Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[Lrdprimus]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

[nightchrome]

So you want a more uneven playing field in which skill is less relevant?

[CaptainInsano]

If there's an actual gear nerf top PvPers will leave the game in droves. Nobody likes having their time rendered meaningless. I'm pretty sure BW means to introduce entry level PvP gear for new 50s, they can't be that stupid.

[Dire-Wolf]

Disparity in gear is the reason pvp in mmo's is so terrible.

 

You play an RTS, racing game, fighting game, FPS etc and a persons skill actually matters.

 

In mmo's it's all about who ever has the most epics. If BioWare intends to try and change that then I say good on them and it can't come sooner.

[HeavensDemise]

I didn't bother trying pvp at all while leveling so when I hit 50 I decided to finally try it out. Well after being put in match after match against people decked out in full pvp gear and spending the whole time dying very quickly I finally said **** it and stopped trying pvp for good. There shouldn't be such a massive imbalance like there is right now.

[Tintagel]

On the one hand ppl want balanced PvP then say that if they play more then any1 else they want an advantage. Personally I would rather it was made skill based instead of simply the amount of time you have to play and therfore gear up.

[VenthiosLestaran]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

Imo when PVP started being about who has the better gear, is when it started going downhill. PVP should be about player skill, and their ability to use their classes powers at the right time. Not who has the bigger stick. Until that's corrected - pvp will be a joke. It doesn't matter if BM's have an advantage or not, because the only reason to PVP in games like this - is the gear. Anyone who worries about the gear being the reason they pvp? Or how much of a gap it gives them? Is pvping for the wrong reason.

 

There's a game out there that's coming out soon that's trying to erase this whole PvP for gear to get gear to pvp nonsense. Check it out, it's called GW2.

Edited February 6, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran

[Suzina]

No! No separate queue for battle masters please!

 

 

I used to warzone at level 1 and was delighted at it. Then they said my level was too weak and made it level 10.

 

Launch came and I could warzone with all my guild-mates of any level (above 10) and all was good. The warzone queues were quite short. Then they said anyone below level 49 was too weak and they cut them off, resulting in long ques on my 50.

 

So I'm in a warzone que right now, it's been 10, 20 minutes. This is how it is at 50 now, you know. It's not like the 1 to 49 queue which still has people at this time. Gives me time to check out the forums while I sit here, I guess. But you want to cut the battlemasters, the hardest-core PVPers, the only pvpers I see into their own braket and make the pool of people to play with even smaller?

 

 

The more brackets we have, the lower our coms per hour. Wouldn't you rather lose three matches and win one match in an hour rather than have zero matches in an hour?

[Suzina]

Disparity in gear is the reason pvp in mmo's is so terrible.

.

 

Disparity in gear is the reason why it's an MMO. Take away the rewards from things and this post would be renamed "No reason to warzone, it doesn't advance my character at all".

[VenthiosLestaran]

Disparity in gear is the reason why it's an MMO. Take away the rewards from things and this post would be renamed "No reason to warzone, it doesn't advance my character at all".

 

What about titles, recognition? The joy of beating your opponents? Why is gear the reason people fight players, and not monsters?

[iheartnyc]

If there's an actual gear nerf top PvPers will leave the game in droves.

 

No they won't. Truly skilled PvPers (the ones who can win with inferior gear) shouldn't care about their gear being nerfed. I suspect it will be like MW3 (gear gives you marginal advantage) but nothing that can't be overcome with skill.

[iheartnyc]

Disparity in gear is the reason why it's an MMO. Take away the rewards from things and this post would be renamed "No reason to warzone, it doesn't advance my character at all".

 

Really? What about player rankings (which they will implement)? People in other games (FPS/RTS) really care about K/D ratio, W/L ratio, and performance stats and achievements. In Starcraft they even care about clicks per second. What makes you think MMO players are different? Maybe it's the ones who can't win without have overpowered gear?

Edited February 6, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Saetet]

omg really? I am not in full champ gear as yet, I started PvPing at 50. I absolutely love the challenge of seeking out those battlemasters and running circles around them as they die. It really is down to skill and patience. Sure there are days when I get totally annhilated, but more often then not I kick royal arsenal in PvP. I am happy with my gear progression * says between gritted teeth* endless tokens and the chance for a gear piece. Yes I do get frustrated opening 30 bags and nothing, then my day gets made when I get a shiny new piece of gear. I bounce all over the station, then I go a killing.

