The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

[biowareftw]

No your asking for the nerf of a spec that works. Why does a pure build have to be more than a hybrid? Just because someone spreads their points out and gets a collection of abilites that senergize well you want to nerf it. Hybrid is not the only spec for Sorcs/Sages. You have healing builds, you have your "pure" lightining build, you have about 3 or 4 different hybrid builds viable in a number of situations. There really isn't a "you must build this way or you're doing it wrong" build. Just about any build can be viable when well executed and practiced. Or are you the only one that is gifted enough to actually call what you do "skill"? Are you a pure build...every single point in one tree? Or are you a hybrid even if you have 31 points in one tree and the remainder in one or both other trees?

 

No you are asking for a nerf to several (I know of at least 4 different "hybrid" builds that can work decently) options for one class probably because they touched you in your no no spot at some point. What is the problem with hybrid builds? Why must you use "pure" builds when you can spread points over 2 or 3 skill trees to mix and match abilites. You go to the 31 point skill if its any good (and many are not worth 31 points). What makes your spec legitimate any more than my spec?

 

All other classes are balanced around going deep in a tree, which leads to the conclusion that ALL specs were balanced the same way. The one class that had a spec that was also a hybrid spec (assassin/shadow) was nerfed.

 

If you think sorc/sages were balanced around hybrid specs you are delusional. Then again you think the hybrid spec is balanced so you are delusional to begin with.

[Smashbrother]

I know healing points can be gained by non healers through items and the recharge move (doubt it's 300k though), but I have no idea how a sorc could get protection points. Anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

How about Force Push then? It's getting pretty ridiculous to have to keep looking up other peoples skills.

 

LOL, force push is only 10 meter range too.

[Kelticfury]

Bottom line is sorcs die easy. If you can't kill one, you need to rethink your tactics, not whine like a little girl on the forums.

[matekwong]

Bottom line is sorcs die easy. If you can't kill one, you need to rethink your tactics, not whine like a little girl on the forums.

 

If a sorc dies easily in an 1:1 situation that sorc must be a bad player. My son can player better.

[Varicite]

Yup when I fight against a team stacked with 4-5 hybrid sorcs as melee, I bust out my shockfrozen pvp trinket that allows me to not me aoe mezzed when I break their shield, knocked back and forth like a ping pong ball and then stunned at the end for a full duration because resolve in this game is a joke.

 

Many Bothans died to procure the shockfrozen pvp trinket for me all so I could stay on a target for more then 1-2 out of every 10 seconds, due to one stupid hybrid spec in the game.

 

Thank goodness most sorcs are so bad they never even hit me with their ranged instant cast slow.

 

Then again their main nuke auto kites for them. Go to love automatic crap in a game. Shield breaks? Automatic cc. Press one button 80 percent of the time? Automatic kite.

 

Freakin intense gameplay brah.

 

This marauder didn't fair very well. He got stun locked from range and "skill" won.

 

 

lol, well, if you're complaining about the extreme class population imbalance and having to fight stacked Sorcs/sages, then... no argument here.

 

4-5 of any ranged class + heals is going to hurt a lot, whether or not they have the CC capability of Sorcs. It's just more annoying to be alive and unable to control your character than to get blown up in 3 seconds by 4-5 Mercenaries targetting you.

[biowareftw]

Bottom line is sorcs die easy. If you can't kill one, you need to rethink your tactics, not whine like a little girl on the forums.

 

False. They are the hardest class to focus in the game. It takes longer to bring down a tank then a hybrid spec sorc and the cooldowns on a tank are HUGE.

 

Stop getting your ideas of class balance from crappy epic fantasy.

 

Armor means jack in this game for the most part.

[Kelticfury]

If a sorc dies easily in an 1:1 situation that sorc must be a bad player. My son can player better.

 

Then have your son teach you how to play.

[Kelticfury]

False. They are the hardest class to focus in the game. It takes longer to bring down a tank then a hybrid spec sorc and the cooldowns on a tank are HUGE.

 

Stop getting your ideas of class balance from crappy epic fantasy.

 

Armor means jack in this game for the most part.

 

Roll a sentinel or a marauder and learn to play. Sorcs drop fast.

[YMIHere]

Juggernaut ability. If you don't know the abilities another class has how can you possibly argue anything about them? In addition to this PvP is all about knowing what your opponent can do to you. If you don't know what other classes can do then you just cannot be a great PvPer.

