Marauder best pvp spec - Annihilaton vs. Carnage vs. Rage

[EasymodeX]

I guess the Anni superstars posting here don't run into healers who know they have a cleanse amongst their abilities?

 

You can get around cleanses with Rupture resets, additional debuffs (heal debuff), and causing heal deficits with CC.

 

 

It may have a slightly higher ceiling than Carnage (which is underrated IMO), but having your damage shut down so easily with no response in your arsenal

 

Carnage is shut down just as easily: any casual CC during Gore (which has a flagrant animation/sound effect) = /zzz Carn DPS for 15 seconds.

 

 

defensive roll + cloak of pain = smash is a non-issue

 

Last I checked:

 

1. Force Crush + Scream (+20% arpen + 30% crit damage) will still burn half your HP.

 

2. Obfuscate will completely destroy an Annihilation spec for its duration, ESPECIALLY if you Annihilate into it.

 

3. Rage can joust Annihilation more effectively than Anni can joust Rage.

 

 

Annihilation has pervasive advantages, but Rage is far, far from an auto-loss in 1v1.

[Evixy]

Carnage and Rage are about as squishy. Annihilation is nowhere near as squishy as the other specs.

 

Regarding who plays what spec, I'd say most bad marauders/sents I see play Carnage/Combat actually. Most of the good ones play Anni and some (about 2 or 3) play Rage. However, there is only about 10 or so really good marauders on the server. Even a couple of BMs that are just perfect examples of how getting BM has absolutely NOTHING to do with skills.

[kainsec]

Imo it comes down to playstyle

 

Rage imo is a stupid spec but it does work. Your gimping yourself for not rolling jugg bc juggs do it better with their t1 talent in vengeance tree with their better survival. I have never lost 1v1 against a rage mara even one who outgeared me but the game isn't based on 1v1 its based on team work and AoE burst>>>>>>anything else since it makes the most work for healers but the caveat is they cannot sustained that damage. It might annoy competent healers for a short window but without the ability to focus down those high value targets this spec relies more on teamwork than the others being a spec designed to open a window for the team to drop some targets while healers scramble.

 

Carnage can do some amazing damage when everything is off cd and everything aligns. So yea that leave too much to chance imo. Some ppl swear by it and good for them if it works for them I just know I have never encountered a carnage mara that i personally feared

 

Anni is the solo spec. Best utility through berserk, best survivability, and best single target damage for focusing down important targets. It needs the least support since it has access to some self-healing but only a stupid player tries to run off an be a warzone hero and charge straight into multiple enemies with no support. Anni Mara>>>>>any healer with 2 viable interrupts one with a ridiculous short cd and 2 snares there is no excuse for a healer to ever outlast an Anni mara. They can spend all the gcds they want cleansing bleed bc it doesn't stop annihilate from ripping through them and with ds applying its self passively once its up and rupture refreshing off annihilate you can keep on damaging while they waste gcds.

[Redbeaver]

Annihilation is better.

 

Who gives a crap about AoE and the resulting increase in personal dmg? Are you getting KILLS on the 2nd-3rd targets? Or just knocking their HP down 20-30% with no followup?

 

Dont forget your role as a marauder... single target dps. Nobody would die if everyone just AoE'd, because AoE dmg is easy to heal. And if you are killing people with the AoE, then they're bad and not really worth mentioning.

[Tremont]

Could someone please link an Anni pvp spec? I'm looking to roll one and would like to see how folks are spec'ing.

[lolcthulhu]

Annihilation is better.

 

Who gives a crap about AoE and the resulting increase in personal dmg? Are you getting KILLS on the 2nd-3rd targets? Or just knocking their HP down 20-30% with no followup?

 

Dont forget your role as a marauder... single target dps. Nobody would die if everyone just AoE'd, because AoE dmg is easy to heal. And if you are killing people with the AoE, then they're bad and not really worth mentioning.

 

single target dps isnt bad as rage spec, you probably have just gotten into the habbit of not using slash very often.. so i bet its a L2P issue. They're different play styles and they BOTH work, however rage is better in a team setting since slash is AoE too to some extent. 9 second 5k crits to up to 5 people will make more of a difference in the civil war and voidstar maps then you sitting on 1 person at a time.

Edited March 21, 2012 by lolcthulhu

[FaDedBriLLianCe]

Why do u even write in this damn thread if you didn't watch my video?! If you did so, u would know that I tested all 3 builds.

 

2.) Gimme a proof, that annihilaton hits for 5k.

