area, as it should be!