 

People who cannot take joy in the art of finding a way to down a stronger opponent and those who do not want to work for their gear shouldn't be pvping in the first place Imho.

 

This is just my opinion though take it as such, I am also one of those people who comments congratulating those in general when someone really kicks my arse. I just giggle and move on.

 

~Have fun.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Saetet

[Fedarsond]

They need to just add a vendor for 50's for pvp and pve that sells every peice of gear in the game for like 1 credit each so everyone stops qqing and only have to play a few mins a week to get the best gear in the game since people love having free things handed to them now and don't wanna work for anything.

[iheartnyc]

They need to just add a vendor for 50's for pvp and pve that sells every peice of gear in the game for like 1 credit each so everyone stops qqing and only have to play a few mins a week to get the best gear in the game since people love having free things handed to them now and don't wanna work for anything.

 

How is having skill "not working for anything?" In fact, gear that outweighs talent is welfare. It's like letting us run in the Olympic 100m against Usain Bolt with a 50m advantage. I'd rather see talent win the day, not gear.

 

In that respect, I'd love to see "ranked PvP" where you have to choose from a set of pre-made characters, or all gear is the same. And all the gearheads can rage with their regular gear in normal PvP or raids. Come on battlemasters, what are you afraid of?

Edited February 6, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Gradivus]

As Should I just go to PVE full time?

 

If you are this afraid of loosing your gear advantage, then yes - you should got to PvE full time. You are obviously not a PvPer. PvP players enjoy challange and competition.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Gradivus

[dadamowsky]

Disparity in gear is the reason why it's an MMO. Take away the rewards from things and this post would be renamed "No reason to warzone, it doesn't advance my character at all".

 

Everytime I see PvP gear defenders I can't shake the feeling, that they are perfectly aware of the sad fact: they can't win a fight unless given huge advantage

 

The history of online gaming shows, that any kind of PvP game is succesful only when both opposing players/groups are given similar chances. The more closed for newcomers system is, the more unfair for factions or classes, the less gamers are bothering with the title - eventually causing its death. This fact is relevant no matter if we're talking about FPS, RTS, or MMO. Don't believe me? See the most succesful e-sport games, see what actually can be e-sport (currently the highest form of recognition for any PvP game) and think for a second "why this title has made so much fame, that it was given its place in (ex.) WCG".

 

However, unlike any other type of online gaming, among MMOs players there are this huge myth alive about progression linked strictly with stat-gear, and its must for a MMO genre. No, it's not a must. Gear progresion is natural MMOs feature, yes, but for PvE. And only for PvE. Every single title, that copies PvE progression into PvP game... do I really have to finish that sentence? Do you people really need more proofs of "it's not working" statement?

 

Do you want to know the secret? It's hidden in abbreviations we are using. PvP means Player versus Player. Not Gear versus Gear, nor Character versus Character. PvP means that The Player is the one, who must be better than his opponent, not his toon, not toon's abilities, not the toon's equipment. The Player's skill counts, not the toon's. It is as simple as that.

 

So to sum it up: every BW's decission to decrease the gear gap between competitors in PvP is good.

[Fedarsond]

How is having skill "not working for anything?" In fact, gear that outweighs talent is welfare. It's like letting us run in the Olympic 100m against Usain Bolt with a 50m advantage. I'd rather see talent win the day, not gear.

 

In that respect, I'd love to see "ranked PvP" where you have to choose from a set of pre-made characters, or all gear is the same. And all the gearheads can rage with their regular gear in normal PvP or raids. Come on battlemasters, what are you afraid of?

 

 

So what your saying is you want everything handed to you and you don't wanna put in the work others before you had to do to get the gear they have? You act like people with bm gear didn't pvp at all to get to where they are.

[iheartnyc]

So what your saying is you want everything handed to you and you don't wanna put in the work others before you had to do to get the gear they have? You act like people with bm gear didn't pvp at all to get to where they are.

 

Buddy, I work long hours each day to earn a living and sacrifice time with friends and family and my health (more time spent in front of computer = less time at the gym) to squeeze in maybe ~2-4 hours a day playing SWTOR. I'm jealous that some players have the luxury to play more than me consistently. But don't sit there and expect us to believe that just b/c you have more free time on your hands, you worked "harder" than me to get the gear and therefore deserve to win. All it means is that you got to spend more time (your free choice) to play a game that is supposedly fun.