 

Umm how about the fact that at full Spec it hits for 4158-5187. so that with Ravage for 4.5K with 1.3k for bleeds/ along with 1.2k for normal bleeds, and a force choke to hold their asses still for the bleeds. Yeah Annhilationi is the best overall spec. As long as you're a skilled player anyway, otherwise i'd say carnage just because of CD decreases on High damage attacks, Rage is decent, but most people tend to stand still and not move around. Which makes it not great for PvP, but good for Raids, and stand still fights

[FaDedBriLLianCe]

Could someone please link an Anni pvp spec? I'm looking to roll one and would like to see how folks are spec'ing.

 

With annihilation anything for bleed, and self healing 1st, all the bleed attacks are the real strength of the anni spec, getting about 4 to 5 stacks on someone, and their done

[RJMazz]

Your accent is cool, OP. Where ya from?

[zizzo]

Annhilate can hit for over 5k, done it many times.

 

Been using annhilation since day 1 but started to get a little bored by the spec so i tried carnage.

The burst, movement and the 2 extra cc's is rly amasing. With gore and some trinkets i have had 5.6k crits on the last hit from ravage aswell. Almost a guaranteed crit on force scream everytime is also good, been close to 5 k with scream aswell but still missing some few dmg.

 

It seems that other classes are a bit " oh he has cc now? " when i use my roots. Dont see other maras with carnage on my server so ppl arent used to be hunted by 1 with it. Ofc the survivability lacks with carnage compared to annhilation, but all in all i am doing pretty good atm in wz's. Its a bit easier to get high dmg numbers with annhilation and rage, but with some more practise i think i might go beyond both specs in overall dmg

 

Rage is just smash smash, hate seeing maras using it when you can choose between 2 other great specs. The burst from rage is ofc fun to watch when you pull it of, but imo it gets rly boring after playing for a while.

Edited April 29, 2012 by zizzo

[Rotanartlu]

Imo it comes down to playstyle

 

Rage imo is a stupid spec but it does work. Your gimping yourself for not rolling jugg bc juggs do it better with their t1 talent in vengeance tree with their better survival. I have never lost 1v1 against a rage mara even one who outgeared me but the game isn't based on 1v1 its based on team work and AoE burst>>>>>>anything else since it makes the most work for healers but the caveat is they cannot sustained that damage. It might annoy competent healers for a short window but without the ability to focus down those high value targets this spec relies more on teamwork than the others being a spec designed to open a window for the team to drop some targets while healers scramble.

 

Carnage can do some amazing damage when everything is off cd and everything aligns. So yea that leave too much to chance imo. Some ppl swear by it and good for them if it works for them I just know I have never encountered a carnage mara that i personally feared

 

Anni is the solo spec. Best utility through berserk, best survivability, and best single target damage for focusing down important targets. It needs the least support since it has access to some self-healing but only a stupid player tries to run off an be a warzone hero and charge straight into multiple enemies with no support. Anni Mara>>>>>any healer with 2 viable interrupts one with a ridiculous short cd and 2 snares there is no excuse for a healer to ever outlast an Anni mara. They can spend all the gcds they want cleansing bleed bc it doesn't stop annihilate from ripping through them and with ds applying its self passively once its up and rupture refreshing off annihilate you can keep on damaging while they waste gcds.

 

Don't compare jugg's rage to mar's rage. Not the same especially after the patch. Mars have better survivability as well. As rage i've never lost 1v1 vs an anni mar.

[theChainsaw]

Carnage bores me for some reason . I've been much happier as either Anni or Rage.

[Akfourtys]

eh ive tried rage and carnage for some time. didnt get them at all. leveled at anni and pvped at anni till valor rank 60.. rage is good for aoe, but either i was so bad at it, or its rage starving spec. anni just loads ur rage with its dots.

carnage gave me totally different experience. ye nice predation, nice roots.. but where is that damage people speak about? gore-massacre-scream-ravage? boring.

and the most annoying thing was that nostalgy for close range charge anni has.

no matter how many buttons u need to press, no matter how many cooldowns u have to watch. anni seems lots better, untill some pesky healer washes ur dots away

[islander]

Annihilation is better.

 

Who gives a crap about AoE and the resulting increase in personal dmg? Are you getting KILLS on the 2nd-3rd targets? Or just knocking their HP down 20-30% with no followup?

 

Dont forget your role as a marauder... single target dps. Nobody would die if everyone just AoE'd, because AoE dmg is easy to heal. And if you are killing people with the AoE, then they're bad and not really worth mentioning.

 

but but but I get bigger numbers....and then people think I'm important....if I just aoe people who subsequently get healed!!!

 

/sarcasm

[luciphear]

Could someone please link an Anni pvp spec? I'm looking to roll one and would like to see how folks are spec'ing.