 

Yeah, the guy said Gaurdian, did he not? I agree, and I've said I'm not a great player. The differences are I don't pretend to know everything about every class and spec, and I'm trying to defend my class from these all knowing people who won't bother to list ways that they actually deal with situations. I offer up things I think are bugged or overpowered or correct you on where your problems lie with understanding my class, you on the other hand spout ridiculous claims about spammable instant Chain Lightnings while on the run before bothering to read up and realize that it's just not happening. Several people had to tell you Lightning Storm is not a good point for hybrids, and I even told you the only situation in which it is good.

[biowareftw]

lol, well, if you're complaining about the extreme class population imbalance and having to fight stacked Sorcs/sages, then... no argument here.

 

4-5 of any ranged class + heals is going to hurt a lot, whether or not they have the CC capability of Sorcs. It's just more annoying to be alive and unable to control your character than to get blown up in 3 seconds by 4-5 Mercenaries targetting you.

 

Yeah if only there were a hard counter "rogue class" that could pick them off as easily as they can faceroll ranged people...

 

Wait nevermind. That class got nerfed and will hit like a wet noodle next patch.

 

You don't even get it do you?

 

You know the truth, yet it escapes you. Stack any class in the game besides sorc/sage hybrid. They are cakewalk to beat. Stack sorc/sage? Win.

 

The fact they are so easy to play? Well that is just the icing on the cake. What happens when you see SiN's/op's slingers/marauders on your team? You say to yourself I really hope they are good...

 

How about when you see all sorcerers? It isn't like you can screw up playing the class lol. Add to that they are also the best healer in the game. When you see mostly sorcs on your team you know it is an easy win.

 

That is the problem my friend. If you stacked frost mages in WoW? Diminishing returns, and giving up tons of dmg for control made them pointless to stack.

 

The hybrid spec gets it all. Best offhealing, overall dmg, bursty as hybrid, best CC. Hell you might as well give them stealth at this point.

[YMIHere]

LOL, force push is only 10 meter range too.

 

Why wait for him to sprint away? My AE knockback isn't far.

[matekwong]

The only thing I really hope they nerf is the snare done by lighting. Its just insane.

[TetraCleric]

TIL standing still and casting FL = kiting.

[biowareftw]

Roll a sentinel or a marauder and learn to play. Sorcs drop fast.

 

If 25-30 seconds = fast? Then yes.

 

More if there is LOS...

 

Aoe mez, when shield breaks, knockback, stun, force sprint and at least two shields and a soft CC? Sorry buddy you aren't killing hybrid spec fast as a marauder/sent unless they are downright horrible.

 

I kill tanks faster then I kill hybrids sorcs that are geared with a clue. Just because you don't realize you can heal/dispel on any of your CC's, or know how to use LOS? Doesn't mean other sorcs/sages don't. It just means you are horrible and telling people to learn to play, when they are better then you and did much better then you on a sorc/sage and said again and again how stupidly OP the hybrid spec is.

 

Now go back to "don't nerf me brah" land with all the other people who can't even play a faceroll spec right.

Edited February 13, 2012 by biowareftw

[TetraCleric]

False. They are the hardest class to focus in the game. It takes longer to bring down a tank then a hybrid spec sorc and the cooldowns on a tank are HUGE.

 

Stop getting your ideas of class balance from crappy epic fantasy.

 

Armor means jack in this game for the most part.

 

Wait, so Juggs taking longer to bring down than a hybrid sorc is a balance issue? Did you not word that correctly? Did you mean to say that hybrid sorcs take longer to kill than a tank Jugg?

[Datku]

^ You clearly did not see the bright red text requesting that people read the ENTIRE ORIGINAL POST. Please do so and post again.

 

No I did read your novel and same quest stands. What makes your build more legitimate than mine? You clearly want changes made to the two dps trees so that some abilites can not be obtained with a balanced viable build, or completely gut a MAJOR ability to compensate for so many "toys". You percive the hybrid build....which one by the way there are several...as being disguestingly over powered. For every screen shot you can post of a sorc "dominating" a WZ I can post one of an Agent or Merc, even maruders dominating kills and dmg. Gear makes a big differance. I wear my "PvE" gear and I can rock 300k + dmg but also have double digets in deaths. I wear my "PvP" gear and I can still rock 200k in dmg but reduce my deaths dramatically. Same story different game...gear changes things. In PvE gear all that hybrid surviveablity I have means jack when I am chain CC'd to a full resolve bar and dead before I can break out or release from any number of other peoples CC effects on me. In PvP gear its still the same story only SOMETIMES I surive long enough to do a knock back and sprint my weak less than 300 health left avatar in a last ditch effort to get away and still be gunned down.