 

I don't care about gear (other than it keeps me competitive and that it looks cool). I think it should give a boost to PVE. You earned that much. But in PvP? Heck no. I think once we get ranked PvP, it should be same gear stats per class for everyone and let skill be the decider. If you "worked so hard" as you claim, then clearly, you will have superior PvP skills and have nothing to worry about anyway, that is, assuming that gear is an accurate proxy for skill.

Edited February 6, 2012 by iheartnyc

[Merex]

PVP balance means there should be a good chance you can lose, always. Especially if the lesser geared player is better than you. Just because you're Battlemaster and stood in Ilum longer than he/she did doesn't mean you get to faceroll them like they're level 10.

[OddballEasyEight]

PvP is imbalanced - waaaaaaaaah!

 

 

oh wait... youre not complaining about PvP being unbalanced, youre actually applauding it and want it to stay that way...

 

 

sorry then, i mistook you for a completely different sort of whiner...

[Kalantris]

Buddy, I work long hours each day to earn a living and sacrifice time with friends and family and my health (more time spent in front of computer = less time at the gym) to squeeze in maybe ~2-4 hours a day playing SWTOR. I'm jealous that some players have the luxury to play more than me consistently. But don't sit there and expect us to believe that just b/c you have more free time on your hands, you worked "harder" than me to get the gear and therefore deserve to win.

 

I don't care about gear (other than it keeps me competitive and that it looks cool). I think it should give a boost to PVE. You earned that much. But in PvP? Heck no. I think once we get ranked PvP, it should be same gear stats per class for everyone and let skill be the decider. If you "worked so hard" as you claim, then clearly, you will have superior PvP skills and have nothing to worry about anyway, that is, assuming that gear is an accurate proxy for skill.

 

1. It's all about choices. You chose the gym, I chose my work, someone chose to be jobless and will pwn the both of us solo. "In every MMO a jobless man is king".

2. MMOs are about progression. The player needs to see his character looking better with every tier of gear he gets, he needs to see the damage numbers going up (regardless of the fact, that mobs have just more and more HPs, so it's not that much of a difference, now isn't it?).

3. Progression means gear changing. In order to make people want the new gear it has to be better than the old one.

4. This leads to a gear based PvP system, which we see now in ToR. I'm pretty much geared myself, although I'm not a battlemaster yet. I'm around 500 expertise, which is enough. I was close to 600, but started switching some gear to PvE, because it's simply better, than 0,05% dmg/reduction in PvP lost.

5. Skill based systems need to be actually fun.

6. PvP in the old republic is not fun. Therefore it requires the grind and the progression to keep people playing.

7. One final note: The difference between a MMO and a shooter is that every duel is a 2v2 fight. Not only do players fight each others, characters do the same. They have different skills, builds and, yes, gear.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Cempa]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

What people are forgetting is the game also has PvE gear which is for some classes better than best PvP gear for PvP.

 

Some classes get more theoretical ht points as well as more power from PvE gear. Will they reduce the power of Nightmare gear? Of course not , but they have no issue reducing the power of best PvP gear................... ASK WHY?

[sithlordcip]

No because for the new 50 it will be hard to pvp with the ultra geared ones

[Fedarsond]

Buddy, I work long hours each day to earn a living and sacrifice time with friends and family and my health (more time spent in front of computer = less time at the gym) to squeeze in maybe ~2-4 hours a day playing SWTOR. I'm jealous that some players have the luxury to play more than me consistently. But don't sit there and expect us to believe that just b/c you have more free time on your hands, you worked "harder" than me to get the gear and therefore deserve to win.

 

I don't care about gear (other than it keeps me competitive and that it looks cool). I think it should give a boost to PVE. You earned that much. But in PvP? Heck no. I think once we get ranked PvP, it should be same gear stats per class for everyone and let skill be the decider.

 

Sounds good to me goes back to my first post where they should just give stuff out for free so people who don't wanna work for anything get what they want and the qqing stops. Maybe go back to wow where you only have to play a few hours a week to get the gear and even playing field you so desire. At the rate they fix things or say they do but don't let alone balance the game its going to be awhile before any sort of competitive pvp is here.