 

this is the one im working towards, not 50 yet but starting to do some decent damage now and as many

states, i almost always take an healer out unless they dont get help =)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMfsZhZG00M.1

[_droider_]

So many have said it: all depends on play style. One person said it best...wish I could find the post to link it:

 

If you can't multitask at a high lvl, Anni is not your best option. You'd probably see better results rolling rage or carnage.

 

I'll admit I'm not ready for Anni yet; lvl 42 mostly through rage, and after a few WZ after spec'n to Anni I still need a lot of practice. Worst part about it is attempting to apply dots, watch dots, dps, twitch move to break los, watch opponents cast bar, and use cooldowns as necessary. This is why Anni marauder is so OP when played at a high level. If it gets "rebalanced" to bring the expert players in-line with everyone else, the other 80% of Maurader players will be nerfed.

 

If I can't break the skill cap, I'm okay with that. (To the tune of Power Rangers) "Go! Go! Mundane Rage spec!"

[aRtFuL]

So many have said it: all depends on play style. One person said it best...wish I could find the post to link it:

 

If you can't multitask at a high lvl, Anni is not your best option. You'd probably see better results rolling rage or carnage.

 

Multitasking is not a problem personally but I roll carnage because with the decrease in healing effectiveness healers are likely to put more emphasis on cleansing, which means it might be safer option to go carnage or rage for organised pvp and rely more on direct damage.

 

Sure you can reapply the dot relatively easily however at the same time everytime you compete on that ground with a cleanser you are also wasting a GCD as well. That is more of my concern.

 

Carnage got a lot of debuffs and snares. They can't be cleansed. Gore is going to drop a focused target fast (because it allows your team to bypass armor on the target). Add that with healing debuff from deadly throw (which also happens to root as well for carnage) it will really make life difficult for the target.

[Seravis]

For me I find each spec has its place in PVP.

 

Annihilation- Easily our best 1v1 and solo queue spec. Against healers that don't use dispels, the single target damage this spec puts out is arguably the highest of any class in the game. The self heals are also AMAZING and give you large amount of sustainability without needing a healbot. It does takes some getting used to playing with the random CD resets, variable CDs on annihilate, and random rage gains on bleeds. However this spec barely even tickles OP/trooper healers that use cleanse.

 

Carnage- I would argue this will be our Rated WZ spec, because annihilation and rage dps can both be neutered by good healer dispels, and carnage has probably the best burst out of all the specs. Carnage also has many more ways to deal with kiting then the other specs, and immobilizes on every other ability. However it is a rather poor 1v1 spec as its not too difficult to avoid our gore combos if you are watching for them. It also doesn't have any self healing so they tend to die alot more then annihilation.

 

Rage-Rage is generally a pretty weak spec overall compared to other two tree, but it can become arguably the most OP class spec in the game under the right conditions. Most notably when healbotted against teams with 4+ melee that stick close together. multiple rage marauders that can consistently land smash on 3-4 people puts out such insane damage even uninterrupted healers can't keep up with it. However against teams that dispel Force crush and interupt force choke, or just spread out, rage marauders damage become quite lacking.

 

Currently I run Annihilation as I don't always have a healbot nor do many healers on my server know where the cleanse button is.

[texoc]

Carnage and Rage are about as squishy. Annihilation is nowhere near as squishy as the other specs.

 

Regarding who plays what spec, I'd say most bad marauders/sents I see play Carnage/Combat actually. Most of the good ones play Anni and some (about 2 or 3) play Rage. However, there is only about 10 or so really good marauders on the server. Even a couple of BMs that are just perfect examples of how getting BM has absolutely NOTHING to do with skills.

 

The "good ones" play Anni because they are actually to BAD!! to make carnage shine!!

Rage < Anni < Carnage (in difficulty)

 

I used to be one of these Anni Maras, and i never touched anything else than Annihilation for longer than 2-3 WZs.

 

But after getting bored and experimenting with Carnage its absolutely clear for me :

 

 

Carnage > Anni+Rage together

since a few days im constantely getting 800-1000dps in every second WZ, numbers ive never seen in Anni or Rage.

 

Dropping 20k hp Assasin tanks in the blink of 2 seconds.

No ramp up time for gigantic burst and the HIGHEST single target dmg within Berserk.

 

When i pop trinkets + Berserk + Gore ... my Massacre crits constantely for 3k-5k (main hand hit) + 1-2k (second hand hit) + 800-2000 (ataru procs) + when im lucky a second ataru proc per strike (another 800-2000dmg), every freakin second. Combat log shows a dps of 6500dmg + in this period.

 

If you are playing with premade = Carnage >>>>>> Annihilation (even 1on1, Predation-Circle-Massacre owns any meele)

[Omophorus]

Or we play Annihilation because if we're focusing on objective-based play, we may not always have a healer hugging our nuts and need some more sturdiness than Carnage provides.