 

Here's some insight for you. Those matches where I deal a ton of dmg and awarded medals are matches where people don't engage me or try to run from me. I mean gee I am standing here in a dangerous place (next to acid or fire) spamming force lighting that you can trace right back to me and yet you will chase after that other player low in health being spammed healed from someone else then cry when a sorc kills you. Happens all the time. Someone with bloodlust chasing a near death enemy determined to kill them while 2-5 others dmg them un-contested. Want to shut a mean nasty sorc down? Mark them in a match and tell people to focus target them. I have had that happened to me many times and no matter where I am as soon as I attack someone 3 or 4 enemies jump on top of me and kill me faster than I can hit an instant ability. Really shuts me down and I end up with less than 100k dmg and close to 20+ deaths and maybe 3 medals. Left unmolested most of the time...yea 300k+ dmg, less than 10 deaths, 8 to 10 medals, 100+ commendations, couple thousand valor. My same disguestingly OP hybrid build can be shut down or left alone to wreck havoc. All depends how other people choose to enable or deny me during a battle.

[TetraCleric]

If 25-30 seconds = fast? Then yes.

 

More if there is LOS...

 

Aoe mez, when shield breaks, knockback, stun, force sprint and at least two shields and a soft CC? Sorry buddy you aren't killing hybrid spec fast as a marauder/sent unless they are downright horrible.

 

I kill tanks faster then I kill hybrids sorcs that are geared with a clue. Just because you don't realize you can heal/dispel on any of your CC's, or know how to use LOS? Doesn't mean other sorcs/sages don't. It just means you are horrible and telling people to learn to play, when they are better then you and did much better then you on a sorc/sage and said again and again how stupidly OP the hybrid spec is.

 

Now go back to "don't nerf me brah" land with all the other people who can't even play a faceroll spec right.

 

 

You can't even dispel most non sorc dots lol. Anything physical, tech, or something that isn't Force cannot be dispelled by the basic Purge (you have to talent it in Corruption to get the Physical Purge).

[Datku]

All other classes are balanced around going deep in a tree, which leads to the conclusion that ALL specs were balanced the same way. The one class that had a spec that was also a hybrid spec (assassin/shadow) was nerfed.

 

If you think sorc/sages were balanced around hybrid specs you are delusional. Then again you think the hybrid spec is balanced so you are delusional to begin with.

 

Intresting...my BH is a split spec and does very well. My Sniper has points in all 3 trees and does very well. But that is just the way I play. I HATE HATE HATE pure specs. Takes all the skill out of the class when everyone has the same abilies because you have to go pure. A lot of people that I know and see in PvP of EVERY CLASS use a split spec of some type. In fact true pure builds are rare and generally PvE played only. You never see a pure spec in PvP...limits you way too much.

[Kelticfury]

If 25-30 seconds = fast? Then yes.

 

More if there is LOS...

 

Aoe mez, when shield breaks, knockback, stun, force sprint and at least two shields and a soft CC? Sorry buddy you aren't killing hybrid spec fast as a marauder/sent unless they are downright horrible.

 

I kill tanks faster then I kill hybrids sorcs that are geared with a clue. Just because you don't realize you can heal/dispel on any of your CC's, or know how to use LOS? Doesn't mean other sorcs/sages don't. It just means you are horrible and telling people to learn to play, when they are better then you and did much better then you on a sorc/sage and said again and again how stupidly OP the hybrid spec is.

 

Now go back to "don't nerf me brah" land with all the other people who can't even play a faceroll spec right.

 

you are making the completely wrong assumptions duder. I quit playing sorc a long time ago. I play a sentinel now and I eat them for breakfast. Any more assumptions you'd like to throw my way?

 

Til then, get over yourself dude. You don't know half as much as you'd like to think you do.