 

Or we play on a server with a heavy bias towards classes with knockbacks, and people smart enough to pop them right after you Gore them. Even if Force Charge is up and you were blooped 10 meters, you still have already lost at least half your Gore window by the time you're on target and able to hit a DPS ability.

 

Carnage is even more neutered by a missed Gore than Annihilation is by a cleansed DOT.

 

I do think it'll be the spec of choice for Rated play due to utility + burst, but even in premade land now, I'd call it a wash at best, and still frustratingly squishy at worst.

[Foxcolt]

The "good ones" play Anni because they are actually to BAD!! to make carnage shine!!

Rage < Anni < Carnage (in difficulty)

 

I used to be one of these Anni Maras, and i never touched anything else than Annihilation for longer than 2-3 WZs.

 

But after getting bored and experimenting with Carnage its absolutely clear for me :

 

 

Carnage > Anni+Rage together

since a few days im constantely getting 800-1000dps in every second WZ, numbers ive never seen in Anni or Rage.

 

Dropping 20k hp Assasin tanks in the blink of 2 seconds.

No ramp up time for gigantic burst and the HIGHEST single target dmg within Berserk.

 

When i pop trinkets + Berserk + Gore ... my Massacre crits constantely for 3k-5k (main hand hit) + 1-2k (second hand hit) + 800-2000 (ataru procs) + when im lucky a second ataru proc per strike (another 800-2000dmg), every freakin second. Combat log shows a dps of 6500dmg + in this period.

 

If you are playing with premade = Carnage >>>>>> Annihilation (even 1on1, Predation-Circle-Massacre owns any meele)

 

1000 dps really? So your doing over 1mil damage per wz?

 

You drop a 20k sin in 2 seconds? So one GCD? SO YOU ONE SHOT 20K HP??? against an assassin that will parry most of your attacks since they are all weapon based in carnage...

 

Massacre crits for 5k? You're spammable massacre's hit for more than Annihilate?? 2k ataru procs? every second? So how did you get passed the "This ability cannot occure more than once every 1.5 seconds" mechanic?

 

This is hands down the most retarded post I've seen all month...

Edited May 8, 2012 by Foxcolt

[aRtFuL]

Carnage is even more neutered by a missed Gore than Annihilation is by a cleansed DOT.

 

While gore is important, it is not THAT important in terms of overall scheme of a Carnage's rotation.

 

Gore helps increase the damage a fair bit, but the majorly of the burst of Carnage was because of crit Scream anyways (when you partner crit Scream right on the last hit of Ravage or crit Scream chaining with vicious throw).

 

Cleansing Anni's DoT is probably a lot worse than cleansing Gore because DoT is actually a significant part of the Anni's main damage whereas Gore is just a setup debuff.

 

Personally I'm not worried about the squishiness. Our predation runs faster and our force camo removes snares. If something is wrong, just run so you can reset the fight. Also, I just try to avoid getting into getting focused unless our team got healers that actually heals.

Edited May 9, 2012 by aRtFuL

[PenoNation]

The "good ones" play Anni because they are actually to BAD!! to make carnage shine!!

Rage < Anni < Carnage (in difficulty)

 

I used to be one of these Anni Maras, and i never touched anything else than Annihilation for longer than 2-3 WZs.

 

But after getting bored and experimenting with Carnage its absolutely clear for me :

 

 

Carnage > Anni+Rage together

since a few days im constantely getting 800-1000dps in every second WZ, numbers ive never seen in Anni or Rage.

 

Dropping 20k hp Assasin tanks in the blink of 2 seconds.

No ramp up time for gigantic burst and the HIGHEST single target dmg within Berserk.

 

When i pop trinkets + Berserk + Gore ... my Massacre crits constantely for 3k-5k (main hand hit) + 1-2k (second hand hit) + 800-2000 (ataru procs) + when im lucky a second ataru proc per strike (another 800-2000dmg), every freakin second. Combat log shows a dps of 6500dmg + in this period.

 

If you are playing with premade = Carnage >>>>>> Annihilation (even 1on1, Predation-Circle-Massacre owns any meele)

I laughed.

[Invictusthetaru]

People keep saying the 100 % armor penetration is a team buff on the target, is this true?

 

When we use it, NOTHING APPEARS OVER OUR ENEMY. NOTHING.

 

WE get the buff over our bar. This makes me think 1 of 2 things:

 

We are the only one's that get the armor debuff on our opponent OR

 

After using Gore, ALL of our attacks on ANY target go through 100 percent of their armor.

 

Does anyone have the proof?

[Zoah]

Grants buff, I've gored tanks on my way to squishies before, the buff is only for yourself, and for any target.