[matekwong]

Intresting...my BH is a split spec and does very well. My Sniper has points in all 3 trees and does very well. But that is just the way I play. I HATE HATE HATE pure specs. Takes all the skill out of the class when everyone has the same abilies because you have to go pure. A lot of people that I know and see in PvP of EVERY CLASS use a split spec of some type. In fact true pure builds are rare and generally PvE played only. You never see a pure spec in PvP...limits you way too much.

 

Every sorc I have seen uses the same skill, tech. They all look same to me.

Guess I should roll one coz its a cake walk to BMs.

CL CL CL CL CL win

[Smashbrother]

Why wait for him to sprint away? My AE knockback isn't far.

 

It's far enough that you can get farther than 10 meters from me.

 

Let's say I somehow did force push you, that only knocks you down 2 seconds. Your root lasts 5 seconds. Which still leaves you time to sprint away around a corner. Let's not forget my push is on a 1 min CD, while ur knockback is much shorter.

 

I'm fine if you guys get an entirely new skill that AoE roots, but an AoE root AND knockback in one move is too damn good.

[biowareftw]

Wait, so Juggs taking longer to bring down than a hybrid sorc is a balance issue? Did you not word that correctly? Did you mean to say that hybrid sorcs take longer to kill than a tank Jugg?

 

Jugs without every long cooldown go down fast. Add to that you have non stop uptime on them, because they are melee...

 

You have no uptime on a hybrid specced sorc. You have 2-3 second windows out of 10 seconds. The more sorc stacked the less uptime you have.

 

Yes they can die, yes it takes way too long. Yes I found it damn near impossible to die as hybrid spec in a warzone where it is not a long drawn out one on one with a sent/marauder that I am wasting my time fighting anyways. Much better to CC their rebuke (rendering them useless), attack/shield other people, then focus fire them down in the duration of a stun.

 

When it takes 20-30 seconds to focus fire one down, it takes too long. All other dps specs in this game can go down in seconds and if they pop a defensive cooldown can be CC'd or the dmg just goes right through it (like a scoundrel/ops dodge).

 

When you add in a sorc who actually knows what his heal button looks like and what LOS is? It becomes damn near impossible to die unless you are with a pug and are fighting people on vent.

[TetraCleric]

If you get rooted for 5 seconds on the AoE knockback, then the sorc most likely isn't even trying to kill you because it breaks on damage after 2 seconds. And unless its the beginning of an engagement, then the sorc has DoT's rolling on you. Plus, that root is now on a 20 second CD, and any other stun will put you in full resolve.

[Varicite]

Intresting...my BH is a split spec and does very well. My Sniper has points in all 3 trees and does very well. But that is just the way I play. I HATE HATE HATE pure specs. Takes all the skill out of the class when everyone has the same abilies because you have to go pure. A lot of people that I know and see in PvP of EVERY CLASS use a split spec of some type. In fact true pure builds are rare and generally PvE played only. You never see a pure spec in PvP...limits you way too much.

 

It's even funnier when you consider that he's quoting me, after blatantly telling him that I also play a hybrid spec.

 

In fact, I play 0/23/18 Powertech, which is the exact same point allocation as the hybrid spec he is condemning.

 

If a Sorc has even ONE dot on you, half of the CC he's complaining about in a 1v1 situation becomes useless.

 

If you're stuck in that AoE blind for 8 seconds, the Sorc hasn't attacked you AT ALL. If you have broken TWO shields and manage to be stuck in both of the blinds... you have done 6-7k damage to the Sorc and he still has not attacked you AT ALL, and his main defense is on cd.

 

If you're talking about being rooted for 2 seconds by the knockback, and the snares, that's another story, and not at all difficult to overcome w/ a little foreplanning.

[Datku]

CL CL CL CL CL win

 

Too bad Chain Lightning has a cool down and can't be spammed. Only way is force lightning to proc wrath, wrath to cast CL instant, then Foce Lightning again to proc wrath. If CL still on cooldown cast lightning strike and if you go outside the typical hybrid build and actually have the ability to 30% proc cooldown reset and instant cast CL you can cast it again before your on cool down. CL has like a 15 sec cooldown natural and a 3 second cast time or so unless you get a proc that has a 30% rate. And the ability to reset the cooldown can not occur more than 1 time every 10 seconds and procs off lightning strike which is not often used unless everything else is on cooldown for a punch of dmg. So end of post...you can not spam cast CL like you are thinking.